Would it be possible to have (add) a first person view mode where the viewing camera was inside the rider helmet model?
I was just thinking you could then have a real 3D helmet view and the possibility of applying the shaders to the visor so we could have realistic reflections and lighting applied.
Thank you.
MaxTM got it implemented ... but without reflections i think ... but it looks fantastic
~doN
But i think that a 2D overlay so you are limited with what you can do. With a model you can use all the graphic engine modelling effects.
Yeah, what's in my plugin is a simple 2d overlay, not a real 3d model.
On the other hand, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to have a real 3d model: moddig a helmet would suddenly be more difficult.
But in principle, it would be cool !
Great idea H, and it wouldn't take a lot of work to model the inside of the helmet for the section that would be seen, but there is a mesh plane with the riders face textured onto it that I believe would block any view of the camera. Only option would be to strip that face mesh out; I don't think we can see the face anyway can we? That's if we can get access to it? It's probably in .EDF format and we have no importer for the EDF format. :-\
Only other option would be if we could totally replace the head section of the helmet model with our own model?
Can't we adjust the helmet cam position already?
Hawk.
Its just that in 1P you see reflections in the windshield and gauges but it looks very obvious that you helmet visor is missing. I just think it would feel more first person if the illusion of the visor could be simulated. The 1P rider needs an overhaul anyway with the legs and body adding in ready for VR and adding a helmet would surely not add a lot of work.
The camera position 'sort of' follows the rider view position defined in BikeED
Please dont take this the wrong way Max, I dont use your helmet view as It stays still on the horizontal and does not rotate as it would do in real life as you are leaning if you know what I mean. As I use a real controller and actually lean with the handlebars as on a real bike my head does not stay horizontal, it tilts to the side following my body and neck. I think it would be better than a 3D view if to start with you could make the 2D helmet view rotate depending on the angle of lean the bike has or the angle needle from your app. This would mean less viewing area in one way but would be more realistic than basically sitting level which is not real. Your work is great and it looks brilliant. Nobody has done this yet and it would add more feel as it would look correct. Once you had movement of the 2D part it would help develop something for 3D maybe.
I hope I explained it okay, its not one of my strong points lol.
DD
Probably easier to do in 3D as we do not get any rider pose data out of the telemetry.
Quote from: doubledragoncc on March 02, 2016, 12:07:48 AM
Please dont take this the wrong way Max, I dont use your helmet view as It stays still on the horizontal and does not rotate as it would do in real life as you are leaning if you know what I mean. As I use a real controller and actually lean with the handlebars as on a real bike my head does not stay horizontal, it tilts to the side following my body and neck. I think it would be better than a 3D view if to start with you could make the 2D helmet view rotate depending on the angle of lean the bike has or the angle needle from your app. This would mean less viewing area in one way but would be more realistic than basically sitting level which is not real. Your work is great and it looks brilliant. Nobody has done this yet and it would add more feel as it would look correct. Once you had movement of the 2D part it would help develop something for 3D maybe.
No problem man, I see what you mean.
But even if we had the 3d model, that wouldn't change the fact that in GPB, by default, it's the horizon that moves with respect to the monitor because players typically don't move.
So if we had to do it properly for people like you, we should have: first, the tilt set to zero (so that the horizon on screen will not rotate) and then the 3d model (or my 2d overlay) rotating.
It's doable, more or less just like the tilt in GPB. But I'm not very confident it will actually look nice (not even for you). You'd see large black stripes on the sides of the screen at high lean angles.
But now I'm confused because in your recent videos, the tilt is not set to zero: the horizon moves ?! Seems wrong according to what you want ...
Yes the horizon moves, but only so much. When in 1st person the bike is still leaning off off the center and my bars are at an angle to match the bike on the screen, this causes NFFB and makes me move my upper body as on a real bike and naturally the head moves too. So My eyes are now not level but at an angle to match the bikes angle minus the natural negative tilt you make to reduce the angle of the road in view.
You are very right too about the movement looking strange which is why it is better with none.
If I need to have helmet view I will just wear me lid lol
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on March 02, 2016, 09:53:46 AM
Yes the horizon moves, but only so much. When in 1st person the bike is still leaning off off the center and my bars are at an angle to match the bike on the screen, this causes NFFB and makes me move my upper body as on a real bike and naturally the head moves too. So My eyes are now not level but at an angle to match the bikes angle minus the natural negative tilt you make to reduce the angle of the road in view.
But in that case you should set the tile in gpb to zero, so that it stays level on the screen and you only see the tilt that you do with your body/head, no ?
If one has an hardware rig with a screen fixed to the wall and a bike frame that can lean (roll) left/right, then the tilt in GPB should be set at zero.
Your case should be similar.
If I leave it at zero, it is wrong. As I have it works great actually lol
It is only the helmet not moving that is wrong for me. Even if I was to use a gamepad, I am one of those that leans anyways lol
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on March 02, 2016, 09:53:46 AM
Yes the horizon moves, but only so much. When in 1st person the bike is still leaning off off the center and my bars are at an angle to match the bike on the screen, this causes NFFB and makes me move my upper body as on a real bike and naturally the head moves too. So My eyes are now not level but at an angle to match the bikes angle minus the natural negative tilt you make to reduce the angle of the road in view.
You are very right too about the movement looking strange which is why it is better with none.
If I need to have helmet view I will just wear me lid lol
DD
Actually that is a very good point, and you'd get your helmet view for free too without any modders having to create models, etc, etc.... But yeah a good point DD! Hehe! ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: doubledragoncc on March 02, 2016, 10:19:04 AM
If I leave it at zero, it is wrong.
Hmmm ... messy.
I did notice that handling the head tilt with EDTracker is not as simple as it seems. I ended up letting GPB handle it, which is OK as i don't physically lean).
In your case, you do lean, but I'm sure your head does not lean as much as your body (this happens on a real bike, the head tries to keep the horizon level).
Yep that is what I was trying to say lol
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on March 02, 2016, 10:49:41 AM
Yep that is what I was trying to say lol
I'm confused now: what would you like to have ?
Let's say the bike s leaning 30deg left.
With respect to the screen horizontal border, GPB's horizon will be tilted 30deg (to the right, assuming tilt setting is > 30deg).
Now what would you like to see in terms of helmet overlay ? The helmet "following" the GPB horizon ?
Just to clarify, the main reason for wanting a 'real' helmet view is too be able to emulate the visor lighting effects which are missing from the player point of view in 1P but are clearly visible effecting the bike i.e. reflections on the windshield and instruments thus lowering the 'reality' factor of simulation.
All it needs is a key in the gfx or cameras file that would allow the T-cam/rider view to be fixed inside a graphics model. Then a fairly simple model can be made that can have the shaders to get the desired effects. I will happily make my own model, just need PB to let it into the sim :D
Just for the record i use EDTracker and let GPB handle the tilt (set to 100%). I find this works well, and feels reasonably natural. I do not like the arguemnt for always fixed horizontal horizon as i am pretty sure i do not have +/- 65 degrees of head tilt in real life to completely correct the bike lean.
Quote from: h106frp on March 02, 2016, 11:03:47 AM
Just to clarify, the main reason for wanting a 'real' helmet view is too be able to emulate the visor lighting effects which are missing from the player point of view in 1P but are clearly visible effecting the bike i.e. reflections on the windshield and instruments thus lowering the 'reality' factor of simulation.
That's understood. Maybe you could do a test putting a big curved surface (that plays the role of the helmet visor) attached somewhere on top of the fuel tank, just to see if you can achieve something that would bring what you hope.
Quote from: h106frp on March 02, 2016, 11:03:47 AM
I do not like the arguemnt for always fixed horizontal horizon as i am pretty sure i do not have +/- 65 degrees of head tilt in real life to completely correct the bike lean.
The fixed horizon would be only for people with a full rig that allows them to lean physically. When doing so, even if your rig goes 65deg, your head will compensate like on a real bike and go down to more acceptable and realistic levels. It will be exactly like on a real bike: bike and rider move, horizon don't.
I am considering trying the big surface model just to experiment with the shading, obviously will not be much use as a visor simulation though :(
I use 50% tilt so if the helmet view tilted the same as the bikes lean angle minus say 5degrees it would be pretty close.
DD
Quote from: h106frp on March 02, 2016, 11:33:57 AM
I am considering trying the big surface model just to experiment with the shading, obviously will not be much use as a visor simulation though :(
Yeah. that's what I meant, test the shading and see if it works fine for that purpose (I'm not sure).
Quote from: doubledragoncc on March 02, 2016, 11:38:16 AM
I use 50% tilt so if the helmet view tilted the same as the bikes lean angle minus say 5degrees it would be pretty close.
I'm totally not convinced, but I'll give it a go and let you know :)
Thanks bro, but it will not look great as when the helmet view rotates, the sides of the helmet will be near the corners of the screen and then you will get an ugly triangle in each corner lol.
You would need to make the view far smaller to fit in the screen area at angles and that means less viewing area which is not good. It is a thing that in reality is hard to do right and to suit all. Do not waste time just for my personal thoughts.
I just wanted to say about the fact that the helmet stays level in the screen right now which I find odd unless I nail myself upright that is lol.
Great work either way bro. Your stuff rocks. Thank you for all the hard work to improve our fun.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on March 02, 2016, 11:55:41 AM
Thanks bro, but it will not look great as when the helmet view rotates, the sides of the helmet will be near the corners of the screen and then you will get an ugly triangle in each corner lol.
I can black the triangles out.
If your up to trying it then great. Luv you dedication to perfection bro.
DD
Just looking at files and noticed that a helmet model c_helmet is already declared for the cockpit model. Anybody have any ideas how we get this to display?
gfx,cfg
model = helmet.hrc
visor = visor
shadow = helmet_s.edf
cockpit
{
model = c_helmet.edf
shadow = helmet_s.edf
}
Bumping my own thread but i have had a bit of a play with this since;
Substituted 3P rider into 1P view- rider has arms, torso and legs in 1P, surprised how accustomed i had become to the floaty arm model ;)
Anyway, it becomes obvious how the helmet cam does not follow the rider pose, you can notice this with the shadow model as well. Generally the camera stays more central and higher that the rider pose and is more static.
Would it possible to add an option switch to force the camera translations to follow the rider pose with the EDtracker still controlling the 'look' as we have currently? I think this would add a lot of dynamic to the 1P view for those who want to experiment with it.
It would be nice if the camera also followed the 'look over shoulder' left right path rather than just spinning around when using the EDTracker.
Thankyou