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GP Bikes => Bug Reports => Topic started by: PeterV on August 10, 2014, 04:33:07 PM

Title: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: PeterV on August 10, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
I have expressed this earlier in one or two other topics, and i thought i just show you all what i mean.
Makes it a lot easier to explain by just viewing the 2 videos.

The problem for me is that on throttle it just stutters like you have TC or other electronics on but with this class its not the case.
I can just go full throttle down the waterfall section for instance and it just stutters all the way.
If i go off track...on curbs or strokes beside the main track surfsace then its fine.

Does anyone alse have this or am i alone?
(I also have this on some other tracks like, Monza (1 corner), Suzuka)

Video 1                                                                                                                     Video 2
Trackview where you can hear the stuttering going on.                                          Free view and a look at the throttle hand, which also stutters.

https://www.youtube.com/v/xPA0QVGg4c4                            https://www.youtube.com/v/gloM-RlHBXA
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: Toomes1 on August 10, 2014, 04:39:28 PM
Ever since beta4b came out, not as bad in 5b but you couldn't have explained it better.
Same for Monza and Suzuka.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: Hawk on August 10, 2014, 05:14:52 PM
Does it do this with the Varese 500 too? I notice your using the NSR 500.
I ask because I cannot remember this happening when I have used the Varese 500(haven't tried with any MOD bikes.).

I'll have to try this and see if it does happen for me.

Hawk.

Edit: Just tested this myself and I don't get any stuttering like in your videos at all on the Varese or the NSR.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: PeterV on August 10, 2014, 06:57:25 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on August 10, 2014, 05:14:52 PM
Edit: Just tested this myself and I don't get any stuttering like in your videos at all on the Varese or the NSR.
Im gonna test it now with NSR and VARESE but will be the same i think because its the same physics anyway. back in a jiffy :p

Edit: Just tested this myself and It is the same for all bikes.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: Ian on August 10, 2014, 07:23:36 PM
You should try the 125 at Sachsenring with traction help control and anti wheelie help(I swapped from the 500 and forgot to turn them off)
It is almost constant when your on the throttle and you can see it in the MaxHUD input readout


Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: PeterV on August 10, 2014, 08:46:18 PM
Oke i drove again after checking my simulation settings, TC was off. (which it should be cause its 500cc)
But i had wheelie help ON, i have set this to off, and this did the trick for all the tracks i had problems on.
I never thought about setting this too off, because i thought it would not have an impact on the 500 class.
But as i see it now, its a game setting and not a bike specific setting. Still find it strange that it behaves that
way with wheeling help on, its help for controlling wheelie no TC which it acts like too me in the 500 class.

No more stuttering on Monza, Suzuka and Sachsenring.
Thx for the heads up Ian. I would not have seen it....even with Xray vision  :-[ ;D



Below the Simulation settings i have set now.. (just turned wheeling help off, rest was off already).

(http://i.imgur.com/9QfL55o.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/9QfL55o.jpg)

Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: Ian on August 10, 2014, 09:37:32 PM
I wonder if this is a problem with the track surface or a bug in the wheelie help
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: Alby46 on August 11, 2014, 06:54:47 AM
i would go with wheelie help
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 07:57:56 AM
Quote from: PeterV on August 10, 2014, 08:46:18 PM
Oke i drove again after checking my simulation settings, TC was off. (which it should be cause its 500cc)
Just to avoid confusion, TC is a bike property (the 990 has it with multiple levels, 500 and 125 do not have it).
What you see OFF in your screen is Traction help.

MaX.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: PeterV on August 11, 2014, 08:18:00 AM
Quote from: Ian on August 10, 2014, 09:37:32 PM
I wonder if this is a problem with the track surface or a bug in the wheelie help
Should this be put in the bugs section?
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 07:57:56 AM
What you see OFF in your screen is Traction help.
Yes ty Max. 2 different things indeed.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: Alby46 on August 11, 2014, 11:11:01 AM
Quote from: PeterV on August 11, 2014, 08:18:00 AM
Should this be put in the bugs section?
maybe, just to verify if it's a bug or not
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: janaucarre on August 11, 2014, 11:38:11 AM
Hello,
Most of us know that there is the same problem at the out of ascari at monzabike, so i have re-exported from 3ds the same track and tried it without dynamic surface and no more problem.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 11:48:34 AM
Quote from: janaucarre on August 11, 2014, 11:38:11 AM
Hello,
Most of us know that there is the same problem at the out of ascari at monzabike, so i have re-exported from 3ds the same track and tried it without dynamic surface and no more problem.
Just to be sure we all understand it right:
Is the above correct ?

If it is the case, it's definitely worth an investigation: I don't see any reason why dynamic surface ON or OFF should make any difference with respect to stuttering when wheeling help is ON.

MaX.

Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: Hawk on August 11, 2014, 12:11:32 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 11:48:34 AM
Quote from: janaucarre on August 11, 2014, 11:38:11 AM
Hello,
Most of us know that there is the same problem at the out of ascari at monzabike, so i have re-exported from 3ds the same track and tried it without dynamic surface and no more problem.

If it is the case, it's definitely worth an investigation: I don't see any reason why dynamic surface ON or OFF should make any difference with respect to stuttering when wheeling help is ON.

MaX.

I agree with you Max..... I too cannot see why a dynamic surface on or off would cause the bike engines to stutter and if so, like you say, it's worth investigating more.

But my bikes certainly don't stutter on my install with "Wheelie Help"(in the simulation settings) set to "Off" on any track. I think it's just a case of Piboso hasn't any definition for wheelie help being available or not depending on which bikes are being used? Maybe the people who are continuing to have this issue need to double check their bike "Simulation" settings and make sure they are not confusing this with the "Garage" setting for "Anti Wheelie"?  :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: PeterV on August 11, 2014, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 11:48:34 AM
Just to be sure we all understand it right:

  • Wheeling help OFF: no stuttering, no matter if with or without dynamic surface
  • Wheeling help ON:

    • WITH dynamic surface --> stuttering
    • WITHOUT dynamic surface --> no stuttering
Is the above correct ?

I can not confirm this at this time, i have to test it on laguna seca, i dont have the other tracks without dynamic surface.
I will be back with my findings shortly.

MaX.


Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 12:20:09 PM
As far as I know, wheelie help is available for all the bikes (and scooters). It's totally unrelated to what the bike's electronics can/can't do: it's a "game help" (i.e. not a bike property/feature).
Same goes for "traction help" and anything under the page "Simulation/Riding aids".

So the fact it doesn't stutter with wheeling help off is OK. But the fact with wheelie help on it stutters with dyn surf and it doesn't stutter without dyn surf (if confirmed), that'd be very weird. Worth an investigation as it may reveal/be tied to a bigger issue. Again, only if janaucarre/PeterV can confirm that.

MaX.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: janaucarre on August 11, 2014, 12:21:38 PM

Hello,
I made little tests right now with the varese and the murasama at monzabike V3 without dynamic surface.

500cc:
wheeling help enabled --> problem
wheeling help disabled --> good
traction help enabled    --> good
traction help disabled    --> good

1000CC:
wheeling help enabled --> problem
wheeling help disabled --> good
traction help enabled    --> good
traction help disabled    --> good

TCS enabled                   --> good
TCS disabled                   --> good
Antiwheeling enabled      --> problem
Antiwheeling enabled      --> good


So it is definitively a wheeling system problem, i never notice it before on a 500CC because i never use the wheeling help.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 12:27:42 PM
OK, so with/without dyn surf doesn't make a difference. No weird bug around that, w00t! :)

If having wheelie help or anti-wheeling do show the problem, I'd be tempted to say it's just a consequence of beta5: if the bike tends to wheelie more (I guess we all agree on that), then you'll see the anti-wheelie stuff (wheelie help or anti-wheeling) kick in more than before.

Likely, once the beta5 issue that originated some strange stuff (*) is solved, we should be back on track (hehe, little pun intended).

MaX.

(*)
Too much rider weight displacements, unconfirmed.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: Ian on August 11, 2014, 12:34:24 PM
I am puzzled by the throttle hand moving in PeterV  video
Its almost if the rider is the wheelie help  ;D
Maybe the throttle/hand animation is some way related to revs and not user input.

Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: PeterV on August 11, 2014, 12:49:49 PM
Quote from: janaucarre on August 11, 2014, 12:21:38 PM

Hello,
I made little tests right now with the varese and the murasama at monzabike V3 without dynamic surface.

500cc:
wheeling help enabled --> problem
wheeling help disabled --> good
traction help enabled    --> good
traction help disabled    --> good

1000CC:
wheeling help enabled --> problem
wheeling help disabled --> good
traction help enabled    --> good
traction help disabled    --> good

TCS enabled                   --> good
TCS disabled                   --> good
Antiwheeling enabled      --> problem
Antiwheeling enabled      --> good


So it is definitively a wheeling system problem, i never notice it before on a 500CC because i never use the wheeling help.

Tested it on Laguna seca v1.0 and Laguna Seca v1.0 S  with 500 same findings.

Wheeling Help OFF -> No stutters, Dont matter if it's dynamic surface or not
Wheeling Help ON -> Stutters, Don't matter if it's dynamic surface or not

Quote from: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 12:27:42 PM
If having wheelie help or anti-wheeling do show the problem, I'd be tempted to say it's just a consequence of beta5: if the bike tends to wheelie more (I guess we all agree on that), then you'll see the anti-wheelie stuff (wheelie help or anti-wheeling) kick in more than before.

Agree, but stuttering with wheeling help ON also happens when going on downhill sections (waterfall sachsenring, corkscrew laguna down) where you  would not pull a wheelie, maybe lift the tire a little but thats stuff Max is good at unraveling and explaining ;D.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: HornetMaX on August 11, 2014, 01:17:11 PM
Quote from: PeterV on August 11, 2014, 12:49:49 PM
Agree, but stuttering with wheeling help ON also happens when going on downhill sections (waterfall sachsenring, corkscrew laguna down) where you  would not pull a wheelie, maybe lift the tire a little but thats stuff Max is good at unraveling and explaining ;D.
Even in a downhill section, if the front is not touching the ground, technically you're wheeling.

I'm under the impression all the riding aids (wheeling help, brake help, traction help) could be vastly improved with little effort, but that's not what Piboso wants (and I'd tend to agree): these helps are there to help people when they start with GPB and they are not supposed to be sophisticated. For example, the wheelie help is not supposed to be as sophisticated as a real anti-wheeling (e.g. on a motogp bike). Same for the traction help versus the bike's TC.

So using the wheelie help (or the braking help, or the traction help) usually makes you slower compared to somebody that do not need these helps: I think this is intended.

Just don't use them :)

MaX.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: PeterV on August 13, 2014, 11:45:20 AM
After driving on Snetterton with the GP500 with NO Wheeling Help, i thought i try it also with Wheeling Help ON.
On Snetterton it does not stutter at all, On or OFF with Wheeling Help does not make a difference there.
So you would start to think the track surface is the cause or at least has something to do with it.

Ill keep trying it out with other tracks as well.
Title: Re: [GPBikes] NC Sachsenring stuttering
Post by: janaucarre on August 13, 2014, 12:11:20 PM
I think the problems begin at specific lean of the asphalt, snetterton has not curve with exterior higher than the interior. Perhaps the dynamic surface makes also strange things at the junction of certain parts like the asphalt and the kerbs. That´strange because only certain part have problems and not all along the track.