Great rear end feel but on the exit of high speed corners the bike wobbles and crashes.
im actualy start to love them the only thing i would say max tcs cut the bike too much i guess
Quote from: Daniel_F on November 15, 2014, 05:26:35 PM
im actualy start to love them the only thing i would say max tcs cut the bike too much i guess
yes...Honda and Kawasaki traction control is wrong......TC on 3 is to much and on 2 is like nothing
Quote from: Abigor on November 15, 2014, 05:53:07 PM
Quote from: Daniel_F on November 15, 2014, 05:26:35 PM
im actualy start to love them the only thing i would say max tcs cut the bike too much i guess
yes...Honda and Kawasaki traction control is wrong......TC on 3 is to much and on 2 is like nothing
No need to use TCS, only very little if you race in the wet, much more fun without and i feel i can go faster without, when it doesn't cut the power out of corners ;) :D
Quote from: vin97 on November 15, 2014, 04:44:04 PM
Great rear end feel but on the exit of high speed corners the bike wobbles and crashes.
I suck generally and don't have this problem?
What are your suspension and spring settings?
Quote from: vin97 on November 15, 2014, 04:44:04 PM
Great rear end feel but on the exit of high speed corners the bike wobbles and crashes.
???the stk are bikes with less wobble,only the bmw has some problems i think (but maybe is only setup problem). but,attention,it is not good to judge an entire bikeset of 9 motorcycle after having guided only one.
Quote from: FastFreddy on December 13, 2014, 12:20:10 PM
Quote from: vin97 on November 15, 2014, 04:44:04 PM
Great rear end feel but on the exit of high speed corners the bike wobbles and crashes.
???the stk are bikes with less wobble,only the bmw has some problems i think (but maybe is only setup problem). but,attention,it is not good to judge an entire bikeset of 9 motorcycle after having guided only one.
I agree with Freddie in that it's only the BMW that has major wobble problems, but with good setup this reduces greatly, but is still there to a degree especially on rising gradients while accelerating.
But compared to the R1 the BMW is a right bucking bronco to handle. Lol
Hawk.
well in my opinion the worse bikes would be the honda and the kawa but then again with train and setup changes all are pretty much ridable... what i dont like is the difference bettwen bikes some so easy and some so hard i guess (what it makes is that everyone will go pick the same bike)...
Quote from: Daniel_F on December 13, 2014, 07:02:22 PM
well in my opinion the worse bikes would be the honda and the kawa but then again with train and setup changes all are pretty much ridable... what i dont like is the difference bettwen bikes some so easy and some so hard i guess (what it makes is that everyone will go pick the same bike)...
:o
lol .. the kawa is my favorite after rsv4. I do not find it so difficult,in fact, is very stable and fast. But it is very relative,depends on the rider.
thats why it was my opinion m8 ;) u dont need to make me look like an idiot to give yours
For me the rsv4, zx10 and r1 are the best three bikes. Ducatis are ok but i struggle to ride them. BMW is very unrealistic, Honda just feels weird and the suzuki i found unrideable. i have found the front end to wobble alot, back like in beta4 iirc.. but smoother steering input defeats it i found.
I do also think the Kawa (the only stk i have tried) moves like hell. I think if you setup a bike suspension at max values, shouldn't move like that. I can only compare it to a harley davidson not a race bike. Apart of being a good setup or not, shouldn't dance like a wave. I never felt like that on my zx6 ninja.
Please guys don't take me wrong, i do know Odi did a good job with real data , but gpb doesn't manage it well. The only bikes i feel more realistic are moto2, that also has the tank slapper behaviour same as all other bikes.
I ride onboard view, where is waay more evident.
Quote from: Warlock on December 14, 2014, 02:35:39 PM
I do also think the Kawa (the only stk i have tried) moves like hell. I think if you setup a bike suspension at max values, shouldn't move like that. I can only compare it to a harley davidson not a race bike. Apart of being a good setup or not, shouldn't dance like a wave. I never felt like that on my zx6 ninja.
Please guys don't take me wrong, i do know Odi did a good job with real data , but gpb doesn't manage it well. The only bikes i feel more realistic are moto2, that also has the tank slapper behaviour same as all other bikes.
I ride onboard view, where is waay more evident.
+1 very fair, compared with rocking chairs.Yes moto 2 is good.
Quote from: Warlock on December 14, 2014, 02:35:39 PM
I do also think the Kawa (the only stk i have tried)
Wow. What funny comments in this forum.
Moto2 is like driving motogp14 in my opinion, No difference, but tastes are tastes. The choice is yours ;)
I'm not interested in making mods for noobs who do not know how to set up a motorcycle. Bikes that moves "like hell"? increases the rebound, this is what do a person who understand motorcycles.
Quote from: _oDi_ on December 14, 2014, 02:57:33 PM
Wow. What funny comments in this forum.
Moto2 is like driving motogp14 in my opinion, No difference, but tastes are tastes. The choice is yours ;)
I'm not interested in making mods for noobs who do not know how to set up a motorcycle. Bikes that moves "like hell"? increases the rebound, this is what do a person who understand motorcycles.
Odi you are not being very fair with me. We know each other long time ago, i've been here from alpha7, You should know that what i want from GPB is pure realism. You don't need to call me noob . I know what rebound means ;) and it does not stop the bike bouncing even at max setting.
I have a real bike, i know how a bike feels, and is not like riding a monocycle with one spring suspension. It's much , much more stable. And don't tell me i don't ride a real bike with a controller, i already know that. What i'm talking about is the bike suspension feeling.
Quote from: Warlock on December 14, 2014, 02:35:39 PM
I do know Odi did a good job with real data , but gpb doesn't manage it well.
I think you missed this sentence. I explain it, maybe you didn't understood:
Its not your fault, its how GPB manages the bike data.
Sorry but for me it is very offensive what I read. Because you can not throw in the trash an entire bikeset of 9 bikes having experienced only one, and say "I prefer the moto2". It is not correct to me that I always try to adapte credible data to gpbikes physics.
Quote from: _oDi_ on December 14, 2014, 04:50:23 PM
Because you can not throw in the trash an entire bikeset of 9 bikes having experienced only one, and say "I prefer the moto2".
I 'm not talking about the entire bikeset, i'm talking about the bike i have used, and i said it's NOT YOUR FAULT, i said YOU DID A GOOD JOB. I'm blaming GPBikes physics, not your work.
Also, moto2 bikeset took many work from other people who knows what he is doing, and you are comparing it with motogp14.
Seems i can't question your work (what i'm not doing), but you can question others work, not very fair.....
Anyway,... peace, it's just my opinion.
Quote from: _oDi_ on December 14, 2014, 02:57:33 PM
I'm not interested in making mods for noobs who do not know how to set up a motorcycle. Bikes that moves "like hell"? increases the rebound, this is what do a person who understand motorcycles.
:o :o :o
That comment is ... humm ... bad. Actually, knowing it was addressed to Warlock, it's worse than bad.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 14, 2014, 08:28:28 PM
:o :o :o
That comment is ... humm ... bad. Actually, knowing it was addressed to Warlock, it's worse than bad.
MaX.
Not so bad if you read the previous comments. however, I will not discuss this with you.
Quote from: Warlock on December 14, 2014, 05:27:50 PM
Also, moto2 bikeset took many work from other people who knows what he is doing, and you are comparing it with motogp14.
Seems i can't question your work (what i'm not doing), but you can question others work, not very fair.....
Anyway,... peace, it's just my opinion.
Depends on how works are questioned. Here the only ones who analyze every single paragraph of my works is people on this forum. I have never spoken on the work of others (because everyone is free to work as he wants according to his style and his taste) , but if someone compares so barbaric and without going deep, my work with others, decreeing that others are better, I get angry a little ', is normal.
peace.
Quote from: _oDi_ on December 14, 2014, 09:16:18 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 14, 2014, 08:28:28 PM
:o :o :o
That comment is ... humm ... bad. Actually, knowing it was addressed to Warlock, it's worse than bad.
MaX.
Not so bad if you read the previous comments.
I've read the previous comments (of course), and your one still sounds bad.
Warlock is saying the kawa in his opinion moves too much: don't see why he should be called noob (especially when we all here know he's far from that).
Your work is very good (also thanks to some help other modders may not enjoy) and comes in tons, so it's all good for us. No need to go ballistic on a simple remark.
Quote from: _oDi_ on December 14, 2014, 09:16:18 PM
however, I will not discuss this with you.
Fine to me.
MaX.
ODI
response of noobs (me), before criticizing people, learning to use the physical tire, tires SC1 and SC2 Supercorsa, short-term endurance of four hours in the simulation, 10 minutes..... :o
It is normal to opine of bikesets , just as is done with the GPB , because everything is not perfect and there are mistakes, but you can always get positive things of opinions .
Many talk about that with a good setup , all problems are removed ... I doubt it. But even so , any real bike, with the worst setup of the world makes no wobbles .
No talk of STK, speak in general almost all bikes of Gpb have problems for wobbles .
My solution for wobbles ...Front suspension , all at minimum ( soft), compression and rebound to 1 .Suspension rear all at almost the maximum (hard ) , compression and rebound to the fullest.
If that is doing a good setup ... do that on a real motorcycle, see what happens.
Quote from: yoshimura on December 15, 2014, 05:25:00 PM
ODI
response of noobs (me), before criticizing people, learning to use the physical tire, tires SC1 and SC2 Supercorsa, short-term endurance of four hours in the simulation, 10 minutes..... :o
:o ??? :o
Aaaaah... maybe I understand:
Yes, probabilly that's why we do race of 13 laps.
Quote from: Jose Reina on December 16, 2014, 10:20:37 PM
It is normal to opine of bikesets , just as is done with the GPB , because everything is not perfect and there are mistakes, but you can always get positive things of opinions .
Not really, not here. If I need opinions, i know who to ask.
I dont ask money for this, so i don't have to account to anyone.
And if a mod is not shared on a forum, people should learn to respect the will of the author.
Im still convinced GPB needs an in game adjustable steering damper!
A slider in the bike setup page.. To adjust as needed.
If I ride onboard with ANY bike available in gpbikes.. The bars flap around constantly.. Very unattractive and off putting.
Apart from that.. Gpbikes and all the modded content is frickin awesome!!
I learn something everytime I do laps! Which is a big compliment to the physics! Other games can be easily mastered.. Not gpbikes lol.
I admire the work of italy team made the players confidence, perfection does not exist, but we are here to give advice, without criticizing. ;)
PS: damage mod supermotard not playable on gp :'( :'(
Have to add my 2cents worth here as I have to say I am amazed at some people not realizing how MUCH work and LONG hours these modders put in to make something for FREE for ALL of us. I take my hats off to them all. THANK YOU TO ALL MODDERS. The Italin guys and all that work with them have given us GREAT bikes and a chance to NOT have to use the standard bikes.
I have to agree with BOB that it should be an in game adjustment for steering damping, it would cure many such problems as wobble.
To those who wish to comment on mod bikes, PLEASE keep it nice and think before you write something about a mod bike. I think also many people forget that there is a language barrier and sometimes someone will write something in a way it is miss understood because English is not their native language.
We all need to just have a bit more understanding and let kids argue in the playground and not on this forum.
Keep it sunny side up guys!!!
DD
The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.
Quote from: doubledragoncc on December 17, 2014, 03:49:16 PM
Have to add my 2cents worth here as I have to say I am amazed at some people not realizing how MUCH work and LONG hours these modders put in to make something for FREE for ALL of us. I take my hats off to them all. THANK YOU TO ALL MODDERS. The Italin guys and all that work with them have given us GREAT bikes and a chance to NOT have to use the standard bikes.
I have to agree with BOB that it should be an in game adjustment for steering damping, it would cure many such problems as wobble.
To those who wish to comment on mod bikes, PLEASE keep it nice and think before you write something about a mod bike. I think also many people forget that there is a language barrier and sometimes someone will write something in a way it is miss understood because English is not their native language.
We all need to just have a bit more understanding and let kids argue in the playground and not on this forum.
Keep it sunny side up guys!!!
DD
Thanks for the appreciation, but do not worry! We are used to make us do the x-ray files haha. this makes us even more determined.
I forgot! thanks for the 2Cents ... ha ha by m8! I'll see you on the track.
Hope I dont get to see you on the track only if I look back lol, but hope you'll be using one of my new systems if I do.
@Piboso...........Oh so true dude throttle needs to be treated with respect and not just on and off. Thats why all my systems use a real throttle and have 4096 bits from Closed to Fully Open. It makes the action so smooth and precise. Its the same for steering, I can truly Point the bike where I want to go!!! no flopping about as with a non precise game pad, which is its drawback. I hope to talk more in person at some point about this.
DD
Quote from: PiBoSo on December 17, 2014, 04:52:33 PM
The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.
Over the years I've ridden a little bit of everything and I'm still yet to find a bike that is dead stable when being pushed. I'm unsure what the community expects of a 160+hp liter bike when going wide open on the throttle and steering back and forth. I've never once been wide open on a high power bike and didn't have some instability or some weave or wobble. The sim as it sits is pretty realistic and without the wobbles and bike chassis feedback I'm unsure it would be any different than all the other bike titles around the consoles and PC.
I recall playing Tourist Trophy back when it was new, and any of the 1000's would head shake violently under full throttle acceleration out of a corner or over bumps on the track, just that the physics "dumbed down" the rear end following what the front end was doing. A few years later when I discovered TT Superbikes and the bikes went into violent upset wobbles given half a chance to do so, I was floored by the realism of having to decide where, and how hard to push the bike.
GP Bikes represents the instability and difficulty of handling a real bike at the limit. I'm unsure how many people complaining about the behavior have actually gone out and pushed a liter bike hard enough to find the instability in them. Thrashing the controls in an attempt at a fast lap or high speed corner exit is as real as I can see it getting on GP Bikes, just because "real data" is used doesn't mean the underlying sim is the problem, I think it is the way the bikes are ridden that causes issues as I've yet to find a bike that wobbles uncontrollably.
My main issue with the STK set is the power, just like real life they are so incredibly over the top powerful that almost anything I do results in a crash. From my 900RR to a borrowed K7 GSXR1000 I've got about as much skill handling the limit of those bikes in real life as I do on GP Bikes. I think it's the rider and not the bike that is causing the problems here.
Quote from: PiBoSo on December 17, 2014, 04:52:33 PM
The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.
True, but where my bike competition here ?, because what most resembles something real is a pad or G25 ... I doubt anyone has a bike at home connected to the PC to see the "reality" of a motorcycle competition.
A real bike pushed to its limits, moves unless either motorbikes Gpb to 1/4 throttle ...
In short ... Real Moto:
Sensitivity in all aspects
Touch on the accelerator
Touch in brake and hardness of it if you want to stop more or less
Pilot weight and its distribution to stabilize the bike.
Feeling of grip at the front and rear wheel.
Many more factors ...
At home:
Logitech Pad to rotate, raise / lower speed, inclination of the pilot.
Logitech G25 pedals for accelerator, brake and clutch in.
Touch in acceleration 0, do not feel the bike when I accelerate.
Touch in brake 0, do not feel the brake when I accelerate, nor is hard to stop or so.
With my body I can not stabilize the bike.
I have no feeling of grip of the wheels.
Many more factors ...
I think we all know what a real motorcycle, and how it leads. This is a simulator (Best Motorcycle), and simulates a real bike, which should conform to the controls we have. You can take a real bike with a Pad ...
Although I really like the Gpb, I feel it has stability problems, braking and engine retention.
It's just my opinion, I do not speak of the STK 1000, I speak in general Gpb.
Google translator.
Quote from: PiBoSo on December 17, 2014, 04:52:33 PM
The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.
I agree.. Throttle control is very important! Beta6 has better throttle response imo.. Now I rarely hit 100% throttle over a lap.. Lean angle rev's change gives nice throttle response when the bike is leant over.
Even on the 500cc you can spin the rear tyre exiting corners!! ;D especially at Monza where its easier to keep the engine revs close to the power band! ;)
It does not take much at all to unsettle a motorcycle.. Without a steering damper the bars and whole bike can get out of shape easily. Especially if the front wheel is hovering.. Thats what I mainly see happening in GPB.
Bike setup is hugely important.. for me personally the only thing missing is the adjustable damper lol. Would it work? Who knows...
Quote from: PiBoSo on December 17, 2014, 04:52:33 PM
The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.
[Not talking specifically about the STK bikes here.]
Hmmm ... I'm really not sure that that justifies entirely what we see and pretty sure it justifies even less the low speed issues: front suddenly slipping away, wobble in low speed corners (not even applying throttle) ...
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on December 17, 2014, 10:08:54 PM
Now I rarely hit 100% throttle over a lap..
And how does that relates to real life ? I was under the impression (from videos with telemetry overlays) that in motogp they do open up fully quite often ...
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 18, 2014, 08:28:04 AMQuote from: BOBR6 84 on December 17, 2014, 10:08:54 PM
Now I rarely hit 100% throttle over a lap..
And how does that relates to real life ? I was under the impression (from videos with telemetry overlays) that in motogp they do open up fully quite often ...
Well it relates really bad because even at an amateur level we spend a lot of time with the throttle fully open, especially on big racetracks.
When I rode at Spa Francorchamps in July on a 750 I spent so much time wide open just like everyone else, and the bike was really stable.
Every time you exit a corner in real life, you give it full throttle unless there's another turn coming right after it. Even on an R1. The front end
does shake when it's hovering above the ground but
not to the extent we see in the game - once or twice I've gotten bigger shakes but they were riding mistakes (putting too much stress on my handlebars)
A good friend of mine (who I talked about earlier, races French national superbikes) rides a stock bike at a pace that is about 5 secs away from the end of the MotoGP grid (he rides Le Mans in 1'41, the last motoGP did a 1'36 this year on the dry) and he has none of those issues, the bike is really very stable... Sure it moves a bit but nothing uncontrollable and when you see onboard videos at a similar pace it's very smooth.
But again I'm sure some people with 0 track experience around here will say that's all bullshit :P
I'm not saying there are absolutely no wobbles, but I'm saying it's not to the point of making you crash like in GP Bikes or to the point of having the front end wobble during the whole straight...
Also former GP250, WSS and World Endurance racer Christophe Cogan told me once "if your bike is properly set up, unless the track is really bumpy you don't even need a steering damper anymore".
Here's what a STK bike around Le Mans in a 1'38 lap time looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDvoQHXAW-M
There is a bit of movement but honestly, is it as much as in gp bikes?????? .... Also most of it is either the rear end sliding a bit or the front end hovering above the ground. Even the 125 wobbles in GP Bikes.
all this discussion, summarized in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stmu0PEUQX4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stmu0PEUQX4)
extreme versatility :)
(movement extremely important driver,for piboso ;))
Quote from: EdouardB on December 18, 2014, 09:06:10 AM
Here's what a STK bike around Le Mans in a 1'38 lap time looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDvoQHXAW-M
There is a bit of movement but honestly, is it as much as in gp bikes?????? .... Also most of it is either the rear end sliding a bit or the front end hovering above the ground. Even the 125 wobbles in GP Bikes.
Maybe steer physics needs some improvements!But this comparisons not have much sens for me,is 'like watching a camera-car of a F1-car, from our chairs all seems easy ;D , but it's the skill of the driver who make seem all "easy".We don't know the hard work and the maneuvers they do with steering / throttle / body to keep the bike smooth. However there is not much to complain because I also see in gpbikes so many drivers very very strong and with smooth ride,
me not for sure ;D but i still much to learn
yeah 125 is the only bike with serious issues
Quote from: EdouardB on December 18, 2014, 08:54:20 AM
Also former GP250, WSS and World Endurance racer Christophe Cogan told me once "if your bike is properly set up, unless the track is really bumpy you don't even need a steering damper anymore".
this is true.. but id prefer to use one! its all personal preference.. i had a cbr600rr 05 with no damper.. it was fine! my R6 with no damper.. not fine lol. my 06 fireblade has an electronic steering damper.. its nice! not intrusive at all.. i think it depends on the bike too..
iv always felt it helps with the overall stability.. anyway, its just an idea to try in gpbikes..
yes, i would like a damper to play around with but also id like to know if the virtual rider is the main suspect or not. before we all go crazy.. :P
Quote from: FastFreddy on December 18, 2014, 09:26:42 AMbut it's the skill of the driver who make seem all "easy".
Sure, the rider is really good, but what annoys me is that in real life I ride about 10 secs away from the Supersport lap record (so about 12% slower, which is a lot!) and if I ride at the same pace in GP bikes I have lots of wobbles... I have none in real life except when the front is hovering above the ground. And I have no steering damper.
Same thing with the R1 I've tried (without steering damper, again). So for me there is a problem (either the virtual rider input, the mod, or the physics themselves)
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on December 17, 2014, 10:08:54 PM
Now I rarely hit 100% throttle over a lap..
And how does that relates to real life ? I was under the impression (from videos with telemetry overlays) that in motogp they do open up fully quite often ...
MaX.
[/quote]
yes, that sounds daft! all i meant was in beta6 the throttle is more responsive.. so now as i start to squeeze the throttle trigger when the bike is leant over it feels more instant because the revs are higher (compared to older beta's with no lean angle rev change) im pretty sure i used more throttle in more situations on lets say beta3! purely because it was less responsive.. but, in any case.. you roll the power on. (or squeeze the trigger) its not on/off.
anyway.. im out of this topic, touchy subject... lol
Quote from: EdouardB on December 18, 2014, 08:51:50 AM
I'm not saying there are absolutely no wobbles, but I'm saying it's not to the point of making you crash like in GP Bikes or to the point of having the front end wobble during the whole straight...
And thanks EdouardB for that confirmation.
Riders using ON/OFF throttle is definitely not the *main* problem.
MaX.
Agreed :)
i will add that.. im not having issues with the STK bikes.. the bmw, kawa etc can all be tamed with bike setup..
GPbikes as a whole.. is nervous on the front end as we ALL know. nobody knows why, and the creator see's no problem with it lol. or that's how it seems...
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 18, 2014, 11:08:08 AM
Quote from: EdouardB on December 18, 2014, 08:51:50 AM
I'm not saying there are absolutely no wobbles, but I'm saying it's not to the point of making you crash like in GP Bikes or to the point of having the front end wobble during the whole straight...
And thanks EdouardB for that confirmation.
Riders using ON/OFF throttle is definitely not the *main* problem.
MaX.
Definitely not. I'm quite a smooth rider with the throttle and most times i take corners at low rpm , 1 gear up , not on the high power band.
Yeah for sure, I know you are one of the most experienced guys on here!
Hawk uk too is really good at setting up the bikes.. And many others!
I dont mean to undermine anybody on here..
All I know is that all the bikes wobble to some degree on gpbikes.. It can be calmed down on all bikes but not completely..
Sometimes it looks incredibly realistic! Sometimes its questionable.. Lol
Either way.. Its still enjoyable (for me at least) trying to tame the beasts.