Probably well known by some but i stumbled across it and thought it might be some use to DD or others with sound experiments
in the sfx.cfg file
found this quote in a random PB guide 'mindistance is the distance under which volume is the max.'
So for the default Mura and Varese this value is;
scl = engine.scl
min_distance = 16
So i assume if you are within 16m of any bike(s) including your own you get the engine sound channel at full volume
- anybody know the typical starting grid spacing? I guess this is why your bike is only as loud as the ones around you as they are all within the minimum sphere. It would seem more sensible to reduce this value and adjust the sample volumes such that the proximity of other bikes becomes more progressive over shorter distances
edit:
If this is any reference then you will get a lot of max volumes - Malaysia MGP
(http://www.roadracingworld.com/RFS/rrw/ImportedMedia/image0011156084632.jpg?size=630)
Good find and thought.
So.............if you turn that 16 to 1 the full volume would only happen with the bike on top of you?
Is this something you can edit and not get bike mismatch online?
I will have to play about lol
Thanks H
DD
EDIT: No bike mismatch on server.
I am guessing that's how it works.
sfx is unique to each bike so for a mixed bike server you would need to adjust if for all the bikes installed not just the one you are using otherwise it would just make the situation worse ;D
I am also guessing that as the models are pulled from the local client you can do this to suit your personal tastes without effecting anyone else online - they will hear what they have installed locally.
Must admit until i found the link i had not really thought about it and assumed it was the distance that the sound became audible at but i guess the attenuation is calculated from 'mindistance' to some approximation of infinite ::)
For reference the default 125 uses mindistance=8m, as you suggest i would consider making the value maybe 2m so you still get your own bike at full volume and allow the audio software to calculate the attenuation.
Having had a play with some engine audio i did notice that some MOD samples are quite heavily clipped and not normalized to any standard reference. Clipping adds a lot of distorted sound power to the signal and not having a reference means that just re-using the default sfx value probably leads to excessive in game volume.
It would be nice to know what reference volume PB uses as his default, 0db seems too quiet, i liked +1db ref with the standard Mura sfx script but i think that is still too quiet for some tastes.
OKay good info.
I will edit the bikes in MY GPB and Server for the MOTOGP set as that is what I haveup on the server and see.
DD
Quote from: h106frp on May 25, 2016, 10:28:43 AM
found this quote in a random PB guide 'mindistance is the distance under which volume is the max.'
So for the default Mura and Varese this value is;
scl = engine.scl
min_distance = 16
So i assume if you are within 16m of any bike(s) including your own you get the engine sound channel at full volume
I think that, more precisely, if you're under 16m you have no volume attenuation with distance, i.e. the volume is the same if the other bike is at 1m, 5m or 16m. Past 16m the volume will go down with distance (how exactly we don't know, it depends on what Piboso has chosen for that, doesn't really matter for our discussion). Paragraph 3.4: https://www.openal.org/documentation/openal-1.1-specification.pdf (https://www.openal.org/documentation/openal-1.1-specification.pdf)
But I reall struggle to see why we should have a 16m min_distance: if lowering it to 1m (or even less) makes the bike go too quiet when it's at (let's say) 20m, then the rolloff factor should be adjusted or a different attenuation model should be used (inverse vs exponential). Only Pib can do these.
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 25, 2016, 11:37:53 AMBut I reall struggle to see why we should have a 16m min_distance: if lowering it to 1m (or even less) makes the bike go too quiet when it's at (let's say) 20m, then the rolloff factor should be adjusted or a different attenuation model should be used (inverse vs exponential).
You're definitely not the only one struggling :D
It seems to work. At 2 it is too quiet though but much much better than getting your ears blown out lol. I can not adjust as I need to keep the server up so will do it later when nobody is on the server
Will try 4 next.
This makes me happy lol.
DD
EDIT: Thought I would see if it effected replays and it may also effect TV/Track cams. I will have to test it.
Iset the server bikes to 2 and left them there but changed mine first to 4 then to 6 and it made it louder each time without resetting the server to the save values. Also the other guys bikes were stock and on different bikes but I had altered ALL motoGP files to the same 2,4,6 and it works. Think 8 or 10 might be better then need to ride as been static to save time lol.
DD
It will depend on the mix of bike models and their default wav file level i suppose, but all bike of the same model will see the effect of the change.
If we understand the parameter correctly the neighboring bikes should get quieter as you reduce 'mindistance' for a given bike model.
How does the value effect 1P vs 3P view of your own bike? I am not sure how PB has treated the 1P case - it has the effect because you notice the volume change when you move the view with EDTracker. I wonder how many MOD points have correctly edited the source point for the exhaust/gearshift/transmission and brake sounds.
This seems to equate to the threshhold gain point in MaX's document where the distance no longer effects the attenuation value and the volume becomes constant - i guess PB normalizes the volume to this point hence the description for 'mindistance'
@DD you are in the unique position to resolve this now - its impossible without a server and multiple bikes and probably why no one has had a go.
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 25, 2016, 12:59:22 PM
Iset the server bikes to 2 and left them there but changed mine first to 4 then to 6 and it made it louder each time without resetting the server to the save values.
The server bikes you don't really care, as it's always the client "playing" the sound. So only changes to the client will affect it.
Quote from: h106frp on May 25, 2016, 01:29:55 PM
If we understand the parameter correctly the neighboring bikes should get quieter as you reduce 'mindistance' for a given bike model.
Correct.
Quote from: h106frp on May 25, 2016, 01:29:55 PM
How does the value effect 1P vs 3P view of your own bike? I am not sure how PB has treated the 1P case - it has the effect because you notice the volume change when you move the view with EDTracker.
Nothing special I'd say. If your head is within min_distance you're at gain = 1 (no distance attenuation), if it's farther you'll have attenuation.
Could be cool: if we had a source for the exhaust and one for the airbox (with different sounds and short min_distances), then when the rider tucks in you should hear more of the airbox and less of the exhaust.
Quote from: h106frp on May 25, 2016, 01:29:55 PM
I wonder how many MOD points have correctly edited the source point for the exhaust/gearshift/transmission and brake sounds.
Only the exhaust point can be significantly different across different bikes, but even this is not a big big problem.
I don't even know if we can have more exhaust points with different properties (like orientation, cone etc). I suspect we can't.
Quote from: h106frp on May 25, 2016, 01:29:55 PM
@DD you are in the unique position to resolve this now - its impossible without a server and multiple bikes and probably why no one has had a go.
Anybody can play with this, as you only need to change the sfx file on your client in order to check the effect.
Easy way: N >= 1 players on a server, all with the same bike. You join too, same bike but locally altered sfx.cfg: you will see (err, hear) the effect this has on your bike sound and on the others bikes' sound. The other player (if he has the stock sfx.cfg) will hear no difference.
Yep server dont do dick to sounds.
No effect on your own bike sound in either view but in replay I have to test more for TV/Track CAMS
I have change the values of all the bikes in motoGP set so I can test it and will now put them at different values including stock to have a reference sound and hear the difference without going in and out of the server
DD
EDIT: Acually I need someone who is willing to do a test as it is not as simple as you would think. Many cercumstances need to be tested to get iit right I think. 5 different bikes on the track spaced out in a line at same rpm so I can ride past each and see the difference, or something like that
So...............................
I will not effect replays from what I can find, seems normal.
I found 10 best compromise so far but it may be different for other bikes.
It is a personal preference and will not effect others as far as I can tell, nobody said anything to me yet lol.
It is fine for online
Try it and see
DD
Changing any sound parameters shouldn't affect anyone else accept the user who made the changes, so as far as I know it won't have any effect on server operations at all DD. ;)
Hawk.
Yep thatswhatI have foundandlike it lol
DD
sound levels seem about right sitting on the grid.. just the bike sounds in general need work, imo. Also i think alot of players sit there with the throttle pinned.. which you wouldn't really want to do without launch control.
That is not what this is about BOB, it is about when you are riding and someone gets close you can not hear your own motor and judge it properly. It is nothing to do with on the starting grid.
The sounds need MUCH improvement and a lot of guys have recently made some really better sounding bikes BUT it is not the quality of the sound, it is the drowning effect it has on your own motor from other bikes.
Pib said there is nothing that could be done but H found something simple that seems to help. I still need to test it a bit more to get it right though.
DD
but that's what i meant :) on the grid when everybody revs the nuts off the bikes.. (with the same bike lets say the varese 500) hard to pick out your own bike noise!
That's similar to how it is for real.. but obviously you get the vibration, different amount of revs, exhaust notes etc
In GPB it sounds like everyone is on full throttle.. Do a test? everyone hold the throttle at different revs? but no redlining...
After 6 bad gateways made it here lol.
Yeah thats also bad BOB but dont make you crash lol. I get totally fucked as I can not hear my revs and hae no feeling so I ease off the gas, bad thing , or just get stressed as I cant use the only thing I use for gear changes. I dont watch the tacho as I need to see where the hell I am going first lol.
I hope tommorow brings good results once I can get riding after having my windows fitted lol.
DD
yeah bad gateways ? ???
i always use me headphones, seems to be ok once the race gets underway.. the sound does move around, not sure if it does with speakers?
ps. but yeah i can't keep up with this forum lately lol pages of technical jibberish (to me lol ::) ;D)