Hi guys.
I'm doing a test track surface rebuild on turn #4 of the Dijon circuit.
This turn is giving riders some problems and we don't know if it's the track surface at fault or the physics, so we are just going to see if we can sort this out. Progress will be posted here. Thanks. ;)
Test Track download Link: https://mega.co.nz/#!HBFC2RDK!gNBh0luIi5fp7w0QPxatRUMBwt19D13gKxt5ftG2f9Q (https://mega.co.nz/#!HBFC2RDK!gNBh0luIi5fp7w0QPxatRUMBwt19D13gKxt5ftG2f9Q)
wOOt !
Can't wait to test this !!
MaX.
P.S.
As predicted, you'll end up resurfacing the entire GPB track library, except Victoria. Maybe. :)
Turn #4 Track Surface Before Rebuild
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7422/14065788904_78a7bc5cd8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nqWQZN)
Turn #4 Track Surface After Rebuild
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5088/14065789454_7ce4f4dfef_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nqWRah)
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 29, 2014, 05:01:43 PM
wOOt !
Can't wait to test this !!
MaX.
P.S.
As predicted, you'll end up resurfacing the entire GPB track library, except Victoria. Maybe. :)
Lol.... It shouldn't be long Max... Just got to export it and put it through TrackED. Go have a beer. ;D 8)
nice, that was/is a problamtic corner indeed.
Finished my beer just say when :P
Quote from: PeterV on April 29, 2014, 05:09:20 PM
nice, that was/is a problamtic corner indeed.
Finished my beer just say when :P
Lol.... Go have another couple and then I'll see you on track... You drink "Quarts" in Germany, don't you? Hehe ;D ;D
Anyone know how to move the TrackED centreline straight section marker laterally across the track to help line up the straight line, it's a real pain to have to get the previous corner centreline adjusted to give a whole straight line centre section over a whole straight when you cannot move the marker laterally to line it up?
Great work Hawk_UK lets hope for a positive result.
You can move only the entire centerline or rebuild it(not much time). To move it entirely select the first centerline section and all will move as one object. But why do you need to move centerline? I dont understand.
Sorry guys.... I've got visitors... It'll either be later(early morning) or tomorrow.
Priorities first I'm afraid.... :P ;)
Quote from: Hawk_UK on April 29, 2014, 05:33:53 PM
Anyone know how to move the TrackED centreline straight section marker laterally across the track to help line up the straight line, it's a real pain to have to get the previous corner centreline adjusted to give a whole straight line centre section over a whole straight when you cannot move the marker laterally to line it up?
Not sure I understand exactly what you mean, but it's not very important if two consecutive straight centerline segments that could be perfectly aligned are not.
MaX.
@Hawk_UK I'm not a 3DS Max expert but I wonder what do you exactly do. Do you make a subdivide and then a mesh smooth or what? Could you please share some knowledge? ;)
work is appreciated but the curve has its grace as was.
Nice to try to do better :)
This turn isn't very easy in real life too in fact. So i think gp-bikes physics is amplifiing the not perfect grip on this turn...
Hi Guys.
Seems I'm having trouble exporting this track file this morning.....
I've had this file exporting for nearly an hour now and still not finished..... Has the exporter programme hung? I don't know because there is no error message or progress meter to tell what it's doing?? A progress meter combined with notes to tell you what it's doing when it's doing it would be a big plus if exporting some tracks takes this long Piboso. :)
So a question: How long does this track file usually take to export a .map file with no shadows or super sampling? Anyone know?
This is all I see after 1 hour. No indication of it's progress or whether it's hung or stopped at all. ::)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7325/14068985441_cc86bc23e3_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nreedv)
@Hawk_UK It could take really long, so patience. If you only want to test in game, don't check supersampling shadows in the exporter, it will take excesively long, but relax, it will finish soon or later, depending of your core power.
Quote from: BerScott on April 30, 2014, 08:31:59 AM
@Hawk_UK It could take really long, so patience. If you only want to test in game, don't check super-sampling shadows in the exporter, it will take excessively long, but relax, it will finish soon or later, depending of your core power.
Hi BerScott.
Thanks for that. At least now I know.... Thanks mate. ;)
I just got windows box appear on screen telling me that 3DS Max has had an AppHangB1 event, whatever that is? Below is the crash log entry. Hope it will be helpful to Piboso?
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
Application Name: 3dsmax.exe
Application Version: 12.0.0.106
Application Timestamp: 49b98f6f
Hang Signature: d125
Hang Type: 256
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 2057
Additional Hang Signature 1: d125a02e135597f63b295e86355f133b
Additional Hang Signature 2: db86
Additional Hang Signature 3: db863679704758770145b4ab59a86bf2
Additional Hang Signature 4: d125
Additional Hang Signature 5: d125a02e135597f63b295e86355f133b
Additional Hang Signature 6: db86
Additional Hang Signature 7: db863679704758770145b4ab59a86bf2
How soul destroying is that, after over an hour now and it does this... Phuufff!!! >:( :( ::)
@Hawk_UK As I've readed that was caused by a Core/RAM limitations. So I can only suggest to try minimizing resources. Close all apps like chrome or skype which take lot of resources and try again. Just in cause try performing an anti-malware search. Also I strongly recommend to use Windows 7, but judging by your appcrash error seems that you've already it installed.
OMG!!! This is going to be a VERY strange day indeed!!. Hehe ;D ;D 8)
You won't believe this, but I'd left Max running the exporter after the supposed crash while I posted my entry above, and then when I looked at it again afterwards this was what I saw:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5466/13885692840_e2dfd88d82_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/na2NHf)
But Krieky!! Over ONE HOUR!!! for creating a .map file and that's without checking the boxes for super sampling or shadow mapping to be included!!!
I think I'd better leave the final full export, after and if these tests are successful, to an overnight session, as this looks like that could well take at least a couple of hours or more with all the exporter settings set on??
Anyway.... I'M HAPPY NOW!! ;D ;D
It's successfully exported the .map file..... Now for exporting the .trp file... Hmm, wonder how long that will take? It's usually quicker than the .map file, but with this track file I'm not at all confident. LOL
I told you! My last project did take about 408mb just for the *.map file, but I've optimized it to 300mb and I left it packing for a entirely night. The .TRP will take not so long and will not force the hardware.
Could you please answer to my question in my first post (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1034.msg11823#msg11823)?
Quote from: BerScott on April 30, 2014, 08:52:14 AM
@Hawk_UK As I've readed that was caused by a Core/RAM limitations. So I can only suggest to try minimizing resources. Close all apps like chrome or skype which take lot of resources and try again. Just in cause try performing an anti-malware search. Also I strongly recommend to use Windows 7, but judging by your appcrash error seems that you've already it installed.
Thank you for telling me what the AppHang problem is: I will certainly take your advice and shut down any superfluous applications to give Max and the exporter more resources as I can in future. ;D
As you realised, I already have Windows 7, 64bit Ultimate running as my OS. :) ;)
Quote from: BerScott on April 30, 2014, 08:56:53 AM
I told you! My last project did take about 408mb just for the *.map file, but I've optimized it to 300mb and I left it packing for a entirely night. The .TRP will take not so long and will not force the hardware.
Could you please answer to my question in my first post (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1034.msg11823#msg11823)?
Hi BerScott .... Sorry for the delay in answering your 1st post: Here's a quick overview of what I do. I posted this in my "WIP Mallory Park Track Surface Rebuild" thread. :)
I don't smooth or subdivide at all.
I have observed that when you smooth a section of track surface it will do the job up to a point, but it still leaves very tiny ridges in the surface(Probably won't notice unless you look in perspective view(at the correct angle) when modelling).
I only use Maya 2011 and then export a .fbx file to 3ds Max for export to .map and .trp files for GP BIkes.
I use curves with the "make object live" feature of Maya to rebuild the track surface or just a section of track.
Anyway, thought I'd do a quick tutorial for you and others who may want to use the same techniques.
1: First you make the original track object live(best to isolate the track surface from the rest of the circuit using layers), then use an EP curve(Set to 3 cubic and uniform. Don't use it set to linear), to trace the outline of the original track, the live track object will snap the curve to the edge of the original track.
2: Then use the "Rebuild Curve" feature to rebuild that curve with uniformly spaced number of edit points(Enough edit points so as not to distort the curve upon rebuild).
3: Check every edit point to make sure that it is snapped cleanly onto the edge of the live original track surface.
4: Once your happy with your work. Then offset that curve by a minus track width factor, or a plus track width factor depending on if you are offsetting to outer track edge or inner track edge.
5: Now this is were you've got to be careful. Each edit point in the offset curve is laterally aligned to an edit point of the original curve. Now what you need to do now is snap each edit point of the offset curve onto the other edge of the live original track surface object, but you must make sure not to move any edit point off it's y axis line from the original curve or you'll get distorted quads in the end result.
6: Once your happy with your work, it's time to create the track surface using the "Loft" function set to uniform and quad output. Using curves with plenty of edit points ensures you will get a sliky smooth track surface that follows the line of the curves, even on tight bends, but the tighter the bend the more quads you build into the lofted quad surface(Test for best results).
7: Delete the old track surface. The track surface or section of track surface is now finished. If you wish to alter the track surface for camber or undulations at this time, then the curves are still connected to the newly created track surface, so you can adjust the curves for height, camber using the control points of the curves to do so.
8: Then you have to go around every vert of the surrounding terrain trackside edging, and again using the make live feature, make the new track surface is set to "live" and then snap every terrain surface trackside vert onto the edge of the new track surface to seal the trackside edges to the track.
You can use the same technique to seal any holes accurately, especially between objects you wish to keep separate but which must be aligned properly.
9: If your just creating a new section of track, say a new rebuild for a hairpin, then make sure you marry up the join of the new section of track to the old one by using the "live object" feature to make the original track live and snapping the verts to alignment at the fresh joint. The join probably won't be noticeably out of line by your eye, but they will be very slightly out of line and you need to do this or you'll have a slight ripple in the track surface were they join. Either that or you can try merging, but usually there is a greater number of quads in the hairpin section than on the straight section of track your planning on merging to, so my advice in this circumstance is to keep any tight hi quad corner sections as a separate object from the rest of the track surface unless it's a gentler corner with the same quad topology as the straights, in that case it's better to keep the track as much in one object as possible. In the Mallory track surface rebuild there is only the hairpin section that is a separate object, all the other corners are part of the same track surface object.
10: Then it's just a case of creating your track texture/s, uv mapping to make sure your texture/s fit nicely onto the track surface without any blurring or distortions.
I hope this quick guide helps.
If you need any further help or explanation then just let me know, I'll help all I can. ;)
Quote from: Hawk_UK on April 30, 2014, 08:53:07 AM
OMG!!! This is going to be a VERY strange day indeed!!. Hehe ;D ;D 8)
You won't believe this, but I'd left Max running the exporter after the supposed crash while I posted my entry above, and then when I looked at it again afterwards this was what I saw:
Hmmm ... I wouldn't bet my money on the fact the exporter completed the job for real. But I do hope it did !
MaX.
Wow, I expected to be more easy. Thanks for share that mini tutorial :)
Quote from: BerScott on April 30, 2014, 09:22:07 AM
Wow, I expected to be more easy. Thanks for share that mini tutorial :)
If fact in a lot of ways, so long as you already had the peripheral track model objects like the grand stands and buildings, etc, then it would be a whole lot simpler to just build the track from scratch. :)
Quote from: Hawk_UK on April 30, 2014, 09:25:41 AM
Quote from: BerScott on April 30, 2014, 09:22:07 AM
Wow, I expected to be more easy. Thanks for share that mini tutorial :)
If fact in a lot of ways, so long as you already had the peripheral track model objects like the grand stands and buildings, etc, then it would be a whole lot simpler to just build the track from scratch. :)
Which I think is the proper way to go.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 30, 2014, 09:31:10 AM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on April 30, 2014, 09:25:41 AM
Quote from: BerScott on April 30, 2014, 09:22:07 AM
Wow, I expected to be more easy. Thanks for share that mini tutorial :)
If fact in a lot of ways, so long as you already had the peripheral track model objects like the grand stands and buildings, etc, then it would be a whole lot simpler to just build the track from scratch. :)
Which I think is the proper way to go.
MaX.
+1 ;)
The .trp file exported in approx. 3 seconds. ;D
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7424/13886036270_06d784c816_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/na4yNs)
All is well so far now.... Fingers crossed! :P ;D
Hi Guys....
Here's the download link for the "Turn #4 Track Surface test" on the Dijon Prenois Circuit.
Test Track download Link: https://mega.co.nz/#!HBFC2RDK!gNBh0luIi5fp7w0QPxatRUMBwt19D13gKxt5ftG2f9Q (https://mega.co.nz/#!HBFC2RDK!gNBh0luIi5fp7w0QPxatRUMBwt19D13gKxt5ftG2f9Q)
I've informed Dibu, so later today we will be able to test online also.
Again... Please post your feedback and comments here. Thank You. ;)
Hawk.
Did you resurface only turn 4 or the entire track ? I've done only 2 laps but I'm under the impression you've done the entire track. Placebo effect or ... ?
MaX.
Can't wait to try later after work thanks M8
Max you got to stop taking those Placebo your going to get hooked ;D
Did around 6 laps on the 1000, turn 4 has kept his same "character" without the fear of falling.
It seems too be better, (i look at how the front end vibrates/shakes) its much more smooth with reworked Turn 4.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 30, 2014, 12:01:34 PM
Did you resurface only turn 4 or the entire track ? I've done only 2 laps but I'm under the impression you've done the entire track. Placebo effect or ... ?
MaX.
No... I only did leading up to turn #4 and a stretch after exiting turn #4, the rest of the track looked fine to me, I think Janu has done some work on it before he sent me the track file? Not sure?
That's so much better on the 125 it took 5 laps to crash going a bit faster each time. ;D
No longer just coasting afraid to gas it or lean too much I think your on to something Hawk_UK well down
Hi guys...
Thanks for the feedback so far... Much appreciated. ;) ;D
To Hawk_UK: the time to export the map files with shadows can be very long, more than 3 hours for ulster
The exporter can crash and saying nothing to you.
3 possibility of what happens:
1 - the exporter run and finish his job and it's written ending log
2 - the exporter run and finish his job but no more window of the exporter, clic on the big green menu of 3ds max(up in the left side) and the exporter window will appear.
3 - The exporter begin his work and crash--> you can see if it crashed by applying the up solution(2), and if no window appear it significate that the exporter has crashed. The second thing you will be sure that the exporter has crashed is if you see no more your mouse in wait mod( a blue circle on win7)
Solution for me when a crash of exporter happens: I only must to restart 3ds max, if i attempt to redo an export without restart i'm sure at 99.99% that it will crash ever.
Good work Hawk.
This one for me is much less noticeable then Mallory 1978. I never had much trouble at this track before the change.
Quote from: Klax75 on April 30, 2014, 08:24:52 PM
This one for me is much less noticeable then Mallory 1978. I never had much trouble at this track before the change.
In this turn the problem was not the usual "OMG I've lost the front without knowing why", it was more the strange behavior of the bike spinning on itself while leaning (almost losing the rear for no reason).
With respect to that, the resurfacing didn't bring any improvement I think: I can still see the bike swinging in that turn.
If that's confirmed (we do need to put more laps in) then there seem to be 2 separate issues: bad surface making you lose the front (and this can be fixed, as shown by Hawk) and the strangeness on banked/sloped turns (for which can can nothing).
MaX.
Quote from: janaucarre on April 30, 2014, 07:57:40 PM
To Hawk_UK: the time to export the map files with shadows can be very long, more than 3 hours for ulster
The exporter can crash and saying nothing to you.
3 possibility of what happens:
1 - the exporter run and finish his job and it's written ending log
2 - the exporter run and finish his job but no more window of the exporter, clic on the big green menu of 3ds max(up in the left side) and the exporter window will appear.
3 - The exporter begin his work and crash--> you can see if it crashed by applying the up solution(2), and if no window appear it significate that the exporter has crashed. The second thing you will be sure that the exporter has crashed is if you see no more your mouse in wait mod( a blue circle on win7)
Solution for me when a crash of exporter happens: I only must to restart 3ds max, if i attempt to redo an export without restart i'm sure at 99.99% that it will crash ever.
Hi Janu.....
Thanks for the above advice mate..... Appreciated.... At least I know know the quirkiness of that EDF exporter in 3ds Max. ;) ;D
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 30, 2014, 08:36:14 PM
Quote from: Klax75 on April 30, 2014, 08:24:52 PM
This one for me is much less noticeable then Mallory 1978. I never had much trouble at this track before the change.
In this turn the problem was not the usual "OMG I've lost the front without knowing why", it was more the strange behavior of the bike spinning on itself while leaning (almost losing the rear for no reason).
With respect to that, the resurfacing didn't bring any improvement I think: I can still see the bike swinging in that turn.
If that's confirmed (we do need to put more laps in) then there seem to be 2 separate issues: bad surface making you lose the front (and this can be fixed, as shown by Hawk) and the strangeness on banked/sloped turns (for which can can nothing).
MaX.
Yes. I know what you mean, but the with the drop off angle of the track surface as you rise up that slope on turn 4, it seems to sort of increase your lean angle for a second until you get further around the corner. It is at that critical point were you have to have good throttle control or your back end will just spin around on you...... At least I think that is what's happening? Not sure if this is a physics thing or just a quirk of that corner?
Thing is, it spins even off throttle ... just feels (and looks) weird. I think it's a physics thing, al ong time ago Piboso acknowledged some sort of known issue for banked/sloped turns.
Anyway, at least now we know what you can't fix :)
MaX.
track feels great hawk nice job!!
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2901/14097495923_77a20465c7_b.jpg)
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 30, 2014, 09:44:06 PM
Thing is, it spins even off throttle ... just feels (and looks) weird. I think it's a physics thing, al ong time ago Piboso acknowledged some sort of known issue for banked/sloped turns.
Anyway, at least now we know what you can't fix :)
MaX.
Hmm... I must admit I haven't had my bike spin without applying too much throttle.... Maybe I'm not trying hard enough. ;D
Here, take this chicken as a token of my appreciation 8)
(http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/ay5mE9p_460sa.gif)
Two sample videos of what I mean with the bike spinning on turn 4 in Dijon (original surface, not Hawk's one).
#1:
No throttle, no brake. There's a tiny front brake at sec 0:16, but the problem appears before that, in between sec 0:15 and 0:16.
http://www.youtube.com/v/7Dyz17-Wd_g
#2:
No input whatsoever here, strill the bike spins at 0:05.
http://www.youtube.com/v/WbpdO0g3Bp0
I really can't find a reasonable explanation of why a bike should behave like this.
Granted, with a bit of practice we can manage to take the turn without falling (I do) and sometimes the bike spins a bit but does not crash, but still ...
Even the movement of the rear (right) suspension (that may be a tad too soft in these examples) seems weird to me ... maybe there's some sort of problem when it bottoms out ...
Not a surface problem for me, there' something in the physics.
MaX.
Hmm... I take a different line into there, that's probably why I haven't had the back end do what I see in you vid.
Are you sure your bike isn't grounding? Have you tried upping your preload to see if it stops it?
PS: I'm tempted to say it's because your riding a crappy 4 stroke bike, but I think you'd slap me. Hehe ;D ;D
Quote from: Hawk_UK on May 01, 2014, 10:21:05 PM
Hmm... I take a different line into there, that's probably why I haven't had the back end do what I see in you vid.
Are you sure your bike isn't grounding? Have you tried upping your preload to see if it stops it?
It doesn't seem to be the case. Even if, grounding could put the bike down but I don't see how it could make you lose the end or spin.
Probably the most surprising thing is that often the bike spins a lot (beyond a level you could save in real life) and still it does not crash.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on May 01, 2014, 10:21:05 PM
PS: I'm tempted to say it's because your riding a crappy 4 stroke bike, but I think you'd slap me. Hehe ;D ;D
Pick your favorite noise and smoke maker and give it a try. But you won't be able to see if it's the power that makes you spin, as with a 2t in that turn you have as much power as a badly tuned 1975 skoda running on watered down 93RON essence :)
MaX.
I have the same with the 125cc, I think the answer here is noy the polys or quads used but the difference in gradiant, as it not constant incline the bike could go light at these points,
It not very easy to get inclines,camber,radias all into the same turn.