Nothing more to say.
What a wanker.
My respect for Pedrosa has grown today. I liked him before, but now I really feel he is a great sportsperson with a great deal of integrity. Marquez for me now is one of the worst person around MotoGP. I liked him before, but he was a real disgrace today.
What a pity today's race. The whole season was one for the ages, but today's "race" was a disgraceful charade.
You can see the lies and fraude in his eyes during an interview. Lost all respect for him. Dani on the otherhand gained my respect troughout this season. Probably one of the most down to earth and relaxed riders on the grid currently...
yes, dani is a cool guy
Them delicious tears.
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 02:36:07 PM
Them delicious tears.
Great argument, i particularly liked how you put your heart into backing it up to give the rest of us an enjoying read.
Am I missing something guys???
I watched the race live, but to be honest I didn't see anything disgraceful in the race at all. Did something happen I didn't see??
Rossi had a great race and did a "valiant" job indeed; all that could be expected of him considering starting from the back of the grid.
Probably not a popular thing to say right now, but Lorenzo also rode a great race too considering the pressure Marquez and Dani had him under in the later stages of the race.
Must admit, my respect has also gone up for Dani. Sensible down to earth and nice guy! 8)
As I say..... Did I miss something? :-\
Hawk.
Quote from: JamoZ on November 08, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 02:36:07 PM
Them delicious tears.
Great argument, i particularly liked how you put your heart into backing it up to give the rest of us an enjoying read.
No problem mate. Arguing against the Lorenzo and Marquez haters is not possible so I just resort to answers like that.
No words...
A very bad race, i hope Rossi now decides to go in superbike.
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 02:50:01 PM
Am I missing something guys???
I watched the race live, but to be honest I didn't see anything disgraceful in the race at all. Did something happen I didn't see??
Rossi had a great race and did a "valiant" job indeed; all that could be expected of him considering starting from the back of the grid.
Probably not a popular thing to say right now, but Lorenzo also rode a great race too considering the pressure Marquez and Dani had him under in the later stages of the race.
Must admit, my respect has also gone up for Dani. Sensible down to earth and nice guy! 8)
As I say..... Did I miss something? :-\
Hawk.
Well mate, I do not want to pull you into any direction :) If you did not feel that anything was wrong that it is also fine. Marquez did not try to be Mr. Obvious, but it was very noticeable if you are familiar with his riding style...
Let me just give you a hint: Watch any other race from this season where Marquez was battling for a position and compare it to the laps he rode behind Lorenzo in today's race. You can clearly see that Marquez did not really push, you can tell by the body movements on the bike when changing lean, you can tell by the lack of trail braking into a corner. He was clearly just "cruising", except for the short time when Dani dared to try to make it an actual race by trying to overtake ::)
I am just glad that Pedrosa did not give a fiddler's fart and just tried to make it a race - good guy. Other honourable mentions: The Espargaro brothers and Smith, who did not care that Rossi was overtaking and actually gave Rossi a fight for the positions. Well and Lorenzo also did a good race on his part. Some few glances of actual motorsport today.
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 02:51:16 PMArguing against the Lorenzo and Marquez haters is not possible
Exactly, thanks!
Quote from: Blackheart on November 08, 2015, 02:59:27 PM
No words...
i hope Rossi now decides to go in superbike.
That..... or even better dissapearing from the racing scene ;) it would make a lot of MGP racers happy :)
So i could finally watch a complete MGP season without the usually crap/cheating going on.
BTW: Rossi got beaten on his own terrain today (which is good).... ask max biaggi, sete Gibernau, Casey Stoner, Jorge Lorenzo, and Marc Marquez.
He is friends in front of TV with everyone till....... they start beating him. ;)
Quote from: Aernouts2 on November 08, 2015, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: Blackheart on November 08, 2015, 02:59:27 PM
No words...
i hope Rossi now decides to go in superbike.
That..... or even better dissapearing from the racing scene ;) it would make a lot of MGP racers happy :)
So i could finally watch a complete MGP season without the usually crap/cheating going on.
BTW: Rossi got beaten on his own terrain today (which is good).... ask max biaggi, sete Gibernau, Casey Stoner, Jorge Lorenzo, and Marc Marquez.
He is friends in front of TV with everyone till....... they start beating him. ;)
Anyone here wants to throw some number at this guy? Remind him of some historic battles? Maybe tell him how many of those dudes got their asses handed to them? I just had a hot bath, i don`t have the energy to make a sarcastic and witty comment...
Quote from: Aernouts2 on November 08, 2015, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: Blackheart on November 08, 2015, 02:59:27 PM
No words...
i hope Rossi now decides to go in superbike.
That..... or even better dissapearing from the racing scene ;) it would make a lot of MGP racers happy :)
So i could finally watch a complete MGP season without the usually crap/cheating going on.
BTW: Rossi got beaten on his own terrain today (which is good).... ask max biaggi, sete Gibernau, Casey Stoner, Jorge Lorenzo, and Marc Marquez.
He is friends in front of TV with everyone till....... they start beating him. ;)
... Hater lv 9000 :o
Try to beat this comment ;D
By stopping Rossi get 10 it is one less championship for Marc to have to beat to be considered the next GOAT.
Maybe this is his motivation, a long term plan. Ruthless indeed but the history books will only remember the numbers.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 08, 2015, 03:04:30 PM
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 02:50:01 PM
Am I missing something guys???
I watched the race live, but to be honest I didn't see anything disgraceful in the race at all. Did something happen I didn't see??
Rossi had a great race and did a "valiant" job indeed; all that could be expected of him considering starting from the back of the grid.
Probably not a popular thing to say right now, but Lorenzo also rode a great race too considering the pressure Marquez and Dani had him under in the later stages of the race.
Must admit, my respect has also gone up for Dani. Sensible down to earth and nice guy! 8)
As I say..... Did I miss something? :-\
Hawk.
Well mate, I do not want to pull you into any direction :) If you did not feel that anything was wrong that it is also fine. Marquez did not try to be Mr. Obvious, but it was very noticeable if you are familiar with his riding style...
Let me just give you a hint: Watch any other race from this season where Marquez was battling for a position and compare it to the laps he rode behind Lorenzo in today's race. You can clearly see that Marquez did not really push, you can tell by the body movements on the bike when changing lean, you can tell by the lack of trail braking into a corner. He was clearly just "cruising", except for the short time when Dani dared to try to make it an actual race by trying to overtake ::)
I am just glad that Pedrosa did not give a fiddler's fart and just tried to make it a race - good guy. Other honourable mentions: The Espargaro brothers and Smith, who did not care that Rossi was overtaking and actually gave Rossi a fight for the positions. Well and Lorenzo also did a good race on his part. Some few glances of actual motorsport today.
Well you could well be right, but let's face it - What rider would really be willing to make a risky manoeuvre overtaking Lorenzo with the great possibility of taking him out in the process when Lorenzo is in front of his home crowd riding for the championship?
On top of that, a Spaniard taking another Spaniard out in front of their home crowd? Overtaking in a risky situation just ain't gonna happen under those circumstances.
Don't get me wrong.... I think if Marquez could've passed Lorenzo without too much risk then he maybe would've. But I don't think Dani would've risked it either to be honest?
I think the only chance we had of someone who'd be willing to take risks to overtake Lorenzo was Rossi, but obviously he didn't have much chance to get into contention to do that starting from the back of the grid. So lets' face it - the race was always going to be ridden in that sort of way given what was at stake and the fact that both Dani and Marquez are fellow Spaniards. I mean can you imagine the deep crap they would've had to endure if they had knocked Lorenzo off? I'm sure you can. :)
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 03:51:00 PMI think if Marquez could've passed Lorenzo without too much risk then he maybe would've. But I don't think Dani would've risked it either to be honest?
no
Marquez could have flown past Lorenzo in the first and middle sector (and last corner). He was nowhere near the (or his) limit. This was totally obvious.
Dani saved his tyres to have a go of getting the win for his team at the end (which he would have been able to do based on the lap times and Lorenzo's rear tyre), only to be blocked by his teammate.
Quote from: vin97 on November 08, 2015, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 03:51:00 PMI think if Marquez could've passed Lorenzo without too much risk then he maybe would've. But I don't think Dani would've risked it either to be honest?
no
Marquez could have flown past Lorenzo in the first and middle sector (and last corner). He was nowhere near the (or his) limit. This was totally obvious.
Dani saved his tyres to have a go of getting the win for his team at the end (which he would have been able to based on the lap times and Lorenzo's rear tyre), only to be blocked by his teammate.
+1000 ;)
Quote from: vin97 on November 08, 2015, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 03:51:00 PMI think if Marquez could've passed Lorenzo without too much risk then he maybe would've. But I don't think Dani would've risked it either to be honest?
no
Marquez could have flown past Lorenzo in the first and middle sector (and last corner). He was nowhere near the (or his) limit. This was totally obvious.
Dani saved his tyres to have a go of getting the win for his team at the end (which he would have been able to based on the lap times and Lorenzo's rear tyre), only to be blocked by his teammate.
So simply put, sad but true, and all because Marquez is still a kiddy on the school playing ground, where as Danni and Vale are grown ups. Marquez thought he was being clever, but karma is a bitch, he now has to face the WORLDS knowledge of his lack of sportsmanship.
i also belive he could pass him but dont tell me easy pass since they were riding 1.31 high 1.32 low at the end.... :P anyway marquez did what rossi asked him to do sadly , dont mess with the champions contenders :P
Quote from: doubledragoncc on November 08, 2015, 04:11:07 PM
Quote from: vin97 on November 08, 2015, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 03:51:00 PMI think if Marquez could've passed Lorenzo without too much risk then he maybe would've. But I don't think Dani would've risked it either to be honest?
no
Marquez could have flown past Lorenzo in the first and middle sector (and last corner). He was nowhere near the (or his) limit. This was totally obvious.
Dani saved his tyres to have a go of getting the win for his team at the end (which he would have been able to based on the lap times and Lorenzo's rear tyre), only to be blocked by his teammate.
So simply put, sad but true, and all because Marquez is still a kiddy on the school playing ground, where as Danni and Vale are grown ups. Marquez thought he was being clever, but karma is a bitch, he now has to face the WORLDS knowledge of his lack of sportsmanship.
Grown ups don;t kick other riders.
[/quote]Grown ups don;t kick other riders.
[/quote]
+1
As i said he has been beaten with his own (disgusting) behaviour..... Finally.. ;)
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 04:28:28 PM
Grown ups don;t kick other riders.
:o It already been clarified by every single person in the MotoGP there has never been a kick ... Use your brain is useful sometimes. :)
You are seriously still talking about 'the (no-look-)kick'? ???
Get your glasses and watch the slow-mos again.
.....Not that it even matters here.
kick or no kick he deserved way more penalisation for that action...
Quote from: Blackheart on November 08, 2015, 04:57:43 PM
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 04:28:28 PM
Grown ups don;t kick other riders.
:o It already been clarified by every single person in the MotoGP there has never been a kick ... Use your brain is useful sometimes. :)
Then why was Rossi punished?
WTF?
QuoteFIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix
Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix – Decision of the Race Direction
On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.
lol
sorry mate but that was a fail
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 05:08:43 PM
Quote from: Blackheart on November 08, 2015, 04:57:43 PM
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 04:28:28 PM
Grown ups don;t kick other riders.
:o It already been clarified by every single person in the MotoGP there has never been a kick ... Use your brain is useful sometimes. :)
Then why was Rossi punished?
His punishment was very poor anyway.
But he did knock down Marc for sure ;D (look at ever angle/video you can find on the internet).
Hehe.. ::) its so obvious its hard to ignore,,,, but ofcourse some peeps see different things.... good luck with that :-X
ok, whatever you wish.
unfortunatly i have to dissapoint you guys...
Its not a fake account (sorry) i just had to make a new account after a upgraded to Win 10. :-[
The reason why i am not posting that much is..
1. I am very busy during the week.
2. Well to bad but...I used to be a Bike games modder (no time left for me ATM) some peeps on her probably stil know me.
3. I do come on this forum because i do like racing (bike) games.. too bad GP bikes never realy took off :(.
So thats it.. peeps.. you can fire at me now (if you like) no fake account :) :-X lol
P.S
Blackheart + VIN 97
Pff no fake account hmmm ???
I've always been a big fan of Rossi, but a great champion like he, should not make such statements he has made.
A champion like he, should accept defeat and not to have a fit and whine like a child and prove he is still a champion in race next year, if he can.
I repeat that I have always been a fan of Rossi and I think with this behavior the only think he got is to fall down like Myth and all this hate to Marquez is simply because he knows he is the one who has dethroned him and he is the new Myth.
Quote from: jemaro on November 08, 2015, 06:24:35 PM
I've always been a big fan of Rossi, but a great champion like he, should not make such statements he has made.
A champion like he, should accept defeat and not to have a fit and whine like a child and prove he is still a champion in race next year, if he can.
I repeat that I have always been a fan of Rossi and I think with this behavior the only think he got is to fall down like Myth and all this hate to Marquez is simply because he knows he is the one who has dethroned him and he is the new Myth.
Dethroned? Lmfao...2 championships in the premier class, and countless crashes this season. Both Lorenzo & Marquez need a whole lot more victories and numerous championships to even think about dethroning anyone, not to mention being a living legend/myth. Besides that it`s a big question if both those riders are capable of doing the same at the age of 36, or they`ll just end up in the list of riders who battled against Rossi together with names as Biaggi, Stoner, Gibernau etc etc.
Quote from: JamoZ on November 08, 2015, 06:58:11 PM
Quote from: jemaro on November 08, 2015, 06:24:35 PM
I've always been a big fan of Rossi, but a great champion like he, should not make such statements he has made.
A champion like he, should accept defeat and not to have a fit and whine like a child and prove he is still a champion in race next year, if he can.
I repeat that I have always been a fan of Rossi and I think with this behavior the only think he got is to fall down like Myth and all this hate to Marquez is simply because he knows he is the one who has dethroned him and he is the new Myth.
Dethroned? Lmfao...2 championships in the premier class, and countless crashes this season. Both Lorenzo & Marquez need a whole lot more victories and numerous championships to even think about dethroning anyone, not to mention being a living legend/myth. Besides that it`s a big question if both those riders are capable of doing the same at the age of 36, or they`ll just end up in the list of riders who battled against Rossi together with names as Biaggi, Stoner, Gibernau etc etc.
@ JamoZ
Thats a very poor comment :-[ (And i think you know it)........ :-\
Quote from: Aernouts2 on November 08, 2015, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: JamoZ on November 08, 2015, 06:58:11 PM
Quote from: jemaro on November 08, 2015, 06:24:35 PM
I've always been a big fan of Rossi, but a great champion like he, should not make such statements he has made.
A champion like he, should accept defeat and not to have a fit and whine like a child and prove he is still a champion in race next year, if he can.
I repeat that I have always been a fan of Rossi and I think with this behavior the only think he got is to fall down like Myth and all this hate to Marquez is simply because he knows he is the one who has dethroned him and he is the new Myth.
Dethroned? Lmfao...2 championships in the premier class, and countless crashes this season. Both Lorenzo & Marquez need a whole lot more victories and numerous championships to even think about dethroning anyone, not to mention being a living legend/myth. Besides that it`s a big question if both those riders are capable of doing the same at the age of 36, or they`ll just end up in the list of riders who battled against Rossi together with names as Biaggi, Stoner, Gibernau etc etc.
@ JamoZ
Thats a very poor comment :-[ (And i think you know it)........ :-\
Care to elaborate why? If anythings a poor comment, it`s criticising someone without stating your reason.
Let us not make this a Marquez- or Ross-Fanboy discussion. If so, we could just make a poll on who you are rooting for and then that would be it. I would rather like to discuss facts or at least objective things.
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 03:51:00 PM
Well you could well be right, but let's face it - What rider would really be willing to make a risky manoeuvre overtaking Lorenzo with the great possibility of taking him out in the process when Lorenzo is in front of his home crowd riding for the championship?
On top of that, a Spaniard taking another Spaniard out in front of their home crowd? Overtaking in a risky situation just ain't gonna happen under those circumstances.
Don't get me wrong.... I think if Marquez could've passed Lorenzo without too much risk then he maybe would've. But I don't think Dani would've risked it either to be honest?
To be honest, within the last couple of laps Lorenzo's tyres seemed to be wasting away rather fast, it can also be seen in the lap times. Marquez could have overtaken rather easily. Especially when braking into corner 6 it was pretty obvious for me, he could have braked towards the inside and surpass Lorenzo without much risk. You could see Marquez brake early there towards the end. It still is a race for god's sake. You do not want to make high risk moves, but if you are clearly faster, you should get by and not park yourself behind someone. He did not even attempt one friggin overtake! He did like 3 risky overtakes on Rossi in 1 lap in Sepang. ::)
And not risk much because Lorenzo could lose his championship if anything goes wrong?! In Sepang Rossi was also fighting for his championship (and it counted very much for him since he knew that Lorenzo generally is faster at Valencia) and there Marquez battled like he was fighting for the championship. He could have basically ended Rossi's championship hopes right there, if both would have crashed in that fight. Marquez later claimed it was a normal race for him and he was riding his race. 2 weeks later in Valencia all of a sudden the championship fight is holy and he does not want to be part of it by possibly overtaking Lorenzo?! That does not make any sense whatsoever.
I am fine with riders that only do their race. I am also fine with riders that do not want to be involved and are rather passive in regards to battles with championship contenders in the decisive races. But it is just unacceptable to have riders that fight to the maximum with one rider but just wave the white flag at others. That is just double standards. Pedrosa showed how it should be done. He did not give a fiddler's fart in Sepang nor in Valencia.
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 03:51:00 PM
But I don't think Dani would've risked it either to be honest?
Pretty sure he would. Otherwise it would not have made sense to push that much just to try and fight with his teammate. He had been on the roll lately and he was eager for the win imo.
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 03:51:00 PM
the race was always going to be ridden in that sort of way given what was at stake and the fact that both Dani and Marquez are fellow Spaniards. I mean can you imagine the deep crap they would've had to endure if they had knocked Lorenzo off? I'm sure you can. :)
As I said earlier, Rossi was desperately fighting for the championship in Sepang given his historical struggles in Valencia. And still Marquez did not care whether he would be possibly crashing with Rossi and basically ending his championship hopes right there.
Like Stout, I think too that marc today hold it back a fair bit, at least at race end (during the first part I've seen him work quite hard to keep jorge's pace).
But after the events in sepang, could you really expect marc to go out and beat jorge just to (risk to) hand the title to vale ? No way in hell.
In the end of the season jorge was in better shape than vale: the only way for vale to win was to hope in rain, jorge's mistakes and help from dani and marc.
Rain and jorge mistake happened, and some help from the hondas too, so vale was ahead: but the moment you accuse marc as vale did, you can expect he will stop helping you. As a very minimum.
Rossi needed marc as an ally, not as an enemy: he shoot his own foot in sepang press conf. He gave marc one extra reason (after assen and argentina) to be mad at him.
I do hope Rossi stays in motogp, as he has shown to be still on the edge of it. But I don't see how he can stay in yamaha though, assuming jorge stays there.
Honda ? No way, of course. Which leaves him with Suzuki and Ducati: both would be very interesting, but I'm not sure they are able to put on the table the money vale wants.
He's never been an easy one to deal with money-wise, but maybe this time he'd make an exception ...
Anyway, the whole thing leaves a bad after-taste, at last to me, but that was already a certainty, no matter the result in valencia.
Quote from: HornetMaX
But after the events in sepang, could you really expect marc to go out and beat jorge just to (risk to) hand the title to vale ? No way in hell.
There is two ways to look at it imo. The one you explained and taken by Marquez is one, but for me one of an immature child (brain-quote from Marquez ;)): "You wrongly accused me of helping Lorenzo in Phillip Island?! So I am gonna unsportsmanlike help the other guy win the championship, see how that feels, huh?! What the world will think of me? They will see I am an unfair prick - well I do not care as long as you do not win the championship, because you made a provocant statement after Australia." ::) That just is so lame. He should have raced Dani-style without giving a fuck. Then Rossi would have had to eat his own words and Rossi would have looked like an old guy losing his cool under pressure with his statements after the not-so-perfect-race in Australia. He would have looked like the cool champ he looked like the last 2 seasons.
Now with his career in front of him, he will forever be remembered as the prick that ruined one of the best seasons ever.
Quote from: HornetMaX
In the end of the season jorge was in better shape than vale: the only way for vale to win was to hope in rain, jorge's mistakes and help from dani and marc.
Rain and jorge mistake happened, and some help from the hondas too, so vale was ahead: but the moment you accuse marc as vale did, you can expect he will stop helping you. As a very minimum.
That is not really a fair picture. Rossi had a great season overall, very constant. And that is what the championship is all about, being constantly fast. It is true that the chaotic races, the races in rain where the ones where he was shining the most. But tbh, that is EXACTLY what a complete rider should be able to master and should be called a true champion in the end. If it was only about speed, then yes Lorenzo has the edge. But then we could also just make 10lap long runs in perfect weather and let the championship be decided in that way. I rather prefer the kind of races we mostly had this year. But that is my humble opinion.
Quote from: HornetMaX
Rossi needed marc as an ally, not as an enemy: he shoot his own foot in sepang press conf. He gave marc one extra reason (after assen and argentina) to be mad at him.
True. I think he just miscalculated how Marquez would react. (Maybe the intention was not so stupid from the get-go, because who would have believed that Marquez would willingly and publicly destroy his own name by blatantly trying to destroy Rossi's championship.) Either way, it did backfire in the end for Rossi. :/
Quote from: HornetMaX
I do hope Rossi stays in motogp, as he has shown to be still on the edge of it. But I don't see how he can stay in yamaha though, assuming jorge stays there.
Honda ? No way, of course. Which leaves him with Suzuki and Ducati: both would be very interesting, but I'm not sure they are able to put on the table the money vale wants.
He's never been an easy one to deal with money-wise, but maybe this time he'd make an exception ...
I do not see why Rossi would not be able to be in a team with Lorenzo? ??? He did not have an issue with Lorenzo nor with Yamaha...
Now the entire sporting world (except Spain) talking about a combine...
It would be fair to remove all points of the last two races to Rossi, Lorenzo and Marquez... so would have the real winner.
(Remember the rumors on a "secret" agreement made in Andorra between Marquez and Lorenzo)
You're funny, Max.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 08, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
He should have raced Dani style without giving a fuck. Then Rossi would have had to eat his own words at Rossi would have looked like an old guy losing his cool with his statements under pressure after the not so perfect race in Australia. He would have looked like the cool champ he looked like the last 2 seasons.
Yeah but in doing so, Rossi may have ended up with the title. To be honest, I think that this option wouldn't have been any better for motogp: a rider accuses another of something, then pushes him out of a race and in the end he wins the title because the very rider he accused (and pushed out) hands him the victory. It would have been the most embarrassing win ever.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 08, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
Now with his career in front of him, he will forever be remembered as the prick that ruined one of the best seasons ever.
With the help of Rossi. It takes two to tango. They're both in it, equally.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 08, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
That is not really a fair picture. Rossi had a great season overall, very constant.
I didn't say he hadn't, he obviously had, he deserved all his points.
But in the last part of the season he was slower and he knew it, so his plan was to lose as few points as possible and hope hondas will steal a few from jorge.
In that optic, accusing marc is a bad call.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 08, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
I do not see why Rossi would not be able to be in a team with Lorenzo? ??? He did not have an issue with Lorenzo nor with Yamaha...
Really ? Vale just declared that the whole race has been a giant "biscotto" (meaning it was fixed between jorge and marc). And there's also the past clash between the two.
Anyway, if it's OK for him and for Yam to stay, then let be it: the bike is not too bad :)
Quote from: vin97 on November 08, 2015, 09:04:52 PM
You're funny, Max.
Thanks !
Nice logic there again, Max!
As if it could get any more embarrassing than what happened today ::)
edit: backed up by dorna boss (maximum shame activated): http://tv.liberoquotidiano.it/video/11846406/MotoGp--Valentino-Rossi-a-Carmelo.html
Also nice definition of "equally", Max!
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 09:12:26 PMReally ? Vale just declared that the whole race has been a giant "biscotto" (meaning it was fixed between jorge and marc)
Confirmed by Lorenzo btw. (https://twitter.com/filippomricci/status/663366348064563201)
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 09:12:26 PMbla bla bla...
(http://www.katoninetales.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Triple-Facepalm-Star-Trek.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kmANfX5.jpg)
lolololol
Rossi must be happy with such dedicated fans defending his honor on the internet ;D
I personally don't care that much about who wins, I just want to see a good race and got that today.
yeah, good thing the camera kept focussing on that epic battle at the front......
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 10:30:32 PM
I personally don't care that much about who wins, I just want to see a good race and got that today.
Indeed -
Danny Kent WIN! ;D
"Iam verri appi"
Quote from: vin97 on November 08, 2015, 10:35:14 PM
yeah, good thing the camera kept focussing on that epic battle at the front......
Yeah it was a real nailbiter to see if Dani would pass Marc and Jorge. :)
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 10:30:32 PM
Rossi must be happy with such dedicated fans defending his honor on the internet ;D
I personally don't care that much about who wins, I just want to see a good race and got that today.
Amazing race... 30 laps in the same positions for the three "top riders" in the final champ race :o
@Nick ;D
Quote from: Napalm Nick on November 08, 2015, 10:36:27 PM
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 10:30:32 PM
I personally don't care that much about who wins, I just want to see a good race and got that today.
Indeed - Danny Kent WIN! ;D
"Iam verri appi"
+1000 Nick! ;D
Not an impressive race, but did the job he needed to do..... Hope to see him in the Moto 2 class next season? Then onto the elite MotoGP class! ;D
The next Barry Sheene? I hope so! It is about time too! ;D ;D 8)
Hawk.
PS: I'm glad your being positive around here Nick..... I was beginning to get depressed reading all these posts here! Lol ;D
just found this pic :D :D
(http://i.imgur.com/wavvIfC.jpg)
Quote from: Aernouts2 on November 08, 2015, 06:11:02 PM
unfortunatly i have to dissapoint you guys...
Its not a fake account (sorry) i just had to make a new account after a upgraded to Win 10. :-[
The reason why i am not posting that much is..
1. I am very busy during the week.
2. Well to bad but...I used to be a Bike games modder (no time left for me ATM) some peeps on her probably stil know me.
3. I do come on this forum because i do like racing (bike) games.. too bad GP bikes never realy took off :(.
So thats it.. peeps.. you can fire at me now (if you like) no fake account :) :-X lol
P.S
Blackheart + VIN 97
Pff no fake account hmmm ???
REG right- Racing editing gaming.
Anyway, I'm glad Rossi didn't win as the championship was tainted by bad decisions on both sides. Rossi could have played the bigger role and just ignored the drama. I imagine after a year of fighting it can get to you and everyone has a point where they say enough is enough.
Rossi has nothing to prove. Can't wait for next season. Rossi on a Suzuki, imagine that? New tires, new season, Gooooooooooooooooo Rossi!!!!!!!!!!
yep! Lorenzo is champion! Yamaha should be happy with a 1-2 in the championship..
Roll on 2016..
Quote from: Guimengo on November 09, 2015, 12:16:48 AM
Also, am I the only one thinking Milestone really missed out by not having MotoGP 15 this year? ;D
err...maybe you missed it, but they did release MotoGP 15, a few months back, lol ;D
Quote from: Guimengo on November 09, 2015, 05:37:54 AM
Quote from: CapeDoctor on November 09, 2015, 04:18:22 AM
Quote from: Guimengo on November 09, 2015, 12:16:48 AM
Also, am I the only one thinking Milestone really missed out by not having MotoGP 15 this year? ;D
err...maybe you missed it, but they did release MotoGP 15, a few months back, lol ;D
Not in the Americas :P. Maybe only in Europe, even.
Maybe the Americas are the sensible ones and have banned Milestone! Hehe ;D
Hawk.
(http://i.imgur.com/QMa82NB.jpg)
it just keeps getting better and better :D
The Kardashians will be replaced by The Lorquez's this fall on BBC 4 ;D
(http://s12.postimg.org/5ad2u68al/Lorquez.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
foto upload (http://postimage.org/index.php?lang=german)
haha nice one
All the homophobic photoshopped pictures won't change the fact that your angelic god who cannot do wrong didn't win the championship.
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 09, 2015, 08:13:07 AM
All the homophobic photoshopped pictures won't change the fact that your angelic god who cannot do wrong didn't win the championship.
You must be really fun at parties....
Quote from: JamoZ on November 09, 2015, 10:19:39 AM
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 09, 2015, 08:13:07 AM
All the homophobic photoshopped pictures won't change the fact that your angelic god who cannot do wrong didn't win the championship.
You must be really fun at parties....
I am thanks. ;D
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 10:55:31 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on November 08, 2015, 10:36:27 PM
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 08, 2015, 10:30:32 PM
I personally don't care that much about who wins, I just want to see a good race and got that today.
Indeed - Danny Kent WIN! ;D
"Iam verri appi"
+1000 Nick! ;D
Not an impressive race, but did the job he needed to do..... Hope to see him in the Moto 2 class next season? Then onto the elite MotoGP class! ;D
The next Barry Sheene? I hope so! It is about time too! ;D ;D 8)
Hawk.
PS: I'm glad your being positive around here Nick..... I was beginning to get depressed reading all these posts here! Lol ;D
Yeh sorry its a bit Off Topic but I watched Sheene win our last World Championship in 1977 so this is a big deal for us, totally overshadowed by the embarrassing shameful soap opera in MotoGP.
https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/11/09/2015_valencia_sunday_motogp_round_up_how.html
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 09, 2015, 01:09:08 PM
https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/11/09/2015_valencia_sunday_motogp_round_up_how.html
I swear I didn't write that article.
But wait ... it has been written by another David !! I see a pattern here ...
Hehe too many words for me.
I lost interest after the Danny Kent paragraphs, which was the best bit anyway ;D
Quote from: Napalm Nick on November 09, 2015, 01:31:24 PM
Hehe too many words for me.
I lost interest after the Danny Kent paragraphs, which was the best bit anyway ;D
You shouldn't have had, don't do like people getting their facts from twitter, facebook and italian tv ...
It's a bit wordy, true, but it's the best sum-up I've read to date (waiting for our own david to complete his own).
Of course, many will just decide to skip reading it and stick to their own "facts". Not sure the reference to the Occam's razor will change that :)
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 09, 2015, 01:37:45 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on November 09, 2015, 01:31:24 PM
Hehe too many words for me.
I lost interest after the Danny Kent paragraphs, which was the best bit anyway ;D
You shouldn't have had, don't do like people getting their facts from twitter, facebook and italian tv ...
It's a bit wordy, true, but it's the best sum-up I've read to date (waiting for our own david to complete his own).
Hehee! I don't do any other Social Media. I get all my facts about all aspects of life from this forum. My blood buddies.
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 09, 2015, 08:13:07 AM
All the homophobic photoshopped pictures won't change the fact that your angelic god who cannot do wrong didn't win the championship.
1) You don't know me, how dare you call me anything other then my name.
2) You don't know me, and what or who I consider to be GOD is none of your F%$KING business.
3) You don't know me and based on that alone I'd say "You forget yourself sir".
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 09, 2015, 01:37:45 PMtheir own "facts"
There's no such thing, Max.
And it doesn't get more objective than lap time graphs.
Quote from: Hawk on November 08, 2015, 02:50:01 PM
Am I missing something guys???
I watched the race live, but to be honest I didn't see anything disgraceful in the race at all. Did something happen I didn't see??
Rossi had a great race and did a "valiant" job indeed; all that could be expected of him considering starting from the back of the grid.
Probably not a popular thing to say right now, but Lorenzo also rode a great race too considering the pressure Marquez and Dani had him under in the later stages of the race.
Must admit, my respect has also gone up for Dani. Sensible down to earth and nice guy! 8)
As I say..... Did I miss something? :-\
Hawk.
Hahahahahahaaaaa.......sorry but.....Waaaw !!!!!
Quote from: vin97 on November 09, 2015, 05:58:38 PM
And it doesn't get more objective than lap time graphs.
Show them then. Because the ones I've seen from Sepang and Valencia all show vale being slower than jorge when the track was clear for both.
It's hard to win when you're slower, even for the GOAT (not being ironic here, I do believe he's the GOAT).
This is the first time I've seen this thread and I've just finished watching the race...
Firtslty, great work by Vale. Not many people could have got that far, shame he couldn't go further. :-\
Excelent push by Dani. Like most others, i now have more respect for him. Will be keeping an eye on him (fave Honda now :P)
Good race by Lorenzo, he held his place and won, can't take that away from him but...
Marquze didn't race today, he turned up with only one purpose. Which was just not cricket, if your not going to play along then bugger off somewhere else. Nothing more to say.
Props to Crutchlow as well, Brilliant race by him.
Okay, my two bits on this topic but first I would like to say sorry to Boerenlater for
my unkind words. We all have the right to our opinions. I will say this, "If you are going to be
the PC POLICE Boerenlater remove the sexy girl profile pic. LOL!
Now as I watched the race I loved how Rossi shot off the line and made his way to the front. I
was really worried that he may have overcooked his wheels but cool that he tried to catch up.
Kudos to him for that. What I did not like is how Marc never took the usual risk of trying to
overtake Jorge at any point in the race, he had nothing to lose and I think it would have made for a
better race all around and givin Dani a chance to maybe launch his attack a bit earlier on because
of the battle at the front. So I can not help but wonder WTF was going on, he never even showed
him a front wheel. This all seems a little suspect to me because the Honda has a lot of power and
it just looked like he was only following J-Lo and not putting any real pressure on him. I am very happy
for Dani 26 as he really stepped up his game the last few races but I was also thinking he has never won
the big prize for Honda or himself and always the Brides Maid has got to suck a little so way does Honda
keep him on when there is so much other talent looking for a factory ride?
I must admit this was a hard race to watch and not because I'm a Rossi Fan Boy (I been following the sport
for over 23 years and Rossi has been there for most of it) but it really put a bad taste in my mouth to see
the fastest guys on track take a Sunday Drive in a all or nothing race for the pair of them. One with nothing to
lose and the other with all to lose and not even an attempt at and overtake makes me sad. A bloody f%$kin shame.
Don't really know how Rossi is relevant in this laptime disussion but go two pages back to see the top-3 lap times from the Valencia race.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 09, 2015, 09:28:00 PM
Quote from: vin97 on November 09, 2015, 05:58:38 PM
And it doesn't get more objective than lap time graphs.
Show them then. Because the ones I've seen from Sepang and Valencia all show vale being slower than jorge when the track was clear for both.
It's hard to win when you're slower, even for the GOAT (not being ironic here, I do believe he's the GOAT).
Normally I value your opinion very high MaX and discussions with you here in the forum have been a good exchange of well founded arguments. But on the topic on Rossi/Marquez I often just do not get your arguments and I am inclined to think you are not expressing a well-founded opinion but rather expressing very subjective feelings of yours.
You are arguing that Rossi did not deserve to be the champion because he was slower than Lorenzo in Sepang and Valencia?! For one: Rossi was pretty fast the whole year in the races, in some races Rossi was faster, in some Lorenzo was faster. If Rossi happened to be slower in Sepang and Valencia then ... so whaaat?! ??? He still would have had the (very likely) chance to be the
very deserving champion if Marquez would not have decided to be the deciding factor. It is just non-sense to say that Lorenzo was more deserving because he was faster than Rossi in the last two races. It is the same non-sense as someone saying Rossi was more deserving because he was faster in the first two races...
And, although it does not matter for this discussion, Rossi's laptimes in Sepang and Valencia do not necessarily mean, he would not have been able to go a different pace if the races would have been held under different circumstances. But I am not even discussing this, since it does not matter one bit in terms of the question whether Marquez was playing a foul game and pretty much ruining the whole championship.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 08, 2015, 08:05:41 PM
In the end of the season jorge was in better shape than vale: the only way for vale to win was to hope in rain, jorge's mistakes and help from dani and marc.
Rossi did not need any help. He just needed everyone to focus on his own race and mind his own bloody business. Just like Pedrosa tried to do.
Just for the facts: COTA, Jerez, Mugello, Sachsenring, Misano, Brno, Motegi, Phillip Island and Sepang were races where Lorenzo received "help" (in your words) from riders who were doing nothing but doing their normal race and minding their own business and taking points off from Rossi. In my book that is not help, but just normal racing. And that is what should have been expected from Marquez in Valencia too.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 09, 2015, 11:17:08 PM
Normally I value your opinion very high MaX and discussions with you here in the forum have been a good exchange of well founded arguments. But on the topic on Rossi/Marquez I often just do not get your arguments and I am inclined to think you are not expressing a well-founded opinion but rather expressing very subjective feelings of yours.
Same for me, concerning your opinion.
My subjective feelings are in line with plenty others (have you read this? Seriously, it's worth every character: https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/11/09/2015_valencia_sunday_motogp_round_up_how.html (https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/11/09/2015_valencia_sunday_motogp_round_up_how.html)).
Except that as soon as one express something along these lines, he is immeditaly swamped under a truckload of insults from the "true fans" of motogp.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 09, 2015, 11:17:08 PM
You are arguing that Rossi did not deserve to be the champion because he was slower than Lorenzo in Sepang and Valencia?!
I'm not saying he deserved it less (or more) than jorge. To me, before this big mess, they equally deserved it (and maybe vale a bit more, as he was leading, after all).
I clearly said before valencia that for me, this year, there were no winners. Period. It's not a matter of who deserves it more, not to me at least.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 09, 2015, 11:17:08 PM
For one: Rossi was pretty fast the whole year in the races, in some races Rossi was faster, in some Lorenzo was faster. If Rossi happened to be slower in Sepang and Valencia then ... so whaaat?! ??? He still would have had the (very likely) chance to be the very deserving champion if Marquez would not have decided to be the deciding factor. It is just non-sense to say that Lorenzo was more deserving because he was faster than Rossi in the last two races. It is the same non-sense as someone saying Rossi was more deserving because he was faster in the first two races...
And is the same non-sense as saying marquez decided it all. Quote from the mentioned article:
"Did Marc Márquez cost Valentino Rossi his tenth world title? This we can be a little more certain of: blaming Márquez is as valid as blaming Andrea Iannone for Phillip Island, or Rossi himself for a misjudgment at Misano where he stayed out too long, or Andrea Dovizioso for being faster at Austin, or Iannone at Mugello, or Pedrosa at Aragon. All of those riders interfered with the championship, just as all the riders who let Rossi past at Valencia interfered with the championship. It is an entirely simplistic and narrow view of what a MotoGP championship is."
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 09, 2015, 11:17:08 PM
And, although it does not matter for this discussion, Rossi's laptimes in Sepang and Valencia do not necessarily mean, he would not have been able to go a different pace if the races would have been held under different circumstances. But I am not even discussing this, since it does not matter one bit in terms of the question whether Marquez was playing a foul game and pretty much ruining the whole championship.
The fact marquez was playing foul I can agree with, no problem. I don't share some of the explanations (the spanish alliance ?!) or the magnitude of his faults, but it's clear that he did something wrong. So what ? We should take away a deserved penalty to rossi because of that ? Should we give rossi the title ?
Notice that nobody was asking for a penalty for marquez: people were asking for grace for rossi. It's not the same thing.
The "I can't go past marc, even if I'm faster than him" is non-sense and I'm fairly surprised you buy it. Essentially you're saying that 2 riders battling for 1st place will always end up in a dogfight even if one is much faster than the other. That's not true, we've seen it plenty of times, in any year. You can read an entire paragraph dedicated to that in the article by David Emmet posted by Boerenlate: it's not just me saying so. Marquez was able to fight vale because marquez was at least as fast as vale (if not faster).
Rossi, thanks to his huge (and deserved) popularity, benefits from a "capital of sympathy" that allows him to come out of this whole thing as if he did nothing wrong and is 100% victim of others. This is simply not true.
His whole argument is "If hondas helped me in taking points away from lorenzo, and if all the other riders kept away from me, and if I was able to lap 0.5s/lap faster then what I did in reality, then I'd have won". Too many bad ifs for me. But it surely works if the goal is to convince facebook and twitter fans.
He should just forget what happened n the last 3 races, shut his mouth for 4 months, and come back next year and show on the track what he can do. Not to the journos or the tvs.
And yes, jorge is a whiner: bloody fast, but still a whiner.
stout, es gibt schon nen grund warum ich mich ausnahmsweise mal nicht auf eine ausartende diskussion mit max einlasse.....
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 01:15:10 AM
Same for me, concerning your opinion.
Ok for me. But I can really say that I try to stay to facts, and I also try to answer directly to what you are writing. Whereas, you (in your very long answer) seemed to mix things which I said, with different sources... many things from Rossi-fans (which in general are not very objective either) and twitter/facebook posts, which do not resemble my opinion. I therefore do not feel the urgency to reply to things that I did not say.
In the following I will answer to the few things you were saying directly to my remarks:
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 01:15:10 AM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 09, 2015, 11:17:08 PM
You are arguing that Rossi did not deserve to be the champion because he was slower than Lorenzo in Sepang and Valencia?!
I'm not saying he deserved it less (or more) than jorge. To me, before this big mess, they equally deserved it (and maybe vale a bit more, as he was leading, after all).
I clearly said before valencia that for me, this year, there were no winners. Period. It's not a matter of who deserves it more, not to me at least.
Then I do not get your remark concerning the lap times and that Lorenzo was faster in the last 2 races. What were you aiming at then with your comments?
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 01:15:10 AM
Quote from the mentioned article:
"Did Marc Márquez cost Valentino Rossi his tenth world title? This we can be a little more certain of: blaming Márquez is as valid as blaming Andrea Iannone for Phillip Island, or Rossi himself for a misjudgment at Misano where he stayed out too long, or Andrea Dovizioso for being faster at Austin, or Iannone at Mugello, or Pedrosa at Aragon. All of those riders interfered with the championship, just as all the riders who let Rossi past at Valencia interfered with the championship. It is an entirely simplistic and narrow view of what a MotoGP championship is."
I did not read the whole article, but this quote is only true if looked at it rather shallow. If you really dissect it, you will see what the difference is. Just like I explained in my post before: I already said, that all guys involved in any race somehow "interfered" with the championship. But EVERY guy EXCEPT Marquez did not do this with any purpose other than doing his very best. Every other racer just tried to finish the races the best he can (Andrea Dovizioso for being faster at Austin, or Iannone at Mugello, or Pedrosa at Aragon). ONLY Marquez deliberately did not aim for his personal best position in a race, but rather minimize the chances of Rossi for the title. There is no arguing with that, except for those that claim Marquez tried his best at Valencia, which I am glad you already acknowledged he did not.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 01:15:10 AM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 09, 2015, 11:17:08 PM
And, although it does not matter for this discussion, Rossi's laptimes in Sepang and Valencia do not necessarily mean, he would not have been able to go a different pace if the races would have been held under different circumstances. But I am not even discussing this, since it does not matter one bit in terms of the question whether Marquez was playing a foul game and pretty much ruining the whole championship.
The fact marquez was playing foul I can agree with, no problem. I don't share some of the explanations (the spanish alliance ?!) or the magnitude of his faults, but it's clear that he did something wrong. So what ? We should take away a deserved penalty to rossi because of that ? Should we give rossi the title ?
1) I never wrote anything concerning any spanish alliance or anything... ::)
2) I never claimed Rossi should be handed the title or anything... what kind of argument is that? ALL I was asking, was that Marquez should have race his personal race because that is what has been done all year long, except Valencia (and maybe Sepang). If Marquez and Pedrosa would have raced according to their capabilities, they could have taken P1 and P2. And Rossi would have won the championship with P4. Nobody is handing him the championship in that scenario. THAT would have been racing like it has been all year long.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 01:15:10 AM
The "I can't go past marc, even if I'm faster than him" is non-sense and I'm fairly surprised you buy it.
I do not know what you are referring to here. ??? And consequently I do not think I did buy it. ;D
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 01:15:10 AM
Rossi, thanks to his huge (and deserved) popularity, benefits from a "capital of sympathy" that allows him to come out of this whole thing as if he did nothing wrong and is 100% victim of others. This is simply not true.
Again you seem to confuse me with every single Rossi fan club member. I am not, I am a dry race fan who wants to see real racing and not any double standards (Marquez battled with Rossi in Sepang but waived the white flag at Lorenzo in Valencia).
And in case you missed that too: I have been an outspoken critic on Rossi's behaviour in Sepang from the get-go (feel free to refresh your memories by browsing the Sepang discussion thread). So I don't get why you keep confusing so many things in your answers to me. Try to stay with the facts please, I am also.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 01:15:10 AM
His whole argument is "If hondas helped me in taking points away from lorenzo, and if all the other riders kept away from me, and if I was able to lap 0.5s/lap faster then what I did in reality, then I'd have won". Too many bad ifs for me. But it surely works if the goal is to convince facebook and twitter fans.
This comment from you is exactly what I was referring to when I said that I am under the impression you are not really making well-founded arguments here (I know you normally do, that is why I am so surprised). Rossi never remotely wanted "help" or told anyone to "keep away from him" (you seem to confuse Rossi with Rossi-fans) or that he thinks he should have been "faster per lap". Why you making such statements is beyond me ??? It also does not make any sense to try to interpret these things into his statements, because as I said earlier
he did not need all these things!!!
A normal race in which every rider tries to maximize his racing position would have been sufficient for Rossi to be able to win his championship (Marquez and Pedrosa both could have overtaken Lorenzo).
To sum it up: The only point of this discussion (as can be seen by the thread title) is whether Marquez actually did really only care for his own race in Valencia and try to maximize his result as he and Honda promised to do before the race or did he voluntarily stay behind Lorenzo and therefore not even allow Rossi to have a fair chance at the title in the last race? Everything else (e.g. Sepang) has been discussed before and really is irrelevant for this discussion as the race in Valencia was held under the pre-requisites of Rossi's penalty and the outcome in Sepang.
Stout, my comments were general (except the one quoted below about passing when faster): I know your view of this is not the widespread view of many supporters. In fact when we discussed Sepang, we were aligned on most of the points.
For marquez you can check my previous post (in which I agreed with you): yes, he decided to stay behind Lorenzo.
But after the accusations pre/post Sepang I would have expected just that: riders are fierce competitors, all of them.
One doesn't go around throwing lightly justified accusations without expecting any retaliation.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 02:27:34 AM
I did not read the whole article,
You should. But I already know that many won't read it once they get the direction the author is aiming to.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 02:27:34 AM
Then I do not get your remark concerning the lap times and that Lorenzo was faster in the last 2 races. What were you aiming at then with your comments?
My point is that Rossi is essentially saying that hondas could have helped him in winning the title. From the start, it's an argument I don't like.
Even if the reasoning behind is OK (every racer should race at his best), it's not something you put forward. Never.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 02:27:34 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 01:15:10 AM
The "I can't go past marc, even if I'm faster than him" is non-sense and I'm fairly surprised you buy it.
I do not know what you are referring to here. ??? And consequently I do not think I did buy it. ;D
I'm referring to your past statement about being sensibly slower and still being able to stick to a faster rider (iRacing example).
Anyway, Rossi didn't lose the title on the track: he lost it off the track, with the weird declarations and accusations. And it's a true pity.
How it went (Sepang pre-race press conf, discussin Phillip Island):
QuoteRossi: "From Phillip Island, it's clear that Jorge has a new fan, Marc has played with us, doing everything in Lorenzo's advantage. During the race I didn't realize it immediately, but I saw the race many times and the whole picture was absolutely clear." (an incredible rambling follows)
Lorenzo: "Marc helped me ? Sure, especially on the last lap"
How it should have gone if Rossi had used his usual, unique, cool style (as after the corkscrew in laguna, just off the bikes):
QuoteRossi: "In Phillip Island I had to fight marc and I've lost too much time in doing so. But at least he's passed Jorge so that's OK. Ehi Marc, can you do the same in Sapang please ?"
Everybody laughing (well, maybe except Jorge, but ok, we know him), a much better atmosphere and the basis for proper racing.
But Rossi decided to go the hard way and Marc followed suit. Can't complain after. That's all I'm saying.
The applause were all for Rossi in Valencia (i repeat
Valencia in
Spain!) if anyone had any doubts about who was the real champion between the three ...
Thx Vale!
(https://kobayogas.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/12219585_790918831034248_9090503422681513590_n.jpg?w=460)
Quote from: Blackheart on November 10, 2015, 09:03:56 AM
The applause were all for Rossi in Valencia (i repeat Valencia in Spain!) if anyone had any doubts about who was the real champion between the three ...
Thx Vale!
(https://kobayogas.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/12219585_790918831034248_9090503422681513590_n.jpg?w=460)
That's like your opinion ;)
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 08:24:25 AM
Stout, my comments were general [..] widespread view of many supporters.
Ok good to hear you can still distinguish ;) But really try to stick to the things that were mentioned here. If you just generally refer to the stupid comments from Rossi-supporters and mix them into your arguments, then some other users (that might not read all of our lenghty discussion) might be pressed to think they were resembling my opinion. I also do not mix in stupid comments from Marquez-supporters to create the illusion they were your comments.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 08:24:25 AMOne doesn't go around throwing lightly justified accusations without expecting any retaliation.
Ok agreed, a competitor like Marquez was not gonna swallow that. But why not try to fight with equal means? Retaliating to words by ruining the whole season of Rossi is not fair imo. It just is totally disproportionate, it is not "an eye for an eye", which everybody would have understood. Marquez could have walked out of this whole thing by letting steam off verbally and giving some harsh statements on how this is a stupid accusation, showing the world on the racetrack by just racing his own race and let Rossi take the blame from the public and Media for wrongfully accusing him.
Just let me give you a parallel situation: You are wrongfully accused of having punched someone. Does it sound logic to go to the person who wrongfully accused you and give him a good punch for his wrong accusations?! Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 08:24:25 AM
You should. But I already know that many won't read it once they get the direction the author is aiming to.
Well, the part you quoted from the article is only partially true as the author really did not think his argument to the end. I do not feel much urgency to read the whole article if the part you quoted here is already not particularly enjoyable.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 08:24:25 AM
My point is that Rossi is essentially saying that hondas could have helped him in winning the title. From the start, it's an argument I don't like.
Even if the reasoning behind is OK (every racer should race at his best), it's not something you put forward. Never.
I am not aware of any quote in which Rossi called for "help" from the Hondas. He just wanted fair racing without double standards, which every true racing fan wanted. I seem to get the feeling that you kind of are fed up with many stupid comments/tweeds/facebook-posts from die-hard Rossi supporters (and you are rightly so). But mixing up those stupid comments with justified comments from Rossi or comments from those neutral race fans that are just calling for fair racing, is just not making for good arguments on your side.Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 08:24:25 AM
I'm referring to your past statement about being sensibly slower and still being able to stick to a faster rider (iRacing example).
Well that still is true imo. But again, this has been discussed in the other thread and we did not reach an agreement there. For the discussion past-Sepang it does not hold any value anyhow - so I am not even trying to convince you on this.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 08:24:25 AM
Anyway, Rossi didn't lose the title on the track: he lost it off the track, with the weird declarations and accusations. And it's a true pity.
Wrong. Rossi made the odds of still having a shot at the championship pretty bad with his behaviour - he had to start from the last position in Valencia. That is the ONLY consequence from his actions. He still was very much alive in contention after he managed to get to 4th place and Dani making a desperate run for P1 by having managed his tyres very smartly thru the race. If Pedrosa would have overtaken and Marquez would have overtaken, Lorenzo would have had P3, which would have left Rossi with the title. HOW can you argue with that?!
Well, in fact if one analyses the situation very dry and one is not being a fanboy of either party involved (well maybe I am a Pedrosa-fan now ;)), then it would be fair to analyse that if Rossi would not have been demoted to last grid-position, he would have had a starting position between 1-12 (it is hard to evaluate which position he would have finished Q2 under normal circumstances). Let us assume he would have had P12 at the start of the race. He would most likely also only have finished 4th in Valencia. Which means, the race in fact was also only decided by the lack of racing spirit on Marquez part, because it would have been the exact same situation. It is just a shame that Marquez did not just race his own race and also did not let Pedrosa do his race.
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 08:24:25 AM
How it should have gone if Rossi had used his usual, unique, cool style (as after the corkscrew in laguna, just off the bikes):
QuoteRossi: "In Phillip Island I had to fight marc and I've lost too much time in doing so. But at least he's passed Jorge so that's OK. Ehi Marc, can you do the same in Sapang please ?"
Everybody laughing (well, maybe except Jorge, but ok, we know him), a much better atmosphere and the basis for proper racing.
But Rossi decided to go the hard way and Marc followed suit. Can't complain after. That's all I'm saying.
That is where I agree with you. Rossi just should have laughed it off, because there was no substantial evidence that Marquez did anything but caring for his own race.
You have made many comments, but the one thing you really have
failed to comment on (a statement which you should subsequently acknowledge as there really is no arguing it) is:
Quote from: Stout Johnson
Marquez should have race his personal race because that is what has been done all year long, except Valencia (and maybe Sepang). If Marquez and Pedrosa would have raced according to their capabilities, they could have taken P1 and P2. And Rossi would have won the championship with P4. Nobody is handing him the championship in that scenario. THAT would have been racing like it has been all year long.
THIS is the only real discussion the race in Valencia boils down to. It would not have automatically meant that Rossi would have won the championship btw (but many seem to claim it). For example, Marquez could/should have overtaken Lorenzo in lap 5 or so, then Pedrosa would have come close because he had managed his tyres and would have had a shot at overtaking Lorenzo in lap 2 or lap 1. Then either
a) Pedrosa would have taken P2 and Rossi would have been champion
b) Pedrosa would not have been able to claim P2 (e.g. maybe making a mistake while overtaking) and Lorenzo would have been champion with P2
Either way: a) or b) would have meant that it would have been a true race, true motorsports.
- it would have brought back grace to this beautiful season
- all other actions from Sepang would have been seen in a different light, Marquez would have been given the benefit of the doubt for probably just fighting extraordinarily hard with Rossi in Sepang, and Rossi being the scapegoat by losing his temper and acting bad
- Lorenzo's title would not have the bad taste it does have now (in case Pedrosa would not have been able to cling to P2); he could have had a title to be proud of
- in case Rossi would have been champ, it would have left a bad taste to go with his title given his bad behaviour in Sepang; but from a race stand-point he would also have been a deserving champion
- the whole Sepang-saga would have been remembered differently: it would have been seen as a short (but disgraceful, for Rossi) interruption in an otherwise legendary season
- Marquez would have been seen by most as a true sportsman - except the die-hard Rossi supporters, but who gives a f--k about them anyway?
- I would not be wasting away time, commentating here on this, instead doing something useful (many beautiful women have been neglected by me in the meantime :P) /li]
That is why these comments probably are my final remarks on this. Offtopic: Today testing @Sepang begins, it will be broadcast on Eurosport (at least in Germany). Will be interesting to watch in terms of new season (new ECU, new tyres etc etc).
https://www.facebook.com/devino.class/videos/1509966429301440/
Quote from: vin97 on November 10, 2015, 10:19:43 AM
https://www.facebook.com/devino.class/videos/1509966429301440/
Amazing :D
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
Ok agreed, a competitor like Marquez was not gonna swallow that. But why not try to fight with equal means?
Because he's a kid and decided to be a prick. But how did Rossi retaliate in Sepang's race ?
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
Well, the part you quoted from the article is only partially true as the author really did not think his argument to the end. I do not feel much urgency to read the whole article if the part you quoted here is already not particularly enjoyable.
You're kind of putting yourself in the category I mentioned (the ones that won't read it because they don't share the conclusions). You could always read it and keep your opinion.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
I am not aware of any quote in which Rossi called for "help" from the Hondas. He just wanted fair racing without double standards, which every true racing fan wanted.
Not explicitly, but implicitly yes. And he did ask for "others to stay out of it" (which is nonsense too, to me).
He wanted a 1vs1 fight with Jorge, with the others out of it (and, if possible, with the honda preceding jorge, just to be on the safe side). That's not how it works.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 10, 2015, 08:24:25 AM
Anyway, Rossi didn't lose the title on the track: he lost it off the track, with the weird declarations and accusations. And it's a true pity.
Wrong. Rossi made the odds of still having a shot at the championship pretty bad with his behaviour - he had to start from the last position in Valencia. That is the ONLY consequence from his actions.
It's not the ONLY consequence: what Marquez did in Valencia is a consequence of Vale's actions too.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
Well, in fact if one analyses the situation very dry and one is not being a fanboy of either party involved (well maybe I am a Pedrosa-fan now ;)), then it would be fair to analyse that if Rossi would not have been demoted to last grid-position, he would have had a starting position between 1-12 (it is hard to evaluate which position he would have finished Q2 under normal circumstances). Let us assume he would have had P12 at the start of the race. He would most likely also only have finished 4th in Valencia. Which means, the race in fact was also only decided by the lack of racing spirit on Marquez part, because it would have been the exact same situation. It is just a shame that Marquez did not just race his own race and also did not let Pedrosa do his race.
Under normal conditions vale would have qualified in row 2 most likely. I do agree that barring crashes/mistakes from the others, he would have finished 4th anyway. But one never knows, putting a bit of extra pressure on Jorge ... The whole problem is that the conditions weren't normal, not by a mile. You can't expect a rider you've attacked like that to help you.
I know you say it's not "help", it's racing fair. But in the end, if marc does what vale wants him to do, Vale can win it. And that, in marc's head, was not an option. It's truly fugly, but is a consequence of previous ugly stuff.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
You have made many comments, but the one thing you really have failed to comment on (a statement which you should subsequently acknowledge as there really is no arguing it) is:
Quote from: Stout Johnson
Marquez should have race his personal race because that is what has been done all year long, except Valencia (and maybe Sepang). If Marquez and Pedrosa would have raced according to their capabilities, they could have taken P1 and P2. And Rossi would have won the championship with P4. Nobody is handing him the championship in that scenario. THAT would have been racing like it has been all year long.
It's all agreed: marquez should have, but he didn't. I just say that I understand why he did it (which doesn't mean I approve the fact he did it).
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 10, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
- I would not be wasting away time, commentating here on this, instead doing something useful (many beautiful women have been neglected by me in the meantime :P) /li]
I'm doing this from work: no beautiful woman has been neglected by me. In the end it's just kids racing on bikes for who has the biggest balls, so priority is definitely lower than beautiful women :)
Quote from: vin97 on November 10, 2015, 10:19:43 AM
https://www.facebook.com/devino.class/videos/1509966429301440/
The biggest trophy in the world- RESPECT!
Quote from: WALKEN on November 09, 2015, 12:24:46 AM
Quote from: Aernouts2 on November 08, 2015, 06:11:02 PM
unfortunatly i have to dissapoint you guys...
Its not a fake account (sorry) i just had to make a new account after a upgraded to Win 10. :-[
The reason why i am not posting that much is..
1. I am very busy during the week.
2. Well to bad but...I used to be a Bike games modder (no time left for me ATM) some peeps on her probably stil know me.
3. I do come on this forum because i do like racing (bike) games.. too bad GP bikes never realy took off :(.
So thats it.. peeps.. you can fire at me now (if you like) no fake account :) :-X lol
P.S
Blackheart + VIN 97
Pff no fake account hmmm ???
REG right- Racing editing gaming.
;) long long time ago
Once upon a time.... i used to spend much of my free time to Mod bike games.
I am still doing it but not for community's anymore.
P.S those were the days :-X
P.S 2
I see some pretty sad pictures posted by Rossi fans on here which are a little !!...... Sad/childish/disgusting. :(
I hope Vale did not see this before he invited *Carmelo Ezpeleta* into his Motohome :).... that was even painfyll to my eyes :(... worst loser ever.
Some jokes are actually funny though. Just read this, made me laugh hard :)
"Marquez crashes in the pre-season test in Valencia. Rossi penalized: in the first race in Qatar, he will start from Misano"
Well...i love this one.....
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/what-really-happened-in-valencia/
I like everything about these articles by pro's, except maybe the Title of this one which is a very pretentious way to attract readers. Yak. Good article, naff selling.
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 10, 2015, 09:14:52 PM
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/what-really-happened-in-valencia/
I swear I didn't write that either.
Once the heart rates are back to normal, people will start looking at all his in a different and less emotional manner. Including the involved riders.
P.S.
Thanks Boerenlater, I feel kind of reassured by the 2 links you posted ... now I'm pretty confident I'm not a Rossi hater and/or Jorge&Marc lover ... I was starting to doubt :)
Good job finding people with the same opinion as you, Max!
Don't know how this adds anything new to the discussion but congrats anyway.
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 10, 2015, 09:14:52 PM
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/what-really-happened-in-valencia/
I must say.... Great article about Mick Doohan at the bottom of the page. Thanks Boren! ;D ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on November 10, 2015, 10:32:23 PM
Quote from: Boerenlater on November 10, 2015, 09:14:52 PM
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/what-really-happened-in-valencia/
I must say.... Great article about Mick Doohan at the bottom of the page. Thanks Boren! ;D ;D
Hawk.
+1 @ Hawk
@ Boerenlater, this is a good read and cheers.
Let me say this "You have 30 laps to try and unsettle someone, you wait till the last lap
at the last race of the season to plan your overtake". REALLY? We all know Jorge has a good pace
and we are also aware of the struggles Marc has with his bike but this guy always fights to win
and this was not one of those times. Again 30 laps 30 F&%KIN laps. I blame the Pope.
Quote from: Docfumi on November 10, 2015, 10:52:22 PM
. I blame the Pope.
PMSL ROFL and all the other acronyms. I heard he "hard a word in Rossi's shell, like" but seriously what did he say?
"You are paranoid my son, for this the Almighty will make you come 4th"
or
"Its all true, my Goat, and I'm sure the Almighty will make you win today"
in which case he has probably legged it out of the country denying everything. Hmm my opinion of the situation may be swaying....
Quote from: Guimengo on November 10, 2015, 11:11:37 PM
I hope 2016 is good and that the guys can go back to having some form of relationship. And may Rossi prevail before switching to WSBK!
;D 8)
Stoner returns?? Rumour?
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on November 11, 2015, 01:07:09 PM
Stoner returns?? Rumour?
I seem to remember it was the same rumour last year too. Lol ;D
But I do hope he does.... Stoner is a great rider. ;D
Hawk.
Let's see if it is confirmed before starting to drool, up to now I've read about a tester + some wild card deal (so no full season) ... and it's all to be confirmed.
Apparently honda has made him an offer too.
That would be a hell of a season !