For those who saw the Sepang GP, I will not talk about the incident (there's another thread)
I want to know what you think on the reason for Marquez to obstruct Rossi (similar to Phillip Island) I see no reason to favor Lorenzo (although both are Spanish, but I do not think this is the reason), but it is clear that it happened. ???
I didn't see any obstruction. Rossi can just pass him if he feels he is faster than Marc.
Has let pass Lorenzo (too obviously) and forced Rossi to fight with him. He never tried to go get the first (Mike Webb (RD) words).
An interesting question - Possibly because even if Marc was obstructing - it can't be proved unless he admits it. No penalty can be given for what may be "ghosts in Rossis head" (a commentator quote not mine).
Edit: However, personally I think Marc should of stayed the hell out of it. Nobody should mess with a championship battle even if it isn't a 'rule'.
Come- on Bradley! ;)
On German website motorsport-total.com there's a quote from the race director saying that race direction agrees Marc is slowing Rossi on purpose. But also there is no rule that can be used against Marc's driving. Can see it here: http://www.motorsport-total.com/motorrad/news/2015/10/rossi-vs-marquez-das-sagt-die-rennleitung-15102507.html
Use google-translator, if that's not woorking out I can do the translation. Otherwise there are some other fellow countrymen around here ;) .
Like I said inside the other thread I am a Rossi-fan. Also do not like Marc's behaviour. But I can see his point. As a fan of VR46 I hate. But honestly as a rider I might copy Marc's style in some ways. Acctually been doing this occasionally during Kart racing years ago.
Good link, an interesting read and, at the end of the day, the only opinion that counts (Race Director).
Seems he says the same, right or wrong - no penalty because no 'rule' broken.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on October 25, 2015, 11:01:43 PM
Good link, an interesting read and, at the end of the day, the only opinion that counts (Race Director).
Seems he says the same, right or wrong - no penalty because no 'rule' broken.
Agree.
Lorenzo has made a new friend ... for a little. ;D
if anything upset me about this whole debacle, other than the incident itself, it is how Lorenzo started reacting and throwing his 2 vents into the after race discussions, when he should've stayed the hell out of it.
as much respect as i have for Lorenzo, i lost some more for him as well - and have now coined a new nickname for him, courtesy of on of my sport chat buddies - J-Lo. lol
Quote from: CapeDoctor on October 26, 2015, 03:58:46 AM
if anything upset me about this whole debacle, other than the incident itself, it is how Lorenzo started reacting and throwing his 2 vents into the after race discussions, when he should've stayed the hell out of it.
as much respect as i have for Lorenzo, i lost some more for him as well - and have now coined a new nickname for him, courtesy of on of my sport chat buddies - J-Lo. lol
Indeed, Lorenzo is always in pole position when it's time to whine. Even if I think he is right this time (Rossi should have a point penalty), I think he should not have cried it out that loud (Pedrosa essentially said the same, but in a much more appropriate manner).
Another funny nickname for him: Lowrenzo :)
MaX.
After Stacey Moaner, we now have Whoregay Lowrenzo....
Quote from: CapeDoctor on October 26, 2015, 03:58:46 AM
if anything upset me about this whole debacle, other than the incident itself, it is how Lorenzo started reacting and throwing his 2 vents into the after race discussions, when he should've stayed the hell out of it.
as much respect as i have for Lorenzo, i lost some more for him as well - and have now coined a new nickname for him, courtesy of on of my sport chat buddies - J-Lo. lol
Lorenzo proved not to deserve the world title this year. I hope in the usual miracle of Rossi in the race ... but it will be almost impossible this time.
Quote from: Blackheart on October 26, 2015, 04:22:05 PM
Quote from: CapeDoctor on October 26, 2015, 03:58:46 AM
if anything upset me about this whole debacle, other than the incident itself, it is how Lorenzo started reacting and throwing his 2 vents into the after race discussions, when he should've stayed the hell out of it.
as much respect as i have for Lorenzo, i lost some more for him as well - and have now coined a new nickname for him, courtesy of on of my sport chat buddies - J-Lo. lol
Lorenzo proved not to deserve the world title this year. I hope in the usual miracle of Rossi in the race ... but it will be almost impossible this time.
Throwing a paddy isn't reason for losing a title but It does show how immature the prat is...
Marquez was wrong in my opinion for not yeliding the position (if he had breaked he could have undercut rossi and fro'ed up the back straight) but in the same token, he did nothing that is penelty worthy.
And No-one at honda now are going to say "stay out of it" between vale and lorenzo so he will probably be right up rossis arse forcong him into mistakes at valencia. Then they can black flag him for being a little shit.
hahahahaha yes actually I think that is rule 431 Article 2.2. "Any rider may be shown the black flag if considered to be a little shit" ;D
I have found new info!
I didn't know that Rossi has to start from the back of the grid at Valencia.
P**k the little s**t Marquez and he chum George... Wait'a ruin a good championship fight you little t@*t :P
Lol
Quote from: Napalm Nick on October 26, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
hahahahaha yes actually I think that is rule 431 Article 2.2. "Any rider may be shown the black flag if considered to be a little shit" ;D
LOL! ;D
Hawk.
Little wip tribute for Marquez... (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2768.msg41582#new) ;D
My round up is coming this week. Still trying to wrap my head around everything that happened. Right now I mostly feel sad actually, not because I've always been a Rossi fan but because I feel that everybody lost if we look at the big picture. Even Pedrosa who rode brilliantly to win the race, but not getting the deserved credit cause everybody is so focused on the Marc and Rossi-incident. It was a brilliant season that ended ugly and all three protagonists (Rossi, Marquez and Lorenzo) played their part in tarnishing it. I will go into more details in the round up, but my general opinion is that all of them acted like idiots, one way or another.
Cheers,
/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
+1 david. And whoever will win, it's gonna stink now.
MaX.
whichever way you look at it, and whoever you support, this recent incident has certainly got people talking motogp lately, that's for sure.
the sport will bounce back, the riders will bounce back, and all will be fascinating in 2016, whatever happens to this year's champs.
here's a few little comments posted by some riders on social media concerning this latest incident, just for the hell of it:
If anyone else had done what Valentino did we would have been black flagged immediately, no questions asked - Casey Stoner
MM was riding like a dick to block VR. VR gave him looks of warning & MM didn't accept. You try ride on outside & catch, it's what happens - Josh Brookes
Gonna be interesting. @marcmarquez93 asked for it the whole race and @ValeYellow46 intentionally gave it to him so both riders are at fault - Ben Spies
All I will say is 46 and 93 would not have been able to continue to race like that all race , I'm happy it happened at slow speed - Troy Bayliss
Think if It was any other rider they would of been disqualified from the race for sure... - Carl Fogarty
If you play with fire MM you'll get burned! #motogp Hope @ValeYellow46 can cut through the field at Valencia & fight for championship - James Ellison
It was cheeky/dirty of Rossi. No doubt. But he never meant a crash. He was running him wide,ruining his exit and making a point. - James Haydon
Twitter is very quick to jump to conclusions on the Rossi-Marquez incident @MotoGP it takes two to tango.. - Jeremy McWilliams
Marc broke the unwritten rule, always RESPECT those fighting for a Championship when you're not. Vale got enraged and hung him out to dry - Michael Laverty
Ok, my opinion: MM is fighting for pride, not a championship. VR gets tired of MM's close racing - Colin Edwards
a real mixed bag, as well - if there are so many differing opinions among top riders, imagine the chaos down at regular Joe Soap fan level, lol
for the record, Josh Brookes quote above is my favorite, lol 8)
Well said Laverty :-*
Regards,
Joe Soap
it doesn't take long lol ;D
(http://i65.tinypic.com/r91tv7.jpg)
looking forward to Valencia ;)
hopefully they all leave the handbags at home and give us an epic title decider, anything can happen 8)
QuoteMarc broke the unwritten rule, always RESPECT those fighting for a Championship when you're not. Vale got enraged and hung him out to dry - Michael Laverty
Epic Win! ;D
P.S. Lol Bob!
I hope the entire field lets Rossi by without contest to show protest against such a stupid ruling.
You can do the math 312 vs 305
1. 25
2.20
3.16
4.13
5.11
6.10
7.9
8.8
9.7
10.6
etc......... If Rossi can get through the field quick enough and Jorge has a bad race then Rossi can take the title. Maybe Clutchblow will think he is fast enough to be with the front runners and ruin Rossi pace to get to the front... That would be the end all of a nutty year in MotoGP.
What about the Flying Duck?? (Iannone) He doesn't give a s**t who's at the front he'll just power through ;D
Is Valencia... a spanish track, if Lorenzo in Pole... game over.
Quote from: Blackheart on October 27, 2015, 07:59:30 PM
Is Valencia... a spanish track, if Lorenzo in Pole... game over.
Maybe Marc will have a change of heart and T bone him into the first corner :P
Petrucci could make a miracle ... (it's definitely the best Italian rider after Rossi) but ride a tricycle :-X
Maybe if rain...
Quote from: WALKEN on October 27, 2015, 07:53:13 PM
I hope the entire field lets Rossi by without contest to show protest against such a stupid ruling.
Yeah, right. I'm sure Vale himself would be very proud of that ...
But out of curiosity, what would have been, in your opinon, an intelligent ruling in Sepang race ?
MaX.
Quote from: Blackheart on October 27, 2015, 08:07:01 PM
Petrucci could make a miracle ... (it's definitely the best Italian rider after Rossi) but ride a tricycle :-X
Maybe if rain...
Hey your bloody Italian, support your bloody bike!!! :P
Iannone and Dovi are better rider than Rossi ever was
on a Ducati at least ::)
Doesn't look like rain... (http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2509954)
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 27, 2015, 08:10:14 PM
Quote from: WALKEN on October 27, 2015, 07:53:13 PM
I hope the entire field lets Rossi by without contest to show protest against such a stupid ruling.
Yeah, right. I'm sure Vale himself would be very proud of that ...
But out of curiosity, what would have been, in your opinon, an intelligent ruling in Sepang race ?
MaX.
In My Opinion
70/30 Rossi/Marquez (and this is from a Rossi over Marquez fan)
The crash was avoidable by Marc, he provoked Rossi into it. But Rossi was wrong for causing him to crash.
Quote from: matty0l215 on October 27, 2015, 08:14:37 PM
70/30 Rossi/Marquez (and this is from a Rossi over Marquez fan)
But how do you translate 70/30 into a race director's decision ?
Marquez has lost a pretty much granted 3rd or 4th place, Rossi arrived 3rd. What's your call ?
Notice that from a Race Direction point of view, the fact that the championship is at stake is irrelevant (or nearly so).
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 27, 2015, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: matty0l215 on October 27, 2015, 08:14:37 PM
70/30 Rossi/Marquez (and this is from a Rossi over Marquez fan)
But how do you translate 70/30 into a race director's decision ?
Marquez has lost a pretty much granted 3rd or 4th place, Rossi arrived 3rd. What's your call ?
Notice that from a Race Direction point of view, the fact that the championship is at stake is irrelevant (or nearly so).
MaX.
Fair enough, i'm just saying 70 30 because it puts most of the blame on Rossi, which it was his fault. But i still hold that the incident could have been avoided if Marquez had of yielded.
Rossi was completely off line (which he shouldn't have been for sure) and Marquez could have gone under Rossi instead of around him and he would have been a quarter of the way up the straight before Rossi could have recovered.
And as for race directory, if they had black flagged Rossi, they'd of had a riot on their hands :o Their decision might not have been... "Correct", but it gave Rossi enough of a kick in the teeth to make him have to fight hard for his championship.
I'm not saying that it wasn't Rossi's fault (it was pretty clear that it was). But he's not 100% to blame :P As Walken said, he didn't kick him, He nudged him with his knee ::) ;D
@Matty: so essentially you're saying VR is guilty and escaped a DSQ only because he's VR. That's bad.
And the reason it is bad is that, if Rossi does a wonderful job in Valencia and wins the title, Jorge will always be able to say "he should have been DSQ", and rightly so. As C.Fogarty said (and Stoner too, but OK, it's Stoner), if any other rider did what VR did, he would be DSQ instantly no hesitation.
I'm still interested in WALKEN's idea of "fair" race director call ...
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 27, 2015, 08:59:15 PM
@Matty: so essentially you're saying VR is guilty and escaped a DSQ only because he's VR. That's bad.
And the reason it is bad is that, if Rossi does a wonderful job in Valencia and wins the title, Jorge will always be able to say "he should have been DSQ", and rightly so. As C.Fogarty said (and Stoner too, but OK, it's Stoner), if any other rider did what VR did, he would be DSQ instantly no hesitation.
I'm still interested in WALKEN's idea of "fair" race director call ...
MaX.
Very true, but he is the GOAT (which i didn't quite understand until recently:P) after all so Untouchable sadly. But then again, George is a whiny little B when it doesn't go his way in a fight, fair or not.
I just want to see two riders battling for the Moto GP world championship, not 2 Spaniards and an Italian having a bitch fit about it...
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 27, 2015, 08:59:15 PM
@Matty: so essentially you're saying VR is guilty and escaped a DSQ only because he's VR. That's bad.
Quote from: matty0l215 on October 27, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
Very true, but he is the GOAT
For me thats nonsense. Everybody should be treated the same and I think everybody would have been treated the same. As race direction best thing you can do is hold up all possibilities until you can make a sound decision based on as many facts as possible. If you have the possibility to hear the riders involved and to check all available camera angles then you should do it. You can still DQ a rider even after he finished the race. To be honest, when I saw the live pictures I also said to myself that Vale should be DQ'ed because it seemed obvious that he intentionally kicked MM with his foot. But after checking replay in slo-mo from various angles, it is obvious to me that he just wanted to squeeze MM off track in order to make a statement and to make MM run in the dirt and gain some time.
So race direction in my opinion was right to postpone any decisions until after race to have all possible sanctions available. I respect Stoner as a rider very much, but personally he is a whiner, so I don't give that much about what he says. Especially when it is directed at Vale which obviously he has never been very fond of. I think there were more objective comments by other former riders.
For me, the decision as it stands is pretty harsh but appropriate. Vale did not want MM to crash, but he condoned it as a possibility while running him off and that clearly is a no-go. With the decision as it stands, imo Vale does not have much of a chance to win the title now, so I think you cannot really say that Vale has an obvious bonus with the race direction. Marketing-wise a championship of Rossi holds a much better value than one of Jorge. So if race direction would have made a soft decision that would allow higher winning chances for Vale, I would have said that bad policies were involved, but not with the slim chances he has now. I actually think that race direction made a fair judgement.
(http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o663/Jejakalajang/MotoGPicture/1058775_20130410020250_zps7fe035b5.jpg) (http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/Jejakalajang/media/MotoGPicture/1058775_20130410020250_zps7fe035b5.jpg.html)
The feud is over - BETA 7 is out!
Quote from: Stout Johnson on October 27, 2015, 09:51:09 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 27, 2015, 08:59:15 PM
@Matty: so essentially you're saying VR is guilty and escaped a DSQ only because he's VR. That's bad.
Quote from: matty0l215 on October 27, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
Very true, but he is the GOAT
For me thats nonsense.
True :P
But then again, Rossi is the reason thousands watch moto gp and to kick him out or a championship fight would be the wrong "Financial" move for Dorna.
He currently has GOD status and will continue to till he retires or does something horrendously Idiotic.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on October 27, 2015, 09:57:02 PM
The feud is over - BETA 7 is out!
And yes, I'm done for now 8)
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 27, 2015, 08:10:14 PM
Quote from: WALKEN on October 27, 2015, 07:53:13 PM
I hope the entire field lets Rossi by without contest to show protest against such a stupid ruling.
Yeah, right. I'm sure Vale himself would be very proud of that ...
But out of curiosity, what would have been, in your opinon, an intelligent ruling in Sepang race ?
MaX.
I'm sure Rossi wouldn't be proud at all, neither "should" Jorge as the championship title has been tainted by Marquez...
If I was race director and had to make a call on this matter.
Marquez provoked Rossi and interfered in a championship runners title. Marquez should have been penalized for this. Rossi could have played the part of the bigger man and should have but he said F^&% it. That being said both riders should be penalized! But to send Rossi to the back of the grid at Valencia I believe is to harsh. Take the 3 points from Rossi and take points from Marc for interfering. Its out of respect that fellow riders allow title contenders to battle without unnecessary interference.
IMO, Rossi should have played Marc"s game and came in 4th, or followed him to allow everyone who believes otherwise to see the truth.
No one wins this year! That is one trophy to not be proud of no matter who wins it.
I got sick to my stomach when I watch Marc fall. But he antagonized it. As a man, Rossi should have allowed Marc to be a little C&^% and take it on the chin.
Its so obvious what happened if you watch the race live. Marc was like a over aggressive little fly buzzing around Rossi to ruin his momentum and title chance.
Again I stress no one wins in this championship this year as watching the last race is not something that will bring joy to anyone. If I feel bad for anyone I feel bad for Jorge.
And I must add- Sure Rossi gets better treatment because of his status. Is it right or wrong? You tell me? Do people in Rossi's position earn that special treatment or is it handed to them? Hard reality is, there is a pecking order in everything in life.
Quote from: matty0l215 on October 27, 2015, 07:57:09 PM
What about the Flying Duck?? (Iannone) He doesn't give a s**t who's at the front he'll just power through ;D
Well let me tell you, if I was race director I would have penalized that seagull for sure ;)
Quote from: WALKEN on October 27, 2015, 10:50:05 PM
I'm sure Rossi wouldn't be proud at all, neither "should" Jorge as the championship title has been tainted by Marquez...
If I was race director and had to make a call on this matter.
Marquez provoked Rossi and interfered in a championship runners title. Marquez should have been penalized for this. Rossi could have played the part of the bigger man and should have but he said F^&% it. That being said both riders should be penalized! But to send Rossi to the back of the grid at Valencia I believe is to harsh. Take the 3 points from Rossi and take points from Marc for interfering. Its out of respect that fellow riders allow title contenders to battle without unnecessary interference.
IMO, Rossi should have played Marc"s game and came in 4th, or followed him to allow everyone who believes otherwise to see the truth.
No one wins this year! That is one trophy to not be proud of no matter who wins it.
I got sick to my stomach when I watch Marc fall. But he antagonized it. As a man, Rossi should have allowed Marc to be a little C&^% and take it on the chin.
Its so obvious what happened if you watch the race live. Marc was like a over aggressive little fly buzzing around Rossi to ruin his momentum and title chance.
Again I stress no one wins in this championship this year as watching the last race is not something that will bring joy to anyone. If I feel bad for anyone I feel bad for Jorge.
So in the end we agree on almost everything.
But is it better for Rossi:
- to have a 7pts lead and start last (as it will be)
- or to have a 4pts lead and qualify normally (as it would be if race direction had only given him a 10sec penalty, making him 4th instead of 3rd in Sepang, as you're suggesting)
I think it's a closer call than it seems first sight ... with only a 4 pts lead, essentially Rossi would need to arrive before Lorenzo, assuming Jorge will finish 1st or 2nd. Note that in case of equal points, Lorenzo wins because of more wins.
With a 7pts lead, it's a whole different story ...
Quote from: WALKEN on October 27, 2015, 11:07:44 PM
Well let me tell you, if I was race director I would have penalized that seagull for sure ;)
Right: the seagull was not involved in the fight for the championship, he/she shuld have let all the riders pass without any obstruction :P
MaX.
There is a petition to save the champ, if Lorenzo wants to win must beat honestly Rossi.
Remove the penalty from Valentino Rossi and bring back integrity to the Championship (https://www.change.org/p/motogp-race-director-mike-webb-remove-the-penalty-from-valentino-rossi-and-bring-back-integrity-to-the-championship-2246013d-9c5a-44e9-b306-02c667fce09c)
Having thought more on this what Official Rule was applied in making Valentino's penalty? Contact?
Speaking about how the decision was made, Webb explained: 'We listened to both riders; our opinion was that there was some fault on both sides, but as far as the rulebook goes Marquez did not make any contact, did not break any rules as such, but we feel that his behaviour was causing problems to Rossi who reacted. Unfortunately he reacted in a way that is against the rules.'
Er it takes two to make a contact dunnit? And it was Marc who rode into Rossi if we are being black and white.
Good luck on the appeal I say - Rossi did not break any written rules "as such" did he?
Quote from: Napalm Nick on October 27, 2015, 11:14:14 PM
Having thought more on this what Official Rule was applied in making Valentino's penalty? Contact?
Intentionally leading the opponent towards the outside by taking a clearly unusual trajectory ?
I don't know how it is formulated in legalese, but translated it sounds as "pushing him intentionally out of the track (or trying to)". Usually it's enough for a DSQ.
MaX.
Quote from: WALKEN on October 27, 2015, 11:07:44 PM
Quote from: matty0l215 on October 27, 2015, 07:57:09 PM
What about the Flying Duck?? (Iannone) He doesn't give a s**t who's at the front he'll just power through ;D
Well let me tell you, if I was race director I would have penalized that seagull for sure ;)
I think he had a pretty harsh punisemt! He had his heart sold on ebay :o
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 27, 2015, 11:16:48 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on October 27, 2015, 11:14:14 PM
Having thought more on this what Official Rule was applied in making Valentino's penalty? Contact?
Intentionally leading the opponent towards the outside by taking a clearly unusual trajectory ?
I don't know how it is formulated in legalese, but translated it sounds as "pushing him intentionally out of the track (or trying to)". Usually it's enough for a DSQ.
MaX.
Ah yes..
'Deliberately running wide in a corner in order to try and force another rider off line. The result was a crash so it's irresponsible riding'
Irresponsible riding = 3 point penalty. Wonder where they got the back of the grid idea too then? Maybe RD has some frredom with the penalty decisions.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on October 27, 2015, 11:24:34 PM
Ah yes..
'Deliberately running wide in a corner in order to try and force another rider off line. The result was a crash so it's irresponsible riding'
Irresponsible riding = 3 point penalty. Wonder where they got the back of the grid idea too then? Maybe RD has some frredom with the penalty decisions.
3 points penalty is on the rider license (not championship points). As Rossi had already lost one point during this season, at 4 points lost you automatically start last in the next GP.
MaX.
Rossi was the cause of the crash because he rode in an unnatural way. Let's say that he would have outbraked himself, and ended up where he did, his trajectory still would have been different and Marquez would have a clear idea of how to react, meaning he could have easily gone under Rossi and be on his way before Rossi had the chance to get on the gas again. Now, since Rossi basically stopped, and looked at Marquez twice, and was riding "jerky" let's say, there was nothing natural about the event. Marc was not the one who slowed down first (well not obviously at least and not in that moment, the "Marc slowing down in other" places is still being debated), he essentially did nothing wrong from the rule book perspective. Rossi was the cause for them being in the situation in the first place.
If race direction would have deemed that he kicked Marc (which he did not), his penalty would have been more severe. I also do not believe that Marc crashed on purpose, he wanted to beat Rossi, to prove that he is better than him, and also, Honda and the sponsors would not have been overly happy if they figured out that he crashed on purpose (to force a disqualification on Rossi). The reason why race direction did not black flag him was that it was not obvious what had happened. Imagine, with one round left and the championship on the line, they decide that Rossi kicked Marc and then it turns out that he did not, race directions decision would have caused Rossi to leave with zero points and basically destroying the championship with a wrongfull (and non-retractable) decision. MotoGP (and Dorna) could not afford to take that risk, so they played the "safe card". The reason why Rossi only got 3 penalty points is because Hanika admitted to deliberately wanting to make another rider crash (and he did just that) and for that he received 5 penalty points. Since did not intend for Marc to actually crash (according to Vale at least) and race direction could not see any proof to contradict that, it would have been very strange to give Rossi the same punishment as Hanika. But since Rossi had one penalty point already (for getting in Jorge's way during qualifying at a previous round) he get's to start from the back of the grid.
I also think that Marc rode dirty, but he kept it within the rules, balancing on the edge, but still. Morally he should not have raced as he did for two reasons. 1. It was on the fifth lap. 2. He is out of the championship fight, Rossi is not. I don't think he let Lorenzo pass him on purpose, I think Marc made a mistake, Lorenzo went by and Marc could not keep up. He realized he would not win the race, and when he got the opportunity to F with Rossi, he took it. I also don't think that Rossi would have caught Jorge, even if Marc would not have interfered, but you never know. Even so, Marc never gave Rossi the opportunity to at least put pressure on Lorenzo.
In hindsight (a luxury exclusive to sofa-racers, pundits and journos - not racers), Rossi should have slowed down a lap (like 1sec/per lap) and let Marc go on. If Marc slows down after that it is obvious to everybody that he intentionally is trying to mess Rossi up. If he does not., 4th (and no penalty points) is still better for Rossi than the end result we have now. And if they would have continued to fight like they did, I don't think they would have finished the race.
Another hindsight: it would probably been better if for Rossi if he was black flagged after Marc had crashed. As it is now, my guess is that Jorge have to crash out in Valencia for Vale to take the title. Can't see that happening, unless somebody takes him out. If that would happen, I have a feeling that "somebody" will not be Marquez. But with all the craziness lately, who the F knows...
Quote from: davidboda46 on October 28, 2015, 12:15:07 AM
But since Rossi had one penalty point already (for getting in Jorge's way during qualifying at a previous round)
As if the "fans" remember this ... :)
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 27, 2015, 11:09:13 PM
Quote from: WALKEN on October 27, 2015, 10:50:05 PM
I'm sure Rossi wouldn't be proud at all, neither "should" Jorge as the championship title has been tainted by Marquez...
If I was race director and had to make a call on this matter.
Marquez provoked Rossi and interfered in a championship runners title. Marquez should have been penalized for this. Rossi could have played the part of the bigger man and should have but he said F^&% it. That being said both riders should be penalized! But to send Rossi to the back of the grid at Valencia I believe is to harsh. Take the 3 points from Rossi and take points from Marc for interfering. Its out of respect that fellow riders allow title contenders to battle without unnecessary interference.
IMO, Rossi should have played Marc"s game and came in 4th, or followed him to allow everyone who believes otherwise to see the truth.
No one wins this year! That is one trophy to not be proud of no matter who wins it.
I got sick to my stomach when I watch Marc fall. But he antagonized it. As a man, Rossi should have allowed Marc to be a little C&^% and take it on the chin.
Its so obvious what happened if you watch the race live. Marc was like a over aggressive little fly buzzing around Rossi to ruin his momentum and title chance.
Again I stress no one wins in this championship this year as watching the last race is not something that will bring joy to anyone. If I feel bad for anyone I feel bad for Jorge.
So in the end we agree on almost everything.
But is it better for Rossi:
- to have a 7pts lead and start last (as it will be)
- or to have a 4pts lead and qualify normally (as it would be if race direction had only given him a 10sec penalty, making him 4th instead of 3rd in Sepang, as you're suggesting)
I think it's a closer call than it seems first sight ... with only a 4 pts lead, essentially Rossi would need to arrive before Lorenzo, assuming Jorge will finish 1st or 2nd. Note that in case of equal points, Lorenzo wins because of more wins.
With a 7pts lead, it's a whole different story ...
Quote from: WALKEN on October 27, 2015, 11:07:44 PM
Well let me tell you, if I was race director I would have penalized that seagull for sure ;)
Right: the seagull was not involved in the fight for the championship, he/she shuld have let all the riders pass without any obstruction :P
MaX.
Max! I'm glad we are on the same page 8)
Quote from
Vyvyan Basterd - (Character)
from "The Young Ones"
No! No! NO! NO! We're not watching the bloody Moto GP! Bloody bloody bloody! I hate it! It's so bloody nice!
Jorge "Treacle" Lorenzo and Marc "Sugar-Flavored-Snot" Marquez! What do they do now? Chocolate bloody button ads, that's what! They're nothing but a couple of reactionary stereotypes, confirming the myth that everyone in Spain is a lovable, upper-class eccentric - and I - HATE - THEM!