We used track rotation at the servers for one week now.
The idea was to have more players concentrated to a smaller amount of servers but it seems to me that it results in less online players at the servers. The track rotation option hasn't been used at all. Most people drive their laps and leave the server but track change only happens after finishing a race. Especially newcomers probabely don't know how to change tracks. The option to use 'Quick Race' settings could help but I'm not sure if everybody likes it.
What's your impression/opinion? Should we continue this way or go back to more single track servers?
Hi Dibu.
I agree with what you said above there.
Is there a way any rider can start a vote to change track, even if they are the only rider on server at the time? To me that would be the ideal solution, as riders could come online knowing that if they want to ride a particular track online then the chance is that they will always be able to find another empty server to do that even if the vote on the current server they are in is outvoted for no change. :)
I made a sort of an effort for some kind of option to choose tracks here...
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=461.0
Please remove the warmup lap and sighting lap. It's a waste of 10 minutes and only makes people messup start position lineup. Then we have to restart the race...and another 10 minutes wasted
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 11, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Please remove the warmup lap and sighting lap. It's a waste of 10 minutes and only makes people messup start position lineup. Then we have to restart the race...and another 10 minutes wasted
My personal opinion... Learn how to use it. That would save everyone a lot of time. Its not that hard, park in the box and dont move untill its time. ;)
Servers which i launch (Cold Turkey or Old School) will have sightninglap and warmuplap on.
Quote from: PeterV on January 11, 2014, 10:46:22 AM
I made a sort of an effort for some kind of option to choose tracks here...
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=461.0
"Déjà vu"!!
They say that that great minds think alike Peter! :P ;D
Quote from: PeterV on January 11, 2014, 10:58:54 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 11, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Please remove the warmup lap and sighting lap. It's a waste of 10 minutes and only makes people messup start position lineup. Then we have to restart the race...and another 10 minutes wasted
My personal opinion... Learn how to use it. That would save everyone a lot of time. Its not that hard, park in the box and dont move untill its time. ;)
Servers which i launch (Cold Turkey or Old School) will have sightninglap and warmuplap on.
I agree with you, Peter. Not knowing how to do something correctly is not an excuse to drop a facility.
I personally feel it adds to the tension and atmosphere of the occasion. ;D
Quote from: PeterV on January 11, 2014, 10:58:54 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 11, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Please remove the warmup lap and sighting lap. It's a waste of 10 minutes and only makes people messup start position lineup. Then we have to restart the race...and another 10 minutes wasted
My personal opinion... Learn how to use it. That would save everyone a lot of time. Its not that hard, park in the box and dont move untill its time. ;)
Servers which i launch (Cold Turkey or Old School) will have sightning lap and warmup lap on.
Couldn't agree more, nice to see you promoting the same policy here Peter! What are warmup lap and sighting lap for irl? --> to warm up tyres, get a feeling for the track and to get into a mind-set for the race. And racing in GPB as a sim is quite challenging, so I like to prepare myself in the same way as irl (dunno if running sightning lap and warmup lap really helps warming tyres in GPB, but it should, it's a sim :); but in order to get into a mind-set for a race it is great)...
Anyone remember the SRC500? We didnt have sighting laps then and it was a mess sometimes... entering a race 1min after qualify with a 180 heart rate isnt a good way to start a race. And also people were more inclined to try to vote for a race re-start over and over when many crashes happened in first corners - my feeling is that now people are more aware that this one race start is the one and only race start (cause nobody wants to wait another 10 mins for next possible race start) and they are more careful in first crowded corners - last race in Cota showed it... not many crashes considering the density of the field.
Like Peter said, the only thing that is demanded here, is people know how the procedure of warm-up and sighting lap works and where to get on the grid (in time! ;) ) the whole week before a race there is always a server for that particular track where people can have small test races over the week and can practice the starting procedure. Imho, if someone wants to do a race it shouldn't be asked too much to understand how this works ;)
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 10:34:01 AM
Is there a way any rider can start a vote to change track, even if they are the only rider on server at the time?
You can vote even if you are alone at the track. '!poll start race' works but it's to complicated to do track changes this way.
It takes much time because you have to wait until you are retired from race and the countdown for the server restart delay is over. Also you don't know which track is next without looking at the forum. That's all not good for the acceptance of casual players.
The only solution is a system like PeterV proposed.
Quote from: PeterV on January 11, 2014, 10:58:54 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 11, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Please remove the warmup lap and sighting lap. It's a waste of 10 minutes and only makes people messup start position lineup. Then we have to restart the race...and another 10 minutes wasted
My personal opinion... Learn how to use it. That would save everyone a lot of time. Its not that hard, park in the box and dont move untill its time. ;)
Servers which i launch (Cold Turkey or Old School) will have sightninglap and warmuplap on.
I generally dont have a problem with it. But with 5 or more players in the race at least one will make an error, maybe even unintentially. Shit happends, guys fall when alligning at the start position or something. This makes sense in real racing where we have spectators who want to see their stars waiving at them and also as a safety messure in case some screw isnt tight or something similar. We dont have bike malfunctions or the audience in the game. An average race lasts about 15 minutes, and we spend minimal od 10 minutes (if everything goes fine) riding around slowly for no reason at all.
I think it's pointless.
I guess it matters on how the racing side of GP bikes is viewed. I look at it as a simulation, not a 'game'. If sighting and warmup are in real racing, then I think they should be here too.
@Dibu, I am mourning the loss of the other hotlap servers! I know the 500 and 125 were not so popular, but 1000 was. I found it interesting to compare bikes and sector times at the same track..
Hotlap and Cold Turkey is enough to keep me busy, track rotation servers not needed in my opinion.
Quote from: PeterV on January 11, 2014, 10:58:54 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 11, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Please remove the warmup lap and sighting lap. It's a waste of 10 minutes and only makes people messup start position lineup. Then we have to restart the race...and another 10 minutes wasted
My personal opinion... Learn how to use it. That would save everyone a lot of time. Its not that hard, park in the box and dont move untill its time. ;)
Servers which i launch (Cold Turkey or Old School) will have sightninglap and warmuplap on.
Only thing I would like to see is no race restarts, that is the single most infuriating thing, when you have gone through all the procedure, sighting and warmup, clutch in, red lights, heart rate up, tense, nose on the screen, (!) fierce grin on the face, sweat pouring from hands, then someone asks for a restart. ARGHHH!
Quote from: dibu on January 11, 2014, 11:58:54 AM
[...]
It takes much time because you have to wait until you are retired from race and the countdown for the server restart delay is over. Also you don't know which track is next without looking at the forum. That's all not good for the acceptance of casual players.
The only solution is a system like PeterV proposed.
I agree 100%, the other solution will not find much acceptance from casual players....
Quote from: PeterV on January 11, 2014, 10:58:54 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 11, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Please remove the warmup lap and sighting lap. It's a waste of 10 minutes and only makes people messup start position lineup. Then we have to restart the race...and another 10 minutes wasted
My personal opinion... Learn how to use it. That would save everyone a lot of time. Its not that hard, park in the box and dont move untill its time. ;)
Servers which i launch (Cold Turkey or Old School) will have sightninglap and warmuplap on.
I'm a fan of the sighting lap and the warm up lap too BUT sometimes I have a jumpstart because of the connection/lag. And this sucks.
@PiBoSo, is it possible to let 'jumpstarters' start from the pit after failing the start? So we don't have to restart the race and do the sighting lap and warm up lap again...
Quote from: nuovaic on January 11, 2014, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: PeterV on January 11, 2014, 10:58:54 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 11, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
Please remove the warmup lap and sighting lap. It's a waste of 10 minutes and only makes people messup start position lineup. Then we have to restart the race...and another 10 minutes wasted
My personal opinion... Learn how to use it. That would save everyone a lot of time. Its not that hard, park in the box and dont move untill its time. ;)
Servers which i launch (Cold Turkey or Old School) will have sightninglap and warmuplap on.
Only thing I would like to see is no race restarts, that is the single most infuriating thing, when you have gone through all the procedure, sighting and warmup, clutch in, red lights, heart rate up, tense, nose on the screen, (!) fierce grin on the face, sweat pouring from hands, then someone asks for a restart. ARGHHH!
The only time I'd agree with a race restart is because someone has had a core.exe before the start and wouldn't be able to make the start otherwise(Core.exe after the start is just bad luck and the race should carry on till end), and it really would not be fair to them to start the race without them knowing it was not their fault that they cannot at least make the start of the race.
To be honest, i have seen a general decrease of players overall this week. Usually these kinds of things happen when a game gets modded, things tend to get divided a bit more and not everyone will always be happy to ride a certain mod or to put in the effort to download stuff to stay up to date. Look at the italian guys like ALEale, oDi & Buggi, all they ride at the moment is their scooter mod, and that`s perfectly understandable & fine.
Imo this is nothing to worry about since people just need to get used a bit to new things like track rotation & server versions. We can`t keep changing everything every week, that will scare people off in the long run. We should just stick to the format we have now so people will get used to it and see how it works out in the long run.
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 03:22:29 PM
To be honest, i have seen a general decrease of players overall this week. Usually these kinds of things happen when a game gets modded, things tend to get divided a bit more and not everyone will always be happy to ride a certain mod or to put in the effort to download stuff to stay up to date. Look at the italian guys like ALEale, oDi & Buggi, all they ride at the moment is their scooter mod, and that`s perfectly understandable & fine.
Imo this is nothing to worry about since people just need to get used a bit to new things like track rotation & server versions. We can`t keep changing everything every week, that will scare people off in the long run. We should just stick to the format we have now so people will get used to it and see how it works out in the long run.
100% true, I got a lot of data mismatches the last 2 weeks because of the new bike updates. I have to look for the MEGA site and download all the bikes again. Is it really necessary to host a lobby with the full bike mod? No. Just host lobbies with 1 or 2 bikes OR make a 'DLC' like MOTOGP 2014 and host a lobby with that mod. There are too much bike updates at the moment...
Quote from: Arvoss on January 11, 2014, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 03:22:29 PM
To be honest, i have seen a general decrease of players overall this week. Usually these kinds of things happen when a game gets modded, things tend to get divided a bit more and not everyone will always be happy to ride a certain mod or to put in the effort to download stuff to stay up to date. Look at the italian guys like ALEale, oDi & Buggi, all they ride at the moment is their scooter mod, and that`s perfectly understandable & fine.
Imo this is nothing to worry about since people just need to get used a bit to new things like track rotation & server versions. We can`t keep changing everything every week, that will scare people off in the long run. We should just stick to the format we have now so people will get used to it and see how it works out in the long run.
100% true, I got a lot of data mismatches the last 2 weeks because of the new bike updates. I have to look for the MEGA site and download all the bikes again. Is it really necessary to host a lobby with the full bike mod? No. Just host lobbies with 1 or 2 bikes OR make a 'DLC' like MOTOGP 2014 and host a lobby with that mod. There are too much bike updates at the moment...
As I understand things now. Jamoz has provided a folder in the MEGA account to allow separate downloads so the community doesn't have to download the whole Multi Bike Mod for each update, but just the bike that has been updated at the time.
Also, I believe that JamoZ is now co-ordinating the updates with dibu so that the Mod Bike online servers will be updated as any Multi Bike Mods are released, to try and avoid any data mismatches on the servers as much as possible.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 03:42:01 PM
Quote from: Arvoss on January 11, 2014, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 03:22:29 PM
To be honest, i have seen a general decrease of players overall this week. Usually these kinds of things happen when a game gets modded, things tend to get divided a bit more and not everyone will always be happy to ride a certain mod or to put in the effort to download stuff to stay up to date. Look at the italian guys like ALEale, oDi & Buggi, all they ride at the moment is their scooter mod, and that`s perfectly understandable & fine.
Imo this is nothing to worry about since people just need to get used a bit to new things like track rotation & server versions. We can`t keep changing everything every week, that will scare people off in the long run. We should just stick to the format we have now so people will get used to it and see how it works out in the long run.
100% true, I got a lot of data mismatches the last 2 weeks because of the new bike updates. I have to look for the MEGA site and download all the bikes again. Is it really necessary to host a lobby with the full bike mod? No. Just host lobbies with 1 or 2 bikes OR make a 'DLC' like MOTOGP 2014 and host a lobby with that mod. There are too much bike updates at the moment...
As I understand things now. Jamoz has provided a folder in the MEGA account to allow separate downloads so the community doesn't have to download the whole Multi Bike Mod for each update, but just the bike that has been updated at the time.
Also, I believe that JamoZ is now co-ordinating the updates with dibu so that the Mod Bike online servers will be updated as any Multi Bike Mods are released, to try and avoid any data mismatches on the servers as much as possible.
I know I can download each bike separately but I don't see the point to allow every bike on 1 track. Scooter, SSP, 1000cc...
It`s just a matter of staying up to date which isn`t that hard. Keep track of the Bike Mod thread, and download any new bikes added simply from the Lite Folder. This week just the R6 was updated, so just grab only the R6. I`m uploading a complete pack at the moment with all the new paints & bike versions included. If you grab this you know you are 100% up to date and you don`t have to worry about versions.
This new pack doesn`t have to be coordinated with Dibu as it`s just a update to the pack with already up to date content. The Lite pack is what`s being updated instantly if a new version is released as these are only small downloads & uploads.
I`m not responsible for any track data mismatches ;)
Quote from: Arvoss on January 11, 2014, 03:47:52 PM
I know I can download each bike separately but I don't see the point to allow every bike on 1 track. Scooter, SSP, 1000cc...
I personally think it's more fun when other bikes are on track all at once... It makes it like a track test day, something I used to attend quite a lot when I was younger. ;D
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 03:22:29 PM
Imo this is nothing to worry about since people just need to get used a bit to new things like track rotation & server versions. We can`t keep changing everything every week, that will scare people off in the long run. We should just stick to the format we have now so people will get used to it and see how it works out in the long run.
Imo it's not a matter of getting used to it. The way track rotation works atm is ok for the Cold Turkey server where Peter is most time online too. For the normal servers it's a pain for the user as long as we aren't able to do a direct track selection.
I supported the change a week ago but now after seeing the disadvantages I've also no problem to change my mind again.
Well, whatever works best. If you think the old way worked better, then go for it...
Quote from: dibu on January 11, 2014, 04:01:35 PM
I supported the change a week ago but now after seeing the disadvantages I've also no problem to change my mind again.
I must admit, I did find it a pain to have to race and then have to wait till the race had finished it's countdown if a change of track was wanted.
I would say that if there is no way to directly change a track by any other means(as I gather there isn't), then I say go back to the way it was. ;)
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 04:13:31 PM
Quote from: dibu on January 11, 2014, 04:01:35 PM
I supported the change a week ago but now after seeing the disadvantages I've also no problem to change my mind again.
I must admit, I did find it a pain to have to race and then have to wait till the race had finished it's countdown if a change of track was wanted.
I would say that if there is no way to directly change a track by any other means(as I gather there isn't), then I say go back to the way it was. ;)
PiBoSo should add 'track' to the poll options. Then we could use track rotation properly.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 04:13:31 PM
Quote from: dibu on January 11, 2014, 04:01:35 PM
I supported the change a week ago but now after seeing the disadvantages I've also no problem to change my mind again.
I must admit, I did find it a pain to have to race and then have to wait till the race had finished it's countdown if a change of track was wanted.
I would say that if there is no way to directly change a track by any other means(as I gather there isn't), then I say go back to the way it was. ;)
If we go back to the old way, i would like to see only servers with ridable tracks. There is no need to host 10 servers with tracks noone ever rides, or that are just unridable.
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 04:19:30 PM
If we go back to the old way, i would like to see only servers with ridable tracks. There is no need to host 10 servers with tracks noone ever rides, or that are just unridable.
Unridable tracks are exactly where I need your help. You know I'm everything but not a talented rider ::) and a track which is fine with a car in WRS might be unridable with a bike. I'll try to keep the number of servers low and if you see a 'bad' track it's no problem to tell me. ;)
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 04:19:30 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 04:13:31 PM
Quote from: dibu on January 11, 2014, 04:01:35 PM
I supported the change a week ago but now after seeing the disadvantages I've also no problem to change my mind again.
I must admit, I did find it a pain to have to race and then have to wait till the race had finished it's countdown if a change of track was wanted.
I would say that if there is no way to directly change a track by any other means(as I gather there isn't), then I say go back to the way it was. ;)
If we go back to the old way, i would like to see only servers with ridable tracks. There is no need to host 10 servers with tracks noone ever rides, or that are just unridable.
I agree with you JamoZ. But I fear(If we take a track like Victoria as the benchmark for rideability) that would mean around 80% of the tracks being deleted. LOL
If I can get hold of the track model files, I would like to upload them to a Mega Database for anyone who would like to sort out those unridable tracks, to do so.
I think half the problem with getting good tracks created is that to make one from scratch is a VERY lot of hard work and takes time, and for people to get hold of the original ripped/converted track 3DSMax files is not easy unless you know someone who has already got them, and that information is not well known or publicised.
There are a lot of talented people in this community(Very lucky to have them!), I guess it's a case of people trying to find the spare time to work on these tracks with work and family responsibilities that take priority, so maybe if these track model files were made available for others to download and give it a try then maybe things would progress at a faster pace? :)
I think a bad track is something that`s different from rider to rider. A track may be perfectly fine if you are 4 seconds off pace, but when you are putting the hammer down and riding on the limit you easily see the flaws in a track.
Example : Alot of people flag the old Barcelona track as unridable, but for me it`s one of the best tracks out there and i have no problems riding it fast. But that`s just me...
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
I think a bad track is something that`s different from rider to rider. A track may be perfectly fine if you are 4 seconds off pace, but when you are putting the hammer down and riding on the limit you easily see the flaws in a track.
Example : Alot of people flag the old Barcelona track as unridable, but for me it`s one of the best tracks out there and i have no problems riding it fast. But that`s just me...
Absolutely agree with you about peoples opinion of what track is bad and not. Personally I feel any track that has any corners that it is like having to ride on egg shells to get around them without falling off(because of crazy bumps) should be classed as a bad track. Bumpy straights, although not ideal by any means, are not too bad as we are all well capable of coping with them even flat out. It's the corner surfaces that need priority for sorting out on most of these tracks we have.
I like to see tracks and bikes finished before release. This beta stuff a bit of a pain
I've disabled track rotating and set all servers open class except scooters. SSP class has a server at Peter's Cold Turkey. I've taken the tracks with top voting from both polls. Hotlaps for GP500 and GP1000 are back too. If something should be changed, my ears are open ;)
Quote from: dibu on January 12, 2014, 08:57:21 AM
I've disabled track rotating and set all servers open class except scooters. SSP class has a server at Peter's Cold Turkey. I've taken the tracks with top voting from both polls. Hotlaps for GP500 and GP1000 are back too. If something should be changed, my ears are open ;)
good way to go I think... thnx dibu!
Quote from: RBp on January 11, 2014, 06:33:17 PM
I like to see tracks and bikes finished before release. This beta stuff a bit of a pain
Releasing in beta is a good thing, simply because it helps the modding community sort out any problems, and also helps to improve the product by user feedback.
It also helps users to learn how to install/implement bikes/tracks and paints as well as learning a lot of other useful information in the process.
Anything and everything is easy once you've learned know how to do it. ;D
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 12, 2014, 11:06:32 AM
Quote from: RBp on January 11, 2014, 06:33:17 PM
I like to see tracks and bikes finished before release. This beta stuff a bit of a pain
It also helps users to learn how to install/implement bikes/tracks and paints as well as learning a lot of other useful information in the process.
Anything and everything is easy once you've learned know how to do it. ;D
Exactly this. New versions of everything are constantly uploaded and I think people just need some time getting used to this as it is new and unlike the former situation where a new beta had to be downloaden once a few months.
Have seen so many people trying to connect but apparently having the wrong versions, as they now know where to look and how to install it, things will get less frustrating for some i guess
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
I think a bad track is something that`s different from rider to rider. A track may be perfectly fine if you are 4 seconds off pace, but when you are putting the hammer down and riding on the limit you easily see the flaws in a track.
Example : Alot of people flag the old Barcelona track as unridable, but for me it`s one of the best tracks out there and i have no problems riding it fast. But that`s just me...
Absolutely agree with you about peoples opinion of what track is bad and not. Personally I feel any track that has any corners that it is like having to ride on egg shells to get around them without falling off(because of crazy bumps) should be classed as a bad track. Bumpy straights, although not ideal by any means, are not too bad as we are all well capable of coping with them even flat out. It's the corner surfaces that need priority for sorting out on most of these tracks we have.
I have to agree with Jamoz here. Barcelona, aragon, magny cours, paul ricard etc. etc. all have corners that are tricky to get around in the beginings. Kept on falling over and did not know how to fix untill some point where I understood how to take them. As in real life you have corners that simply do not allow full lean angles and require some delicate steering to get around.
I think if we change all tracks with "bumpy corners" to smoothen them out, some of the soul is lost of what makes a track special or difficult. Those SaintWest tracks for example have buttersmooth surfaces but do not feel like the real deal to me. Partly of course because they have just been poorly created with regards to the surroundings, but also because they miss the little details and perculiarities in the track surface that make them special.
Quote from: dibu on January 12, 2014, 08:57:21 AM
I've disabled track rotating and set all servers open class except scooters. SSP class has a server at Peter's Cold Turkey. I've taken the tracks with top voting from both polls. Hotlaps for GP500 and GP1000 are back too. If something should be changed, my ears are open ;)
Big thumbs up for 1000 and 500 hotlap back and with ssp at Cold Turkey it has been real fun today.
Thank you Dibu.
Quote from: iVolution on January 12, 2014, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
I think a bad track is something that`s different from rider to rider. A track may be perfectly fine if you are 4 seconds off pace, but when you are putting the hammer down and riding on the limit you easily see the flaws in a track.
Example : Alot of people flag the old Barcelona track as unridable, but for me it`s one of the best tracks out there and i have no problems riding it fast. But that`s just me...
Absolutely agree with you about peoples opinion of what track is bad and not. Personally I feel any track that has any corners that it is like having to ride on egg shells to get around them without falling off(because of crazy bumps) should be classed as a bad track. Bumpy straights, although not ideal by any means, are not too bad as we are all well capable of coping with them even flat out. It's the corner surfaces that need priority for sorting out on most of these tracks we have.
I have to agree with Jamoz here. Barcelona, aragon, magny cours, paul ricard etc. etc. all have corners that are tricky to get around in the beginings. Kept on falling over and did not know how to fix untill some point where I understood how to take them. As in real life you have corners that simply do not allow full lean angles and require some delicate steering to get around.
I think if we change all tracks with "bumpy corners" to smoothen them out, some of the soul is lost of what makes a track special or difficult. Those SaintWest tracks for example have buttersmooth surfaces but do not feel like the real deal to me. Partly of course because they have just been poorly created with regards to the surroundings, but also because they miss the little details and perculiarities in the track surface that make them special.
Exactly my thinking Ivo, indeed a Gp bikes track that is not similar to real life is not really what this sim is all about. Or am I missing something? Any and and all tracks that are doctored to be smoother than reality have way too much of an arcadey feel to me. All real tracks deteriorate over time and bumps become part of reality. However, the 990 in particular has real difficulty in some circumstances that make consistency on bumpy tracks very difficult. The new R6 highlights this well, because it handles the trickier tracks so much better. I would like to see tracks with real life fluctuations, but also bikes with the suspension and adjustability capable of handling them. This, to me, is where this sim still needs a little work.
Quote from: nuovaic on January 12, 2014, 11:59:33 PM
Quote from: iVolution on January 12, 2014, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 11, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 11, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
I think a bad track is something that`s different from rider to rider. A track may be perfectly fine if you are 4 seconds off pace, but when you are putting the hammer down and riding on the limit you easily see the flaws in a track.
Example : Alot of people flag the old Barcelona track as unridable, but for me it`s one of the best tracks out there and i have no problems riding it fast. But that`s just me...
Absolutely agree with you about peoples opinion of what track is bad and not. Personally I feel any track that has any corners that it is like having to ride on egg shells to get around them without falling off(because of crazy bumps) should be classed as a bad track. Bumpy straights, although not ideal by any means, are not too bad as we are all well capable of coping with them even flat out. It's the corner surfaces that need priority for sorting out on most of these tracks we have.
I have to agree with Jamoz here. Barcelona, aragon, magny cours, paul ricard etc. etc. all have corners that are tricky to get around in the beginings. Kept on falling over and did not know how to fix untill some point where I understood how to take them. As in real life you have corners that simply do not allow full lean angles and require some delicate steering to get around.
I think if we change all tracks with "bumpy corners" to smoothen them out, some of the soul is lost of what makes a track special or difficult. Those SaintWest tracks for example have buttersmooth surfaces but do not feel like the real deal to me. Partly of course because they have just been poorly created with regards to the surroundings, but also because they miss the little details and perculiarities in the track surface that make them special.
Exactly my thinking Ivo, indeed a Gp bikes track that is not similar to real life is not really what this sim is all about. Or am I missing something? Any and and all tracks that are doctored to be smoother than reality have way too much of an arcadey feel to me. All real tracks deteriorate over time and bumps become part of reality. However, the 990 in particular has real difficulty in some circumstances that make consistency on bumpy tracks very difficult. The new R6 highlights this well, because it handles the trickier tracks so much better. I would like to see tracks with real life fluctuations, but also bikes with the suspension and adjustability capable of handling them. This, to me, is where this sim still needs a little work.
I agree to a certain extent to what you guys are saying about bumps on a track, but I don't know if it is the bike physics that cannot handle it, as has been indicated, or whether it is just poor modelling on the track authors part? And if we are talking about wanting realism because it's a sim, all of which I would agree with, we can only get such track surface reality if we had access to laser scanned track data, and I'm afraid that will never happen simply due to the costs involved in obtaining that data. So we have to make do for now with estimated bumps and hollows in track surfaces, but until it has been established what is at fault, namely bike physics or track modelling, it is difficult to know how to solve this problem. Personally, the work on the R6 physics and resulting better performance on previously bumpy tracks indicates to me that it is more of a bike physics issue than a track issue, but then again it could be a combination of the two? What do you guys think?
To be honest, laser scanning might not be as expensive and far away for comsumers as most think. I`ve seen people laserscan their streets by simply using a xbox kinect taped to the hood of their car, and using some kind of software to create something usable out of it. I couldn`t find the exact link, but if you google "laserscanning kinect" you`ll see a couple of examples.
Now, who is willing to ride the nordschleife with a kinect taped to his bike :P
Quote from: JamoZ on January 13, 2014, 12:23:30 AM
Now, who is willing to ride the nordschleife with a kinect taped to his bike :P
Pick me, pick me. I will sacrifice myself for the good of this community. ;D
If adequately compensated, ill laserscan any track our planet has to offer :D ;D
Quote from: iVolution on January 13, 2014, 12:32:04 AM
Quote from: JamoZ on January 13, 2014, 12:23:30 AM
Now, who is willing to ride the nordschleife with a kinect taped to his bike :P
Pick me, pick me. I will sacrifice myself for the good of this community. ;D
If adequately compensated, ill laserscan any track our planet has to offer :D ;D
You've got my vote, iVolution! Lol ;D
Just a thought..... An alternative would be to use the SRTM/KLM height elevation data that can be acquired from this site: http://opentopo.sdsc.edu/gridsphere/gridsphere?cid=geonlidarframeportlet&gs_action=raster&opentopoID=OTSRTM.042013.4326.1 (http://opentopo.sdsc.edu/gridsphere/gridsphere?cid=geonlidarframeportlet&gs_action=raster&opentopoID=OTSRTM.042013.4326.1) to create new tracks, or even to implement the data into current track models?
Edit: Depends on the resolution of that height data, I guess, yes?