https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/tank-slappers-and-the-way-to-avoid-them/167234.article (https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/tank-slappers-and-the-way-to-avoid-them/167234.article)
http://www.triumphrat.net/riding-and-survival-skills/88984-tank-slapper-explained.html (http://www.triumphrat.net/riding-and-survival-skills/88984-tank-slapper-explained.html)
http://www.youtube.com/v/I71Y2PfCuy8
http://www.youtube.com/v/GvHtChodNk0
Cheers,
/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
@Warlock: look at the 1st video above (first 3 seconds). Is the head shaking ? :)
Nice articles to read, I have had a few experiences of this on the highway and it is never nice.
So the way ahead for Beta 8 is to introduce another button which can be used to "lessen the grip on the bars" and this game breaking problem will be sorted.
(http://www.patentlyapple.com/.a/6a0120a5580826970c01b7c7dad441970b-800wi)
Quote from: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2016, 08:07:31 AM
So the way ahead for Beta 8 is to introduce another button which can be used to "lessen the grip on the bars" and this game breaking problem will be sorted.
Err, a bit over-optimistic here man :)
If the ERROR was fix you wont need a fucking button!!!
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 12, 2016, 08:17:54 AM
If the ERROR was fix you wont need a fucking button!!!
DD there's no error: real bikes do have tankslappers (see videos above).
We may argue that in GPB they are a bit too frequent, of course, but there's no error/bug to speak of.
LOL!
But it s NOT an error! It is a replication of what happens IRL. PiBoSo has NAILED it! OK so maybe it happens a little too often (like the runaway bike) but that is just testament to just how close to perfect the physics is. "Lessen the grip button" and we are at V1.0, man.
I seem to be wearing my most optimistic head ever today! Its gonna be a great day, nobody better ruin it. ;D
Edit: Max beat me too it! Hahahaa get yer optimistic head on DD join us up here in the clouds
Edit 2 : joi spello
@Nap: I'm not sure the "lessen the grip" stuff is a practical solution. All we need is a properly tuned bike physics and an accordingly properly tuned virtual rider.
DUDE really, In over 36 years as a professional medical rider and mechanic for Honda and Suzuki and custom building bikes, I have NEVER got on a bike that slaps like it does in GPB, that IS an error mate, ask any tech and they will say the same. The places and the amount it happens is WRONG, wrong means it is an ERROR.............POINT.
Sorry but it is a FACT not an illusion or figment of my imagination. It is totally unrealistic and fucks the sim up, plain and simple.
Matty's V750X does it far less in default than other bikes btw, so it can be fixed better than having yet another button to do something I should not have to do!!!
ERROR plain and simple
DD
OMG this needs to go down in print as a classic example of how 'Irony is often lost on a forum'.
Edit: And just so everyone is clear I hate this bug so much that Beta 8 is sucking the life out of my enthusiasm for the game.
There you go. It's out there.
Optimistic and hopeful head swapped for pessimistic and deflated head. Good job.
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 12, 2016, 08:28:22 AM
@Nap: I'm not sure the "lessen the grip" stuff is a practical solution. All we need is a properly tuned bike physics and an accordingly properly tuned virtual rider.
+1 Max. ;)
The green is possible by bikeMOD physics guys, the red as far as I know is still impossible to a large extent apart from adjusting the riders initial centre of gravity on the bike, at least I think it's the initial rider CofG?
But yes, I agree with Max on this one that the solution is better tuned bike physics and rider. One is absolutely possible, the other I'm not sure about. :)
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on April 12, 2016, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 12, 2016, 08:28:22 AM
@Nap: I'm not sure the "lessen the grip" stuff is a practical solution. All we need is a properly tuned bike physics and an accordingly properly tuned virtual rider.
+1 Max. ;)
The green is possible by bikeMOD physics guys, the red as far as I know is still impossible to a large extent apart from adjusting the riders initial centre of gravity on the bike, at least I think it's the initial rider CofG?
But yes, I agree with Max on this one that the solution is better tuned bike physics and rider. One is absolutely possible, the other I'm not sure about. :)
Hawk.
Red: I am sure it will be by our lovely ace modders but as yet there are NO examples of this and it needs to be done by the DEVELOPER. What is the point of modders 'fixing it' so that when the Developer fixes it they have to change everything again to match it back up because it is now over-compensated for?
The only benefit of this is that we (the loyal long suffering fans) can get a decent bike to ride now rather than whenever the GPB development plan is picked up again.
Hmmm did I just answer myself?
Purple Max is right does anyone really think different?. As a result of my Ironic 'extra button' post being believed by the majority it seems, I am re-evaluating what I post here or at least how I post it lol.
"Irony is the lowest form of wit" - which explains why most people don't get it (they are too intelligent). ;)
On a plus side Hawk, you have made quoting other people using colours a significant improvement on the way forum business is done! You should patent that ASAP ;D
Maybe we just need a forum button for irony?
Cheers,
David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Quote from: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2016, 10:31:48 AM
Quote from: Hawk on April 12, 2016, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 12, 2016, 08:28:22 AM
@Nap: I'm not sure the "lessen the grip" stuff is a practical solution. All we need is a properly tuned bike physics and an accordingly properly tuned virtual rider.
+1 Max. ;)
The green is possible by bikeMOD physics guys, the red as far as I know is still impossible to a large extent apart from adjusting the riders initial centre of gravity on the bike, at least I think it's the initial rider CofG?
But yes, I agree with Max on this one that the solution is better tuned bike physics and rider. One is absolutely possible, the other I'm not sure about. :)
Hawk.
Red: I am sure it will be by our lovely ace modders but as yet there are NO examples of this and it needs to be done by the DEVELOPER. What is the point of modders 'fixing it' so that when the Developer fixes it they have to change everything again to match it back up because it is now over-compensated for?
The only benefit of this is that we (the loyal long suffering fans) can get a decent bike to ride now rather than whenever the GPB development plan is picked up again. Hmmm did I just answer myself?
Purple Max is right does anyone really think different?. As a result of my Ironic 'extra button' post being believed by the majority it seems, I am re-evaluating what I post here or at least how I post it lol.
"Irony is the lowest form of wit" - which explains why most people don't get it (they are too intelligent). ;)
On a plus side Hawk, you have made quoting other people using colours a significant improvement on the way forum business is done! You should patent that ASAP ;D
Colour quoting: Lol....Just thought it would pinpoint the particular phrase of a quote I'm specifically talking about simply and clearly. Hehe. But I like the improvement of what you have done there by categorising the colour being talked about into a paragraph header.... Nice addition... I like it! ;D 8)
I'm sure from some of our team tests in the past we have had bikes with absolutely no wobble at all(which isn't a good thing in certain conditions as it's not reality, likewise too much wobbling isn't reality either. Lol)...... It would be good to hear C21 or Alone's opinion on this subject to explain further. ;) 8)
Hawk.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2016, 10:31:48 AM
Purple Max is right does anyone really think different?. As a result of my Ironic 'extra button' post being believed by the majority it seems, I am re-evaluating what I post here or at least how I post it lol.
"Irony is the lowest form of wit" - which explains why most people don't get it (they are too intelligent). ;)
I didn't get it your proposal was 100% ironic, but that at least proves that the irony was subtle and not blatant, which is a good point for you.
On top, your proposal is not 100% dumb: if we had a button to tell the virtual rider "wow, take it easy here with the handlebars", that could be a nice experiment. You could be able to enter tank-slap territory and ride through it like a boss. Pure fun.
I don't think it's practical (unless I can get an extra arm and hand implanted on me) nor particularly easy to code. That last point (not easy to code) could be worth further thoughts: lowering the virtual rider gains (via the button) should give a "softer" virtual rider, something that could (*could*) let you survive the tank-slapper.
Bottom line: Nap, your irony was good. So good it caught me off. But partially because the ironic proposal was far from totally dumb. I'm not going as far as stating that "you've been involuntarily smart", I'll leave it at "you've been smart" :)
About tuning the virtual rider: it's a real pain, as we have to go by trial and error. Proper methods to tune it are far to complex for 99.9% of the population.
Heehee! Love you guys.
Quote from: davidboda46 on April 12, 2016, 10:45:50 AM
Maybe we just need a forum button for irony?
ROFL!!!!
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 12, 2016, 11:37:36 AM
Bottom line: Nap, your irony was good. So good it caught me off. But partially because the ironic proposal was far from totally dumb. I'm not going as far as stating that "you've been involuntarily smart", I'll leave it at "you've been smart" :)
LOL absolutely! The reason it was far from dumb was because the idea was borne from actually reading Davids article and the suggestion of relaxing grip in times of tankslapper, rather than being my own good idea (surely too dumb to think that up) :)
Casting my memories back to my tankslappers I distinctly remember releasing the bars. Whether this was a natural reaction to cure the problem derived from the human 7th sense, my inertial navigation gyro theory teaching role, or whether it was just a decision to save breaking thumbs against the tank I cannot recall. But the problem resolved itself when giving total control back to the gyros (the bike).
PS: 7th sense bit = irony. ;D
Quote from: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2016, 12:17:05 PM
LOL absolutely! The reason it was far from dumb was because the idea was borne from actually reading Davids article and the suggestion of relaxing grip in times of tankslapper, rather than being my own good idea (surely too dumb to think that up) :)
But that fact was knownor at least it should have been, it has been reported it plenty of times (in the discussion about using a steering damper to solve issues).
Technically, a tankslapper is called weave. And it is different from a simple "head shake", which technically is called wobble.
http://www.dinamoto.it/dinamoto/8_on-line_papers/wobble-weave/wobble-weave_eng.html (http://www.dinamoto.it/dinamoto/8_on-line_papers/wobble-weave/wobble-weave_eng.html)
To cure wobble you can fit a steering damper and increase the damping.
But to cure weave, you kind of have to do the opposite: reduce damping (lessening the grip on the bars). If you fit a steering damper, you'll likely have less wobble but more weave !
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 12, 2016, 08:20:36 AM
Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 12, 2016, 08:17:54 AM
If the ERROR was fix you wont need a fucking button!!!
DD there's no error: real bikes do have tankslappers (see videos above).
We may argue that in GPB they are a bit too frequent, of course, but there's no error/bug to speak of.
+1
So BOB your +1 means you have ridden on loads of bikes that have a front end wobble like in GPB and you think it is normal???
Dont think I would ever buy a bike from you even if you swore it handled great.
Its a waste of time even talking about it if you really believe its realistic. Think I'll stick to facts and not fiction.
DD
+1 lol ;D
Nick your confusing me now bro lol
Who you +1 for, if it was not for me I aint sharing my gummie bears with you eva again lol
Just furking about guys
DD
Yes it is a +1 for you not that nasty Bobbington.
I rarely quote posts when directly above mine, you may assume it is in relation to it.
"If my bike handled like that I would burn it" is rapidly becoming my motto.
now hand those gorgeous little fellas over!
Gummi Bear 'White Helmets'
(http://www.albanesecandy.com/candy-store/images/products/popup/12-flavor-gummi-bears_6.jpg?v=1426353019)
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 12, 2016, 12:28:31 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2016, 12:17:05 PM
LOL absolutely! The reason it was far from dumb was because the idea was borne from actually reading Davids article and the suggestion of relaxing grip in times of tankslapper, rather than being my own good idea (surely too dumb to think that up) :)
But that fact was knownor at least it should have been, it has been reported it plenty of times (in the discussion about using a steering damper to solve issues).
Technically, a tankslapper is called weave. And it is different from a simple "head shake", which technically is called wobble.
http://www.dinamoto.it/dinamoto/8_on-line_papers/wobble-weave/wobble-weave_eng.html (http://www.dinamoto.it/dinamoto/8_on-line_papers/wobble-weave/wobble-weave_eng.html)
To cure wobble you can fit a steering damper and increase the damping.
But to cure weave, you kind of have to do the opposite: reduce damping (lessening the grip on the bars). If you fit a steering damper, you'll likely have less wobble but more weave !
+1 ;)
Dont worry BOB you can have some gummie bears too.
All is fair in love and war lol.
I really dont give a flying fuck, I just want a bike that dont shake my nuts off and beat them against the tank, thats what hurts most.
FYI, I had a head on back in '83 on my Wing and took the clocks off with my nuts, I was in PAIN for a long time and my GF was not a happy bunny. I got sensetive nuptuals now so dont want em hurt no more lol.
DD
Lol which bit are you +1-ing now BoB?
The fact we all should have read the full steering damper thread and remembered every fact in it?
Or the wobble / weave description that everyone knows about (or should of) because they already read all that in the first post articles?
Anyway I don't care any more - the day has ended much like it started. Fruitless in a fix.
this too!
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 12, 2016, 08:20:36 AM
We may argue that in GPB they are a bit too frequent, of course, but there's no error/bug to speak of.
Still think an adjustable damper to fiddle with in garage is worth a try at least...
I know with my damper it's constantly up and down.. too much and i struggle in the slow tight corners like hairpins. too little and the bike can get out of shape on the throttle.. bars flapping all over the place etc etc. also the steering lock should be alot less on a race bike to help against tankslappers.
It really doesn't take much to get out of shape.. but usually it is totally fine, push through it, forget about it, next apex.. 8)
Quote from: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2016, 09:28:06 PM
Lol which bit are you +1-ing now BoB?
haha sorry, MaX's bit..
one finger typer over here.. ::)
Quote from: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2016, 09:28:06 PM
Anyway I don't care any more - the day has ended much like it started. Fruitless in a fix.
Sure, because screaming "IT'S A FUCKIN' ERROR" has gone miles in the opposite direction ...
No wait ... I have a doubt now ... were you being ironic again Nap ? Gosh I'm lost now :)
ROFL...................
I luvz you guys lol
DD
Haha it is a pleasure to read trough this thread :D
+1 for me! :P
Nah i agree, tankslappers hsppen IRL, but FAR less than here, we need a cure. Might be the rider/bike physics in a combination i think, as mentioned earlier too
Quote from: HornetMaX on April 12, 2016, 07:48:20 AM
@Warlock: look at the 1st video above (first 3 seconds). Is the head shaking ? :)
LOL it's shaking just a bit ;D
But that one is a really really nasty one m8, you have to admit.
Check the replay from second 10. At first his head wasn't shaking (he could see where he was going to crash ;D) until the bike went totally out of control.
Also the bike was moving, by far, more than the head, and that's what i was talking about :)
Quote from: Meyer#12 on April 13, 2016, 05:41:28 AM
Nah i agree, tankslappers hsppen IRL, but FAR less than here, we need a cure. Might be the rider/bike physics in a combination i think, as mentioned earlier too
Agree.
So far on Blackhearts NR750 I have had NO tankslappers, it is by far the most stable bike and ride more like a motorbike than a fairground thrill ride lol.
DD