Hi all,
in the past 2 weeks I've received at least 4 request from new players (coming from other games/sims) asking to have the tire temperature (and pression maybe) while riding.
GPB does not show them and they are not passed in the output plugin interface. This means that not only they are not available on-screen while riding, but they are not even available in the telemetry data.
MaX.
it would be really useful, style GP500
Yes I agree. The on-screen tyre temperature monitor on gp500 is simple, well executed and very useful indeed as your tyres warm-up and/or start to go-off. It allows you to more accurately manage your tyres in long races. Go too hard and you get a visual warning and you can back-off and conserve your tyres accordingly to remain strong in the closing stages of a race.
grT
Would I be right in thinking that this is not something that real rider would have on his dash?
I am up in the air about this, in the pit garage I can understand it. But while I am riding having a blue, green, and red tire icon on the screen is kind of arcade'ish for me.
More of learning to not push in the beginning, and how to deal with them when they start going off. Not a icon telling me when to expect it.
Quote from: teeds on February 19, 2015, 05:01:19 PM
Would I be right in thinking that this is not something that real rider would have on his dash?
Maybe, I'm not 100% sure. But in the telemetry you have this data, that's clear.
MaX.
Quote from: Klax75 on February 19, 2015, 05:18:02 PM
I am up in the air about this, in the pit garage I can understand it. But while I am riding having a blue, green, and red tire icon on the screen is kind of arcade'ish for me.
More of learning to not push in the beginning, and how to deal with them when they start going off. Not a icon telling me when to expect it.
+1, I also think you may have races when at the half way mark or so everyone drops off and the element of surprise is gone, but then again if your riding style is good or conservative you will save your tires and not need a display.
Quote from: Klax75 on February 19, 2015, 05:18:02 PM
I am up in the air about this, in the pit garage I can understand it. But while I am riding having a blue, green, and red tire icon on the screen is kind of arcade'ish for me.
More of learning to not push in the beginning, and how to deal with them when they start going off. Not a icon telling me when to expect it.
+1
Well said Klax.
This is surely not something to have while racing, but to have this information available as telemetry data and in the garage would be useful for testing and learning how to manage tyre degradation and performance.
Hawk.
@Hawk: the info is already available in the garage.
Personally I'd tend to agree with the ones saying you don't have this info while riding (even if I'm not 100% sure that's true on recent race bikes), but I do think it should be in the telemetry.
Maybe there's even something better: you could have this kind of "extra" info only in practice session: it's not unusual to have bikes with much more sensors in test sessions compared to quali/race sessions.
MaX.
how do they monitor tyre wear anyway? obviously you feel less grip when riding but isn't it just a visual thing after the race? its either ok or its screwed lol.
do they have sensors etc??
Just to play devil's advocate here for a second do racing motorcyclists in real life control their racing motorcycle whilst sitting motionless in a chair and holding a hand-held controller with a thumb-stick? ;)
I think it goes without saying that the essential ingredient missing in any m/c racing simulation at the moment is accurate "seat of the pants" feedback.
Until DD can come up with something very clever, which I think he will, are we convinced we are getting enough feedback on wear & grip from the tyres?
I agree with those who say they would rather not have it..but do you guys feel as though you are getting enough "feel" and feedback from the front and rear tyre?
Just being cheeky really. And yes it is an obvious point I am making. :P
grT
Quote from: HornetMaX on February 19, 2015, 05:57:33 PM
@Hawk: the info is already available in the garage.
Personally I'd tend to agree with the ones saying you don't have this info while riding (even if I'm not 100% sure that's true on recent race bikes), but I do think it should be in the telemetry.
Maybe there's even something better: you could have this kind of "extra" info only in practice session: it's not unusual to have bikes with much more sensors in test sessions compared to quali/race sessions.
MaX.
I'm quite sure that the tyre pressures and temps should have a greater effect on handling and grip than is currently so in game; unless the temps are very high or very cold there is not much noticeable effect from any changes a rider makes to tyre pressures and subsequent tyre temps, unless of course you go way overboard with the pressures.
I just think a graphical line type display(maybe on a separate telemetry screen option while in garage) would allow for a better understanding of what's happening during a track run than just the current simple display of tyre temps and wear rates. This would also allow for a better fine tuning of the tyre pressures, grip and handling.
Hawk.
Quote from: girlracerTracey on February 19, 2015, 06:14:31 PM
Just to play devil's advocate here for a second do racing motorcyclists in real life control their racing motorcycle whilst sitting motionless in a chair and holding a hand-held controller with a thumb-stick? ;)
I think it goes without saying that the essential ingredient missing in any m/c racing simulation at the moment is accurate "seat of the pants" feedback.
Until DD can come up with something very clever, which I think he will, are we convinced we are getting enough feedback on wear & grip from the tyres?
I agree with those who say they would rather not have it..but do you guys feel as though you are getting enough "feel" and feedback from the front and rear tyres?
Just being cheeky really. And yes it is an obvious point I am making. :P
grT
I can certainly feel the grip on my tyres while racing in GPB... I'm always screaming for better positive front-end tracking into the corners.... Sometimes I can find a setup that will give me what I want, other times no matter what I seem to try in the setup I just cannot get it how I want it.... Other times I loosen the rear end a little too much like I did at Silverstone yesterday, but sometimes to get that front end to track around you have to do that.
So I'd say that, "Yes", you can feel what your bike is doing in GPB if you practice enough to be able to feel any differences in the bikes performance; essential when trying to set a bike up. :)
Hawk.
To be honest in gp500 I feel the same thing Hawk. In the context of a racing game I do think that the feedback from the front and rear tyre in gp500 is pretty good. Certainly just about good enough to manage the tyre wear and feel the available grip. It's not like real life but then again it would be very difficult to emulate real life accurately. I guess in gp500 and/or gpbikes such a monitor would be there as an "aid" to whatever level of feel and feedback you are getting from the tyres..to help with the "feel" if you like.
I think the consensus on gpbikes, as a "simulator", would be not to have it in the simulation.
I sort of like the idea but in other ways I don't if I am honest. Once the front end "insecurity" on gpbikes is improved maybe I will be able to feel it better on the front end on gpbikes also?
grT
''I'm always screaming for better positive front-end tracking into the corners....''
THIS.....
Front wheel in GPB spends most of the time dragging itself sideways around corners... maybe thats why its so unstable?
It wont matter what controller you have grT, until FFB is :-
A. Written correctly to give an FFB controller the right kind of signal
B. The controller is designed to react in the right way and with the right amount of force
AND
C. Components to make a controller come down in price in the first place!!!
I have worked so hard to bring the cost down on a controller for everyone, but it is sooooooooo hard with component costs and time to build a system. I will lose a lot to start with but its the only way I can do it until I can MASS produce and bring costs down. I am working on it but it looks like £320 to £350 is the lowest I can go for a clamp-on Desktop system.
I think we NEED to have some way to know what state our tires are in, even if this is a sim, it is needed to compensate for the lack of actual physical feeling the tire behavior. If people were against it it could be put in as an aid that could be turned on or off like others, but it would be there to teach us how long tires last under certain conditions.
As BOBPPPPPP states it could be why many have front end problems, but I think thats more the coding, but it is a valdi point.
I want a thingymagigwatchamacallit from MAX too ;D ;D ;D Sorry but if we get one thats where it will come from in the end I think.
DD
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on February 19, 2015, 07:03:01 PM
''I'm always screaming for better positive front-end tracking into the corners....''
THIS.....
Front wheel in GPB spends most of the time dragging itself sideways around corners... maybe thats why its so unstable?
Well Bob, honestly I think that the front end instability in a lot of the bikes comes mostly from the bikes physics files(granted, most bikes physics are still very much a work in progress towards various stages of final completion), but also from a lot of the track surfaces too.
The new RCV(recently released) has proved that very good bike physics does solve the front end instability problems that we still hear so much about, though I still have not tested this bike on a bad track surface to see how it copes with those conditions? Maybe you have?
But the RCV is the only bike I've ridden that can cope with a
rising banked corner with no front end instability problems whatsoever. I was very impressed! ;D
Some people may continue to have a dig at GPB's main core physics as a continuing problem, but to me this proves them all wrong and that indeed it is the bikes physics that just need that fine tuning to solve the front end instability issues on most bikes.
What surprises me is that Piboso hasn't made sure that the default bikes are flawless in their bike physics as a showcase example of what any would-be bike physics modders can achieve if the bike physics files are done correctly.
Hawk.
Well put H, why are the default bikes not working as well as a modders bike. Is it not one of the main points that will sell GPB, the great physics of the bikes by Piboso??? Sorry but this is wrong, it should be a big priority to sell the game. If the demo bike just crashes all the time due to bad physics it must be putting a lot of people off paying for GPB. Its like me selling my controllers and only modded ones by my customers actually working!!!!!
Its a BIG issue!!! I would rather better default bike physics before a tire temp thingy
DD
Quote from: Hawk_UK on February 19, 2015, 06:14:44 PM
I'm quite sure that the tyre pressures and temps should have a greater effect on handling and grip than is currently so in game; unless the temps are very high or very cold there is not much noticeable effect from any changes a rider makes to tyre pressures and subsequent tyre temps, unless of course you go way overboard with the pressures.
Keep in mind that you have tire warmers in GPB: when you get out of the pits, the tires are already at 60deg.
If you start with really cold tires (or go on a really cold track), the difference is very visible.
MaX.