My Adventures with Direct Steer w/ Torque

[Klax75]

DST Practice, using the Ducati GP10. Did a lap of 9:33.403. My best lap so far, towards the end my momentum slowed slightly. Was losing circulation in my right hand. lol

DST Nordschleife Ducati GP10:
http://www.youtube.com/v/QXbzSmDCD9Q

[Klax75]

After watching some Isle of Man video's and the Road Documentary, I decided to try Ulster GP again with DST.

DST Yamaha M1 Ulster GP Helmet View:
http://www.youtube.com/v/iUpOJDiDxh8

[Klax75]

Also been practicing with MX Bikes with DST. Still haven't done a full lap yet. Trying to find the speed and lean limits I can hit without falling.

[cdx]

Hi Klax, thank you for the inspirational posts!

After reading this thread I decided to give DST a try and ain't it awesome!

Having to push on the outer grip after a too aggressive initial lean-in just to keep the bike off the ground, taking a turn with only initial lean-in and correct throttle control... it's so much more like the real thing. Going from default steering to DST feels almost like going from MotoGP14 to GP Bikes. I'm liking the game even more now, thanks again!

[-aGy-]

is it faster?i try it and didnt like it but maybe i need 1000hours of practice

[HornetMaX]

is it faster?i try it and didnt like it but maybe i need 1000hours of practice

No way. Not even after 1000 days of practice.
Just a feeling, I didn't put the 1000 days in

MaX.

[cdx]

I don't know if it can generally be faster, I'm fairly new to GP Bikes and I was slow with default steering anyway.

I like DST because it seems more representative of actual steering. It just feels more enjoyable. But I'm here for the riding, not racing

Also, unlike Klax, I'm using assists right now - clutch is automatic and I'm not moving the rider at all. I'll get to these once I'm more comfortable with the steering.

[-aGy-]

so its not faster.. why use it! dont get it but hey thats me

[Hawk]

so its not faster.. why use it! dont get it but hey thats me

Hi -aGy-

It's not about being faster or the fastest, it's about doing things as much as possible the real way; I guess it's the difference between hardcore sim control enthusiasts and the more arcade type of control(that most of us use).

It's just wanting to do things the real way(as much as possible) rather than making things easier just to be able to control it easier(for the want of putting it a better way. Lol). 

Hawk.

[-aGy-]

i know what you mean and very good point. realism is the key. waited this game for since 2001sbk and ilove it(i make little physics tweak in it (sbk2001) and uploaded bhmotorsports.com site some years ago)but the site is gone ....see you at the track.. i was little annoyed because could not handle it   (bike)  oon suomesta niin tosi huono lontoo!!

[HornetMaX]

To me, it's very controversial.

For sure Direct steer torque is the input method closer to the real thing. But that does not necessarily mean it's the most appropriate method.

First, if you use DST torque with no force feedback (as Klax), you're off track by a mile (but I understand why he does it).

Second, on a real bike it's not that difficult to start from stand or do a proper turn: the difficulty of DST comes, of course, from the limited interaction we have with a pad or a steering wheel (i.e. by not sitting on the actual bike). True you could say the same without DST, but with DST the problem is amplified.

The more I think about it the more I believe Piboso's standard choice (i.e. stick controlling the target lean angle) is the right way to go. You lose counter-steering, but anyway in usual situations countersteering happens in an almost subconscious way (proof, most of the riders are not even aware they are countersteering at each and every turn they take above silly speeds).

MaX.

[Klax75]

I haven't written in this thread in a while. After months of Beta 6c. I have to say it is the best one yet for DST. A lot of the issues that were with other betas are gone or much less.

Now the rider will hold the handle bars straight when sitting and even when walking the bike it is much easier to do. Once you start using the motor to move it goes back to how DST is. But standing still the handle bars won't flow to one side or the other and won't steer opposite of what your inputs are.

Low speed handling is very much improved. In previous betas, when hitting the front brake the bike would want to sit up quickly while you were loosing speed, then it would want to fall over if it got to slow. Now if you hit the brakes when at a high lean again you can do so, the bike might try to pick up slightly but you can hold your lean angle. Before braking in a turn at a high lean angle could be tricky, if you did it to hard you'd fall instantly. Did it hard but not hard enough the bike would want to stand up. Now you can brake while entering a turn and the front feels very steady. You can still break to hard and then just fall over. But the over all feeling is a lot more confidence since the bike will roughly stay at the lean angle you want while breaking.

In previous betas, if you were riding and do a corn very slow the bike would want to start S turning on you swaying back and forth in a S pattern. In the current beta this is gone, so riding at low speeds is much more enjoyable, and more predictable of how the bike is going to move. At low and high speeds, the bike handles roughly the same. Where in older betas this wasn't the case.

As with previous betas, the violent wobble that comes from the virtual rider. DST doesn't have it to the same degree, some instances it is there but really nothing throttle control can't fix. Where as the virtual rider will try to violent check the steering and cause a wobble.

With the new beta since you can ride on the grass or in the gravel. For DST it is much better, before the slightest little off, on grass or any type of gravel you would instantly loose the balance of the bike and be ejected off it. There is still one issue on some tracks curbs, if I get on them I will instantly get thrown off. But it's only certain track curbs.

Over all this beta as far as DST goes is the best beta yet. Low speed, and braking while at high lean angles is noticeably different. The bike is a lot more steady, and gives you a lot more confidence in what it will do. Falling is more predictable, where I still fall a lot, it's just doesn't feel as random as before. Now usually a split second before I fall I know why it happened.

Lean angles on the bikes are kind of the same as previous betas, so I'm not going to get a 125-250cc bike down as low as I can get the 990.

The lighter bikes are more stable when getting them up to speed, before they wanted to do S turns  when  first building speed. The heavier bikes never really did this, in this beta that problem is very slight now.

DST Kalex KTM Spa Francorchamp:
http://www.youtube.com/v/oVZ54RIEG1k

[SKD]

Just startet playing gp bikes again after about 2 years. I'm still learning the usual way again but I'm very interested about your riding style, klax.
Are you only riding for yourself or do you compete in online races?
If you do so, do you change the steering for this to normal or do you keep DST?

[Become dust]

This setup is alot of fun once you get the hang if it gets really intriguing and seems to never become boring considering how high the learning curve seems to be

[passerBy]

Looks like I missed quite a lot during these years. If only I stayed long enough to encounter this thread, I'd have more motivation to continue on experimenting with the old DST type back then.

Not sure if you are still enjoying GPB the direct steering way, Klax, but this here is some impressive stuff My personal record was going past that pesky upslope right-hander tight hairpin at A7000 once or twice, but since then I was unable to repeat it. Even with the latest beta :/

Hi, MaX, if you still remember me I think you are wrong about the default steering being the proper choice for GPB. To make an incredibly good physics engine only to hamper it with extremely dumbed down controls? There should be better ways than that. Ok, maybe direct steering as it is now is still pretty extreme, but... who said it can't be improved? I'm sure that if done properly, hardly anybody will want to go back to the default steering. Direct Steering is the future. It just needs more thinking on how to improve it. Maybe some artificial balancing act on the side of the rider (after all, our inner ear forces us to do something about impending falling over, so why not make the virtual rider susceptible to that as well?)