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GP Bikes => Mods => Plugins => Topic started by: HornetMaX on December 27, 2014, 05:57:50 PM

Title: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on December 27, 2014, 05:57:50 PM
Hi all,

I've made a little tool to visualize the tyre model (Magic Formula) used by GPB. If you don't know what the Magic Formula is, the tool is *not* for you :)

NOTE: the tool is very much beta. The equations involved are messy and I cannot grant an error has not slipped in. If anybody with knowledge of this stuff wants to double check, that would be appreciated. I can send you the relevant source code for that, just PM me. Of course, if Piboso could validate all that, that would be ideal (but he probably has other things to do).

It can load two set of parameters (two .tyre files) to compare and modify them (only the Magic Formula parameters). It has 4 tabs, one for each graph:Any time a value is modified, the graphs are updated. Same any time a slider is moved. Double clicking on a slider will bring it back to its default position.

On each graph there are 4 lines: 2 for the 1st model (in blue), 2 for the second model (in red).
On the longitudinal force graph (for example), it draws (for each model) the line with zero side slip and zero camber (dashed line) and the line with the values of side slip and camber specified by the sliders.

Using shift+mousewheel and ctrl+mousewheel you can zoom in/out of the X/Y axes. shit/ctrl+drag will pan the X/Y axes. A double click will zoom out to full graph.

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0BzmU7Qoo77i1dEhUc2FwX3dXRFk) (https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0BzmU7Qoo77i1dEhUc2FwX3dXRFk)

DOWNLOAD v1.6b (2017/05/16) : (https://mega.nz/#F!dBlW1SIZ!t4J1IooPK-hNpSpm0K_ZQg) <<-- THIS if for GPB beta9/10/11 and MXB beta5/6 (subsequent versions TBC).

INSTALLATION: this is not a plugin, it's a standalone tool. Just copy it in a folder where you have write rights (i.e. avoid "Program Files" and similar). The sample files provided are the ones of the 3 default bikes in GPB beta8.

IMPORTANT: in case of issues like missing dlls or things not showing up, please install Microsoft Visual C++ 2015 Redistributable Package (x86). It's available in the .zip (vcredist_x86.exe) or you can download it at https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=48145 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=48145) (download the x86 version, "vcredist_x86.exe", not the x64 version).
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: JC#21 on December 27, 2014, 06:06:30 PM
Nice work, I will try.
Thx Max
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on December 27, 2014, 11:48:32 PM
v1.3 out: fixed a couple of things that should make things more correct at large side slip and/or camber angles.

I think I've found something strange, I'm making a post in the physics section.

MaX.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: BOBR6 84 on December 29, 2014, 12:50:15 AM
Very impressive stuff here MaX! Clearly not for me as it stands..
Could this be adapted in any way to work as some sort of telemetry? Would be really great to monitor what is actually happening with the tyres.. Not sure if that exists in real life but, who cares..

Ps.. Could you create a programe that sends all tax payers money to my bank acount? Thanks :)
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on December 29, 2014, 04:06:54 PM
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on December 29, 2014, 12:50:15 AM
Very impressive stuff here MaX! Clearly not for me as it stands..
Could this be adapted in any way to work as some sort of telemetry? Would be really great to monitor what is actually happening with the tyres..
No, GPB only sends to the plugins the data you'd have on a real bike (well, I guess on a real bike you cold have some tyre data in the telemtry, like temp and pressure).

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on December 29, 2014, 12:50:15 AM
Ps.. Could you create a programe that sends all tax payers money to my bank acount? Thanks :)
As soon as I have some spare time :)

MaX.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: C21 on December 30, 2014, 09:08:24 AM
Nice and really impressive work MAX.  :)
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on December 31, 2014, 11:10:36 AM
v1.4 out:
MaX.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: h106frp on January 01, 2015, 10:44:40 PM
Found this looking for 'steering stuff', though it might be interesting as it builds on the magic formula. Bit (way) beyond anything i need though  ::)
http://alexandria.tue.nl/repository/books/598144.pdf (http://alexandria.tue.nl/repository/books/598144.pdf)
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on January 03, 2015, 09:03:40 PM
Quote from: h106frp on January 01, 2015, 10:44:40 PM
Found this looking for 'steering stuff', though it might be interesting as it builds on the magic formula. Bit (way) beyond anything i need though  ::)
http://alexandria.tue.nl/repository/books/598144.pdf (http://alexandria.tue.nl/repository/books/598144.pdf)

Thanks for the link ! I'll take the time to read through it as soon as possible.

I took a very quick look at the content and noticed that one area of improvement was about taking into account the tyre profile: that's interesting (I posted a while ago about that), but keep in mind that GPB (overall, not only its tyre model) uses tyres with round profile, so ...

MaX.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Eagle on January 04, 2015, 01:50:18 AM
I don't really know what's magic formula thing, but i see an incredible amount of work here. Great tool. ;D
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: h106frp on January 04, 2015, 10:02:37 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 03, 2015, 09:03:40 PM
Quote from: h106frp on January 01, 2015, 10:44:40 PM
Found this looking for 'steering stuff', though it might be interesting as it builds on the magic formula. Bit (way) beyond anything i need though  ::)
http://alexandria.tue.nl/repository/books/598144.pdf (http://alexandria.tue.nl/repository/books/598144.pdf)

Thanks for the link ! I'll take the time to read through it as soon as possible.

I took a very quick look at the content and noticed that one area of improvement was about taking into account the tyre profile: that's interesting (I posted a while ago about that), but keep in mind that GPB (overall, not only its tyre model) uses tyres with round profile, so ...


MaX.

It seems a critical area to get right for a bike that behaves in a realistic manner, neat dodge having a round tyre but surely the important bit of the tyre that is in contact with the track is anything but round at this point? I would have thought this (profile) tied in with tyre pressures when setting up the bike?
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on January 04, 2015, 10:20:25 PM
Quote from: h106frp on January 04, 2015, 10:02:37 PM
It seems a critical area to get right for a bike that behaves in a realistic manner, neat dodge having a round tyre but surely the important bit of the tyre that is in contact with the track is anything but round at this point?
Critical I don't know. The fact one assumes the tyre profile is round does not mean that the effects of tyre deformation (under vertical load) are neglected.
For sure a more general profile (the paper you linked uses elliptical) would be more "theoretically correct". Would it make a difference for us ? Don't know.

As we have the virtual rider in between us and the bike, the effect of a non-round profile could be not that visible to the player (the virtual rider taking care of it).

MaX.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on October 30, 2015, 02:28:27 PM
Replaced Google Drive download link with Mega download link (due to false positive virus detection on Google Drive).

MaX.

P.S.
If you want to check that the file has no virus, you can download it and check it on virustotal.com (http://virustotal.com) (free).
There's only 1 AV out of 55 that thinks it's a virus (ClamAV, I've contacted them and notified about the false positive).
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Phathry25 on February 09, 2016, 03:15:54 AM
Would it be possible to have this tool updated to support WRS?

As it stands it will only display the longitudinal curve.  And throws a bunch of unexpected key lines when loading.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on February 09, 2016, 07:37:13 AM
Quote from: Phathry25 on February 09, 2016, 03:15:54 AM
As it stands it will only display the longitudinal curve.  And throws a bunch of unexpected key lines when loading.
Not surprisingly, as it is done for GPB :) (bike tyres and car tyres do have different models).

I guess it is possible in principle at least for WRS and KRP, MXB would be a bit more complex, unless Piboso becomes unusually cooperative on the subject (but MXB is the sims has probably the smallest need for this tool). At them moment however development of all my tools is as dead as it can be, sorry.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Phathry25 on February 10, 2016, 05:49:09 PM
Understandable. Would you be willing to offer a crash course to teach a guy the basics of the model, or just point me in the right direction?
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on February 10, 2016, 07:45:20 PM
Quote from: Phathry25 on February 10, 2016, 05:49:09 PM
Understandable. Would you be willing to offer a crash course to teach a guy the basics of the model, or just point me in the right direction?
Sure, no big secret there. As stated by Piboso (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1179.msg16679#msg16679 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1179.msg16679#msg16679)), GPB uses Pacejka 2002 model (Magic Formula).
You can find plenty of references on the web with enough info to get a grasp of the overall idea.
If you really want to dig into that, the reference book is: Tyre and Vehicle Dynamics - H.B. Pacejka (I have the 2nd edition but I think there's a 3rd one around, with some minor differences).

To be honest, there's not an awful lot to understand about that tyre model: it's essentially a best-fit (from experimental data) over an empirical formula with a few tricks.
Once you have the exact equations, you're essentially done (for our purposes, modding).

Warning: I reported a while ago an issue I've found in GPB tyre data or my understanding of it (see this post: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1922.msg25788;topicseen#msg25788 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1922.msg25788;topicseen#msg25788)). Didn't get any feedback from Piboso, so all the possible explanations are on the table: I have a bug in my code (very unlikely, for that specific issue), or I'm applying some formula wrongly, or GPB tyre data is fundamentally flawed.

Let me know if you need extra help.


Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on August 26, 2016, 09:30:26 AM
Hi Max.
Any chance you can update MaxTyre to beta 8 Max? It's just that we are working on tyre performance characteristics and an updated version would be a great help.  ;)

We can view current beta 8 .TYRE files, but the current saved data set from MaxTyre is different to the current GPB .TYRE file data set and causes a core.exe in GPB.

As an addition: Could you make it so that when we save a file and enter a filename for the save that we don't have to put ".TYRE" as the filename format suffix? In other words it automatically adds the ".TYRE" filename format suffix to the end of the filename entered for the file save function. It just tidy's up the save procedure, but no big deal if it requires a lot of work to fix.  ;)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on August 26, 2016, 09:57:56 AM
Quote from: Hawk on August 26, 2016, 09:30:26 AM
Hi Max.
Any chance you can update MaxTyre to beta 8 Max? It's just that we are working on tyre performance characteristics and an updated version would be a great help.  ;)

We can view current beta 8 .TYRE files, but the current saved data set from MaxTyre is different to the current GPB .TYRE file data set and causes a core.exe in GPB.

The tool is not supposed to save the entire .tyre file. As stated in the 1st post:
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 27, 2014, 05:57:50 PM
The tool only works with the parameters in the first part of Piboso's files (stuff before the section named "compound0").
It ignores all the rest. When you save something, it only saves out the parameters it works with (not the ones it has ignored).
Look at the sample files that come with the tool and compare them with the original .tyre files from GPB, you'll see what I mean.

Quote from: Hawk on August 26, 2016, 09:30:26 AM
As an addition: Could you make it so that when we save a file and enter a filename for the save that we don't have to put ".TYRE" as the filename format suffix? In other words it automatically adds the ".TYRE" filename format suffix to the end of the filename entered for the file save function. It just tidy's up the save procedure, but no big deal if it requires a lot of work to fix.  ;)
I probably could, but the issue is that the tool output is an incomplete .tyre file.

Let's assume you want to modify the murasama's rear tyre (m_rr1000_03_r_qual.tyre):
If I get bored one of these nights I can try to have the tool read and write .tyre files directly.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on August 26, 2016, 10:35:49 AM
No Max, you've misunderstood.  :)
Look at the data sets below and you will see that the Beta 8 TYRE file holds less variable data compared to your MaxTyre saved Data Set.
Can you see the difference in size although they are both only using the data range you indicated?  ;)

Basically there is more data in the MaxTyre file than there is in the Current GPB Beta 8 .TYRE file.  :)

GPB Beta 8 Varase Tyre Data Set(your indicated data range):
R0 = 0.300000
Fz0 = 1000.000000
p_Cx1 = 1.600000
p_Dx1 = 1.650000
p_Dx2 = -0.100000
p_Ex1 = 0.000000
p_Ex2 = 0.000000
p_Ex3 = 0.000000
p_Ex4 = 0.000000
p_Kx1 = 30.000000
p_Kx2 = 0.000000
p_Kx3 = 0.000000
r_Bx1 = 14.000000
r_Bx2 = -10.000000
r_Bx3 = 0.000000
r_Cx1 = 1.050000
p_Cy1 = 1.200000
p_Cy2 = 0.600000
p_Dy1 = 1.650000
p_Dy2 = -0.100000
p_Dy3 = 0.000000
p_Ey1 = 0.000000
p_Ey2 = 0.000000
p_Ey3 = 0.000000
p_Ey4 = 0.000000
p_Ey5 = 0.000000
p_Ky1 = 20.000000
p_Ky2 = 1.000000
p_Ky3 = 0.010000
p_Ky4 = 0.000000
p_Ky5 = 0.000000
p_Ky6 = 3.000000
p_Ky7 = 0.000000
r_By1 = 7.000000
r_By2 = 8.000000
r_By3 = 0.000000
r_Cy1 = 1.050000
r_Hy1 = 0.000000
q_Bz1 = 9.000000
q_Cz1 = 1.100000
q_Dz1 = 0.100000
q_Dz8 = 0.100000
q_Ez1 = -10.000000
s_Sz1 = 0.000000
q_sy1 = 0.013000




MaxTYRE Saved Data set of same above file:
Fz0 = 1000.000000
R0 = 0.300000
p_Cx1 = 1.600000
p_Cy1 = 1.200000
p_Cy2 = 0.600000
p_Dx1 = 1.650000
p_Dx2 = -0.100000
p_Dy1 = 1.650000
p_Dy2 = -0.100000
p_Dy3 = 0.000000
p_Ex1 = 0.000000
p_Ex2 = 0.000000
p_Ex3 = 0.000000
p_Ex4 = 0.000000
p_Ey1 = 0.000000
p_Ey2 = 0.000000
p_Ey3 = 0.000000
p_Ey4 = 0.000000
p_Ey5 = 0.000000
p_Hx1 = 0.000000
p_Hx2 = 0.000000
p_Hy1 = 0.000000
p_Hy2 = 0.000000
p_Kx1 = 30.000000
p_Kx2 = 0.000000
p_Kx3 = 0.000000
p_Ky1 = 20.000000
p_Ky2 = 1.000000
p_Ky3 = 0.010000
p_Ky4 = 0.000000
p_Ky5 = 0.000000
p_Ky6 = 3.000000
p_Ky7 = 0.000000
p_Vx1 = 0.000000
p_Vx2 = 0.000000
p_Vy1 = 0.000000
p_Vy2 = 0.000000
p_Vy3 = 0.000000
p_Vy4 = 0.000000
q_Bz1 = 9.000000
q_Bz10 = 0.000000
q_Bz2 = 0.000000
q_Bz3 = 0.000000
q_Bz4 = 0.000000
q_Bz5 = 0.000000
q_Bz6 = 0.000000
q_Bz9 = 0.000000
q_Cz1 = 1.100000
q_Dz1 = 0.100000
q_Dz10 = 0.000000
q_Dz11 = 0.000000
q_Dz2 = 0.000000
q_Dz3 = 0.000000
q_Dz4 = 0.000000
q_Dz6 = 0.000000
q_Dz7 = 0.000000
q_Dz8 = 0.100000
q_Dz9 = 0.000000
q_Ez1 = -10.000000
q_Ez2 = 0.000000
q_Ez3 = 0.000000
q_Ez4 = 0.000000
q_Ez5 = 0.000000
q_Hz1 = 0.000000
q_Hz2 = 0.000000
q_Hz3 = 0.000000
q_Hz4 = 0.000000
q_sy1 = 0.013000
r_Bx1 = 14.000000
r_Bx2 = -10.000000
r_Bx3 = 0.000000
r_By1 = 7.000000
r_By2 = 8.000000
r_By3 = 0.000000
r_By4 = 0.000000
r_Cx1 = 1.050000
r_Cy1 = 1.050000
r_Hx1 = 0.000000
r_Hy1 = 0.000000
r_Vy1 = 0.000000
r_Vy2 = 0.000000
r_Vy3 = 0.000000
r_Vy4 = 0.000000
r_Vy5 = 0.000000
r_Vy6 = 0.000000
s_Sz1 = 0.000000
s_Sz2 = 0.000000
s_Sz3 = 0.000000
s_Sz4 = 0.000000



Looking at the variables in MaxTyre dataset compared to beta 8 dataset, has Piboso either dropped some variables or is possibly using an updated Magic Formula version with a different data set of variables? But MaxTyre definitely has more variables than Piboso is currently using in Beta 8.

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on August 26, 2016, 11:03:50 AM
Just to be sure, can you confirm that what you did is this: you have opened the 1st data set in MaxTyre and you have saved it to a different file obtaining the 2nd data set ?

What I see comparing the two data sets: in the second set all the additional lines (not present in the 1st set) are with a parameter value of zero, so they shouldn't matter (as likely zero is the default value, used when the parameter is not specified). Once you get rid of these additional lines with zeros, all the rest is identical (ordering aside) between the two sets. I can eventually change the code to avoid writing out lines with a parameter set to zero, but the order will never match all the times.

You can use Notepad++ with its compare plugin to diff two text files, very useful (it highlights each line of the two flies as identical, missing from 1, missing from 2, present but in different position, etc).
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on August 26, 2016, 11:43:25 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 26, 2016, 11:03:50 AM
Just to be sure, can you confirm that what you did is this: you have opened the 1st data set in MaxTyre and you have saved it to a different file obtaining the 2nd data set ?

What I see comparing the two data sets: in the second set all the additional lines (not present in the 1st set) are with a parameter value of zero, so they shouldn't matter (as likely zero is the default value, used when the parameter is not specified). Once you get rid of these additional lines with zeros, all the rest is identical (ordering aside) between the two sets. I can eventually change the code to avoid writing out lines with a parameter set to zero, but the order will never match all the times.

You can use Notepad++ with its compare plugin to diff two text files, very useful (it highlights each line of the two flies as identical, missing from 1, missing from 2, present but in different position, etc).

Yes. I confirm that I did that.

I can also confirm that when I copy pasted the saved MaxTyre data set into the GPB Bike TYRE file, that GPB core.exe crashes, so yeah it would mean having to separate the redundant variable data lines and deleting them by using the "Notepad ++" method you suggested before then copy/pasting the MaxTyre data set into the relevant bike TYRE file. That currently is a bit of a pain.

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on August 26, 2016, 01:02:32 PM
Quote from: Hawk on August 26, 2016, 11:43:25 AM
I can also confirm that when I copy pasted the saved MaxTyre data set into the GPB Bike TYRE file, that GPB core.exe crashes, so yeah it would mean having to separate the redundant variable data lines and deleting them by using the "Notepad ++" method you suggested before then copy/pasting the MaxTyre data set into the relevant bike TYRE file. That currently is a bit of a pain.
I will have to test this at home: maybe (huge speculation here) I'm assuming a default value to be zero when in fact it should be 1, because even in your original file there are lines with value at zero and that doesn't seem to be a problem.

One thing you can do (if you have time, willingness etc) is to manually remove the extra lines generated by MaxTyre "one by one" (see below) to figure out which one makes GPB crash.
If you don't do it, I'll do it as soon as I have some time for that.

Here are the "extra" lines from the example below:
p_Hx1 = 0.000000
p_Hx2 = 0.000000
p_Hy1 = 0.000000
p_Hy2 = 0.000000

p_Vx1 = 0.000000
p_Vx2 = 0.000000
p_Vy1 = 0.000000
p_Vy2 = 0.000000
p_Vy3 = 0.000000
p_Vy4 = 0.000000

q_Bz10 = 0.000000
q_Bz2 = 0.000000
q_Bz3 = 0.000000
q_Bz4 = 0.000000
q_Bz5 = 0.000000
q_Bz6 = 0.000000
q_Bz9 = 0.000000

q_Dz10 = 0.000000
q_Dz11 = 0.000000
q_Dz2 = 0.000000
q_Dz3 = 0.000000
q_Dz4 = 0.000000
q_Dz6 = 0.000000
q_Dz7 = 0.000000

q_Dz9 = 0.000000

q_Ez2 = 0.000000
q_Ez3 = 0.000000
q_Ez4 = 0.000000
q_Ez5 = 0.000000
q_Hz1 = 0.000000
q_Hz2 = 0.000000
q_Hz3 = 0.000000
q_Hz4 = 0.000000

r_By4 = 0.000000

r_Hx1 = 0.000000

r_Vy1 = 0.000000
r_Vy2 = 0.000000
r_Vy3 = 0.000000
r_Vy4 = 0.000000
r_Vy5 = 0.000000
r_Vy6 = 0.000000

s_Sz2 = 0.000000
s_Sz3 = 0.000000
s_Sz4 = 0.000000


You can work by "bunch" : remove all the p_H** lines (p_Hx1, p_Hx2, p_Hy1, p_Hy2): if it doesn't crash, move to another group (e.g. all the p_V** lines).
If it crashes add those lines back and remove only 1 or 2 of them, etc.
It should be pretty quick to figure out the offending line(s).
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on August 26, 2016, 06:43:26 PM
I just went to do these tests Max, and bugger me! It seems to be working now without any crashes at all!! :o  :-[

I now have no idea now why it was crashing yesterday when I pasted the same data set range into the .TYRE file.... My 1st thought was that I possibly had MaxTyre active at the same time I ran GPB, but just tested that and GPB still doesn't crash......

I also did a fresh save from MaxTyre as a further test and pasted that fresh data set into the bike .TYRE file and still no GPB crash.  :o

So it all seems to be working again now Max.  :-[

I can only deeply apologise Max for wasting your time on this issue... This is all very annoying because I'm sure I'm pasting in the same data range as yesterday, but for some reason GPB isn't crashing now like it did yesterday.  I can only assume that I must've ran something yesterday that upset something with all this afterwards, and with a fresh system start today it has sorted it all out?? GRrrrr!  ::) :-[ :-\

Hawk.

Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on August 26, 2016, 08:17:46 PM
Don't worry Hawk, you probably wasted more time than my 10min on that so I have no problem assuming you didn't do it on purpose :)

Also, GPB (and the other sims from Piboso) may be tricky at times.
I know that sometimes they crash systematically when starting a test/online session if I have Visual Studio open. It's random: sometimes I do have the issue, sometimes not. But when I do have the problem, it persists and I have to shut VS down. After that, GPB works fine.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on August 26, 2016, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 26, 2016, 08:17:46 PM
Don't worry Hawk, you probably wasted more time than my 10min on that so I have no problem assuming you didn't do it on purpose :)

Also, GPB (and the other sims from Piboso) may be tricky at times.
I know that sometimes they crash systematically when starting a test/online session if I have Visual Studio open. It's random: sometimes I do have the issue, sometimes not. But when I do have the problem, it persists and I have to shut VS down. After that, GPB works fine.

Thanks for that Max.... I had visions of you working away there trying to figure out what was happening only for the problem to be all at my end, but as you said, this sort of thing happens at times, but at least I'll know in future to do a system re-boot before posting about a similar problem again in the future just to rule out this sort of thing happening again.  :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on September 25, 2016, 08:44:44 PM
v1.5 out (Hawk's special):
Concerning the last point, if you open the "m_rr1000_03_r_qual.tyre" file in MaxTyre and then saved it, you get (I've removed some lines):
[EDIT 26/09/2016: fixed the comment lines perfix to ";##" as per v1.5b]

;## Parameters generated by MaxTyre
type = bike
id = M RR 1000 03 R Qual
Fz0 = 1000.000000
R0 = 0.300000
p_Cx1 = 1.600000
p_Cy1 = 1.200000

...  ...  ...

s_Sz4 = 0.000000
;## Other parameters
compound0
{
name = Qualify
OptTemperature = 80

...  ...  ...

pressure
{
range = 100, 5, 160
setting = 6
}
tyreHeaterTemperature = 60


Notice the two comments line starting with a ";##": they separate the parameters that can be modified within MaxTyre from the rest.
Essentially, when reading a .tyre file the tool tried to see if the line is about one parameter the tool knows: if yes the line will appear in the first part of the output file. If not it will appear (unchanged) in the second part.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on September 25, 2016, 10:19:38 PM
Woohoo! Very nice update Max! This will make things a lot simpler.....

Thank you very much Max, appreciated!  ;D ;D 8) 8)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on September 25, 2016, 10:30:15 PM
Did all that a bit on the rush, let me know if you see weird things when loading saving files.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on September 25, 2016, 11:17:48 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on September 25, 2016, 10:30:15 PM
Did all that a bit on the rush, let me know if you see weird things when loading saving files.

Will do mate.  ;)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on September 26, 2016, 06:26:45 AM
Ach, one little bug: when you open a file previously saved with the tool and then you save it again, you have the comment lines twice.
Not a big issue but can be confusing.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on September 26, 2016, 05:32:23 PM
v1.5b out:
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on September 26, 2016, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on September 26, 2016, 05:32:23 PM
v1.5b out:

  • Fix for the bug above: the comment lines added by MaxTyre are now prefixed with ";##" and are correctly handled when ew-writing them.

Thanks Max.  ;) 8)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on September 27, 2016, 12:07:58 PM
On the fx tab, when I alter the camber slider the graph doesn't seem to update the curves? Is this correct or a bug Max?

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on September 27, 2016, 02:36:19 PM
When you alter the tab values and save, then if you close MaxTyre and run it again and then load in the previously altered tyre it shows it back at default values on the graph instead of at the newly altered values?

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on September 27, 2016, 07:25:59 PM
Quote from: Hawk on September 27, 2016, 12:07:58 PM
On the fx tab, when I alter the camber slider the graph doesn't seem to update the curves? Is this correct or a bug Max?
It is surprising indeed, but the problem is not in my code I think. I'm asking PiBoSo here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=3760.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=3760.0)

Quote from: Hawk on September 27, 2016, 02:36:19 PM
When you alter the tab values and save, then if you close MaxTyre and run it again and then load in the previously altered tyre it shows it back at default values on the graph instead of at the newly altered values?
Everything seems to work fine for me.

Can you give me an exact example ? Which value do you change ?
Can you show (the relevant part of) the original file and the one saved ?
What exactly are you looking at when you say "it shows it back at default values on the graph instead of at the newly altered values" ?
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on September 27, 2016, 08:41:46 PM
I loaded in the rear tyre into the MF1(Column).
I altered the fx tab value sliders(fz factor/Side Slip) to change the shape of the curves.
I also altered the fy tab value sliders(fz factor/Long Slip/Camber) to change the shape of the curves.
I then saved the file.

I then wanted to load the front tyre in the MF1(column) and the rear tyre into the MF2(Column) to compare the curves from both front and rear tyres and found that the two tyres had exactly the same curves as default tab slider values. The slider values I set for the rear tyres appeared same as default settings, and curves for both tyres appears the same in each tab graph screen. I expected the saved rear tyre settings/curve to appear exactly as I'd saved it? I also expected the front tyre curve to be different to the rear as I'd altered the saved rear tyre file.

I'd send you the files concerned, but they wouldn't tell you anything because the curves on both tyre files appear the same for some reason? But if the front and rear tyre files would help you investigate then I'd be happy to send you them, just let me know mate.  ;)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on September 27, 2016, 09:46:22 PM
The sliders do not alter anything of the tyre model: the tyre model is described by the parameters in the "table" on the left.

The Fz_factor slider alters the load on the tyre with respect to its normal value (i.e. a factor 1.1 = +10%). All the curves depend on that value but it's not part of the model (it's the "weight" the tyre sees).
The side_slip is "how much the tyre is sliding sideways". The camber is the lean angle of the bike. All 3 depends on the particular situation the bike is in.

Once you fix the parameters on the left table, you can have a look at the curves in different conditions: for example default load, no side slip and no camber (i.e .bike vertical going straight), or +10% load, some side slip and 45deg camber (bike in a turn).
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on September 27, 2016, 10:45:14 PM
Oh right! Now I see.... I edit the parameters on the left and then set the sliders for the graph to show what the tyre model is doing accordingly.... Got it. ;)

Thanks Max.  ;)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on October 01, 2016, 01:40:50 PM
v1.6 out:
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on October 01, 2016, 04:22:38 PM
Nice work indeed mate! ;) 8)

Thanks Max!  ;)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Stout Johnson on November 05, 2016, 02:04:45 PM
I just wanted to say: a very nice tool MaX! Very helpful indeed! I just recently stumbled upon this tool, since I had been off from GPB for a while, I did not even know that it existed.

Thanks for the effort creating and maintaining this.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: LOOPATELI on May 16, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Critical   1: trying to get MF param name with idx 78 (max is 45) !!

I get this king of error with any tipe of tyre when I scroll down in the parameters tab, any idea?
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: CapeDoctor on May 16, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
how would i find out more about this mysterious Magic Formula.....?   ;D ???
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on May 16, 2017, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: LOOPATELI on May 16, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Critical   1: trying to get MF param name with idx 78 (max is 45) !!

I get this king of error with any tipe of tyre when I scroll down in the parameters tab, any idea?
When it looks like a bug, smells like a bug and behaves like a bug ... well, it's likely a bug.
Not sure how I missed this but whatever ...

Quote from: CapeDoctor on May 16, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
how would i find out more about this mysterious Magic Formula.....?   ;D ???
Google 'tyre magic formula', or get the Pacejka book (Tyre and Vehicle Dynamics - H.B. Pacejka).
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on May 16, 2017, 07:15:41 PM
v1.6b out:
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: LOOPATELI on May 16, 2017, 07:26:57 PM
thanks for fixing it that fast!
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Hawk on July 04, 2017, 08:36:11 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 16, 2017, 07:15:41 PM
v1.6b out:

  • Fix a monster of a bug i cannot even understand how I missed it. Thx to Loopateli for reporting.

Thanks Max!  ;) 8)

Hawk.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: grimm on July 05, 2017, 07:17:02 AM
I was just thinking to myself today, as I was working, that I should really experiment more with the tire files and suspension types of GP and MX Bikes. Piboso added a multitude of options for suspension, and I am really interested in how the tires are effected, and "rigid" suspension, since it is now possible, would really bring out the changes in the tire files... and then I discover your wonderful tool for modifying the tires properly.

I've got a limited understanding of the magic formula, back in the days of Dolphinity Racer by Ruud van Gaal, I had played around with tire slip and grip with the Pacejka. I'm pretty much oblivious to what it all is, but visualizing it via MaxTyre is incredibly convenient to understand the changes and effects.


A huge thank you, I'm going to start experimenting tomorrow morning with a cup of coffee and a fresh mind. I really want a flat track racing setup on MX Bikes.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on July 05, 2017, 06:12:21 PM
Hey grimm, careful that the tyre model of MXB is more complex than the one of GPB and there are many things that are not covered by my tool.

Cheers !
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: grimm on July 08, 2017, 10:13:37 AM
Thanks for the info. I figured if I can get a decent idea of how the tire model works when things are changed in GPB it won't be too far away to change something on MXB and possibly get it a little more consistent sliding sideways around an oval dirt track.
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: Myst1cPrun3 on May 22, 2020, 06:15:25 PM
Is this going to get an update to allow it to function for the newest betas? Could be quite useful, especially if we can just select stuff like slides on entry/exit etc
and have it generated for us
Title: Re: MaxTyre - A tool to visualize/edit the GPB tyre model
Post by: HornetMaX on May 23, 2020, 09:08:31 AM
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 22, 2020, 06:15:25 PMIs this going to get an update to allow it to function for the newest betas?
I don't think anything has changed recently in GPB tyre model, it should just work as before.

Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 22, 2020, 06:15:25 PMCould be quite useful, especially if we can just select stuff like slides on entry/exit etc and have it generated for us
That's just not possible. Have a quick read at how GPB tyre model work and you'll see.