@Piboso:
what are the general syntax rules your .cfg/.scl/.engn files should follow ?
I mean stuff like:
- Must the '{' and '}' section delimiters happen on their own line ?
- Can each section (e.g. Layer0 in a .scl) happen in arbitrary order or is order important ?
- Can each "param = value" in a section happen in arbitrary order or is order important ?
- Some "lists" do not seem to be preceded by a parameter telling how many items are expected (e.g. mapping0, mapping1, in the engine section in the bike's .cfg or gearing rations in gearbox/gearing)
MaX.
http://www.youtube.com/v/31g0YE61PLQ
Please just wait for the official tools. It shouldn't take too long to have them ready for release.
It would be extremely confusing to have both official and unofficial tools around, with the latter potentially generating incorrect data.
Hey congrats Max I think thats a YES!!!! ::) ::) ::)
https://www.youtube.com/v/UKwVvSleM6w
Keep up the great work mate we all really appreciate it and dont forget its YOUR apps that help ALL of us on here!!!!
HINT HINT HINT PIBOSO ;D
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on February 10, 2015, 05:34:38 PM
Keep up the great work mate we all really appreciate it and dont forget its YOUR apps that help ALL of us on here!!!!
Thx DD, I guess this is clear to all here, minus one.
@Piboso: I don't even know where to start my reply, so I won't.
Sorry for asking anyway: I'll just keep on trying to help the ones that keep GPB afloat (the modders, without whom the game would be long dead), without your support. It's easier that way anyway.
No offense taken, nor given.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 10, 2015, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: doubledragoncc on February 10, 2015, 05:34:38 PM
Keep up the great work mate we all really appreciate it and dont forget its YOUR apps that help ALL of us on here!!!!
Thx DD, I guess this is clear to all here, minus one.
@Piboso: I don't even know where to start my reply, so I won't.
Sorry for asking anyway: I'll just keep on trying to help the ones that keep GPB afloat (the modders, without whom the game would be long dead), without your support. It's easier that way anyway.
No offense taken, nor given.
MaX.
(http://whattheflicka.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/What-the-fuck-GIFS.gif)
Did you read the explanation why it would be better to not have unofficial tools?
Quote from: doubledragoncc on February 10, 2015, 05:34:38 PM
Hey congrats Max I think thats a YES!!!! ::) ::) ::)
https://www.youtube.com/v/UKwVvSleM6w
Keep up the great work mate we all really appreciate it and dont forget its YOUR apps that help ALL of us on here!!!!
HINT HINT HINT PIBOSO ;D
DD
"yeah it's a shame to be shot down in flames" :D
amazing song \m/
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 10, 2015, 06:50:06 PM
Did you read the explanation why it would be better to not have unofficial tools?
Yes, 10 times at least , because after 9 times I was still not able to believe what I had in front of me.
1. We have no offical tool to help creating sounds at the moment. I guess we can agree on that.
2. "with the latter potentially generating incorrect data": this specific tool does not generate any data by himself. The user can generate incorrect data. Same is true for your tools.
3. Your definition of soon ... well, how to phrase that ... is ... let's say skewed.
4. In my tools, when there's something wrong (it can happen), I tend to fix it. Quickly. Unlike some problems in GPB that have been here for ages (and I'm not talking about the hard stuff).
The day you pull out a decent tool to edit the .scl I'll be more than happy to remove mine. Same thing for the telemetry tool. Same thing for anything else I've done.
Notice the 'decent' however: because the current bike tools ...
As a closing remark (and that's possibly the worst thing of it all), if at the moment you're working/planning to work on the mod tools, you are again wide off track: GPB has much bigger problems than the mod tools.
Unfortunately, for these bigger problems, I cannot help (and anyway you wouldn't want to be helped).
Sorry for being a bit harsh & blunt & asshole all in the same post.
MaX.
P.S.
BTW I though you said once that all Jamoz did was spam the topics with silly animated gifs.
Amen..
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 10, 2015, 07:37:03 PM
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 10, 2015, 06:50:06 PM
Did you read the explanation why it would be better to not have unofficial tools?
Yes, 10 times at least , because after 9 times I was still not able to believe what I had in front of me.
1. We have no offical tool to help creating sounds at the moment. I guess we can agree on that.
2. "with the latter potentially generating incorrect data": this specific tool does not generate any data by himself. The user can generate incorrect data. Same is true for your tools.
3. Your definition of soon ... well, how to phrase that ... is ... let's say skewed.
4. In my tools, when there's something wrong (it can happen), I tend to fix it. Quickly. Unlike some problems in GPB that have been here for ages (and I'm not talking about the hard stuff).
The day you pull out a decent tool to edit the .scl I'll be more than happy to remove mine. Same thing for the telemetry tool. Same thing for anything else I've done.
Notice the 'decent' however: because the current bike tools ...
As a closing remark (and that's possibly the worst thing of it all), if at the moment you're working/planning to work on the mod tools, you are again wide off track: GPB has much bigger problems than the mod tools.
Unfortunately, for these bigger problems, I cannot help (and anyway you wouldn't want to be helped).
Sorry for being a bit harsh & blunt & asshole all in the same post.
MaX.
P.S.
BTW I though you said once that all Jamoz did was spam the topics with silly animated gifs.
(http://wildhunt.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/you-mad-bro-.jpg)
;D
Is this thread supposed to be serious?
You asked for much more than just the sound data.
The "modding tools" are actually the tools used internally, with a little bit of polishing. If they are good for development, why not for modding? They lack in design and usability, because they were meant to remain private, and they are rarely used in general. However, they get the job done and they can be improved.
The first batch of tools was already released, the rest ( TyreEd, SoundEd, FontGen, ... ) will come as soon as possible.
The rest of the rant is just same ol', same ol': different priorities, too much work, I'm not a fast programmer, ...
One clarification; modders' work is amazing, always welcome and keeps motivation and morale high. However, it only keeps GPB "community" afloat. GPB development is still fueled by KRP only, unfortunately.
So how do we go about changing this?
Ie. funds, advertisment etc
Plenty of people are willing to help!
Just need to throw us a bone now and again so people know what's going on! ;)
@ Piboso.
I am so very sorry to have to say this, but in the end, it is something that should be said. You have directly, not only insulted a paying customer for attempting (and succeeding) in offering the community that exists (and all new customers), tools and apps to make your simulation more enjoyable, have a deeper interest level, and be more realistic, but also down trodden the community as a whole and expressed how menial we are for the development of GPB as it is only KRP that finances the development!!!
Where do you think you get your new customers from in the first place??? How about from us loyal customers who post all over the internet everything we can to promote GPB, who spend hours of their own time to offer for free something to make GPB as interesting as it is and encourage those who have the demo to by a license. 4 bikes and 1 track is ALL you offer. The community has made that 100 for tracks alone!!!! and how many bikes, apps and everything else???
You should be thankful that we are VERY patient people and that we support you no matter what, but when you insult one of the most giving and hard working members of this community, do not expect us to just sit and take it.
I am very sorry Piboso, but in all honesty and I think most will agree with me, you should retract your words.
I hated every second of writing this, but having been here for so many years and seeing this I feel it is my right to defend a colleague and a friend. I know he can do that himself, but maybe you will think a little more if a few more of us stand by our guns. Just because you write the program does not give you the right to disrespect or look down upon the efforts we make to improve GPB. We all have feelings!!!
That said, I once again apologize for having to right this and hope it will be read with mature understanding and leave no bad feelings.
You have given us the best and only bike simulation in the world Piboso and I will a;ways support and push you product to the maximum I can. Thank you for GPB and thank you to the modders for their
commitment and dedication.
Quote from: doubledragoncc on February 10, 2015, 09:11:28 PM
@ Piboso.
...
I didn't meant to insult anyone, I apologize if anyone felt insulted.
I just tried to explain why I think it's not a good idea to make a duplicate of the tools.
Video and pics were not professional, agreed, but if you can't have a bit of fun with an long time member, then why bother? :)
I think it is clear in Max's words how he feels and hope he reads your apology, and things can carry on. Thank you for taking the right step.
As to what Max was asking, I fully understand your point of view, but as Max stated, his program will not effect GPB, its an app for sound and something that I know MANY her are interested in. We all mod at our own risk and we all make backups, so we can play around and if we balls it up we just use our backup files, but at least we get the chance to do something we feel important to our enjoyment and making GPB more realistic.
Right now there are more important things for you to do with getting GPB bugs out and not spend time on apps. This is one reason people like Max do what they do. Please see the true value in the work these modders do and concentrate on fixing GPB.
Thank you for taking the time to reply in such a manner.
DD
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 10, 2015, 08:39:17 PM
Is this thread supposed to be serious?
I was.
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 10, 2015, 08:39:17 PM
You asked for much more than just the sound data.
No, I only asked about the basic rules your perser goes by (for .scl, .engn, .tyre, .cfg files, which all have the same basic format) .
I don't need an explanation of all the single values: I only need to know the common parsing rules. It's a 3min reply max.
Example of reply: { and } on individual lines, sections in any order, ';' marks a line comment.
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 10, 2015, 08:39:17 PM
The rest of the rant is just same ol', same ol': different priorities, too much work, I'm not a fast programmer, ...
You ARE a fast programmer, when you decide to work on something.
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 10, 2015, 09:23:27 PM
I didn't meant to insult anyone, I apologize if anyone felt insulted.
Not insulted, more like utterly puzzled.
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 10, 2015, 09:23:27 PM
I just tried to explain why I think it's not a good idea to make a duplicate of the tools.
Then try again, because the reasons looks weak at best.
A tool to edit a .scl has zero risk, no matter how bad it is. It cannot break GPB, it cannot format your SSD, it cannot divide by zero and create a black hole (ok, it may divide by zero, but that's all).
The day your tool is out and fit, I'll gladly drop mine.
In the while, something to help the few ones able to work on .scl file is probably very welcome, especially because I expect much more people to get a grasp of how the .scl works thanks to the tool (and despite the fact you never told us how the .scl is supposed to work, surely for lack of time, but still ...). The sound of mod bikes is most of the time crap. What I see in the .scl files of mod bikes proves that many are toying around with no understanding of what it does.
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 10, 2015, 09:23:27 PM
Video and pics were not professional, agreed, but if you can't have a bit of fun with an long time member, then why bother? :)
I'm all for funny pics and videos, but the juxtaposition of them and your replies in this thread stinked. As if, in the context of this discussion, I posted this in reply:
https://www.youtube.com/v/7mmuQteX1qA
Well, I just did. But it was for explanation purposes :)
Anyway, I can work without the reply on the parser, no biggie. Back to useful stuff. Us both.
MaX.
Heya !
I know it's not my business and don't have to say a word about this, adding the fact that i'm new here.. BUT I STILL WILL ! MWA HA HA HA!
Hem...
Piboso, why are you reticent to the idea of being helped ?.. I don't think you realize how much you and this project have the chance to have someone like Max here.. I interest myself in game development only since october 2013, but i could follow few projects that have learnt numerous things to me. (i hope it is the right word xD)
1. Max is a coder, something high freakingly researched in indie projects.
2. He code really fast and makes really good addons/tools, proving that he do that with passion of both universes (coding, motorcycles) and that he find a real interest in the project to the point of doing all of that for it and it's community.
3. He code what he likes and what he believes to be right but is listening to the community as well.
Trust me. Max is one of the reaaaaaaaally rare persons to do that.
You say you are a slow coder.. I can't believe that. It's all question of will.
You should profit that max is making tools to look at the "suggestions and wishlist forum" and improve the internal code.
Communicating informations about how works the game would be nice and legit as well since most of it and it's life is based on contribution from the community. (pretty weird to pay to give self made things but i don't really mind it)
You seem to count too much on the community (bikes/tracks/contents)and not enough in the same time (things like this..). That's the impression i have...
Mmhh.. It's always awesome projects that has problems.. It's sad.. :/
I hope i haven't said too much bullshits, sorry if it's the case.. :'<
Eagle@School
Very disappointed when I read this.... Max has been here for many years, and we've seen this happen before...... I'm sure Max is big enough to take this on the chin, but for sure Max deserves more respect than that, and I'm pleased to see that Piboso has apologised for any offence that could have been taken from his response....
Max has done SO much for this community, not only for his brilliant Utility Mods, but also for his willingness to really dig down deep and explain in detail the way things work. I for one really appreciate Max's contributions.... He's taught me a heck of a lot of stuff in understanding how things work, and has greatly added to my enjoyment of GPB over the years.
Piboso, I do understand that you want to bring out official editing tools for GPB and that's brilliant that your willing to do so, but while we are waiting for you to do that, and let's face it we do wait and wait, and wait in a frustrated but also in an understanding way(for the reasons you've pointed out above) or most of us wouldn't still be here supporting you and GPB; but in the meantime, why have a go at Max for wanting to help the community understand and edit the sound files properly now? And why, when he needs a little information from you to help him do a better job for us all do you decide to try and slap him down for it? If I was you Piboso, I'd be thinking, "Well if Max can do a great job on his sound editor then it may just save me time and work on doing it myself". That way you could contribute your limited time on other issues that also need sorting out. Turn a negative into a positive..... Modding GPB is our way of supporting you and the GPB project, but you seem hell bent on rejecting any possible solution of help whatsoever...... There is such a huge passion for your GPB project here, so I just cannot understand, especially when you freely admit that it is lack of funds from GPB that limit it's development within a time criteria.
As Bob and others have suggested many times before, why don't you do a online crowd fund raiser, or a "Steam Greenlight"(together with a GPB beta release on steam(every developer seems to be doing that those days( and let's face it. Most people who would buy GPB probably don't even realise GPB exists(Steam would solve that problem for sure!)). This would very possibly enable you to have the funds available to fully develop GPB in a reasonable time frame. Okay, so what if a crowd fund raiser turns out not to raise what you'd need to do this, at least you would've explored that avenue; and if it fails then just go back to the development cycle your doing now. You can't lose by trying surely?
Anyway.... Max. You certainly have my support and appreciation for all the work you do here for us all mate. ;)
Hawk.
Uhh, i missed this thread.......
SAD ::) , really sad....
Whatever.
That's cool.
Quote from: Hawk_UK on February 11, 2015, 10:46:53 AM
I'm sure Max is big enough to take this on the chin
I tried to eschew but failed :) Anyway, bruises are mostly gone.
Jokes apart, I guess the whole thing is clarified now. So back to wai... uh, work :)
MaX.
Since this thread is for questions about gpb's system, i'll profit to ask something. :>
At wich frequency (and how much bits e.g: 44100Hz and 32 bits) is gpbikes reading sound files ? Because it seems like the difference of frequency between the engine and the sounds affect these lasts.. (it already happened to me on another project)
That would help for making sounds. ;D
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on February 12, 2015, 06:42:09 PM
Since this thread is for questions about gpb's system, i'll profit to ask something. :>
At wich frequency (and how much bits e.g: 44100Hz and 32 bits) is gpbikes reading sound files ? Because it seems like the difference of frequency between the engine and the sounds affect these lasts.. (it already happened to me on another project)
That would help for making sounds. ;D
Any frequency and bits should be supported. However, the WAV files must be mono to be placed in 3D.
Ok.. So, I think i'll wait maxSCL to create sounds, because i really don't see what's the problem with them and it's long to restart the map to test everytime.. xD
And btw, not everything can be read by gpb, with some sounds, i have to resample them to make them work in game.
Quote from: Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) on February 13, 2015, 07:03:57 AM
Ok.. So, I think i'll wait maxSCL to create sounds, because i really don't see what's the problem with them and it's long to restart the map to test everytime.. xD
I've had less time to work on it recently so I'm a bit late. The good news is that everything works just fine, so what's left to do is just some polishing of the interface to make it handy.
If you want you can send me your .scl and your samples and I can take a look. Ideally you could send me:
- the .scl and all the .wav it uses
- the bike's .cfg file
- all the .engn and the .tyre files of the bike
That's because in the tool I'm making, when you open a .scl it automagically opens the bike's .cfg file (+ the .engn and the .tire) to get the physics parameters (masses, inertias, gearing etc) in order to simulate some very basic bike physics: in the tool you are then able to use the throttle and the gearbox to test your .scl.
MaX.
Max, why wouldn't you simply PM the question to Piboso?
Now we have this worthless thread of bickering for nothing that looks silly...
PS- I have to admit, Piboso's initial response was funny as hell though, lol...
Reminder- be thankful for where your at in all this. Go try communicating with "other" developers and see where you get.
Quote from: WALKEN on February 13, 2015, 04:09:43 PM
Max, why wouldn't you simply PM the question to Piboso?
Because there may be others interested in the answer.
Quote from: WALKEN on February 13, 2015, 04:09:43 PM
Reminder- be thankful for where your at in all this.
I am indeed.
MaX.
Right on Max ;)