Update: Saturday 14th June 2014 @ 00:36 hrs
Hi Guys.
There has been a discussion on the forum recently about the tyre/track grip characteristics, particularly for the 500cc GP 2 stroke bikes; that the 500cc GP 2 stroke bikes should be able to rear wheel power steer around the corners using the power of the engine through good throttle control. I have to say that I totally agree with this issue. I say this because surely if your cornering at max lean and fully open the throttle on one of these 2 stroke beasts the back end should easily spin around on you? At this moment and stage of GP Bike development this does not happen - Maybe someone with some real 500cc 2 stroke race bike experience can actually fill us in with the reality of this subject, but having seen and heard riders talk about it, my personal conclusion is that you have to have good throttle control and feed the throttle through the corner until you get a balance between spinning out and driving that rear wheel around the corners. This is just my reasoning and deduction from what I've heard riders talk about this subject.
Anyway... You guys know I like to test and experiment with GP Bikes, so yes, you guessed it, I have been experimenting with tuning the grip of the Varase 500cc GP 2 stroke bikes tyres to just see if we can get some semblance of being able to control the rear wheel spin while cornering just with throttle control only.
It has been very difficult to get a setting on the tyre grip that is kind of getting there, but I finally think we have a setting that isn't perfect, but is starting to show signs of those grip characteristics people have been discussing here on the forum.
Installation advice/notes: Please make sure you make a backup copy of the default Varase 500 bike your currently using and put it on your desktop or in another folder somewhere safe so that when you have finished with this test and want to go back to the original bike it is then easily copied back into the bikes folder of GP Bikes.
Tyre Grip Characteristics Altered : I've only altered the soft tyre grip characteristics, so make sure your on the soft tyres.
My test conditions: I've only tested it on the "Mallory Park 1978" track so I really don't know if the performance will be greatly different on other circuits. You can download the current(WIP) Pre Release version of the "Mallory Park 1978" Circuit here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=958.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=958.0)
Online use: You cannot use this bike online as this files tyre physics have been altered and you would just get a "Data Mismatch" Error when trying to connect, so this test is a purely offline test.
Here is the download link for the Varase 500cc GP bike with the altered tyre grip characteristics: https://mega.co.nz/#!yIUhXKJY!UL_n9tZxoX11ni15Tq0DG6gTAB_KOgJj8Y5L9Io2Ijk
Give it a try and let me have your feedback here, good or bad, I don't care as all feedback is useful. :P ;D
All I ask is that you try and stick to the subject and not be biased by modern MotoGP bike performance as this is strictly a test to just try and get some performance characteristics of the old classic 500cc GP bikes, in particular, from the 1970'/80's so please don't judge this on what you feel modern MotoGP bikes are like. ;)
Have fun! ;D 8)
Hawk.
The only thing you did was to reduce asphalt 1 dry grip from 0,98 to 0,9595..... ???
All other values stay the same.
You will have more grip on asphalt 2 than on asphalt 1......don´t think that will be the correct way.
in my understanding the grade of the asphalt is in numerical order 1-3 ("best-good-worse"). So it has to be in a line from high to low value....
if you decrease the asphalt1 value you have to decrease or stay at the asphalt 1 value for 2 and 3 accordingly. (That´s how i do tyres ;-))
asphalt -> ASPH (Use this for main track surface) asphalt 2 -> BASPH (Same as ASPH, but slightly less grip) asphalt 3 -> CASPH (Slightly less grip than BASPH)
maybe it´s better this way:
asphalt1 -> dry grip = 0,9595
asphalt2 -> dry grip = 0,9495
asphalt3 -> dry grip = 0,9395
concrete -> dry grip = 0,9695 or 0,9595 (concrete should not be lower than AS1!)
(to stay at the reduction value you used for AS1).
-> only looked at the file, not driven yet, not @home ;)
it will be easier to upload/Download the tyre file only...size of 3kb than the whole bike...size of 24,4 MB!
or to say: open the specific tyre file and change value to: xxx ;)
Just tried it out, renamed it varese_v594_tire, and in the varese_v594_tire.cfg and varese_v594_tire.ini, so it would show as a new bike.
With DST, it didn't feel any different then the normal Varese, with soft tires. Tires handled the same for me.
I tried Malloy '78, and NC_Mugello.
@C21: Yes I understand what your saying, but this is just a quick test and I did state that I have only altered the soft tyre grip and to only use the soft tyres for this test. If this test and any subsequent tests turn out to be successful then that is the time to make sure that all tyre compounds are adjusted accordingly; most tracks as far as I am aware are using TRKASPH(highest grip) for the circuit track surfaces.
Thanks for you detailed feedback C21... Appreciated. ;D
@Klax: Good idea for showing as a new bike, Max told me to do the same thing, but I thought for this initial quick test I would just post the default file format. But yeah... This is something I will do for sure if this takes off for the classic bike race category. :)
I wondered about riding this with DST in helmet view because it's hard enough as it is to find any feedback as to what the bike is doing underneath you in helmet view, and I thought how the hell are you going to be able to really control a rear wheel power slide if you cannot see, or more importantly(in helmet view) feel anything? Must be extremely difficult to ride like you do and learn ways to get that feedback for what the bike is doing.
In Mallory Park, have you tried entering the 1st corner in 3rd gear, wait till your front end starts to turn well in and then open the throttle? Your rear wheel should start to slide round on you, then it's just a case of throttle control to keep it going without allowing the rear wheel to spin out on you.
You can do the same when you enter and exit the ESSES and coming out of Devils Elbow too... Oh and then the exit of the hairpin can be a little tricky also if your too hand-fisted with the throttle. LOL. ;D
Thanks for the feedback Klax.... Appreciated mate. ;)
Quote from: C21 on June 12, 2014, 12:36:07 PM
it will be easier to upload/Download the tyre file only...size of 3kb than the whole bike...size of 24,4 MB!
or to say: open the specific tyre file and change value to: xxx ;)
Thought about that too, but I think a lot of people don't like messing about with file internals. They feel a lot safer if they can just replace a folder for another one and then replace that folder back again to put things back to normal. :)
Hawk.
Hmm, I don't see a lot of improvement.
In my opinion, we simply need more lean angle (or less weight, either way: more corner speed) and the bike would be perfect.
Powerslides like in MotoGP out of every corner will never be possible.
Even in reality, they were only able to do that a few times when they got lucky, but then again, I already have a some replays doing the same thing in GP Bikes with the 500.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 12, 2014, 02:29:47 PM
@C21: Yes I understand what your saying, but this is just a quick test and I did state that I have only altered the soft tyre grip and to only use the soft tyres for this test. If this test and any subsequent tests turn out to be successful then that is the time to make sure that all tyre compounds are adjusted accordingly; most tracks as far as I am aware are using TRKASPH(highest grip) for the circuit track surfaces.
Thanks for you detailed feedback C21... Appreciated. ;D
@Klax: Good idea for showing as a new bike, Max told me to do the same thing, but I thought for this initial quick test I would just post the default file format. But yeah... This is something I will do for sure if this takes off for the classic bike race category. :)
I wondered about riding this with DST in helmet view because it's hard enough as it is to find any feedback as to what the bike is doing underneath you in helmet view, and I thought how the hell are you going to be able to really control a rear wheel power slide if you cannot see, or more importantly(in helmet view) feel anything? Must be extremely difficult to ride like you do and learn ways to get that feedback for what the bike is doing.
In Mallory Park, have you tried entering the 1st corner in 3rd gear, wait till your front end starts to turn well in and then open the throttle? Your rear wheel should start to slide round on you, then it's just a case of throttle control to keep it going without allowing the rear wheel to spin out on you.
You can do the same when you enter and exit the ESSES and coming out of Devils Elbow too... Oh and then the exit of the hairpin can be a little tricky also if your too hand-fisted with the throttle. LOL. ;D
Thanks for the feedback Klax.... Appreciated mate. ;)
In helmet view you can tell if the back slips. Since your rider doesn't move his head left or right, and you get a left or right movement that is different from your turning angle, the back is slipping. You visually see it. I've had the back end come out on me a lot when using DST. When I am throttle out of a corning to help pick up the bike.
Just the new tires you made wasn't really much different then normal.
I'll give it some more laps.
Quote from: Klax75 on June 12, 2014, 06:32:42 PM
Just the new tires you made wasn't really much different then normal.
I'll give it some more laps.
Hi Klax.
The aim isn't to make a big noticeable difference, that would cause the grip of the rear tyre to be lost far too easily and
uncontrollably when riders open the throttle while cornering. It does take a bit of practice to really appreciate the difference, but the difference is there I can assure you. ;)
However, this is just a first stage test. I can and will adjust things a little more but there is such a fine line between being able to control the slide and the rear tyre just breaking away uncontrollably.
My advice? Ride the bike as a 2 stroke and not as the devils own 4 stroke machines. I just love those 4 stroke bikes. Hehe ;D ;D
Hawk.
@hawk
I was Talking about the soft Tyre only ;)
In my opinion the noticable difference should be a decreased lean angle. There is a direct Connection between dry grip factor and lean angle....there Are other values involved too.
Could be veryfied with MaxTM ;)
That's only a theoretical opinion, i can't Ride it practically yet.
But the Feedback of the testers is Proving my Suggestion.
I think you have to change more thAn only the dry grip to get controlable slides. Normally tyres began also sliding When they are worn, don't know if GPB has fully implemented that yet.
You should Feel the Tyre wear After 50-75% Race Distance and at that Point slides should be taken more easily. Don't Rode more than 6-8 consustend laps so i don't know what Happens later ;)
Quote from: C21 on June 12, 2014, 07:52:00 PM
@hawk
I was Talking about the soft Tyre only ;)
In my opinion the noticable difference should be a decreased lean angle. There is a direct Connection between dry grip factor and lean angle....there Are other values involved too.
Could be veryfied with MaxTM ;)
That's only a theoretical opinion, i can't Ride it practically yet.
But the Feedback of the testers is Proving my Suggestion.
I think you have to change more thAn only the dry grip to get controlable slides. Normally tyres began also sliding When they are worn, don't know if GPB has fully implemented that yet.
You should Feel the Tyre wear After 50-75% Race Distance and at that Point slides should be taken more easily. Don't Rode more than 6-8 consustend laps so i don't know what Happens later ;)
Hi C
Do you know what needs to be changed and where I change it(a config file?) to achieve these proper changes to get the results we want for the classic bikes? If someone in the know could point my in the right direction then it would be good to test this alternative solution. ;D
Thanks C ;)
Hawk.
For the wear I don't know as Piboso hasn't explained yet how wear is calculated nor the impact the wear has on the tire model.
I'm working on something to visualize the tire properties (curves for lat force vs slip angle, long force vs slikp etc) from the .tire files: not sure when I'll have something usable, but it should help understanding what we can change.
But once again, I'm not sure we will be able to provide a more controllable slide feeling just modifying the tires.
MaX.
Well I have to say I think this is a worthwhile and an interesting experiment.
I tried out an earlier version that Hawk sent to me last night and I liked it because the rear end of the bike was noticeably more reactive to the throttle. The back end moved around quite nicely when applying a surge of throttle slightly leant over on say the approach to a bend. Also a bit more movement on the exit to bends. For me it did feel more realistic. The throttle felt more connected to the rear wheel. I think it was a step in the right direction.
I tried the latest version Hawk released today and to be honest I didn't feel as much of a difference from the standard physics. Although I only had time to do a few laps.
Speaking as a gpbikes "novice" the problem as I still perceive it is that once you initiate a rear wheel slide the transition into that slide is far too abrupt and sudden. Also the tendency is that it doesn't slide in a gradual and "linear" manner (if linear is the right word ;) - sorry Max!) the bike just spins straight out from under you. In a bit of a mad spinning frenzy.. I can understand that effect exiting low speed bends but I cannot understand this effect to the extent that it is there exiting higher speed bends i.e. medium to high speed bends.
In real life, whilst a rear wheel slide was a challenging thing to control on a 500, I honestly think it would have been more controllable than it is in gpbikes. Which I guess is why there is some interest amongst you guys in looking at this. I think some of you feel the same way. On a careful throttle and on approaching the edge of adhesion (if that's the right word) even on a 500 I think it would begin to slide more gradually. Just a tad mind you. But the transition would be more gradual I think. Although challenging to control.
Also in gpbikes on the 500s I'm not really sure if its properly controllable once it is sliding..the technique was to maintain a controlled slide and not come off the throttle too quickly. Otherwise the rear tyre would grip again too quickly and you ran a real risk of a high-side. I have been watching my father's old videos of the classic 500cc grand prix from the 1980's and 1990's and you do see this effect quite a lot. Even on short powerslides exiting bends..if the rider got it slightly wrong. It would pitch you out of the saddle. Anyway, my problem is that I'm not reliably even getting to that point. Very rarely anyway if I am honest. The tendency for me is that the rear end just spins out from under me..that's the problem facing me. But granted I am very new to the "game".
Just my honest thoughts and I am sorry if I am repeating things I have already said before. On the other thread.
Having said all that I do think that Hawk's experiment represents a step in the right direction.
That's all I can say really. I think the opinion of you much faster guys on gpbikes is worth more than mine because I think you are way, way ahead of me in being able to initiate and hold rear wheel slides in gpbikes generally. Not just on the 500s.
I asked this before but can anyone here point me in the direction of a video where someone is rear wheel steering a 500cc bike round a bend in gpbikes? If people are able to do this, on the power rather than as a combination of power and track surface/track camber etc., I would really like to see it. Out of genuine curiousity. I would love to see how the experts and fast guys do it. Because try as I might I just can't..
grT :)
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 12, 2014, 08:48:03 PM
Speaking as a gpbikes "novice" the problem as I still perceive it is that once you initiate a rear wheel slide the transition into that slide is far too abrupt and sudden. Also the tendency is that it doesn't slide in a gradual and "linear" manner (if linear is the right word ;) - sorry Max!)
I'd prefer "progressive", but it's nitpicking.
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 12, 2014, 08:48:03 PM
In real life, whilst a rear wheel slide was a challenging thing to control on a 500, I honestly think it would have been more controllable than it is in gpbikes.
I guess this is the point where some of us disagree.
But that argument aside, it's funny how at the same time we have some players experimenting with less grip (to get more slide) and some others asking for more lean angle (which is possible essentially with more grip) or less weight, to have more speed in turns.
Also (I think I've already said but I'm not sure I was clear), I don't think that lowering the grip is the way to go (in order to get more controllable slide).
Some more complex change in the tire parameters are likely to be a better chance.
MaX.
Just asking, but do you guys powerslide with an unloaded rear or an overloaded one? Because when I push hard with the 500cc on a fully loaded rear I tend to have some very nice slides.
If I accelerate with an unloaded rear too hard I am immeditely down, so I actually think the standard physics are pretty decent from what I have seen and heard of the 500cc.
I dont think the corner speed is fast enough in gpbikes with the 500cc.. Iv had some slides on the 500 at silverstone but mainly on woodcote corner after hitting a bump in the track.. Slid out nicely but was pure fluke that I stayed upright!
Maybe if corner speed was faster it would give more momentum for a slide to be progressive.. Then again that isnt rear wheel steering.. I think the bikes do already rear wheel steer (evident at victoria last corner) but not to the extent that you can control the spinning.. On the 500.
Its a worthy test but I cant see at the moment with throttle response, engine character, different track surfaces etc how your gonna find a ''sweetspot'' !?
I think the answer would be more grip from the tyre and the ability to go softer with fully working rebound dampening !
I dont think the rear loads up enough for rear wheel steering thats why it just kicks out.. Just a thought!
Quote from: Desteban on June 12, 2014, 09:24:27 PM
Just asking, but do you guys powerslide with an unloaded rear or an overloaded one? Because when I push hard with the 500cc on a fully loaded rear I tend to have some very nice slides.
If I accelerate with an unloaded rear too hard I am immeditely down, so I actually think the standard physics are pretty decent from what I have seen and heard of the 500cc.
I love you :-*
hehe ;)
Another thread from janaucarre ''rpm changing from the lean angle of the bike''
I wonder if this will have an efect too..? ;)
Quote from: Desteban on June 12, 2014, 09:24:27 PM
Just asking, but do you guys powerslide with an unloaded rear or an overloaded one? Because when I push hard with the 500cc on a fully loaded rear I tend to have some very nice slides.
If I accelerate with an unloaded rear too hard I am immeditely down, so I actually think the standard physics are pretty decent from what I have seen and heard of the 500cc.
Hmmm..that makes interesting reading. I do often feel that I am not able to load-up the rear end enough. I'm trying but I can't quite get reliably close enough to that point where I begin to break traction. I don't seem to be cornering quickly enough to put enough force from the engine onto the back wheel. Not in a
progressive enough manner. I think you have a point. I think this ties in to what Bob is talking about also..
I suspect the "block" here, if indeed there is a block (..and I fully understand that some people do not even perceive that there is an issue with 500s) is a combination of different aspects of physics and how they interrelate with each other. Including tyre grip, tyre "dynamics", cornering speed and suspension settings.
But look, I am not really qualified to comment as I am a "newbie". So I had better shut-up now! ;)
I am going to carry on listening..
grT
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on June 12, 2014, 09:27:12 PM
Quote from: Desteban on June 12, 2014, 09:24:27 PM
Just asking, but do you guys powerslide with an unloaded rear or an overloaded one? Because when I push hard with the 500cc on a fully loaded rear I tend to have some very nice slides.
If I accelerate with an unloaded rear too hard I am immeditely down, so I actually think the standard physics are pretty decent from what I have seen and heard of the 500cc.
I love you :-*
I think I love you too.. ;D
Do you have video recording equipment? If you do and you really don't mind doing so could you record a few slides..from the rear chase view if possible?
I would love to see this properly in action. Hope you don't mind me asking..
grT
P.S. I have to say though I did like Hawk's looser rear end that I tried last night..if you'll pardon the expression.. ;D
Hi Guys.... Thanks for all your feedback and comments.....
This is interesting reading all the differing points of view.
In my personal opinion, the 500 2 stroke bikes in GPB should be able to perform a controlled power slide for a well practiced GPB rider, but the reality is that despite the very high class riders of the likes of Desteban, Jamoz, iVolution, Ali, Warlock, Arvoss, Hawk(cough, splutter!! Hehe), too many to mention all of you.( :P), I bet no one can show me a replay of controlled power sliding performed at will on a 500cc GPB Bike without either loading up the rear suspension to a ridiculous amount that wouldn't be used in an actual race, or putting on slippery boots. So something is not quite right somewhere... Hopefully when Piboso has finished the physics model to his final specifications we will see this real capability from the 500 GP bikes, but until that time, I see no reason we shouldn't try and find a work around to try and mimic this kind of performance, but at the same time try and keep it real by not turning GPB into an arcade bike drifting game. Power sliding in a controlled manner should be something, as in real life, that only the very talented and/or well practiced can do well. I hope that will be the same for GPB.
One thing that has occurred to me about getting the bike to power slide - As I understand it, the virtual rider will intervene to try and stop any lack of grip, particularly with the lean angles. If this is true then how can a true power slide ever be properly performed while the virtual rider is allowed to interfere in such a way? Maybe we'll all need to convert to riding totally manual like Klax to be able to perform a controlled power slide?
For those who think the old classic 500 bikes were not capable of performing power slides at will, I can vividly remember when Freddie Spencer joined the Honda team and I watched him racing around Donington Park power sliding around Coppice and exiting onto Starkey's Straight, absolutely beautiful to watch the throttle control that guy had. You could literally see him controlling that slide with his weight shift and throttle hand, so no one can ever say to me that the old 500cc GP bikes just didn't have the ability and power to perform a continually controlled rear wheel power slide, and that was all without any electronic aids or traction control that these MOTOGP guys have today. Those guys were the real hero's as far as I'm concerned. ;D
But anyway... lets continue the testing and see what we can acheive. :D
Thank you for all your comments.... keep them coming guys! ;)
Hawk.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on June 12, 2014, 09:52:44 PM
Another thread from janaucarre ''rpm changing from the lean angle of the bike''
I wonder if this will have an efect too..? ;)
This could have a positive effect!
Will help keep the revs up when cornering!
When you tip into a fast corner on the throttle the revs should increase helping initiate rear wheel steering!
Sounds logical to me anyway lol.
This could potentially transform gpbikes!
At the moment the revs stay the same even when cranked over.. So we are trying to force a slide by adding more throttle..
Just an example of the lean angles of the 1991 bikes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HXqZh5oTK0
Don´t think that GPB needs more lean angle on the tyres (someone spoke about it).....and all in all they did not slide much....
At 1:09 you see a small slide of Doohan.
The younger the bikes (1996 or 2000) the more slides were produced due to the horsepower increase and better throttle control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tqxykKDck0 (Don´t think that this is possible with the 500cc in GPB?)
Best example: (1999 race).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi3DfBMV1e4
Only Mccoy slides much because it´s his way to tame the beast and to wring the heart out of the YZR500 against the NSR and RGV.
Maybe we should not exaggerate the possibility to slide that much....looking into older race videos....only some riders slide and they are doing it not that much....
@Hawk
Sorry could not get you more infos on the tyres, did not test that much with it due to lack of time and other projects.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 12, 2014, 11:30:07 PM
I bet no one can show me a replay of controlled power sliding performed at will on a 500cc GPB Bike without either loading up the rear suspension to a ridiculous amount that wouldn't be used in an actual race, or putting on slippery boots. So something is not quite right somewhere... Hopefully when Piboso has finished the physics model to his final specifications we will see this real capability from the 500 GP bikes, but until that time, I see no reason we shouldn't try and find a work around to try and mimic this kind of performance, but at the same time try and keep it real by not turning GPB into an arcade bike drifting game. Power sliding in a controlled manner should be something, as in real life, that only the very talented and/or well practiced can do well. I hope that will be the same for GPB.
I have to say I personally agree with that. Whether you actually choose to use it or not the ability to powerslide should at least be available in gpbikes on the 500s. Rather like the ability to do power-wheelies. As in real life some players will choose not to use rear wheel steering (i.e. they will avoid powersliding) and will keep their wheels in line and by doing so achieve, for them, faster lap-times. Other players who prefer to square off bends and rear wheel steer a bit would at least have the ability to access a degree of powersliding. Maybe that would assist them a bit in shaving their lap-times? But I agree rear wheel steering, as it was/is in real life, should be a highly challenging skill to develop and use in gpbikes on the 500s. It should not be an easy skill to master and it should catch you out big time if you get it wrong and highside you..
In this way I think it would arguably mimic real life a little more accurately if somehow a small revision to the physics of the 500cc bikes in gpbikes was made. But I do agree that this has to be done very carefully so as not to ruin what we have already.
My own take on this is that on the 500s in gpbikes to initiate a rear wheel slide you have to load up the rear end of the bike to an unrealistic degree. You have to load it up too much in my opinion. Under such a considerable loading it will I think slide but this to me is not like real life. Too much loading is required in gpbikes in my opinion. Also I have noticed that if you hit a bump or a track imperfection in gpbikes whilst exiting a bend with the power hard on and the rear end loaded this will set the rear end off into a slide. Which is fine but with that degree of loading it should arguably be sliding a bit already..
Just my thoughts. I guess at the end of the day this is just an experiment but it is I think worth investigating.
grT :)
Ok, a different question: Can anybody show me a long, consistent powerslide with a 4T in GPB?
I think we are not on the same definition of "consistent powerslide".
The 500 lean angle in GPB is quite accurate, I agree with you after looking at it again but the corner speed is way too low which means that the bike is too heavy.
But, to repeat myself, rear wheel steering is not the top priority at the moment in my opinion. Maybe we are all just not as good at GPB as we think we are. I mean, who of the ones who ride in real-life can do powerslides without traction control?
Quote from: C21 on June 13, 2014, 07:39:10 AM
Just an example of the lean angles of the 1991 bikes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HXqZh5oTK0
Don´t think that GPB needs more lean angle on the tyres (someone spoke about it).....and all in all they did not slide much....
At 1:09 you see a small slide of Doohan.
The younger the bikes (1996 or 2000) the more slides were produced due to the horsepower increase and better throttle control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tqxykKDck0 (Don´t think that this is possible with the 500cc in GPB?)
Best example: (1999 race).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi3DfBMV1e4
Only Mccoy slides much because it´s his way to tame the beast and to wring the heart out of the YZR500 against the NSR and RGV.
Maybe we should not exaggerate the possibility to slide that much....looking into older race videos....only some riders slide and they are doing it not that much....
Good post C21 ! I subscribe to at least 100% of the above.
I'd condense it in: No, the 500cc bikes did not powerslide easily and No the 500cc bikes did not lean much more than what we have in GPB (no need to add a No we don't need to make the 500cc lighter as this has already been proved wrong).
@Hawk: what you're trying to do is interesting anyway. I just don't think it goes in the "more realistic" (or closer to reality) direction the supporters of the thing seem to be claiming.
MaX.
P.S.
Don't get a wrong impression: I love the 500cc era, races were abfab. Doohan is probably the #1 rider I'd mention in terms of personal preference of all the riders I've witnessed (#2 at worst, still have to decide if I liked Casey more than him).
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on June 12, 2014, 11:48:07 PM
This could have a positive effect!
Will help keep the revs up when cornering!
When you tip into a fast corner on the throttle the revs should increase helping initiate rear wheel steering!
Sounds logical to me anyway lol.
Not really: the rpm increase comes from the bike inertia making the smaller radius wheel spin faster, if the bike speed is kept constant.
But the engine braking torque will work against the RPM increase, slowing the bike down.
Once on the angle, it is like having a shorter gear. If I've done the calculation correctly, on the 990 tire @ 60 degrees lean, your tire radius is 20% smaller than at 0 degrees. That seems a lot to me, but note that GPB assumes a circular profile for the tire, hence the numbers can be different in real life.
Quote from: vin97 on June 13, 2014, 10:20:13 AM
The 500 lean angle in GPB is quite accurate, I agree with you after looking at it again but the corner speed is way too low which means that the bike is too heavy.
Even assuming the corner speed is too low, that could come from other factors. The bike weight is right, it has been checked (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1164.msg13831#msg13831 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1164.msg13831#msg13831)).
MaX.
Then it's maybe the weight distribution.
Fact is: They are way too slow in corners.
The 500 on Jerez is a nightmare.
They should at least be as fast as the superbikes through corners.
Quote from: vin97 on June 13, 2014, 11:48:03 AM
Fact is: They are way too slow in corners.
The 500 on Jerez is a nightmare.
They should at least be as fast as the superbikes through corners.
Comparing lap times is not as easy as it seems (track changes, weather conditions etc), but :
1996 500cc pole (Doohan): 1:43.866 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Spanish_motorcycle_Grand_Prix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Spanish_motorcycle_Grand_Prix))
2013 WSS pole: (Lowes) : 1:43.118 (http://www.crash.net/wss/results/197222/1/jerez-qualifying-times-2.html (http://www.crash.net/wss/results/197222/1/jerez-qualifying-times-2.html))
2013 SBK pole (Laverty): 1:40.620 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/laverty-wins-world-superbike-superpole-at-jerez/ (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/laverty-wins-world-superbike-superpole-at-jerez/))
We are talking about almost 20 years back man ... technology and knowledge move forward: for Jerez, plenty of (motoGP) info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_motorcycle_Grand_Prix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_motorcycle_Grand_Prix)
MaX.
I think you make a very valid point Max regarding lap times. Just to bring it slightly more up to date however in 2001 (the last grand prix year with a full grid of 2-strokes) Valentino Rossi's pole position for the 500cc race on the NSR500 Honda was 1:42.739
So I think with improvements in tyre technology and overall motorcycle technology that were available in 2001 the gap to the current World Superbike lap times is narrowed down by just a bit.
I guess with the "varese" physics we are talking about mototorcycle performance figures that were based on the Cagiva grand prix bike from 1992/3 however?
grT
This is becoming the same discussion all over again.
The 500 is shit around corners and it's terrible on small tracks. I want a bike that is fun to ride even if that means that it is a second faster than the real record.
But since you want to stick to the numbers and keep the outdated tyre and frame technology, how about somebody makes a Suter 500 which has up-to-date Moto2 chassis, brakes, suspension, tyres and a 200hp V4 (at 129 kg fully fueled) so that we can have WSS corner speeds (even faster actually) without interferring with the numbers.
To me this is unnecessary, just copy the NSR with higher corner speed and call it Suter 500.
Found quite an interesting article by Dennis Noyes. Thought this might be topical to this discussion.
"IT'S ALL KENNY ROBERTS' FAULT - For a quarter-century, dirt track was training ground for top-level Grand Prix racing."
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/01/10/dirt-track-training-with-kenny-roberts-and-influence-on-top-level-grand-prix-racing/
Extracted quote:
Before Roberts, GP riders generally moved up through the classes, and 250s were the best preparation for the move to 500s. But after Roberts, classic 250cc style, based on corner speed and smoothness, was no longer the way to ride. Japanese team bosses no longer looked for future 500cc riders in the 250cc class. Winning at Springfield or DuQuoin on a four stroke 750cc twin became a better indication of potential success on a 500 than a 250cc title.
Brilliant 250cc riders like Carlos Lavado, Anton Mang, Christian Sarron, Sito Pons, and others were unable to adapt to 500s. Sarron, who had a single 500cc win, was brilliant as long as his tires were fresh. In 1988, he ran up a string of five-consecutive pole positions on a Yamaha 500 and finished fourth overall behind Eddie Lawson, Wayne Gardner, and Wayne Rainey. But Roberts, then in his first year as team owner of the Lucky Strike Yamaha team of Rainey and Kevin Magee, said in an interview that year, "That 250 style can get you on the pole, but when the tires are worn, you are f____d."
The proper 500cc style as practiced and later preached by Roberts, based on rear-wheel steering and sacrificing entry speed to fire the bike out of corners, crossed-up and spinning, was described by the brilliant Spanish engineer, the late Antonio Cobas (designer of the now-ubiquitous twin-spar frame), as "aberrant."
"The 500cc is, in itself, an aberration of motorcycle design...far too much power for the traction available, and so the rider must be constantly on the verge of crashing on corner exit," Cobas told me in an interview about Roberts' style after he has spent a session observing Roberts at the Bugatti left-hander at the Spanish Grand Prix at Jarama in the late '70s.
It became a given during the last 23 years of the 500cc class, from 1978 until Valentino Rossi's first premier-class title in 2001, coinciding with the last year of 500s before the introduction of big-bore MotoGP four-strokes, that the best way to learn to ride a 500 was to race dirt track.
We will never see that again. Traction control is never really going away and, even if it were banned, as in Formula 1, mapping options soften and spread and civilize four-stroke power. When a rider trusts traction control to save him and it, for one reason or another, isn't there, he will, to use the colorful Spanish description of a high-side crash "fly over the ears [of the horse] like a rag doll." We saw that in 2011 at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca when Jorge Lorenzo forgot, after performing a start following second practice, he had to downshift to activate TC on the Yamaha. We also saw it at Indianapolis last year when Ben Spies forgot that the Ducati must be shifted into second to activate TC, and we saw it most dramatically at Aragon when light contact between Marquez and Pedrosa cut the rear-wheel speed-sensor cable, leaving Pedrosa with 260 unfettered, unfiltered horsepower in his throttle hand. Over the ears like a rag doll.
Unquote
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 13, 2014, 12:43:49 PM
I guess with the "varese" physics we are talking about mototorcycle performance figures that were based on the Cagiva grand prix bike from 1992/3 however?
Well, the varese physics is ... for the varese, so yes, cagiva. Not comparable to rossi's
2011 2001 (sorry, typo).
Quote from: vin97 on June 13, 2014, 01:15:27 PM
This is becoming the same discussion all over again.
The 500 is shit around corners and it's terrible on small tracks. I want a bike that is fun to ride even if that means that it is a second faster than the real record.
Ride the 250, it's surely better for small tracks. Small tracks for a 500cc = no good.
Quote from: vin97 on June 13, 2014, 01:15:27 PM
But since you want to stick to the numbers and keep the outdated tyre and frame technology, how about somebody makes a Suter 500 which has up-to-date Moto2 chassis, brakes, suspension, tyres and a 200hp V4 (at 129 kg fully fueled) so that we can have WSS corner speeds (even faster actually) without interferring with the numbers.
To me this is unnecessary, just copy the NSR with higher corner speed and call it Suter 500.
Be my guest and do it, no problem with that.
You can even make it 100Kg for 250hp with 2035's technology tires if that's funnier for you. GPB is moddable, anyone can play with it.
MaX.
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 12, 2014, 08:48:03 PMIn real life, whilst a rear wheel slide was a challenging thing to control on a 500, I honestly think it would have been more controllable than it is in gpbikes.
I don't know. In real life, on a 1992 TZ 250, I've been on the ground before I understood much of what happened with the rear wheel. I suspect it's probably worse on a 500 :P It went like this for me in about 0,2/0,3s: oh, my wheel is sliding, give less throttle, oh fuck I'm on my elbow already, SHRRRRRRR (insert bike sliding on the ground sound here).
To make it worse, I crashed in front of Christian Sarron.
By the way I disagree about what Dennis Noyes said about Christian: he was 3rd in the 500 overall twice so he adapted really good to the 500. He told me he would make the rear slide a lot. And his race endings with worn tyres were really good. His problem (he says it himself) is that he was a very very bad starter, and that he crashed too much. Really too much (17 crashes in 1 year once).
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/16/53/25/86/41576310.jpg)
He's a really great guy. He crashed a TZ750 2 weeks ago in Dijon Prenois, too. Won't change :P
I think the question is this: how easy do we want the bike to be?
Because if you want to make it 100% realistic, I'm telling you right now, none of us should be able to have a controlled slide on a 500. None of us would have the skills for it in real life.
I'm glad the game is easier than real life. Otherwise it would be very frustrating with the lack of feedback.
But I think this debate shouldn't be about "how it was in real life and how to make the game closer to it" because it was impossible for an amateur like us in real life. The debate should be about "how unrealistic and easy do we want it to have a good realism/fun ratio".
Having said all that, I insist that the current difficulty is just fine :P
Quote from: EdouardB on June 13, 2014, 02:25:37 PM
I don't know. In real life, on a 1992 TZ 250, I've been on the ground before I understood much of what happened with the rear wheel. I suspect it's probably worse on a 500 :P It went like this for me in about 0,2/0,3s: oh, my wheel is sliding, give less throttle, oh fuck I'm on my elbow already, SHRRRRRRR (insert bike sliding on the ground sound here).
To make it worse, I crashed in front of Christian Sarron.
By the way I disagree about what Dennis Royes said about Christian: he was 3rd in the 500 overall twice so he adapted really good to the 500. He told me he would make the rear slide a lot. And his race endings with worn tyres were really good. His problem (he says it himself) is that he was a very very bad starter, and that he crashed too much. Really too much (17 crashes in 1 year once).
Lol! That's quite a momento to have of the occasion Edouard! ;D
Christian Sarron is one of my absolute heroes. One of my all time favourites. I have watched pretty much all of his races on the 500 Gauloises Yamaha. Also I have watched videos of many of his 250cc races. Together with Patrick Pons I think they are two of the greatest heroes of European motorcycle racing. Christian really took the fight to the American riders in the '80's. He really made me laugh also..after taking out Freddie Spencer at Assen in the wet in 1985 I just loved the way he shrugged his shoulders cheekily to the camera in guilt..
I think he adapted to the 500s brilliantly as well. But he did only win one 500 grand prix and that was in the pouring rain at Hockenheim in 1985. I suppose that was what Dennis Noyes was alluding to really. And yes Christian did slide the rear because I have him doing it in an old video of my fathers..
So no need to defend Christian Sarron's reputation to me Edouard because I am a huge, huge fan! ;) He was one of the best..
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 13, 2014, 02:13:47 PM
Well, the varese physics is ... for the varese, so yes, cagiva. Not comparable to rossi's 2011 2001 (sorry, typo).
Yes of course. I suppose the point I was trying to make is that if we are talking about the "varese" physics here, which we are, then the gap in lap-times between the 1992 Cagiva and the modern SBK bikes is even bigger. Mick Doohan's pole position time for the 1992 Jerez Grand Prix was 1:45.480. John Kocinski was 40 seconds behind Mick Doohan in the race..
So I guess if you translate this to gpbikes the gap between the respective lap times of the 500cc bikes on the "varese" physics and an SBK bike round Jerez should be quite large..
Apologies Max I didn't phrase my comment very well in my earlier post. :)
grT
Quote from: vin97 on June 13, 2014, 10:20:13 AM
Ok, a different question: Can anybody show me a long, consistent powerslide with a 4T in GPB?
I remember this video from Juju on Beta 1b. There was something in the physics that made the grip transition alot more graduate and more controllable. I miss those days...
http://vimeo.com/63787934 (http://vimeo.com/63787934)
Also, i had a video (forgot to transfer it to my new youtube account :( ) with slow motion shots of corner entry & exit slides using the 990 & 500 in beta 3. I won`t say it`s easy cos it was not, but it`s not impossible. I haven`t tried such with the current beta as i`m not really not that active anymore online tbh. I`ll go for some similar footage this weekend, but not sure if it can be done with the current version.
I don`t give a rats ass about all the technical yap yap in here, the solution to all your crying is simpler then you think, just revert the tire grip transition to what it was before beta 4, it was almost perfect at one point, so it can be done again. And i care even less if it`s not right in the "numbers" It just felt good and i had alot more fun & feeling of realism than i have now on the 500 & 990. I can`t really say i started to enjoy the game more after beta 3...
Well I've never played beta 1, 1b, 2 or 3 but to my mind the fault, if there is a fault ;), so clearly lies with the "grip transition" of the rear tyre.
I am curious is there anywhere I can download gpbikes beta 1, 2 or 3?
Also as a very cheeky and "tongue in cheek" comment which is meant in good humour to Edouard would Christian Sarron or Kevin McCoy be able to rear wheel steer a 500cc bike in gpbikes beta 4? ;)
Joking apart I can see both sides of this argument if I am honest. I do want realism. Absolutely I do. As far as realism is possible in a "simulation".
grT
That is what I am saying, the bike is supposed to be fun to ride and not match the real-world data.
So, where can I get beta3? :D
Anyway, slides like these are still possible.
But, in my opinion these are more "highside-saves". For me, powerslides are what they are doing in MotoGP out of every corner: Smoothely roll on the throttle and let the rear wheel slide from the apex to the exit of the turn without releasing the throttle and smoothely letting the rear wheel kick in again. Most of the time you don't even notice it, until you see the black lines they put on the track.
Quote from: vin97 on June 13, 2014, 05:32:20 PM
That is what I am saying, the bike is supposed to be fun to ride and not match the real-world data.
So, where can I get beta3? :D
Anyway, slides like these are still possible.
But, in my opinion these are more "highside-saves". For me, powerslides are what they are doing in MotoGP out of every corner: Smoothely roll on the throttle and let the rear wheel slide from the apex to the exit of the turn without releasing the throttle and smoothely letting the rear wheel kick in again. Most of the time you don't even notice it, until you see the black lines they put on the track.
100% raw real world data can never work as long as the physics engine isn`t 100% accurate. SMS did the same thing in pCARS with the BAC mono. They factory supplied them with all the data they needed and they put the numbers into the physics engine, which made for very strange behaviour of the car sometimes, so they had to play around with the numbers in able to make it feel convincing. Nothing wrong with that, noone`s physics engine can be perfect...yet.
Quote from: C21 on June 13, 2014, 07:39:10 AM
Maybe we should not exaggerate the possibility to slide that much....looking into older race videos....only some riders slide and they are doing it not that much....
Sorry mate I totally disagree..... I have seen it with my own eyes at race meets back in the 1980's. Only the very talented/gifted riders seemed to be able to do it at will, others talked about it at the time as though these guys were something very special to be able to do such things with a motorcycle. I think the reason we are finding it hard to find videos of these acts is because it was so long ago and only a very few top guys could ever do it at the time. These days everyone can do it because it's not real, it's all done with massive help from the TC and electronics. Looks great, but it is certainly not an indication of true seat of your pants talent to race a motorcycle. The only guys of the modern era that have impressed me with their natural talent have been Rossi and Stoner... Marquez? Well he's got a long way to go before I'll put him in the same league, impressive though he seems. :)
But the point is, these GP riders of that era talk about having to be so careful feeding in that brute power through the corners or you be thrown into space with a high side; so what does that indicate to you? To me it indicates that you cannot just open the throttle in a corner and stay sat in your seat, That makes this 500 Varase we have in GPB sound like an absolute lame duck! And that is being kind! Lol.
Quote from: C21 on June 13, 2014, 07:39:10 AM
@Hawk
Sorry could not get you more infos on the tyres, did not test that much with it due to lack of time and other projects.
No probs mate, but thank you for taking the time to investigate this power slide issue and provide the information you already have.... Appreciate it, C. ;) 8)
HawK.
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 12, 2014, 10:16:35 PM
P.S. I have to say though I did like Hawk's looser rear end that I tried last night..if you'll pardon the expression.. ;D
Hehe ;D ;D
Seems people want a bigger experience.... I'll have to loosen the rear end more later tonight to allow it to slide more easily. :P ;D
Hawk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlnTvfap4fo
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 13, 2014, 05:23:56 PM
Also as a very cheeky and "tongue in cheek" comment which is meant in good humour to Edouard
Don't start this Tracey. I like this kind of comments too much. Just don't.
So, one of the replays I mentioned earlier:
http://www.youtube.com/v/jgUTFpj5ApQ
@Vin97: Thanks for the video evidence post...... Though it's not quite what I'd call a controlled power slide as I noticed that the slide didn't start till the very exit of the corner. Any chance you know of a video were you can see someone initiate the slide from the apex onwards and through the exit? This is what we'd like to see to prove it's possible in GPB. :)
Thanks again for the post. ;D
Hawk.
Hi Guys.
Update: Friday 13th(oooOOO!!) June 2014
Download Link to the Varase Tyre Grip Tuning Test Bike : https://mega.co.nz/#!XA9BnDhR!R-gzBUSO7ABuTwcx_AwqBPKA3iNpNbuNiXE_MN-QWbI (https://mega.co.nz/#!XA9BnDhR!R-gzBUSO7ABuTwcx_AwqBPKA3iNpNbuNiXE_MN-QWbI)
I personally think I've gone overboard with this one, but at least you should see a much looser rear end than before to give you guys who didn't feel much difference a good idea of what we are trying to achieve.
I've also altered the first gear ratio to allow for faster acceleration out of hairpin bends(Be carefull! Hehe)
Give it a try and let me know what you think this time. Thanks guys! ;D
Hawk.
PS: I've updated the download link in the 1st post also.
Okay..I don't want to get into trouble or get badly told off for this and I can understand if people will tell me it is in the past..which it is..but I downloaded and installed beta 3.
I tried the 500 cagiva round Silverstone and after a few laps I got a powerslide..not a very good one but I got one..to me at least the transition from not sliding to sliding feels slightly easier to manage and control. It's still very difficult though. But I liked it.. You don't seem to have to load up the rear wheel as much.
That's all I can say really. I'll try to do some more laps later..
Obviously I am just conducting an experiment nothing more. I hope no one minds..
grT :)
Quote from: EdouardB on June 13, 2014, 06:39:11 PM
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 13, 2014, 05:23:56 PM
Also as a very cheeky and "tongue in cheek" comment which is meant in good humour to Edouard
Don't start this Tracey. I like this kind of comments too much. Just don't.
;)
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 13, 2014, 07:39:51 PM
Okay..I don't want to get into trouble or get badly told off for this and I can understand if people will tell me it is in the past..which it is..but I downloaded and installed beta 3.
I tried the 500 cagiva round Silverstone and after a few laps I got a powerslide..not a very good one but I got one..to me at least the transition from not sliding to sliding feels slightly easier to manage and control. It's still very difficult though. But I liked it.. You don't seem to have to load up the rear wheel as much.
That's all I can say really. I'll try to do some more laps later..
Obviously I am just conducting an experiment nothing more. I hope no one minds..
grT :)
Hi Tracey.
As far as I'm concerned you don't have to ask permission, I think it's great that your also doing some research and tests on this. :D
The results will be interesting, as I didn't actually notice any difference with respect to power sliding from beta 3 to beta 4/b.... Any chance of a replay file or youtube vid showing the result? ;)
Hawk.
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 13, 2014, 07:39:51 PM
Okay..I don't want to get into trouble or get badly told off for this and I can understand if people will tell me it is in the past..which it is..but I downloaded and installed beta 3.
I tried the 500 cagiva round Silverstone and after a few laps I got a powerslide..not a very good one but I got one..to me at least the transition from not sliding to sliding feels slightly easier to manage and control. It's still very difficult though. But I liked it.. You don't seem to have to load up the rear wheel as much.
That's all I can say really. I'll try to do some more laps later..
Obviously I am just conducting an experiment nothing more. I hope no one minds..
grT :)
I know you all think i`m some demented pirate or something, but i know what i feel when i feel it...
Yes, that's why the video says 'powerslide' :D
As I said earlier, in my opinion these are highside-safes.
I just wanted to clarify that we are on the same definition of powerslide :D
So, the seearch continues...
sometimes i powerslide while cornering but it's not intentional, when i want to intentionally slide i choose the cagiva , assen, wet 100% and wet tires
Quote from: Alby46 on June 13, 2014, 08:54:46 PM
sometimes i powerslide while cornering but it's not intentional, when i want to intentionally slide i choose the cagiva , assen, wet 100% and wet tires
+1 :D
slide for me (and for many Others drivers on our forum) is not so hard, and is not a highside-safes, but real poweslide. Before judging phisics of gpbikes a driver should be able to really bring the bikes to their limit, and by that I mean do really fast times, or compete with other fast drivers in a race, you will find out many details of the physics that if you drive "slowly" you can not see. Having said that, a lot depends on the style of each rider. :)
Okay it took me a while to do some small slides, haven't toutched the Varese in a while and this bike isn't really easy to ride.
I was about to go wide and safed it with a little slide
http://youtu.be/5MItdXtV5Ek (http://youtu.be/5MItdXtV5Ek)
Found an old Replay in Paul Ricard doing some small slides at the fast right hander after the back straight, but after seeing this tiny vid took already an eternity to upload I suspended the thought of uploading another vid for now.
The thing is, you are either on full lean angle having some small slides or aim for a bigger slide at less lean angle. Problem is you need exact lean angel and throttle here or you are losing the rear one way or another. Perfect throttle, not enough lean and you either wheelie or have some straight slide. Perfect throttle and too much lean and you of course low side. Too much throttel and no matter the variaton, you hit the dirt. So it boils down to a lot of training. In the time I used the 500cc frequently it was possible to do that, but happened rarely. You don't provoke it, it just happens.
And from what you guys say even back in the day they weren't all sliding around, just the top guys doing it. If you practice in GPBikes you will be able to do it too so I think thats pretty spot on :P
But that is only my opionion...
I will try your bike none the less hawk and see how it does.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 13, 2014, 06:27:48 PM
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 12, 2014, 10:16:35 PM
P.S. I have to say though I did like Hawk's looser rear end that I tried last night..if you'll pardon the expression.. ;D
Hehe ;D ;D
Seems people want a bigger experience.... I'll have to loosen the rear end more later tonight to allow it to slide more easily. :P ;D
Oh come on you two ... get a grip :)
MaX.
Quote from: JamoZ on June 13, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
I don`t give a rats ass about all the technical yap yap in here, the solution to all your crying is simpler then you think, just revert the tire grip transition to what it was before beta 4, it was almost perfect at one point, so it can be done again.
There's no such a thing as "revert the grip transition". Between beta3 and beta4 some changes to the physics (to fix other issues) have taken place.
I don't think you can simply replace a bunch of beta4 params with the beta3 ones and get back to the feeling of beta3.
When we moved from beta3 to beta4, we all agreed that it was an improvement overall (not perfect, but an improvement).
MaX.
Quote from: Desteban on June 13, 2014, 09:36:21 PM
Okay it took me a while to do some small slides, haven't toutched the Varese in a while and this bike isn't really easy to ride.
I was about to go wide and safed it with a little slide
http://www.youtube.com/v/5MItdXtV5Ek&feature=youtu.be
That was really interesting to see Desteban. That is really what I've been talking about. Not a lurid 150ft certifiably insane powerslide but a steering correction using the throttle. A good example. I would love to see more from the same angle with perhaps a slightly longer slide but I understand that it is very time consuming getting things recorded and uploaded to youtube.
That was pretty convincing. The interesting thing for me, however, is the fact that you and JamoZ are both very fast riders and are hitting I think very competitive lap times but you have differing opinions on this issue.
I am going to do some more laps and some experimentation but I am very grateful that you posted that video. Thanks. :)
grT
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 13, 2014, 09:50:34 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on June 13, 2014, 04:27:57 PM
I don`t give a rats ass about all the technical yap yap in here, the solution to all your crying is simpler then you think, just revert the tire grip transition to what it was before beta 4, it was almost perfect at one point, so it can be done again.
There's no such a thing as "revert the grip transition". Between beta3 and beta4 some changes to the physics (to fix other issues) have taken place.
I don't think you can simply replace a bunch of beta4 params with the beta3 ones and get back to the feeling of beta3.
When we moved from beta3 to beta4, we all agreed that it was an improvement overall (not perfect, but an improvement).
MaX.
Why not, just fiddle around with some numbers :P While we`re at it, can i have my Beta 3 brakes back aswell?
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 13, 2014, 07:39:13 PM
I personally think I've gone overboard with this one, but at least you should see a much looser rear end than before to give you guys who didn't feel much difference a good idea of what we are trying to achieve.
Hawk, if you upload the entire bike, change its name to "varese_v594_hawk" or something, it will avoid some people messing it up with the original one.
So I gave it a try: 5 min on the original, 5min on your one, on victoria (dry). More than enough.
As you have drastically lowered the grip of the rear tire, the bike, not surprisingly, leans a lot less and so, not surprisingly, is slower in any corner.
The lean difference is HUGE: I see 3 to 5 degrees on the fast turns in Victoria.
Once again: lowering the grip is not the right way to achieve what you want.
Quote from: JamoZ on June 13, 2014, 09:58:42 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 13, 2014, 09:50:34 PM
I don't think you can simply replace a bunch of beta4 params with the beta3 ones and get back to the feeling of beta3.
Why not, just fiddle around with some numbers :P While we`re at it, can i have my Beta 3 brakes back aswell?
It's not only numbers fiddling, parts of the model have changed.
And yes, you can have your beta3 brakes, slides (and tankslappers) back easily: install beta3 :P
MaX.
P.S.
I have all the betas since beta1b, I'll see if I can upload them somewhere.
You ask, i provide :
http://www.youtube.com/v/3v-K-8c0Msk
http://www.youtube.com/v/dffDkkdLh9c&feature=youtu.be
It`s not impossible, and this was a 5 minute try. Also don`t mind it being recorded with a potato...
@JamoZ
how were the brakes better in beta3? :o
@grT
Well...opinions...
@hawk
I tried you latest version and I don't think thats an improvement. When trying to load the rear it spins, or really takes some time till ready. My guess thats about 4 sec. slower on average than standard and since the grip transition is still very sudden you don't tend to have more slides but actually less. Well less successfull slides and more crashes ;D
I noticed that the best slides I had were all with groove. Thats not just with the Varese but any bike. Did somebody else notice this effect?
Here is a video of me sliding the R6 back in January.
R6 Slide:
http://www.youtube.com/v/ik4I9v7lqy0
Hi Guys.
Well.... I've been experimenting all night with different settings, even using different chassis weights, suspension, gear and tyre pressure settings to try and smooth out that transition between the tyre breaking away and spinning around on you, but I just cannot find any happy medium. So, I've come to the conclusion that at the moment, unless someone can really go deep into the physics and try to sort it out then it's not possible at this time.
The videos: Don't get me wrong guys, I agree they are showing a power slide(no doubt about that) but only little tiny ones and you don't have to be a top rider to do those kind of power slides in GPB as I do them often(and I'm crap!Hehe), especially on Mallory Park 1978 through the ESSES it's quite easy to do a little power slide to turn your bike into the corners, but try to do a constant controlled power slide through a long bend like Spectator corner and for me it's not possible(Maybe you guys can have a go and see if you can do it? ;)), and I've seen no evidence yet of anyone doing a constant controlled power slide in GPB, even just from the apex of a corner through to the exit I haven't seen it. All I've seen are just the little ones like in the videos above. Maybe someone can ( and I'd be happy if someone could) post a video or a replay file to prove us wrong? :P :)
So the test is now finished as far as I'm concerned... If someone else wants to continue with this and keep experimenting(Tracey said she was also experimenting), then I'll follow with interest to see what someone can achieve or discover.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback and comments.... My appreciations to all who took part. Thank you! ;D 8)
Quote from: Klax75 on June 13, 2014, 10:43:09 PM
Here is a video of me sliding the R6 back in January.
R6 Slide:
http://www.youtube.com/v/ik4I9v7lqy0
Hi Klax..... Very nice slide, but again only a little one. And on an R6 too! :o This test/debate is for the 500cc 2 stroke bike and it's characteristics.... Away with your devil 4 stroke machines!! Hehe ;D ;D
Hawk.
( Just joking!! As I'm sure you well know mate. ;) ;D ).
I've done it on the 500cc a lot of times, just they are so quick it's hard to notice. lol When practicing DST, they happen a lot more often.
Quote from: Desteban on June 13, 2014, 10:35:54 PM
@hawk
I tried you latest version and I don't think thats an improvement. When trying to load the rear it spins, or really takes some time till ready. My guess thats about 4 sec. slower on average than standard and since the grip transition is still very sudden you don't tend to have more slides but actually less. Well less successfull slides and more crashes ;D
I noticed that the best slides I had were all with groove. Thats not just with the Varese but any bike. Did somebody else notice this effect?
+1 ;D
I absolutely agree.... This version was really just for those that were saying they could not feel or see any difference. So I provided one that was way too slick so that they could actually feel it.
Sorry about that... I'll post the one I was testing tonight myself for you. ;)
Quote from: Klax75 on June 13, 2014, 11:13:14 PM
I've done it on the 500cc a lot of times, just they are so quick it's hard to notice. lol When practicing DST, they happen a lot more often.
I'm going to have to get into the DST thing.... I think there is a big difference when riding everything manual, including all the steering...... I expect you to teach me well. ;) ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: Desteban on June 13, 2014, 10:35:54 PM
@JamoZ
how were the brakes better in beta3? :o
Braking late is (was) my strongest point in GPB. In beta 3 i was able to outbrake almost anyone on any point of the track, i have lost all the feeling for it with the new braking "simulation" I can`t lay my finger on it, but it changed in a way that i lost all my trust in the brakes.
Update: Saturday 14th June 2014 @ 00:36 hrs
Here is my the final test bike download link: https://mega.co.nz/#!yIUhXKJY!UL_n9tZxoX11ni15Tq0DG6gTAB_KOgJj8Y5L9Io2Ijk (https://mega.co.nz/#!yIUhXKJY!UL_n9tZxoX11ni15Tq0DG6gTAB_KOgJj8Y5L9Io2Ijk)
See what you guys can do with it, and again post your comments here. :)
Hawk.
PS: 1st post download link also updated.
Hi Jamoz.
Thanks for the videos showing your power slides.... Very nice, but again only little small ones..... Have you a big long one to show us? :P ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 13, 2014, 11:48:24 PM
Hi Jamoz.
Have you a big long one to show us? :P ;D
Hawk.
(http://www.troll.me/images/angry-samuel-l-jackson/dafuq-did-you-just-say-thumb.jpg)
Quote from: JamoZ on June 14, 2014, 12:20:15 AM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 13, 2014, 11:48:24 PM
Hi Jamoz.
Have you a big long one to show us? :P ;D
Hawk.
(http://www.troll.me/images/angry-samuel-l-jackson/dafuq-did-you-just-say-thumb.jpg)
Hahaha!! What are you like! Hehe. ;D ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: JamoZ on June 13, 2014, 11:32:05 PM
Quote from: Desteban on June 13, 2014, 10:35:54 PM
@JamoZ
how were the brakes better in beta3? :o
Braking late is (was) my strongest point in GPB. In beta 3 i was able to outbrake almost anyone on any point of the track, i have lost all the feeling for it with the new braking "simulation" I can`t lay my finger on it, but it changed in a way that i lost all my trust in the brakes.
Oh well, you just have to tell us which other thing makes you out-something anyone on any point of the track, so that we can ask for them in beta5 !
Sounds legit ;D
MaX.
Hi Hawk and others. Well I am going to carry on testing the different alternatives that I have, including beta 3 and Hawk's alternative tyre models.
By the way Max all the earlier beta versions of gpbikes are still available for download via this link:
http://www.gp-bikescz.com/en/downloads-71.html
I haven't got much to show anyone if I am honest but using Beta 3 I am getting a few short slides. But I don't think they are of the magnitude that you are interested in seeing Hawk. If by any extreme chance I achieve anything more sexy and exciting I'll let you know and post a video. Don't hold your breath though! ;)
I think it is to the credit of everyone of this forum that a controversial subject such as this with strong opinions on either side of the debate can still discussed in a friendly and relaxed manner. I have to say I am impressed by the conduct and humour of all you guys on the forum. Compared to some forums I have been on in the past this place is a breath of fresh air. Joking apart it really is.
As you guys know my own admittedly novice's opinion is that the transition from not sliding the rear to sliding it is a bit too severe and sudden. That is just my opinion however and nothing more. I fully accept that. I am going to carry on testing and acclimatising myself to the "game" and to the 500s and see if I can begin to emulate what others are achieving.
As a final comment from me on this if any change is to made in the future I strongly suspect that there is not a single aspect of the physics model that if adjusted will provide a solution. I think any meaningful change would only come about as a result of adjusting a number of parameters in the physics model which combined might produce the desired result.
Thank you Hawk for making the effort to conduct this experiment and let us all sample your work in this respect.
Best to all, grT :)
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 14, 2014, 01:09:38 AM
Quote from: JamoZ on June 13, 2014, 11:32:05 PM
Quote from: Desteban on June 13, 2014, 10:35:54 PM
@JamoZ
how were the brakes better in beta3? :o
Braking late is (was) my strongest point in GPB. In beta 3 i was able to outbrake almost anyone on any point of the track, i have lost all the feeling for it with the new braking "simulation" I can`t lay my finger on it, but it changed in a way that i lost all my trust in the brakes.
Oh well, you just have to tell us which other thing makes you out-something anyone on any point of the track, so that we can ask for them in beta5 !
Sounds legit ;D
MaX.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/76/76d3a9bcbc2583375a9119d40108029ce8b40120c122085b9c0f4167defab9ca.jpg)
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 14, 2014, 09:14:03 AM
I think it is to the credit of everyone of this forum that a controversial subject such as this with strong opinions on either side of the debate can still discussed in a friendly and relaxed manner. I have to say I am impressed by the conduct and humour of all you guys on the forum. Compared to some forums I have been on in the past this place is a breath of fresh air. Joking apart it really is.
+1
This is the best forum I've ever known. All the guys here are sensible, friendly, can have a good laugh, and are always willing to help each other.
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 14, 2014, 09:14:03 AM
As a final comment from me on this if any change is to made in the future I strongly suspect that there is not a single aspect of the physics model that if adjusted will provide a solution. I think any meaningful change would only come about as a result of adjusting a number of parameters in the physics model which combined might produce the desired result.
Thank you Hawk for making the effort to conduct this experiment and let us all sample your work in this respect.
Best to all, grT :)
I agree.... I feel that we will only see the polished version of the physics engine that will hopefully allow the full range of a bikes handling when Piboso releases version 1.0 of GBP.
Thanks for your posts & comments Tracey and I'll be taking a keen interest on any experiments you do and post here. ;D 8)
Hawk.
Quote from: JamoZ on June 14, 2014, 09:47:07 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 14, 2014, 01:09:38 AM
Oh well, you just have to tell us which other thing makes you out-something anyone on any point of the track, so that we can ask for them in beta5 !
Sounds legit ;D
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/76/76d3a9bcbc2583375a9119d40108029ce8b40120c122085b9c0f4167defab9ca.jpg)
shakyenglishmeme.com ?
No wait ... was it intentional ? ;D
MaX.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 13, 2014, 11:00:38 PM
The videos: Don't get me wrong guys, I agree they are showing a power slide(no doubt about that) but only little tiny ones and you don't have to be a top rider to do those kind of power slides in GPB as I do them often(and I'm crap!Hehe), especially on Mallory Park 1978 through the ESSES it's quite easy to do a little power slide to turn your bike into the corners, but try to do a constant controlled power slide through a long bend like Spectator corner and for me it's not possible
I couldn't agree more with you.
Quote from: vin97 on June 15, 2014, 12:48:42 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 13, 2014, 11:00:38 PM
The videos: Don't get me wrong guys, I agree they are showing a power slide(no doubt about that) but only little tiny ones and you don't have to be a top rider to do those kind of power slides in GPB as I do them often(and I'm crap!Hehe), especially on Mallory Park 1978 through the ESSES it's quite easy to do a little power slide to turn your bike into the corners, but try to do a constant controlled power slide through a long bend like Spectator corner and for me it's not possible
I couldn't agree more with you.
Thank you, Vin! ;) ;D
Hawk.
These are words from the great man himself who truly knows what a real 500cc GP bike is like to ride.
Listen from 1:22 and Freddie Spencer describes very well what a 500cc GP bike should feel like through a long sweeper when trying to apply more throttle.
As far as I'm concerned the 500 in GP Bikes is not anywhere near this description, and Freddie is talking about 1980's GP 500 bikes here not the more powerful later bikes.
http://www.youtube.com/v/UwxqfkuW8rg
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 15, 2014, 01:14:58 PM
These are words from the great man himself who truly knows what a real 500cc GP bike is like to ride.
Listen from 1:22 and Freddie Spencer describes very well what a 500cc GP bike should feel like through a long sweeper when trying to apply more throttle.
As far as I'm concerned the 500 in GP Bikes is not anywhere near this description, and Freddie is talking about 1980's GP 500 bikes here not the more powerful later bikes.
http://www.youtube.com/v/UwxqfkuW8rg
Hawk.
Exactly! It's not about taking a "run" at it and loading up the rear to a ridiculous degree..it's about just opening the "goddam" throttle! ;) :P
(N.B. tongue in cheek comment on my part)
My father raced a square four 2-stroke RG Suzuki and said exactly the same thing.. squeeze it too much and you'll highside. Squeeze it too little and nothing happens. Squeeze it just right and the back end will start spinning..
That's what he said..
grT ;)
P.S. one thing I notice in gpbikes is that the rear wheel slides in the videos have a tendency to swing back the other way. Sort of over-correct themselves. That's a rear wheel slide in real life that is out of control. A controlled rear wheel power-slide in real life doesn't do that..the rear wheel comes back in line smoothly with proper throttle control. At the end of the power-slide. Otherwise in real life you're not doing it properly..
Quote from: girlracerTracey on June 15, 2014, 04:59:36 PMP.S. one thing I notice in gpbikes is that the rear wheel slides in the videos have a tendency to swing back the other way. Sort of over-correct themselves. That's a rear wheel slide in real life that is out of control. A controlled rear wheel power-slide in real life doesn't do that..the rear wheel comes back in line smoothly with proper throttle control. At the end of the power-slide. Otherwise in real life you're not doing it properly..
Well.. I agree with everybodys point of view to be honest.. I think its pretty good already but theres no doubt it could be better!
Its a good thing that people play around and try different things.. It is a Beta (wip) afterall..
I reckon we should wait for piboso to fix the tyre radious vs rpm first though!
If you disagree.. fine!
But im convinced it will make a difference to the physics.. Especially on cornering grip, throttle response etc..
;)
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on June 15, 2014, 08:10:53 PM
I reckon we should wait for piboso to fix the tyre radious vs rpm first though!
If you disagree.. fine!
But im convinced it will make a difference to the physics.. Especially on cornering grip, throttle response etc..
;)
I think there could be something potentially quite useful in that as well Bob. ;)
Have you been racing for real this weekend by the way?
grT
P.S. I love this forum!
Nope.. Next race is the 28th-29th of this month.. Had a month of no racing! :-\
Raging to go!! New tyres, new suspension, new paintjob!! ;D
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on June 15, 2014, 08:10:53 PM
Well.. I agree with everybodys point of view to be honest.. I think its pretty good already but theres no doubt it could be better!
Its a good thing that people play around and try different things.. It is a Beta (wip) afterall..
I reckon we should wait for piboso to fix the tyre radious vs rpm first though!
If you disagree.. fine!
But im convinced it will make a difference to the physics.. Especially on cornering grip, throttle response etc..
;)
Hi Bob.
Oh not to worry..... I'm sure those of us trying to convince others of certain things that need doing with the 500cc physics are not suggesting that it's the holy grail for GP Bikes and is the one thing that absolutely must be fixed first and foremost, not at all...... These are just fact based suggestions that we just hope Piboso will recognise and take on board for his "To-Do" list. That is all. :)
It will certainly be interesting to see what difference the fix of the Tyre radius/rpm will make to the handling of the bikes, for sure.
But If I personally was to put one thing as an absolute priority for fixing, it would be to stabilise GP Bikes while riding online from the "core.exe" crashes people experience. But that is a difficult one as I believe most "Core.exe's" come from poor circuit/track meshes(99.9% of which come from ripped circuits that are poorly cleaned up after the ripping process). I think people who are blaming GP Bikes for these core.exe's are probably doing Piboso and GP BIkes a huge injustice.
Hawk.
Yeah thats true.. I was well up for a couple of hours online today but I switched it off in the end.. Had 5 core exe's on the redbull ring :-\ shame because its an awesome circuit! When other players join it stutters and sometimes freezes too though?
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 15, 2014, 08:44:19 PM
But If I personally was to put one thing as an absolute priority for fixing, it would be to stabilise GP Bikes while riding online from the "core.exe" crashes people experience. But that is a difficult one as I believe most "Core.exe's" come from poor circuit/track meshes(99.9% of which come from ripped circuits that are poorly cleaned up after the ripping process). I think people who are blaming GP Bikes for these core.exe's are probably doing Piboso and GP BIkes a huge injustice.
I fully agree with your priorities Hawk, but I wouldn't go as far as saying the "core.exe" problem comes from poor tracks.
Sure, a poor track doesn't help, but we know for sure it's not the only explanation. If it was, Piboso would surely had already told us so I hope.
Also, as a general rule, software should never ever crash in an unspecified manner. Admittedly, for stuff like GPB this is hard to enforce, but ...
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 15, 2014, 09:06:48 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 15, 2014, 08:44:19 PM
But If I personally was to put one thing as an absolute priority for fixing, it would be to stabilise GP Bikes while riding online from the "core.exe" crashes people experience. But that is a difficult one as I believe most "Core.exe's" come from poor circuit/track meshes(99.9% of which come from ripped circuits that are poorly cleaned up after the ripping process). I think people who are blaming GP Bikes for these core.exe's are probably doing Piboso and GP BIkes a huge injustice.
I fully agree with your priorities Hawk, but I wouldn't go as far as saying the "core.exe" problem comes from poor tracks.
Sure, a poor track doesn't help, but we know for sure it's not the only explanation. If it was, Piboso would surely had already told us so I hope.
Also, as a general rule, software should never ever crash in an unspecified manner. Admittedly, for stuff like GPB this is hard to enforce, but ...
MaX.
Hi Max.
Well.... After being able to create a core.exe at will when I identify artefacts in track meshes, and it can happen with the smallest of gaps in a mesh that unless you were zoomed right in on it you just wouldn't believe there was a gap there. I personally will be convinced that it is 99.9% track problems and 00.1%
maybe a GP Bikes problem.
To my mind, we should try and sort out what we have the facts for first and then see if the core.exe problem still occurs, as I for one have not seen or heard of any other repeatable or demonstrable evidence that causes a core.exe.
I remember posting about this before for Piboso, and suggesting an error catching routine to allow GP Bikes to continue upon this error, but didn't get any reply. Surely this is possible, isn't it? ;) :)
Hawk.
Well, I've witnessed core.exe in the pits, in the garage (i.e. before going on track), exiting a race, loading a track (especially after having played on another track): these can't come from track issues, at least not from the kind you're talking about (gaps).
When you posted about the detection of gaps I said it was not sure Piboso could do it because he may be using ODE for collision detection. He only replied that he's using his own dedicated model for tire-track collision handling (which makes my comment irrelevant), but didn't really reply to your question.
MaX.
P.S
Talking about issues: in the italian championship we've seen many times (not always) the server skipping the detection of a lap (for no good reason), ending up in messing the lap count for the player (which by the ways confuses GPB and at the end of the race the player with skipped lap sees a white flag when he shouldn't, or two white flags, ot two checker flags).
And there's also the problem of the server sometimes detecting laps very late (like 30 secs after you cross the finish line).
And the very annoying thing of server going mad at race start and some bikes just jump starts with no input from their riders (I've seen this first person: I'm 100% sure I didn't apply any input, and my bike moved forward, along with 2 other bikes in the very same situation).
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 15, 2014, 11:27:03 PM
Well, I've witnessed core.exe in the pits, in the garage (i.e. before going on track), exiting a race, loading a track (especially after having played on another track): these can't come from track issues, at least not from the kind you're talking about (gaps).
It is possible that preparation of the mesh models for rendering and or processing of the mesh model data is done as part of the connection process, or while your in the garage/pits(in the background) so that as soon as you click the "Go to Track" button most of the mesh transformations are complete, as a result if there are any split polygons or artefacts these can cause program crashes even before you enter the track; it is quite a real possibility.
I had an instance working on Monza were the spectator stands were a total mess with split polygons all over the place, GP Bikes would crash each time either before or soon after entering the pits/garage until I cleaned up the spectator stand mesh, then it worked fine(Took me a long time to track down the cause of this problem.). It would be interesting if Piboso could confirm any terrain track mesh model processing that might be going on in the background before the user actually enters the virtual circuit itself.
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 15, 2014, 11:27:03 PM
When you posted about the detection of gaps I said it was not sure Piboso could do it because he may be using ODE for collision detection. He only replied that he's using his own dedicated model for tire-track collision handling (which makes my comment irrelevant), but didn't really reply to your question.
MaX.
Yes, I remember this. But as you say, Piboso never actually reply'd to my question, only reply'd to your comment. He never does reply to me for some reason, never has and I'm not expecting it now either. I can't say it maybe because he has never seen my posts because with the evidence of your post above he obviously has and does, well at least some of them. I think I must unintentionally just rub him up the wrong way. But despite many asking questions he only seems to answer certain people or total newbies having probs with getting started, you just happen to be one of lucky few. Is he French? That would explain a lot(No offence to the French of course. Love your cheese! ;D ). Probably put my foot in my mouth again now. Hehe. ::) :P ;D
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 15, 2014, 11:27:03 PM
P.S
Talking about issues: in the italian championship we've seen many times (not always) the server skipping the detection of a lap (for no good reason), ending up in messing the lap count for the player (which by the ways confuses GPB and at the end of the race the player with skipped lap sees a white flag when he shouldn't, or two white flags, ot two checker flags).
And there's also the problem of the server sometimes detecting laps very late (like 30 secs after you cross the finish line).
And the very annoying thing of server going mad at race start and some bikes just jump starts with no input from their riders (I've seen this first person: I'm 100% sure I didn't apply any input, and my bike moved forward, along with 2 other bikes in the very same situation).
All the above, and I'm certainly no expert in this, this is just me reasoning this out off the top of my head(so to speak), but all the above could be down to poor telecommunications connection(temp not in sync or incomplete data received) in combination with poor network coding to deal with the bad data situation, or one or either of both.
Most jump starts seem to be caused by riders parking their bikes right against or too near the forward white line of their start box; I'm not saying that is definitely the case with your examples as I haven't seen the replays, but in my experience it is always best to park your bike at least half way down your start box to avoid a jump start. Since I started doing this I haven't had a jump start at all; after all, your not going to lose a race because of a couple of feet difference from the start. But especially when you get a lot of riders on the grid there does seem to be an inclination for lag from the server to the client or vice versa.
As I said, I'm no expert at all in network/server coding, so take what I said as a pinch of salt(so to speak). ;)
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 16, 2014, 12:51:18 AM
Yes, I remember this. But as you say, Piboso never actually reply'd to my question, only reply'd to your comment. He never does reply to me for some reason, never has and I'm not expecting it now either. I can't say it maybe because he has never seen my posts because with the evidence of your post above he obviously has and does, well at least some of them. I think I must unintentionally just rub him up the wrong way. But despite many asking questions he only seems to answer certain people or total newbies having probs with getting started, you just happen to be one of lucky few. Is he French? That would explain a lot(No offence to the French of course. Love your cheese! ;D ). Probably put my foot in my mouth again now. Hehe. ::) :P ;D
I've never really understood how he selects what to reply to. I have a large share of totally ignored posts, many simply asking for useful info that would probably take him 10sec to provide.
It seems pretty random, I just live with that.
MaX.
P.S.
Just noticed another weird thing on monzabikes v1.1: sometimes the last split is taken 1.5-2 sec before the correct position, ending up in a very nice 3rd sector and a very bad 4th sector when in fact you just did a lap like many others.
see at 0:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X08zELY-lo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X08zELY-lo)
This is a combination of slightly standing the bike up to give more grip and allow for more throttle.
I have had a read through this thread and am guessing this is what you guys are trying to achieve?
If so I think I have got it... I have only changed the rear suspension settings in the .cfg
Quote from: rodney007 on June 22, 2014, 12:00:31 AM
see at 0:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X08zELY-lo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X08zELY-lo)
This is a combination of slightly standing the bike up to give more grip and allow for more throttle.
I have had a read through this thread and am guessing this is what you guys are trying to achieve?
If so I think I have got it... I have only changed the rear suspension settings in the .cfg
Hi Rodney.
We were discussing trying to achieve a realistic power slide through a corner(though the topic did slip occasionally ;D ); but I cannot see a power slide @ 0:57 in your video above? Is this what you guessed we were talking about here?
BTW... Very nice video mate! ;D 8)
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on June 12, 2014, 11:43:12 AM
Update: Saturday 14th June 2014 @ 00:36 hrs
that the 500cc GP 2 stroke bikes should be able to rear wheel power steer around the corners using the power of the engine through good throttle control.
First post*