hey ,
i noticed that you can't turn the handlebar while doing a wheelie . i would like to be able to turn the bike while wheelieing .
i think it is also more realistic if you can do that ! maybe for the next release ? :)
Quote from: camillozockt on April 21, 2014, 08:33:00 PM
hey ,
i noticed that you can't turn the handlebar while doing a wheelie . i would like to be able to turn the bike while wheelieing .
i think it is also more realistic if you can do that ! maybe for the next release ? :)
I absolutely agree, and I said much the same thing last year, but I don't think it was taken very seriously as it's not been put in the "TO-DO" list as far as I know?
But you are correct in saying that you should be able to turn the bike while the front end is in the air. There was something said about it creating a tank slapper when the front came back down while leaning, but it's done in real life, so why not in GP Bikes? It's just a little frustrating at times and can also cause you to crash the bike because it won't lean at all while the front end is in the air. I hope Piboso will integrate a fix in a future release :)
The problem is this: your stick in GPB controls the "target lean angle" not the handlebars directly: when the bike is wheeling, controlling the target lean angle is a bit tricky (in GPB as in real life).
Piboso has chosen the "safe approach": when wheeling the front wheel stays at neutral, so that when the front wheel lands back on the ground, there's not danger of a tankslapper (that can happen if the front wheel lands not perfectly aligned).
I do think something could be done in order to allow you to have some control on the leaning while wheeling, but there are two issues: one, it may be very complex (while wheeling the bike dynamics is very different hence the task of the virtual rider is not easy) and two, it may turn out to be extremely difficult to avoid the tank slapper once the player is allowed to lean (and turn the handlebar) while wheeling.
MaX.
I think this is already in the game.. Sort of!
I guess you mean make it more controllable?
Some tracks like paul ricard, last corner entering the straight, hard on the gas with the bike cranked over, the front wheel lifts! The bars snap left!
But im still able to turn!
Bars straighten up abit before the wheel touches the ground! Thats quite realistic!
If you pop a casual wheelie theres no chance to control anything lol
If it got tweaked to be able to control this would that mess up other things with the handling?
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 08, 2014, 12:41:05 AM
Some tracks like paul ricard, last corner entering the straight, hard on the gas with the bike cranked over, the front wheel lifts! The bars snap left!
But im still able to turn!
If you have a video or better a replay file of you doing that I'd like to have a look.
MaX.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 08, 2014, 12:41:05 AM
Some tracks like paul ricard, last corner entering the straight, hard on the gas with the bike cranked over, the front wheel lifts! The bars snap left!
But im still able to turn!
Bars straighten up abit before the wheel touches the ground! Thats quite realistic!
What bike were you riding?.... Because whenever I've had the front wheel in the air the bike will not turn at all, just keeps going in the same direction from the moment the front wheel lifted into the air, has caused many a crash for me. So I would like to know how and with which bike you achieved this? :)
During my Direct Steer with Torque tests. You can steer the front wheel and lean when doing a wheelie. Though the steering instantly becomes the opposite then when the front wheel is off the ground.
Quote from: Klax75 on May 08, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
During my Direct Steer with Torque tests. You can steer the front wheel and lean when doing a wheelie. Though the steering instantly becomes the opposite then when the front wheel is off the ground.
With direct steer is normal, but without I'd like to see.
MaX.
Ok I will try to make a replay video!
I have 2 short video's of paul ricard already on youtube but they are very bad quality.. Also its onboard footage.
BOBR684 - Youtube.
I will make a new replay video this weekend.
Do you mean ''Direct Lean'' ? I tried turning it on but it just locks as soon as the front wheel is in the air !!
and it also feels like an arcade game with direct lean on !! :o
Quote from: camillozockt on May 08, 2014, 05:25:18 PM
Do you mean ''Direct Lean'' ? I tried turning it on but it just locks as soon as the front wheel is in the air !!
and it also feels like an arcade game with direct lean on !! :o
No, he means direct steer, that's a different animal.
I won't comment about your perception of direct lean ON ... I've lost all hope on the subject. Yawn.
MaX.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 08, 2014, 05:18:54 PM
Ok I will try to make a replay video!
I have 2 short video's of paul ricard already on youtube but they are very bad quality.. Also its onboard footage.
BOBR684 - Youtube.
I will make a new replay video this weekend.
Look forward to this. I might even be convinced to convert to Direct Steer myself? :D
What is direct steer? Lol
I cant remember the list of things u can have on or off..
I have all assists off I think other than rider weight forward/back. Rider weight left/right.
Is rider weight left/right direct steer?
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 08, 2014, 08:39:29 PM
What is direct steer? Lol
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0)
In gpb your "steering" stick dictates the target lean angle of the bike (with Direct Lean ON or OFF, doesn't matter).
Direct Steer allows you to use your "steering" stick to dictate:
- the handlebar target angle, or
- the handlebar torque
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 08, 2014, 08:39:29 PM
I cant remember the list of things u can have on or off..
Can't help with that.
Er, actually yes, I can: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.0)
Section 1.5 for the controls.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 08, 2014, 08:39:29 PM
Is rider weight left/right direct steer?
No, what you call "rider weight left/right" is rider lean (left/right, forward/backward).
Direct lean is something else.
Direct steer (in its two different flavors) is something else else.
MaX.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 08, 2014, 08:39:29 PM
What is direct steer? Lol
I cant remember the list of things u can have on or off..
I have all assists off I think other than rider weight forward/back. Rider weight left/right.
Is rider weight left/right direct steer?
I could be wrong, but I thought it was a way of controlling the steering of the bike directly without any inputs(help) from the virtual rider, which in my mind would be a great thing as the virtual rider usually acts like he's half pissed out of his brain a lot of the time anyway. Lol
EDIT: Looks like Max posted same time as me..... Nice explanation Max. ;)
Lol!! :)
Thanks Max!
U explain it well but il have to take a look at my control setup in the morning!
Im not sure now how its set up lol
I've just copied the Direct Steer with torque code into my "Profile.cfg" file. I presume Piboso mean't that file as I could find a .ini file in my profile folder?
Quote from: Hawk_UK on May 08, 2014, 11:31:03 PM
I've just copied the Direct Steer with torque code into my "Profile.cfg" file. I presume Piboso mean't that file as I could find a .ini file in my profile folder?
The file is definitely named profile.ini (not .cfg). And your english sucks Hawk ... your last sentence is mindbending !! Mean't !? WTF ;D
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 08, 2014, 11:42:18 PM
The file is definitely named profile.ini (not .cfg).
Either I'm looking in the wrong place or my "Profile.ini" is called "Profile.cfg". I've included a picture below to show you.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7394/14141068105_51f44753de_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nxAET4)
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 08, 2014, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on May 08, 2014, 11:31:03 PM
I've just copied the Direct Steer with torque code into my "Profile.cfg" file. I presume Piboso mean't that file as I could find a .ini file in my profile folder?
And your english sucks Hawk ... your last sentence is mindbending !! Mean't !? WTF ;D
MaX.
Lol... Sorry Max. The correct spelling is "meant", and I meant to say, "That I couldn't find the .ini file in my GP Bikes Profile, so I presume Piboso(in his post) meant to say "profile.cfg" and not "Profile.ini"?
All I can say is that my mind feels like mush and I can hardly keep my eyes open, never-mind type correctly. Time for a good kip before I start speaking(or should I say typing) double dutch. Good night guys. ;) ;D
Quote from: Hawk_UK on May 09, 2014, 12:20:06 AM
Either I'm looking in the wrong place or my "Profile.ini" is called "Profile.cfg". I've included a picture below to show you.
You are the last victim of the very stupid windows feature "hide known extensions".
Your file is profile.ini, trust me. But as the extension is hidden you look at the icon and you imply that it's a .cfg. Which, of course, is not.
The person who has designed this wonderful windows feature should get a life sentence for crime against humanity. Or should work for Apple :)
MaX.
I've practice a lot with Direct Steer with Torque. I prefer Direct Steer with Torque, since you can use the bikes engine to help you lift the bike when coming out of turns. It's a lot different experience, the bike will not pick itself up. And it's very hard to be able to tell what the limit of your lean is (I ride in helmet view) is it impossible? No, but is very difficult. The bike does not change lean angles as fast as default steering, so your thinking a head before you make the turn. You also have to opposite steer during the turn to keep the bike in your lean angle or the bike will just fall over.
Quote from: Klax75 on May 09, 2014, 02:23:48 AM
You also have to opposite steer during the turn to keep the bike in your lean angle or the bike will just fall over.
The "opposite steer" is because, most likely, you have "reversed" the applied torque (i.e. stick left = torque right ==> bikes leans left).
Because on a bike in a right turn, to prevent it from falling inside, you have to steer right.
A week ago (after our short PM exchange) I gave direct steer torque/angle a quick try again and I was surprised to notice too that the lean angle chnages are way slower than with the conventional control method. I really don't see any reason why that should be the case. Maybe something for Piboso to look into.
Again, hats down for being able to even use this on a joypad.
MaX.
I tried direct steer with torque yesterday. I found it very awkward to use, not only because it is way different to the normal control of the bike, but mainly because when you lean into a corner, from about 50 deg+ the bike just wants to fall over into the corner, were on a real bike the lean angle is compensated by the g force(I think that's right?) trying to upright the bike, therefore there is just no feel whatsoever to judge this way of control in my personal opinion. Maybe if you were determined enough to practice, practice, and then practice some more then you might be able to get used to it, but even then you'd be at a massive disadvantage to others using the normal ways to control a bike.
This is because you have no force feedback on the torque you're applying. To me, dir steer torque without force feedback is borderline masochist :)
When I discussed this stuff with Piboso, we seemed to agree (incredible !!) on the fact that direct steer angle (not torque) has more chances to be usable, at least in principle. But then ... even stating is so complicate it really turns you down ....
MaX.
My left thumbstick controls the bike lean.. And thats it.
Handlebars take care of themselves lol.
I will have to try this direct steer with torque!
Are you saying we can counter steer with this?
In theory counter steering allows you to tip into a corner faster! Also should help with direction changes!
Im uploading a little slo-mo video of the last corner at paul ricard!
I tried to do it as I explained but its not quite what I wanted! Il keep trying until I get it right! ;)
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 09, 2014, 10:11:59 PM
My left thumbstick controls the bike lean.. And thats it.
Handlebars take care of themselves lol.
Sure, because you don't use direct steer: you only dictate the (target) lean angle and the "virtual rider" takes care of doing whatever is necessary with the handlebars to reach the lean angle you want.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 09, 2014, 10:11:59 PM
I will have to try this direct steer with torque!
Are you saying we can counter steer with this?
In theory counter steering allows you to tip into a corner faster! Also should help with direction changes!
Yes, with direct steer (torque or angle) you have to counter-steer. Notice however that without direct steer, the "virtual rider" counter-steers for you.
So don't expect any advantage with respect to that.
MaX.
Well.. this is what i got..
not quite there but its different every lap.. il try to get more angle so the bars move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyQTAb3ipNQ
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 09, 2014, 11:25:20 PM
Well.. this is what i got..
not quite there but its different every lap.. il try to get more angle so the bars move.
In that video the bars are centered (except maybe the very first moments after the wheelie started).
No surprise, as Piboso stated that this is what he does: wheelie --> bars go to center.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 09, 2014, 11:25:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyQTAb3ipNQ
How to embed a video (pay attention to the syntax of the address, it's not the default one):
[flash=400,300]http://www.youtube.com/v/oyQTAb3ipNQ[/flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/oyQTAb3ipNQ
MaX.
ok thanks.
i see what you guys are saying now anyway.. :)
do You have any videos showcasing direct lean?
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on May 10, 2014, 12:02:10 AM
do You have any videos showcasing direct lean?
You mean direct steering ?
There's a video from Klax75:
http://www.youtube.com/v/oFKCEcGFipo
If you look carefully at 1:12-1:15 (download the video and play it slow motion) you can see the front wheel going up a bit with the front wheel not aligned: it then gets realigned (violently) when it touches the track back again.
You can also see that it's very very difficult to ride around with direct steer.
MaX.