A different proposal for respawn (mostly from teeds): just respawn wherever the bike stops and disregard chekcpoints (i.e count the lap even if a checkpoint is missed).
I can see only 2 issues:
- During races, if a checkpoint is missed, this should be flagged in the results so that race organisers can decide after what to do (time penalty or not), watching the replay. But during quali and testing (for Hotlap events and record page), a lap during which a checkpoint is missed should not be taken into account. That should be trivial to implement.
- When you crash hard, sometimes the bike ends up behind a low wall / guardrail: if it respawns there, you could be trapped. Maybe we can just live with that: it was a big crash, you're out of the race.
It sounds very reasonable to me: no issue of respawning on track all of a sudden (like right now), kind of more realistic, should be very easy to implement.
Do we all agree this is the preferred way to handle respawn ?
MaX.
If the camera snaps to view back down the track to see if it is clear (just incase the bike lands back on track) then this could work well.
IRL you'd pick the bike up where it lands, not where you fell.
gets my vote - respawn (get back on) where the bike ends up.
I think it was Hawk who suggested that the on line game needed a way to discourage foolish heroics. As in real life if an overtake is too risky you should drop back and wait for a better opportunity and ride with the intention of staying upright to the end and ride within the limits of the bikes handling at any given time.
Falling should have some sort of consequence, this may be especially true once the physics/bikes are fixed and you only have yourself to blame otherwise i can see this all starting again with the next beta.
Maybe the respawn needs a 'hardcore' option in the server rules setup to give hosts some flexibility with several different rules and experiment a bit. Maybe developing the server rules options is a better long term solution.
From the degree of discussion the respawn seem to have risen to the top of the 'must fix' list
Quote from: matty0l215 on August 07, 2015, 09:19:12 AM
If the camera snaps to view back down the track to see if it is clear (just incase the bike lands back on track) then this could work well.
As soon as you press the respawn button you'll be back on the bike (no waiting for the track to be clear), so you will be able to look left/right/back before starting to move.
MaX.
Nope. Ignore me.
If the bike is in the middle of the track it could still be hit by other riders anyway. The fact that weather ithe bike is on its side or with a rider ontop doesnt matter:P the problem we have currently is the sudden appearance of a rider after respawning.
;D
Agree Matt. If the bike is on the track on the racing line so be it. At least players can see it there and make changes (just like real).
I'm so excited I want (would really like) to see it implemented.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on August 07, 2015, 10:04:03 AM
Agree Matt. If the bike is on the track on the racing line so be it. At least players can see it there and make changes (just like real).
Yep, that's the key point.
MaX.
As a compromise from the hardcore option I agree with what you say there Max in your first post, but as h106frp and I have suggested in the past, a server setup option for hardcore respawning would be good too, as in if you fall or crash your out of the race. I'm sure this would stop riders from riding over or at their maximum limits all of the time and make riding at 95% for 99.9% of a race the thing to do to finish a race and only ride at your maximum limits whenever you feel you need too(with the obvious risks of crashing-out associated of course). :)
But the main thing is not to have the bike respawning on track because even if you can look back to make sure of a clear track to respawn you'll always get some riders who'll disregard looking back and press the respawn button straight away after crashing(human nature I guess. Lol :P )
But it's a difficult one to resolve, as not respawning on track will cause problems with some tracks(especially real road tracks that have a wall or barrier right on track-side; respawning there off-track could or will cause a possible respawn behind walls or barriers. So maybe the best thing is the hardcore solution of crash and your out - if only for race events, and leave the normal respawn on track for practice or test sessions only?
Hawk.
@Hawk: the hardcore option (crash = out) is a separate topic. Nothing against it, as far as it's an option.
That aside, teeds' suggestion solves the issue of spawn on-track vs off-track: just spawn where the bike stops. As the bike is already stopped there, incoming riders won't be surprised (just like in reality).
When you press the respawn button, the bike will just go from laid down to back on its wheels: it will then be up to you to decide if it is right/safe to start moving or wait.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 07, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
@Hawk: the hardcore option (crash = out) is a separate topic. Nothing against it, as far as it's an option.
That aside, teeds' suggestion solves the issue of spawn on-track vs off-track: just spawn where the bike stops. As the bike is already stopped there, incoming riders won't be surprised (just like in reality).
When you press the respawn button, the bike will just go from laid down to back on its wheels: it will then be up to you to decide if it is right/safe to start moving or wait.
MaX.
Nice suggestion from Teeds, which would work out okay for most crashes, but what would happen if a bike crashes over a barrier, respawns behind the barrier and can't get back on track? It's a difficult one to be fair to all.
Just playing the Devils Advocate here. ;)
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk UK on August 07, 2015, 02:09:05 PM
Nice suggestion from Teeds, which would work out okay for most crashes, but what would happen if a bike crashes over a barrier, respawns behind the barrier and can't get back on track? It's a difficult one to be fair to all.
Just playing the Devils Advocate here. ;)
Get in line :) point #2 in my initial post in this topic.
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 07, 2015, 07:54:13 AM
I can see only 2 issues:
- During races, if a checkpoint is missed, this should be flagged in the results so that race organisers can decide after what to do (time penalty or not), watching the replay. But during quali and testing (for Hotlap events and record page), a lap during which a checkpoint is missed should not be taken into account. That should be trivial to implement.
- When you crash hard, sometimes the bike ends up behind a low wall / guardrail: if it respawns there, you could be trapped. Maybe we can just live with that: it was a big crash, you're out of the race.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 07, 2015, 07:54:13 AM
- When you crash hard, sometimes the bike ends up behind a low wall / guardrail: if it respawns there, you could be trapped. Maybe we can just live with that: it was a big crash, you're out of the race.
+1 with this, consider it as your bike is damaged beyond use or your dead, dying or at least on way to hospital :)
Agree - in effect this should only give the option of "Return to Pits" - hence in a Practice or qualification its not so bad but its a Race retirement - unlucky!
So it looks OK for teeds, me, Napalm, matty and Hawk at least.
If we disregard the huge UK-bias, we can call it a YES.
OK, next: how do we manage to submit this proposal to the gods high above ?
I'd gladly leave that part to somebody else.
MaX.
Sorry Max.... I'm flicking through missed posts trying to catch up on the last two weeks. Lol
But yeah.... Totally agree with that one Teeds! 8)
Hawk.
Submit as an official Bug report including a solution. Who couldn't love that?
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 07, 2015, 07:54:13 AM
A different proposal for respawn (mostly from teeds): just respawn wherever the bike stops and disregard chekcpoints (i.e count the lap even if a checkpoint is missed).
I can see only 2 issues:
- During races, if a checkpoint is missed, this should be flagged in the results so that race organisers can decide after what to do (time penalty or not), watching the replay. But during quali and testing (for Hotlap events and record page), a lap during which a checkpoint is missed should not be taken into account. That should be trivial to implement.
- When you crash hard, sometimes the bike ends up behind a low wall / guardrail: if it respawns there, you could be trapped. Maybe we can just live with that: it was a big crash, you're out of the race.
It sounds very reasonable to me: no issue of respawning on track all of a sudden (like right now), kind of more realistic, should be very easy to implement.
Do we all agree this is the preferred way to handle respawn ?
MaX.
bike damage system is my proposal and i think it is easy to execute and why not respawn on the grass why on the road.
Ooops I better answer that before Max throws his toys from the pram - not all tracks have an "off the track" respawn area such as grass. Discussed a few times in this thread (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2556.0)already where this topic was borne from lol. Of course new readers wont know that ;D
IMO Damage model would also be great but now I want nothing more than the 5/6 basic problems to be sorted. All the rest is glitz and glamour for the final product.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on August 15, 2015, 08:35:04 AM
Ooops I better answer that before Max throws his toys from the pram
I never throw my toys, I like to hang to them. But I can throw plenty of other things :)
I guess we can close this thread. Outcome is: respawn where the bike stops, wherever that is (i.e. if it's in an area that does not allow you to go back to track, too bad, you'll have to pit).
Just ensure that if a checkpoint is cut while the bike is falling, the lap is still counted during a race(of course, not during testing, quali, warmup). One simple way to do this would be: ignore checkpoints during races. If one is cut by a rider, just signal it in the race results and the race directors will see what to do with that.
Overall, a very easy development that would solve a pretty annoying issue. So I expect all this to be completely ignored for the next beta (whenever and if that will happen).
MaX.
P.S.
If somebody wants to make a single post describing the solution so that Piboso doesn't need to read across page and pages, be my guest.
I have not read the entire thread ... but it is much easier to enter for 3 seconds after respawn the bike is immaterial? ???
Needless to say, "not realistic" ... do you think this incident is realistic? Personally I have never seen a bike to do something like this:
It is advisable to watch it in 720p 60fps
https://www.youtube.com/v/pSy5Qeo2wHg
Nothing wrong with that crash.. in fact i could pull a similar crash from youtube right now! ;D
Sure ... touch the grass with the back with full gas and the bike goes precise (unperturbed) for its trajectory ... better than reality.
The pilot had a parachute and soon saw the error he pulled the rope to activate ::)
Quote from: Blackheart on August 15, 2015, 10:57:18 AM
Sure ... touch the grass with the back with full gas and the bike goes precise (unperturbed) for its trajectory ... better than reality.
The pilot had a parachute and soon saw the error he pulled the rope to activate ::)
yeah the rider jumping off is really bad.. happens on most curbs. especially mugello :-\
QuoteP.S.
If somebody wants to make a single post describing the solution so that Piboso doesn't need to read across page and pages, be my guest.
I will have a go then, for what it is worth, maybe entitle it "EMERGENCY........."
Quote from: Blackheart on August 15, 2015, 10:12:13 AM
Needless to say, "not realistic" ... do you think this incident is realistic? Personally I have never seen a bike to do something like this:
But what has this to do with the respawn logic ?! :o
3 second "ghost mode" is likely way harder to implement. And as it is less realistic too, there's really little point IMO.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 15, 2015, 11:29:11 AM
Quote from: Blackheart on August 15, 2015, 10:12:13 AM
Needless to say, "not realistic" ... do you think this incident is realistic? Personally I have never seen a bike to do something like this:
But what has this to do with the respawn logic ?! :o
3 second "ghost mode" is likely way harder to implement. And as it is less realistic too, there's really little point IMO.
MaX.
I'll have to explain? Turn on your brain instead of spamming
your "solutions".
Quote from: Blackheart on August 15, 2015, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 15, 2015, 11:29:11 AM
Quote from: Blackheart on August 15, 2015, 10:12:13 AM
Needless to say, "not realistic" ... do you think this incident is realistic? Personally I have never seen a bike to do something like this:
But what has this to do with the respawn logic ?! :o
3 second "ghost mode" is likely way harder to implement. And as it is less realistic too, there's really little point IMO.
MaX.
I'll have to explain? Turn on your brain instead of spamming your "solutions".
LOL. OK pal.
MaX.