My Adventures with Direct Steer w/ Torque

[Become dust]

also, I'm unable to find the other "game modes/types/whatever you would call it, I'm kinda hopeless when it comes to seeking things on the internet, also IDK what they are actually called rip

[Become dust]

im spamming this thread atm lol, i learned that i can't watch your videos on my ipad sorry!

[passerBy]

I'd say it is all about compromise, depending what you can access, I got a controller and a PC, and that is just about it :/ I bet it would be fun but I can't access the equipment sadly so, DST 1 is lyfe when it comes to GP-bikes none the less im enjoying it

Well, from that you said it looked like you enjoy car sims about as much, and for them getting a wheel is pretty much the only option. Also, I think you mentioned you are still in school? Then the possibilities are just opening for you once you've landed yourself a job. Though a wheel might be still a pretty hefty investment, but out of all things I bought (not that it was a lot of them) so far, this one has probably the biggest fun to cost ratio

Also, I still think DS1 and a FFB-less controller might theoretically give you better precision and allow for more self-righting action on the bike's side. It's never advisable to hold on the handlebars for dear life, and I'm not sure if it's not the case in DS2. Sure, sometimes I can see the virtual bars and the wheel decoupled, but I still wonder for how much self-righting this particular controlling method allows.
I'm still sticking to DS2 though Even if I'll be falling more often with it, the immersion is worth the trouble big time

also, I'm unable to find the other "game modes/types/whatever you would call it, I'm kinda hopeless when it comes to seeking things on the internet, also IDK what they are actually called rip

Not sure what you mean by that, but if you are looking for something in particular, I think you could always ask about it either on the forum or ask me
Apart from direct steering and mode=1, GPB doesn't seem to have many other "undocumented features". At least those that would change the experience significantly.

im spamming this thread atm lol, i learned that i can't watch your videos on my ipad sorry!

Yes, I think we shouldn't derail the thread way too much As for the videos, I tried visiting the page anonymously, and wasn't able to play the private video, so you were right about it. I made them unlisted instead

[Become dust]

so I still struggle with my braking going into corners at a higher speed, but! I am indeed attempting to improve it, I will sooner or later post a video to show you what I'm trying to explain but what I can show you is the bi-product of a "successful" recovery from an excessive breaking and turning when initiating a corner:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=901833496

by that I mean I actually manage to stay on the track but I loose a lot of speed spending time trying to "regain control"

I never thought it was possible to actually "drift" with a superbike in this game much respect to be honest

I still struggle with optimum entry and turning but that is to be expected when you are not very experienced with this game

I will continue with asking you guys for feedback I hope you can help me "get gud"

[Become dust]

I'd say it is all about compromise, depending what you can access, I got a controller and a PC, and that is just about it :/ I bet it would be fun but I can't access the equipment sadly so, DST 1 is lyfe when it comes to GP-bikes none the less im enjoying it

Well, from that you said it looked like you enjoy car sims about as much, and for them getting a wheel is pretty much the only option. Also, I think you mentioned you are still in school? Then the possibilities are just opening for you once you've landed yourself a job. Though a wheel might be still a pretty hefty investment, but out of all things I bought (not that it was a lot of them) so far, this one has probably the biggest fun to cost ratio

Also, I still think DS1 and a FFB-less controller might theoretically give you better precision and allow for more self-righting action on the bike's side. It's never advisable to hold on the handlebars for dear life, and I'm not sure if it's not the case in DS2. Sure, sometimes I can see the virtual bars and the wheel decoupled, but I still wonder for how much self-righting this particular controlling method allows.
I'm still sticking to DS2 though Even if I'll be falling more often with it, the immersion is worth the trouble big time

also, I'm unable to find the other "game modes/types/whatever you would call it, I'm kinda hopeless when it comes to seeking things on the internet, also IDK what they are actually called rip

Not sure what you mean by that, but if you are looking for something in particular, I think you could always ask about it either on the forum or ask me
Apart from direct steering and mode=1, GPB doesn't seem to have many other "undocumented features". At least those that would change the experience significantly.

im spamming this thread atm lol, i learned that i can't watch your videos on my ipad sorry!

Yes, I think we shouldn't derail the thread way too much As for the videos, I tried visiting the page anonymously, and wasn't able to play the private video, so you were right about it. I made them unlisted instead

what i ment was these: GPB / WRS / KRP / MXB what.... are they

[passerBy]

so I still struggle with my braking going into corners at a higher speed, but! I am indeed attempting to improve it, I will sooner or later post a video to show you what I'm trying to explain but what I can show you is the bi-product of a "successful" recovery from an excessive breaking and turning when initiating a corner:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=901833496

by that I mean I actually manage to stay on the track but I loose a lot of speed spending time trying to "regain control"

I never thought it was possible to actually "drift" with a superbike in this game much respect to be honest

I still struggle with optimum entry and turning but that is to be expected when you are not very experienced with this game

I will continue with asking you guys for feedback I hope you can help me "get gud"

Well, I had problems braking from high speeds too, for example. Having a separate analog axis for the rear brake could help, as could some suspension tweaks.
At the moment I can't return to neither GPB, nor MXB for some time, so my experimenting is postponed for now. Will still be around, though.

what i ment was these: GPB / WRS / KRP / MXB what.... are they

Those are all titles by Piboso. He started with GP Bikes first (GPB), then felt like it didn't generate enough income, so he started also working on Kart Racing Pro (KRP) and World Racing Series (WRS, it shares the license with GPB). Later on he also decided to add a motocross sim to his lineup, called MX Bikes. The first video I showed is recorded in MXB. Might not look like much, but believe me, those things are considerably more hard to handle in direct steering modes than the track bikes in GPB. You can see for yourself: just dl the demo and enable either DS1 or DS2 the same way as you would do in GPB.

[Become dust]

so I still struggle with my braking going into corners at a higher speed, but! I am indeed attempting to improve it, I will sooner or later post a video to show you what I'm trying to explain but what I can show you is the bi-product of a "successful" recovery from an excessive breaking and turning when initiating a corner:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=901833496

by that I mean I actually manage to stay on the track but I loose a lot of speed spending time trying to "regain control"

I never thought it was possible to actually "drift" with a superbike in this game much respect to be honest

I still struggle with optimum entry and turning but that is to be expected when you are not very experienced with this game

I will continue with asking you guys for feedback I hope you can help me "get gud"

Well, I had problems braking from high speeds too, for example. Having a separate analog axis for the rear brake could help, as could some suspension tweaks.
At the moment I can't return to neither GPB, nor MXB for some time, so my experimenting is postponed for now. Will still be around, though.

what i ment was these: GPB / WRS / KRP / MXB what.... are they

Those are all titles by Piboso. He started with GP Bikes first (GPB), then felt like it didn't generate enough income, so he started also working on Kart Racing Pro (KRP) and World Racing Series (WRS, it shares the license with GPB). Later on he also decided to add a motocross sim to his lineup, called MX Bikes. The first video I showed is recorded in MXB. Might not look like much, but believe me, those things are considerably more hard to handle in direct steering modes than the track bikes in GPB. You can see for yourself: just dl the demo and enable either DS1 or DS2 the same way as you would do in GPB.

where them downloads at tho

[passerBy]

where them downloads at tho

MX Bikes, World Racing Series, Kart Racing Pro. KRP is also planned to be released on Steam probably this year.

And back to direct steering...
Yesterday I did some DS1 testing on a joystick. Honestly, I think it's just incomparable. Now I'm surprised I could do those laps in this mode in the early betas back in the day. Yes, as a challenge this mode can beat many things out there, but it's not really all that fun in itself. That's why I quit mastering it four years ago, and that's most likely why Klax quit it too.
By the way, I have no idea why Piboso used positive values in his profile.ini example. For me it was closer to -5, -2 to make it work as it should.

DS2, on the other hand, is miles ahead of it. It's enjoyable even in MXB (though you'll have to work a lot in that sim to get it going). Yet it's still extremely rewarding.
Those who tried DS1 on a joypad and quit it right away thinking, "no way in hell!", should really give DS2 a try. Especially, if they happen to have an FFB wheel at their disposal.

[Become dust]

where them downloads at tho

MX Bikes, World Racing Series, Kart Racing Pro. KRP is also planned to be released on Steam probably this year.

And back to direct steering...
Yesterday I did some DS1 testing on a joystick. Honestly, I think it's just incomparable. Now I'm surprised I could do those laps in this mode in the early betas back in the day. Yes, as a challenge this mode can beat many things out there, but it's not really all that fun in itself. That's why I quit mastering it four years ago, and that's most likely why Klax quit it too.
By the way, I have no idea why Piboso used positive values in his profile.ini example. For me it was closer to -5, -2 to make it work as it should.

DS2, on the other hand, is miles ahead of it. It's enjoyable even in MXB (though you'll have to work a lot in that sim to get it going). Yet it's still extremely rewarding.
Those who tried DS1 on a joypad and quit it right away thinking, "no way in hell!", should really give DS2 a try. Especially, if they happen to have an FFB wheel at their disposal.

i guess

[Become dust]

where them downloads at tho

MX Bikes, World Racing Series, Kart Racing Pro. KRP is also planned to be released on Steam probably this year.

And back to direct steering...
Yesterday I did some DS1 testing on a joystick. Honestly, I think it's just incomparable. Now I'm surprised I could do those laps in this mode in the early betas back in the day. Yes, as a challenge this mode can beat many things out there, but it's not really all that fun in itself. That's why I quit mastering it four years ago, and that's most likely why Klax quit it too.
By the way, I have no idea why Piboso used positive values in his profile.ini example. For me it was closer to -5, -2 to make it work as it should.

DS2, on the other hand, is miles ahead of it. It's enjoyable even in MXB (though you'll have to work a lot in that sim to get it going). Yet it's still extremely rewarding.
Those who tried DS1 on a joypad and quit it right away thinking, "no way in hell!", should really give DS2 a try. Especially, if they happen to have an FFB wheel at their disposal.

i guess

can't deny it

[passerBy]

Pondering on what I could do to improve the leaned-over stability, I found out that being lazy can ruin things. Here's one good example.

For GP Bikes I made a separate Logitech profile with the Degrees Of Rotation parameter set to the lowest value of 40. When the issue that forced it to 180 instead hit, I came up with a less than stellar workaround of calibrating my wheel to about the lock I wanted. Ended up with more degrees than 40, as it turned out. Then I figured reinstalling the drivers could help, and it did. I was back to 40 degrees. What I noticed right away is that it became harder to catch the bike.
What I did next is opening the .cfg file of a bike and looked for the actual steering values. Found there a value of 25. Since the Logitech software uses the full span, we need to multiply the number by two. Changed 40 to 50 in the profile, and the result was a much improved steering closer to the limits of the bike's lean angle. Also changed the DS line to directsteer_maxangle=25. All this allowed me to bring the linearity back to 100%.

Still, not everything was smooth enough. One of the problems here is that I can't use the headtracker at the moment, so I had to put the rider's lean back onto the wheel's buttons. So, while fully-leaned and hanging off, the chances of dropping the bike in a turn were still high. Another problem was braking efficiently: the front end would tend to wobble in most situations, forcing me to start the braking earlier and with very little force application.
Something is not right here, obviously. What exactly could be wrong? The suspension settings! When it comes to cars, I rarely fiddle with any settings whatsoever, preferring to rather adapt myself to each car instead. Turns out, it's pretty much a must do thing when it comes to bikes. You HAVE to tweak it to your liking.
So, if the bike seems to be very unstable (especially on a relatively bumpy track or road), it makes sense to try softening the springs and shocks out considerably and start working from there. A little bit of tweaking around can make a world of difference. Now I can put that knee on the tarmac much more often without facing the inevitable.

I wouldn't be surprised if a setup made for direct steering would work even better for the default steering. The autopilot probably has a hard time compensating for bad setups, but to the "commander" it wouldn't be obvious due to the lack of feedback.

[loinen]

Those are all titles by Piboso. He started with GP Bikes first (GPB), then felt like it didn't generate enough income, so he started also working on Kart Racing Pro (KRP) and World Racing Series (WRS, it shares the license with GPB). Later on he also decided to add a motocross sim to his lineup, called MX Bikes. The first video I showed is recorded in MXB. Might not look like much, but believe me, those things are considerably more hard to handle in direct steering modes than the track bikes in GPB. You can see for yourself: just dl the demo and enable either DS1 or DS2 the same way as you would do in GPB.

If we look at news sections on all sites of Piboso, we can see that KRP was released first, then WRS and GPB, MXB was the last. I myself actually saw them in the same sequence as far as I remember. And I'm not sure about income as the main reason to start working on other projects.

BTW DS in any variation is not for pads or car wheels and even not for DD's custom bars. Handling with DS using pads or car wheels is wrong and not realistic at all (realistic here means the amount of efforts applied and feelings brought through riding experience). I think it must be used with proper device, something like full motion simulator, some kind of device which is able to process all inputs/outputs (steering, leaning, braking, throttling, sliding, forces from physics) as if it's a real bike fully matched with virtual bike model and the track as its environment, so it could give a rider adequate feedback about what happens e.g. move itself according to forces and all. With DS and pads\car wheels there is not enough information about what happens, you will never be fast and stable with such configuration, it's a waste of time.

[passerBy]

If we look at news sections on all sites of Piboso, we can see that KRP was released first, then WRS and GPB, MXB was the last. I myself actually saw them in the same sequence as far as I remember. And I'm not sure about income as the main reason to start working on other projects.

I have to admit I'm surprised KRP appears to be 7 years old now, because I started following GPB at around alpha 4 or 5, and I never heard about KRP until much later.
According to a variety of sources like this one, the very first GPB alpha was released in May of 2008.

Well, since KRP came about only 2 years later, probably it wasn't a part of the "not enough cash flow, need to add more projects" plan. WRS, on the other hand, was, and I'm sure the same can be said of MXB, even though MXB seem to come out more thought out and polished than GPB recently.
I wouldn't be saying this if I didn't read it myself. And it was another reason why I quit GP Bikes 4 years ago. It absolutely needed more work and more resources, yet Piboso said that GP Bikes alone wasn't generating enough income and therefore would be worked on less. It was a shock, to be honest, since GP Bikes was and is the only sim of its kind.

BTW DS in any variation is not for pads or car wheels and even not for DD's custom bars. Handling with DS using pads or car wheels is wrong and not realistic at all (realistic here means the amount of efforts applied and feelings brought through riding experience). I think it must be used with proper device, something like full motion simulator, some kind of device which is able to process all inputs/outputs (steering, leaning, braking, throttling, sliding, forces from physics) as if it's a real bike fully matched with virtual bike model and the track as its environment, so it could give a rider adequate feedback about what happens e.g. move itself according to forces and all. With DS and pads\car wheels there is not enough information about what happens, you will never be fast and stable with such configuration, it's a waste of time.

"Even"? DD's bars at the very least need force feedback. As for wheels, have you actually tried doing it the way I suggested? It may be quite a lot of cutting corners with this setup, but at least it's the best virtual motorcycling experience I had. And even if a typical wheel can't provide nearly enough resistance at speed you'd expect of an actual bike, it still feels quite organic. I'm sure belt-driven and especially direct-driven wheels will only improve on the feel.
Yes, there's not quite enough feedback on what is happening, but where have you seen a sim that was giving enough of it? We have to make do with what we have.
Yes, chances are one will never achieve the lap times of the autopilot, but hey, at least you are the one controlling the bike now, not some AI. If I wanted to watch somebody else steering the bike, I'd just go watch MotoGP.
All in all, the default steering is a way much cutting of corners. You voluntarily give up the bike's controls like that. It's just not interesting in the slightest.

If you only care about better lap times, why not Ride 2 then? I heard it's pretty decent for a bike game. As for "realism", what's the point talking about realism if you give up the bike controls in the first place? There are no robotic bikes out there in RL you could control dictating the bike lean angle, you know.

As for being stable, I already said that I achieved quite a lot in that regard already. It's just that Piboso gave very little in terms of improving the direct steering experience, so it's you who has to make the majority of work. And I did. And it worked. And now I'm sharing what I found so far with anybody else. I know there are people even more lazy than I am. So, now you can do much less fiddling to get the best direct steering experience.

DS2+FFB with all the tweaking still remains very much challenging to a beginner. Still, it's miles ahead of DS1 in that regard. It's hard. But where have you seen a sim done right that is easier to handle than the RL prototype? It's harder exactly because you have less feedback and have some control latency introduced. Is it hard to the point of being unmanageable? Absolutely not. Even with DS1 you can learn to ride, and it's not something only reserved for Klax. Yet with DS1 the amount of work you have to do tends to kill most of the enjoyment. DS2 has a greatly superior enjoyment/work ratio while also adding more feedback.

[passerBy]

Speaking of the direct steering mode 2 stability:
http://www.youtube.com/v/pqoUxTKl3fw
I really abused it a lot on the second lap, yet the bike didn't capsize.

Still without the headtracking lean, though. Will do something about it later...

The setup needs more dampening, but I simply wanted to show something sooner than later

[passerBy]

Probably the best bike to start with:

http://www.youtube.com/v/5bX64OMHFlU