Poll
Question:
How do you like that proposal for respawn:
Option 1: Great
votes: 3
Option 2: Nice
votes: 8
Option 3: I don't care
votes: 0
Option 4: Hate it
votes: 0
Discussing the respawn issues in the beta7 thread.
Past solution: GPB allows you to respawn (on track) only when the track is clear. Bad, because sometimes you wait forever to respawn.
Current solution: GPB allows you to respawn (on track) immediately. Bad, as sometimes you appear right on the trajectory of incoming players.
Proposal:
- You crash and the bike stops somewhere
- At that point you can press the respawn button a first time and you will respawn on track but as a "ghost" (i.e. invisible for others, no collisions).
- Now you can look left/right/back and when you think the way is clear, you press the respawn a second time, finally appearing on the track and being able to start.
It could be even better: while you're a ghost, you could move the bike to a different spot (off-trajectory, or even off the track) before reappearing, if necessary.
To me it sounds OK as it gives the responsibility of the respawn to the player: he can chose the where and the when. Yes I know, we'll have cases of a$$holes not doing it properly but that's life.
How does that sound ?
MaX.
P.S.
I use "ghost" but this is not related with the ghost feature of KRP (being able to race against a pre-recorded non-collidable ghost).
I gave it a Nice because although the idea is sound I worry for the difficulty of programming and awful human nature (lol) yes I know you took that into consideration already. If someone told me it was easy to do I would up-vote to a great!
My favourite solution would be to respawn off the track (if it could be done - one track not having off track ability shouldn't stop it as an option).
Poll-tastic!
Quote from: Napalm Nick on August 06, 2015, 10:44:58 AM
I gave it a Nice because although the idea is sound I worry for the difficulty of programming
Don't. It really doesn't sound impossible. And it would apply to MXB too (arguably it could be even more important for MXB).
Quote from: Napalm Nick on August 06, 2015, 10:44:58 AM
awful human nature (lol) yes I know you took that into consideration already. If someone told me it was easy to do I would up-vote to a great!
Yeah but when you think about how many other possibilities a donkey has to ruin your race, then it's hard to be picky on this one ... I mean, we've seen people riding in the wrong direction ...
Quote from: Napalm Nick on August 06, 2015, 10:44:58 AM
My favourite solution would be to respawn off the track (if it could be done - one track not having off track ability shouldn't stop it as an option).
The problem is not one track, there are multiple tracks where some sections may not allow for off track (e.g. straights where you have the finish line, you may have walls on both sides).
But if GPB can do off-track when possible, then yes, that may be preferred.
MaX.
I like your proposal but another option could be to respawn next to the track...?
Quote from: SKD on August 06, 2015, 10:57:27 AM
I like your proposal but another option could be to respawn next to the track...?
Ouch, already explained: some tracks (or track sections) do not have a "next to the track zone". Think about tracks in the city (Macau, Moontecarlo), or sections where you have walls left and right.
Also (but this may be considered minor) this would oblige all tracks makers to rework on the tracks. But otherwise yes, respawn off track (if it is possible) would be better.
MaX.
Even as close to the edge (white line) as humanly possible would be better than current, but not as good as your proposal, if off-track/off-line cant be achieved.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on August 06, 2015, 11:13:13 AM
Even as close to the edge (white line) as humanly possible would be better than current
It depends, sometimes the racing line is just there, close to the edge. That's why it's hard to do something like "spawn on track but not on the racing line".
MaX.
Nice from me but only because it would be better than what we have currently. Better still if the bike did not magically transport to another location and instead put the rider back on the bike wherever it stopped, leaving them to dig themselves out of whatever terrain the crash got them into or give approaching riders the better chance of determining a line that would avoid a collision if the bike did not leave the track for whatever reason.
Quote from: teeds on August 06, 2015, 11:34:57 AM
Nice from me but only because it would be better than what we have currently. Better still if the bike did not magically transport to another location and instead put the rider back on the bike wherever it stopped, leaving them to dig themselves out of whatever terrain the crash got them into or give approaching riders the better chance of determining a line that would avoid a collision if the bike did not leave the track for whatever reason.
Man, you've to read the past discussion :) what you're suggesting has a major problem: if while crashed the bike misses a checkpoint, you'd lose a lap during a race.
But if that can be solved (and maybe it can), then why not ... a crash is a crash, if the bike ends up stopping mid-track, then be it.
MaX.
Dont shoot me, but what about the system the motogp games use (blasphamy i know :P) but just spawn as a ghost with reduced power and maybe an indicator that you've just spawned for a bit the back up to full power and off you go?
This would solve the issues faced at macau or such tracks.
Another good point Matty similar to Max's with slight 'improvements' maybe.
After reviewing all the options up to this point now (and likely to change again with more discussion) my current preference is to fix it so checkpoints can't be missed by a fall, and the respawn occurs where the bike stopped. A win for playability and a win for 'realism' (I respawned just last night). OK don't call it 'respawn' call it 'get-back-on'. FTW! ;D
Yeah, the "respawn where it stopped" sounds cool if checkpoint are not missed.
The only danger is that potentially people could exploit this in race and to set lap times (quali session, or just lap records).
For races it's no biggie, the organisers could add a penalty if that happens (manual handling).
For lap records (that includes quali session) it would be enough to discard a lap time as soon as there has been a fall (anyway, it wasn't a good lap).
Liking it.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 06, 2015, 11:39:10 AM
if while crashed the bike misses a checkpoint, you'd lose a lap during a race.
This should be fixed too then, if you run off track and don't fall it sounds like this would also still be an issue :) I'm just not keen on bike teleportation as a solution at all.
Quote from: teeds on August 06, 2015, 12:14:16 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 06, 2015, 11:39:10 AM
if while crashed the bike misses a checkpoint, you'd lose a lap during a race.
This should be fixed too then, if you run off track and don't fall it sounds like this would also still be an issue :) I'm just not keen on bike teleportation as a solution at all.
Well it's made on purpose, otherwise you'll have plenty of people cutting corners and chicanes ...
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 06, 2015, 12:19:01 PM
Well it's made on purpose, otherwise you'll have plenty of people cutting corners and chicanes ...
Really? I find it hard to believe that that's an intended feature to stop cutters :o I've never before played a racing game were a lap is discounted due to cutting, too many times the cut could be due to third party actions. Other solutions did include adding track objects to stop or at least deter it, detect cutting and highlight it (to stop hot lapping cheaters) or, like in real life check during or after an event and penalise when it actually matters, the last option being my desired method for this game too.
Quote from: teeds on August 06, 2015, 02:35:38 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 06, 2015, 12:19:01 PM
Well it's made on purpose, otherwise you'll have plenty of people cutting corners and chicanes ...
Really? I find it hard to believe that that's an intended feature to stop cutters :o I've never before played a racing game were a lap is discounted due to cutting, too many times the cut could be due to third party actions. Other solutions did include adding track objects to stop or at least deter it, detect cutting and highlight it (to stop hot lapping cheaters) or, like in real life check during or after an event and penalise when it actually matters, the last option being my desired method for this game too.
It's up to the track maker: if they put checkpoints in it, they will be honored and, if skipped, the lap will not count.
It makes sense for "fastest lap" competitions (like the record page or Hot Lap events).
MaX.
Makes sense for fast lap records but only that, I guess we need a server option to turn it off as required as it seems a bit much to ask for racing and hotlap versions of tracks, fix one thing and break others eh :(
Quote from: teeds on August 06, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Makes sense for fast lap records but only that, I guess we need a server option to turn it off as required as it seems a bit much to ask for racing and hotlap versions of tracks, fix one thing and break others eh :(
It could make sense if it's off during races. But it should be kept on for anything else (testing, quali and warmup).
Feel free to post under the suggestion section: if it's accepted, then the "respawn where the bike stops" makes more sense !
MaX.
Wherever the bike ends up after a crash is where you should restart/respawn from. Personally I just want to look who is coming before I hit the respawn button.. Be fine as long as you respawn in the same place and not somewhere random.
In an ideal world hehe, have the rider pick up and push the bike and all that jazzy stuff! 8) bike damage too! But.... Aint gonna happen.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on August 06, 2015, 08:23:17 PM
Wherever the bike ends up after a crash is where you should restart/respawn from. Personally I just want to look who is coming before I hit the respawn button.. Be fine as long as you respawn in the same place and not somewhere random.
As said by h106, if you respawn where the bike stops, then the bike is already sitting there, so there's no need to look around before respawning (but yes before restarting).
If the issue with missing checkpoints is solved (somehow: do not take into account missed checkpoints in races, do count them in quali/testing/warmup) then it's probably the best solution.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 06, 2015, 09:07:23 PM
(somehow: do not take into account missed checkpoints in races, do count them in quali/testing/warmup)
More detailed ways of applying it wouldn't hurt, but simply off would be fine if it's too complicated to set per session, as already said there's other ways of dealing with it.
Quote from: teeds on August 07, 2015, 07:32:06 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 06, 2015, 09:07:23 PM
(somehow: do not take into account missed checkpoints in races, do count them in quali/testing/warmup)
More detailed ways of applying it wouldn't hurt, but simply off would be fine if it's too complicated to set per session, as already said there's other ways of dealing with it.
Hmm, off would be bad for hot lapping and records: doing it right it's just an extra "if".
Let's create a new topic with your proposal and see what others think: honestly it seems better overall than what I proposed here.
MaX.
I'm locking this topic, as the proposal described here (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2560.0) is defintely better.
MaX.