Noticed my 360 pad triggers have a lot of travel before either the throttle or brakes register movement in game. Has anyone tried any mods to improve this?
Seem to calibrate OK, just a lot of travel before they generate a signal.
Quote from: h106frp on June 13, 2015, 09:45:57 PM
Noticed my 360 pad triggers have a lot of travel before either the throttle or brakes register movement in game. Has anyone tried any mods to improve this?
Seem to calibrate OK, just a lot of travel before they generate a signal.
This doesn't happen to me... Have you got your controller throttle and brake settings set-up right? Sounds like you have "Deadzones" set greater than zero?
Hawk.
I don't use them for brake and throttle personally but clutch and rear brake (yeh I know I'm weird) but I do know what you are saying. The clutch movement on the trigger is especially bad.
As a suggestion, a method that helped me, was to play with the linearity. I always assumed 100% was best for full range of movement but after reading the prompt about linearity changes being better for gamepads I gave it a go and got interesting results. Maybe try it see what you think?
Deadzones are 0
I will try linearity and see if it helps
Most likely due too not being a genuine MS pad if not everyone notices the problem :(
Once had modified a crappy pad for that (easy mod, especialy for somebody like you, just open the pad and you'll see).
Best solution: but a microsoft 360 pad or (slightly better) a thrustmaster gpx (even the cheapest one, with no frills).
MaX.
Mystery solved, opened it up - and the pots are obviously just a crap design :(
The rotation is tiny and even moving the pot arm directly to negate the slop in the trigger linkage it does half its travel before windows registers any movement.
Possibility 1, the arm needs moving round to get the pot onto the 'start' of the resistive track. The arms are keyed to the pot so i would have to cut the key and glue the arms on - one way if this causes the controller to throw a wobbler.
Possibility 2, i have read that there might be a dead spot built in at the controller end and the rotation is just so small that the voltage change only just gets out of the dead region at half lever travel - bugger :( Only trick i know for this is conductive paint to shorten the track and these tiny pots are sealed >:(
edit:
Bit of probing with the meter suggests its mechanical :) and the start of the pot track is non resistive (meter does not change and then jumps up in resistance at half travel, must be to give a good 'gun trigger' action for shooting games, question is if i mod the arms will it all still calibrate out?
A bit more looking and i'm guessing its a log-antilog or S-taper pot, nothing at the start then a section of travel approximating linear and then not much change for the rest of the travel. So to make the controller more suitable for throttle and brake probably means swapping them for linear taper ones. now where did that spring go... ???
these might do the trick :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Alps-PCB-Potentiometer-RK09K-Series-with-a-6-mm-Dia-Shaft-10k-20-Linear-/221751186719?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a166951f (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Alps-PCB-Potentiometer-RK09K-Series-with-a-6-mm-Dia-Shaft-10k-20-Linear-/221751186719?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a166951f)
The old trick I used was to be drill a small hole by the trigger and using a screw to push the trigger in so you had less movement. You simply adjust it until it is just before activating movement in windows.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on June 14, 2015, 11:04:28 PM
The old trick I used was to be drill a small hole by the trigger and using a screw to push the trigger in so you had less movement. You simply adjust it until it is just before activating movement in windows.
DD
That would be good for fine adjusting and would make the trigger a lot less tiring to use as holding the trigger at the required point is a pain. My cheap copy controller only has 2 or 3 mm of useable travel so more severe surgery is required. Its really bad (unpredictable) on slow corners and the braking is really sudden with no progression due to the very sharp taper change.
I'm mouse and keyboard for shooters so modding the pad permanently for driving games is not a problem :) Not many PC only controllers around anymore, guess most will mainly be set up for console type play.
Quote from: h106frp on June 15, 2015, 12:03:38 AM
Quote from: doubledragoncc on June 14, 2015, 11:04:28 PM
The old trick I used was to be drill a small hole by the trigger and using a screw to push the trigger in so you had less movement. You simply adjust it until it is just before activating movement in windows.
DD
That would be good for fine adjusting and would make the trigger a lot less tiring to use as holding the trigger at the required point is a pain. My cheap copy controller only has 2 or 3 mm of useable travel so more severe surgery is required. Its really bad (unpredictable) on slow corners and the braking is really sudden with no progression due to the very sharp taper change.
I'm mouse and keyboard for shooters so modding the pad permanently for driving games is not a problem :) Not many PC only controllers around anymore, guess most will mainly be set up for console type play.
BUY.A.THRUSTMASTER.GPX.
Problem solved (Xbox 360 pad almost as good, GPX triggers are stiffer but have a longer travel so they are overall better).
MaX.
The problem i`m currently having is that on my Xbox one controller the triggers are too senstitive.
With about 75% trigger travel, ingame it registers as 100% on brake & throttle which leads to spectacular frontflips and highsides. At first i thought it was just me being an old and slow fart because having not played the game for a while, but then i noticed this issue with the triggers and google shows i`m not the only only one.
I guess there is no easy way to fix this right?
I miss my old 360 pad :(
Quote from: JamoZ on June 15, 2015, 09:21:28 AM
The problem i`m currently having is that on my Xbox one controller the triggers are too senstitive.
With about 75% trigger travel, ingame it registers as 100%
Yeah, the triggers are the problem of the XBoxOne pad: their mechanical travel is not too far from the one of the 360, but they reach their max output before reaching the mechanical stop. This is very annoying. The sticks have more or less the same problem (the stick is at +/-100% before hitting the mechanical stop).
The Thrustmaster GPX has sticks as good as XBox 360 ones and arguably better triggers (longer travel, stiffer springs).
P.S.
I have the three pads: Xbox 360, Xbox One and GPX (well, actually I've sold the One on ebay :) yesterday).
And normally I'm not very fond of thrustmaster products (last pad I had from them was total crap in GPB).
Quote from: JamoZ on June 15, 2015, 09:21:28 AM
The problem i`m currently having is that on my Xbox one controller the triggers are too senstitive.
With about 75% trigger travel, ingame it registers as 100% on brake & throttle which leads to spectacular frontflips and highsides. At first i thought it was just me being an old and slow fart because having not played the game for a while, but then i noticed this issue with the triggers and google shows i`m not the only only one.
I guess there is no easy way to fix this right?
I miss my old 360 pad :(
This is fixable if your happy with the rest of the controller :) , google 'controller trigger stops', basically a small screw into the base of the trigger that limits how far you can push it in. Cheap fix :)
Quote from: h106frp on June 15, 2015, 09:57:25 AM
Quote from: JamoZ on June 15, 2015, 09:21:28 AM
The problem i`m currently having is that on my Xbox one controller the triggers are too senstitive.
With about 75% trigger travel, ingame it registers as 100% on brake & throttle which leads to spectacular frontflips and highsides. At first i thought it was just me being an old and slow fart because having not played the game for a while, but then i noticed this issue with the triggers and google shows i`m not the only only one.
I guess there is no easy way to fix this right?
I miss my old 360 pad :(
This is fixable if your happy with the rest of the controller :) , google 'controller trigger stops', basically a small screw into the base of the trigger that limits how far you can push it in. Cheap fix :)
Yeah but then you're left with a very very short travel (well shorter of the triggers of the Xbox 360 pad).
MaX.
Agreed with the 360 as its meant as a mod for shooting games, but from the description of the 'one' it was that the over travel has no useful travel (electrical output) anyway. Seems the reverse of my 360 issues with no output at the start of travel.
Looked up GPX and it does seem that they have made the effort to sort the triggers for driving games. Seems like they are pushing the new light up version and discontinuing the original. Hunting around for best prices, seem to vary as lot.
Some reports of driver install issues with the new one though, windows not recognizing it as a MS 360 controller.
I have a a basic one: no led lights, no ferrari logo. And no issues.
There's even a more basic one (GP XID) which is PC only (no xbox 360 compatibility): it's even chepaer (20GBP or less) but it's only white (which, honestly, sucks).
MaX.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-XID-Wired-Gamepad-DVD/dp/B008IDHZMC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434367566&sr=8-1&keywords=thrustmaster+gp+xid (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-XID-Wired-Gamepad-DVD/dp/B008IDHZMC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434367566&sr=8-1&keywords=thrustmaster+gp+xid)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-GPX-Wired-Controller-Xbox/dp/B008JABA5C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1434367605&sr=8-2&keywords=thrustmaster+gpx (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-GPX-Wired-Controller-Xbox/dp/B008JABA5C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1434367605&sr=8-2&keywords=thrustmaster+gpx)
MaX.
Well the PC only white one looks like a medical implement :-\
The older non light version is out of stock most places, and nearly as much as the new one if you find it discounted, guess it is discontinued stock now
Found a decent price on the ferrari one which i quite like - might get a ducati or honda makeover though ;D
All reports say the main direction sticks are better than the stock controllers as well and i do notice the lack of precision around the centre on the 360 box.
Yes, the 360 ones have a bit of slack at neutral, but that's not extremely important for our purpose.
Anyway, you'll have to check this on the GPX in a few months of intensive play :)
MaX.
Some new stuff with Xbox pads.
Microsoft announced few minutes ago a new "Elite" gamepad, which is a customisable Xbox One controller. It seems to be fully modable and I think it will be great for GPB.
(http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/1179/11799911/2884816-xboxe3.jpg)
Just waiting for the price ;D
i bet it has the same shitty triggers as the normal one :-X
Like the buttons under the grips, they allow to use index finger on the trigger.
I have just sold my xbox one pad, nice timing :)
MaX.
XBox and Windows 10 are the only quoted platforms though
Just a matter of time.
MaX.
Not keen on it.. Id just like an xb1 pad with stiffer triggers..
Those padle things would p!ss me off, glad its not standard lol.
just take it apart and replace the springs with thicker ones like I do. Use a safety pin and bend it into the same shape.
Microsoft just stole the idea from the Scuff modding company that GirlracerTracy uses so its nothing new and bound to be pricey lol.
DD
150$ for the Elite pad. Nice try MS! ;D
Quote from: RiccoChicco on June 15, 2015, 11:27:27 PM
150$ for the Elite pad. Nice try MS! ;D
Bargain lol ::) :-X
At the same time, the scuff are not exactly cheap neither ...
The buttons on the back are a good idea though: put those fingers at work.
We need the thumbs on the sticks, so the ABXY and the POV hat are useless for us ...
MaX.
But all the buttons on the back can they be used as NEW buttons. I've used controllers like this and they have always been just alternate buttons for what you have already. Just hitting them on a different spot on the control. Now if it was four totally new trigger/button axis for me it would be useful.
Quote from: Klax75 on June 16, 2015, 12:59:48 AM
But all the buttons on the back can they be used as NEW buttons. I've used controllers like this and they have always been just alternate buttons for what you have already. Just hitting them on a different spot on the control. Now if it was four totally new trigger/button axis for me it would be useful.
I don't think they are new buttons, they can just be remapped to existing buttons.
But at the same time, as we have to have the thumbs on the sticks and 2 fingers for the triggers, how many buttons we need ? There are only 6 fingers left ...
MaX.
I use both thumbs, both pointer fingers, and both middle fingers when I play GP Bikes with a XBox 360 or XBox One controller. And I'd still like two additional triggers. :)
Quote from: Klax75 on June 16, 2015, 07:24:02 AM
I use both thumbs, both pointer fingers, and both middle fingers when I play GP Bikes with a XBox 360 or XBox One controller.
Like most of us I guess :)
Quote from: Klax75 on June 16, 2015, 07:24:02 AM
And I'd still like two additional triggers. :)
Ah, you meant additional triggers, not buttons ... additional triggers I could eventually see the usage, but additional buttons not really.
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 15, 2015, 09:06:26 PM
Just a matter of time.
MaX.
Problem is it looks like it will be heavily (software) configuration dependent to define the axis profiles so it might need more than just simple driver support :(
As said elsewhere yes more analogue axis required.
Gpbikes needs analogue:
1. Throttle
2. Brake
3. Lean Bike L
4. Lean Bike R
5. Rider down
6. Rider up
7. Rider lean L
8. Rider lean R
9. Rider look L
10. Rider look R
11. Clutch
12. Rear Brake
Obviously these are axis so some will be combined to need one control. Did I miss any? For me at the moment I sacrifice rider lean for rider look. With a properly working head tracker this could be recovered.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 16, 2015, 07:57:30 AM
As said elsewhere yes more analogue axis required.
Gpbikes needs analogue:
1. Throttle
2. Brake
3. Lean Bike L
4. Lean Bike R
5. Rider down
6. Rider up
7. Rider lean L
8. Rider lean R
9. Rider look L
10. Rider look R
11. Clutch
12. Rear Brake
Obviously these are axis so some will be combined to need one control. Did I miss any? For me at the moment I sacrifice rider lean for rider look. With a properly working head tracker this could be recovered.
You didn't miss any, actually you counted some twice ... I'd say:
- Bike lean L/R (that's a single axis, with positive and negative values)
- Throttle
- Brake
- Rear Brake
- Clutch
- Rider lean F/B
- Rider lean L/R
This makes 7 axes, even 6 if you combine Throttle and Brake on the same axis (but then hey, you won't be able to do burn-outs).
You can also save an extra axis on rider lean F/B: likely 2 buttons are enough for that (you don't really need to be 75.5% tucked in).
A pad provides 5 axes (4 on the two joysticks, 1 on the combined triggers) or 6 when using xinput (separate triggers). So we're mostly there, not sure more analog axes would help a lot.
For head look (look left, right) I only see two options: either you use two buttons or you go with head tracking/mouse look.
MaX.
9 and 10 are basically resolved if you don't mind EDTracker. I have been using it all the time for 2 weeks now and its super reliable with the driver issue resolved to enable freelook emulation (absolute position) using openlook, mouselook was pretty terrible to use.
3 DOF is fine for GPB head movement at the moment.
thinks.... Second tracker for core body movement F/B/L/R 8) :-\ ...... maybe
It should be even better with native support mainly due to the fact that we always know the absolute reference point in GPB is fixed looking straight out in front of the bike. Nice to have the choice of driver though as openlook has nice definable curves for axis movement rates.
Once you get over the novelty of huge view swings ;) and use it more naturally it really does restore that natural tendency to 'look where you want to go'. The best thing is you tend to forget you are even using it, the view just moving naturally up the track to the next corner. Slow hairpins where you tend to look across the turn are much improved.
Only downside is attaching it to your head somehow, OK if you use headphones otherwise its baseball cap/cycle helmet or girlie hairgrip thing.
Best cheap gadget i have bought for gaming :)
Yep one more analogue set of axis would do it but more configurations would give more choices. I mean the top shoulder buttons - any reason these can't be analogue too? I did say some would be confined to one control.
Mouse look you need a third arm and hand for so that can be ruled out. Head tracking I think from the discussions is irrelevant now, theres no interest in it, everyone's creaming for VR.
Pro's who ride as it should be (lol wind em up and let em go ); 1st person, understand the need for rider look for situational awareness and prefer an analogue axis to do it (only looking max left/right would be immersively grim).
I will post over at the Microsoft forum, they must have a 'hopes and dreams' topic too.
Yes H I followed your ed tracker thread with a certain joy I must say.
The general lack of interest in head tracking/multiple monitors etc rubbed off on me though so I learnt to use the controller for looking about. That's not to say the ed tracker option is dead in the water for me it still gets me excited so I may yet partake :)
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 08:43:08 AM
It should be even better with native support mainly due to the fact that we always know the absolute reference point in GPB is fixed looking straight out in front of the bike.
Why would it be better ? I don't get the point.
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 08:43:08 AM
Nice to have the choice of driver though as openlook has nice definable curves for axis movement rates.
Yep, that was my initial thought, opentrack may be more flexible than what EDTracker give by itself.
BTW the dll fix will be in the next release of opentrack.
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 08:43:08 AM
Once you get over the novelty of huge view swings ;) and use it more naturally it really does restore that natural tendency to 'look where you want to go'. The best thing is you tend to forget you are even using it, the view just moving naturally up the track to the next corner. Slow hairpins where you tend to look across the turn are much improved.
I think this may well be the thing that pushes me to go with rider view :)
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 16, 2015, 08:50:06 AM
I mean the top shoulder buttons - any reason these can't be analogue too?
An analog button ? You mean what, pressure sensitive ?
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 16, 2015, 08:50:06 AM
Head tracking I think from the discussions is irrelevant now, theres no interest in it, everyone's creaming for VR.
I think that's wrong. The EDtracker thing costs nothing (40 quid). VR headsets are great but also have cons (cost, requirements, you're isolated from the real world, ...).
I an buy an EDTRacker tomorrow just for the sake of giving it a try. Not sure I'd do the same for a rift ...
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 16, 2015, 08:50:06 AM
Pro's who ride as it should be (lol wind em up and let em go ); 1st person, understand the need for rider look for situational awareness and prefer an analogue axis to do it (only looking max left/right would be immersively grim).
Why ? If it is done nicely it could be enough: press & hold, the view rotates not too fast, when you release it re-centers. So its associated to a on/off button, but it's kind of analog ...
But head tracking is better. You can give it a try if you have a web-cam (even if this kind of camera based head-tracking is not as good as an EDTracker).
MaX.
P.S.
I'm just waiting the "commercial grade" EDtracker version to arrive (should be July) before buying one.
@Max, opentrack sets it centre when you press start and you tend to be looking at this point (start button) on the screen. The game view centre will always be immediately in front of the bike, center screen, and most people sit centred to their monitor (not so good for living room TV/couch i suppose) so in joystick positions (assuming edtracker is already suitably calibrated) this can always be 0,0 and no need for pressing the centering button to get started (plug and playness ;) ).
Just a lazy observation having used it for a bit.
Once set the zero never drifts and never loses lock so it is true laziness by me :)
Very keen to see a commercialized version of EDTracker, I'm guessing a proper circuit board (not prototyping dev boards as currently) could shrink the device size down dramatically and further reduce cost. Will it have wireless/bluetooth connectivity and battery option?
Once a first person rider/driver/player nothing else will do :) Never even bother checking 3rd person in any sim. A good first person view is the top requirement for me in anything that claims to be a 'simulation' and with VR it will be the only view with any real purpose.
.... my personal view on VR at the moment
Having taken a look at what on the way with VR it still seems it might be a few year away before its mainstream. I am a VR fan and i think the biggest benefit will be the stereoscopic sense of 'depth' it will bring to your surroundings. Looking over you shoulder for the first time ever must be a truly awesome experience for any game.
The cost is shocking though (for non vomit inducing experience) much higher than expected.. my idea of 'consumer' is not £1000 and most people will be looking at big system updates to support it properly. Not sure it is realistic for the VR device manufacturers to be dependent on GPU builders to get their devices working right and NVidia/AMD are more likely to build a (non compatible) device of their own than make any effort to support a 3rd party, Intel is probably their best hope.
We all expect the first consumer units will be out of date during the first release year so people will be wary of investing this much to get the ball rolling.
The lack of a standard framework for VR devices will put developers off and be a stumbling block for cheaper manufacturers. I believe MS tried with DirectX but everyone has chosen to ignore it, i am surprised VESA have not stepped in to form some basic standards before it all unravels.
So for now its my lowly (although analogue) £30 head tracker ;)
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 09:35:18 AM
@Max, opentrack sets it centre when you press start and you tend to be looking at this point (start button) on the screen. The game view centre will always be immediately in front of the bike, center screen, and most people sit centred to their monitor (not so good for living room TV/couch i suppose) so in joystick positions (assuming edtracker is already suitably calibrated) this can always be 0,0 and no need for pressing the centering button to get started (plug and playness ;) ).
But even if EDTracker is supported natively by GPB you'll have to press the button to tell GPB what is your "centered" head position.
BTW, in open-track you can bind a key to re-center.
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 09:35:18 AM
Once set the zero never drifts and never loses lock
Magnetometer power FTW !! [laughing at those IR trackers buahhahaha]
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 09:35:18 AM
Very keen to see a commercialized version of EDTracker, I'm guessing a proper circuit board (not prototyping dev boards as currently) could shrink the device size down dramatically and further reduce cost. Will it have wireless/bluetooth connectivity and battery option?
One of EDTracker team members told me the comm version will be functionally identical, just a better case, single circuit board, sturdier USB connector. No idea of the cost, but should be out soon.
They already have the hardware ready and are revamping the GUI before launch.
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 09:35:18 AM
Once a first person rider/driver/player nothing else will do :) Never even bother checking 3rd person in any sim. A good first person view is the top requirement for me in anything that claims to be a 'simulation' and with VR it will be the only view with any real purpose.
I agree, but on bikes I still like to see what the bike does, how it behaves and reacts. These are much easier to see from outside.
On car games for example (KRP, WRS) I'm much much less tempted by the 3rd person view.
MaX.
QuoteQuote from: Napalm Nick on Today at 09:50:06
I mean the top shoulder buttons - any reason these can't be analogue too?
An analog button ? You mean what, pressure sensitive ?
Taking the xbox controller as the example the lower shoulder buttons are analogue/pressure sensitive so why not the top?
QuoteQuote from: Napalm Nick on Today at 09:50:06
Head tracking I think from the discussions is irrelevant now, theres no interest in it, everyone's creaming for VR.
I think that's wrong. The EDtracker thing costs nothing (40 quid). VR headsets are great but also have cons (cost, requirements, you're isolated from the real world, ...).
I an buy an EDTRacker tomorrow just for the sake of giving it a try. Not sure I'd do the same for a rift ...
I can see why you think that, I mean your technical reasons I agree, but reality reasons (the direction my comment came from) proves otherwise - there's you, me and H interested (by the feedback), maybe a few others keeping quiet or have already said they are waiting for VR- not enough to convince me its not irrelevant.
Quote
Quote from: Napalm Nick on Today at 09:50:06
Pro's who ride as it should be (lol wind em up and let em go ); 1st person, understand the need for rider look for situational awareness and prefer an analogue axis to do it (only looking max left/right would be immersively grim).
Why ? If it is done nicely it could be enough: press & hold, the view rotates not too fast, when you release it re-centers. So its associated to a on/off button, but it's kind of analog ...
But head tracking is better. You can give it a try if you have a web-cam (even if this kind of camera based head-tracking is not as good as an EDTracker).
I already have a lot of experience with Head Tracking in simulators like FSX, F1, DCS, ARMA etc using TrackIR. These games also allow you to assign look left/right non analogue buttons and control the speed of the look if you don't have head tracking. No one with a head track setup would choose this though - it is awful. But yes if this was a Make do topic rather than a Hopes and Dreams topic I would agree.
QuoteP.S.
I'm just waiting the "commercial grade" EDtracker version to arrive (should be July) before buying one.
It is highly likely I will also get this.
And H, I think mummy and daddies need to ensure little Johnnie isn't missing out on his human rights - means a £/$/E1000 will be spent without an eyelid being batted. Who's kid never got the new Xbox when a tear was shed? £30 well spent on EDT, I wonder how much the 'retail' version will be. The only poor people in this world are the ones who can't find food to eat, no-one else.
Fortunately my fridge is empty so I wont be splashing out on VR at release.
Edit word cat to can't : nobody should eat cats
Your last point raises the bigger issue, what will little Johnnie be like after he has spent hours/days/weeks immersed in VR?, how long before its blamed for some unpleasant incident in the real world? :(
Get ready for compulsory nag screens and health warnings every 20 minutes ('reality flash' - ;D hah! i just thought up a new thing)
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 16, 2015, 10:15:11 AM
Taking the xbox controller as the example the lower shoulder buttons are analogue/pressure sensitive so why not the top?
OK, so you want a couple of extra triggers (that's how they are called, despite the fact the name sucks).
I'm not sure you can find a position for them that is really usable. Where would you put them ?
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 16, 2015, 10:15:11 AM
I can see why you think that, I mean your technical reasons I agree, but reality reasons (the direction my comment came from) proves otherwise - there's you, me and H interested (by the feedback), maybe a few others keeping quiet or have already said they are waiting for VR- not enough to convince me its not irrelevant.
For 30-40 quid, anybody using rider view should buy a head tracker no doubt. The additional immersion you get is huge. Then yes, a proper VR set is way better (for way more money, of course).
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 16, 2015, 10:15:11 AM
I already have a lot of experience with Head Tracking in simulators like FSX, F1, DCS, ARMA etc using TrackIR. These games also allow you to assign look left/right non analogue buttons and control the speed of the look if you don't have head tracking. No one with a head track setup would choose this though - it is awful. But yes if this was a Make do topic rather than a Hopes and Dreams topic I would agree.
I agree, but head tracking is not so necessary for GPB and car games IMO. It may be more important for other games of course.
And ditch that TrackIR (or better, sell it on ebay before EDtracker gets popular) :)
MaX.
The big, and not so obvious advantage with EDTracker is user comfort, 3DOF and no camera removes the conscious effort and unnatural head pose required when using IR tracking. Tried IR several times with various head clip designs, even tried face (shape) tracking but found them all (physically) unpleasant to use after quite a short period.
With the inertial system you can look around the room at stuff (TV, missus, dog, cat, beer etc) without the tracking losing lock and when you look back to the game the tracking resumes with no glitches 8), Wear and forget!
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
With the inertial system you can look around the room at stuff (TV, missus, dog, cat, beer etc) without the tracking losing lock and when you look back to the game the tracking resumes with no glitches 8), Wear and forget!
Wear ? You can get one implanted in your head ! :)
MaX.
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 16, 2015, 10:45:49 AM
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
With the inertial system you can look around the room at stuff (TV, missus, dog, cat, beer etc) without the tracking losing lock and when you look back to the game the tracking resumes with no glitches 8), Wear and forget!
Wear ? You can get one implanted in your head ! :)
MaX.
In a future coming to you soon.........
very possibly ;)
Quote from: Klax75 on June 16, 2015, 12:59:48 AM
But all the buttons on the back can they be used as NEW buttons. I've used controllers like this and they have always been just alternate buttons for what you have already. Just hitting them on a different spot on the control. Now if it was four totally new trigger/button axis for me it would be useful.
If you add the Bodnar BU0836A-NC board to your set up you could add ;
Inputs
- 8 analog inputs with 12-bit (4096 steps) resolution each
- 32 button / 16 rotary encoder inputs
- 8-way "point-of-view" hat switch input
to a stock controller.
How about 8 of these low profile analogue thumb sticks, you could stick them on with double sided tape ;D;
You could do 4 on the inside of the pad 'horns' with your lower fingers which are spare at the moment :)
(http://www.technobotsonline.com/images/detailed/2/Ext-2000-386.jpg)
Plenty of space around a std controller for addition, especially on the base. Think you would run out of fingers before inputs.
You have got me thinking a rocking paddle shift (like a steering wheel one) could easily be made to stick on the back of the 360 and wired instead of the corner buttons, i think this would be much easier to operate for gears without accidentally pulling on the triggers at the same time.
I reckon a couple of bits of PCB board, 2 old motherboard standoffs, 2 PCB tactile switches and a spring and you would be done.
Mmmmmmm.......... 8)
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 01:31:19 PM
Plenty of space around a std controller for addition, especially on the base. Think you would run out of fingers before inputs.
If you want an analog stick/trigger it's because you want finesse: if you put the stick/trigger in an awkward position it won't be useful.
That's why current joypad have "only" 2 sticks and 2 triggers. More than that it becomes difficult to find something actually usable.
Technically it's not a problem to put plenty more on a pad.
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 01:31:19 PM
You have got me thinking a rocking paddle shift (like a steering wheel one) could easily be made to stick on the back of the 360 and wired instead of the corner buttons, i think this would be much easier to operate for gears without accidentally pulling on the triggers at the same time.
I'm starting thinking you hold your pad in a weird manner: "accidentally pulling triggers while operating gears" never happens, because you have your index fingers on the shoulder buttons (for gears) and your middle fingers on the triggers (typically for throttle and brake). Are you trying to use only index fingers to do both throttle/brake and shift up/down ?
MaX.
No i use the standard number of fumble fingers / control ;D
I think i am not really a standard control pad person, never owned a console and i have always been awful with play station pads. :-[
Lethal with keyboard and mouse though ;)
Weird really because i play guitar so have precision spider fingers when i am doing that, just weird :o
Well, as the cheapo 360 controller will be retired for a shiny new GPX one with decent analogue sticks i may as well have some fun with it before it ends up in the attic ;D
Ordered a couple of linear pots to try on the triggers - very cheap, just out of curiosity
and lets try shift paddles! ;D
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ID7uKscojLo/VYCXWG6PAhI/AAAAAAAAAUA/ZYOxROaRauI/w1342-h754-no/WP_20150616_002.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k1YWYi9gY0I/VYCXYJh9EtI/AAAAAAAAAUI/qzllTKGsAws/w1342-h754-no/WP_20150616_003.jpg)
Its just going to be glued to the bottom of the controller so i don't need to worry about screws shorting anything out. Actually seems to put the gear shift controls in a very comfy position and seems to work amazingly well for something made out of my bits box, nice and clicky. Maybe MS are on to something :o
Total cost £1.36 for the 2 tactile switches because i did not have any to hand :(
Parts list ::)
1 piece of scrap ally plate
2 screws
1 spring (cut)
1 icicle stick
1 old ram heat sink for base
2 switches
1 veroboard offcut
Will wire it up along with the new pots when they arrive ;D
I really love this experimental give it a go stuff. Enjoyable following.
Bravo sir.
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 16, 2015, 09:58:31 PM
I really love this experimental give it a go stuff. Enjoyable following.
Bravo sir.
+1 ;D
That paddle looks loads better than the poxy microsoft nail files... Good stuff ;)
Nice !
Quote from: h106frp on June 16, 2015, 09:54:43 PM
Actually seems to put the gear shift controls in a very comfy position and seems to work amazingly well for something made out of my bits box, nice and clicky. Maybe MS are on to something :o
More than maybe, but they are for sure not the ones that invented that wheel. Buttons put there are comfy for sure.
MaX.
One thing i immediately noticed was that it is nice to have the paddle well back from the controller grips so that you can still grip the controller is the usual comfortable way. Looks a bit odd but seems right in the hand ::)
The ones on the elite controller appear to be quite easy to activate by accident unless they are very stiff triggers.
Might well develop this into something prettier for the new controller as i have never got on well with the shoulder buttons on any controller so generally wasted.
@MaX, r.e. holding the controller weird.. holding my hands in a natural, comfortable position it seems that for me the shoulder buttons would need to be moved down, back and inboard about 20mm in each redirection to fall in a natural location (for digit 3) if using the triggers(digit 2) at the same time. Guess they have to design these things for everyone, male/female from age 5 and up so the compromise dimensions will not suit everyone :(
Quote from: h106frp on June 17, 2015, 07:13:06 AM
One thing i immediately noticed was that it is nice to have the paddle well back from the controller grips so that you can still grip the controller is the usual comfortable way. Looks a bit odd but seems right in the hand ::)
The ones on the elite controller appear to be quite easy to activate by accident unless they are very stiff triggers.
Might well develop this into something prettier for the new controller as i have never got on well with the shoulder buttons on any controller so generally wasted.
@MaX, r.e. holding the controller weird.. holding my hands in a natural, comfortable position it seems that for me the shoulder buttons would need to be moved down, back and inboard about 20mm in each redirection to fall in a natural location (for digit 3) if using the triggers(digit 2) at the same time. Guess they have to design these things for everyone, male/female from age 5 and up so the compromise dimensions will not suit everyone :(
I'm 3'3", needless to say I have small hands. lol I can hold the controller fine with both thumbs and pointers and middle fingers.
Think my problem is i have big wide hands and stumpy fingers ;)
Just to close this one down...
The linear pots turned up, wrong pattern to fit the controller board :(
As the controller is going in the parts box - its generally too crap to bother fixing up - i thought i would pull one of the pots to have a proper measure.
They are a special short resistive track design - no resistance change for most of the rotation then the full 0-10kohm in about 10 degrees
Problem is that from the start angle of the pot half the travel was traversing the area with no resistance change then just a bit of the resistive area - very bad - the actuator arm is fixed in position due to the pot shaft drive lug alignment so no easy fix anyway.
Mystery solved - just a very poor design - file under b1n ;)
I will move my flappy paddle experiments to the Bodnar board :)
edit:
Link to a bit more detailed info on the MS elite controller, seems pretty clever but pricey
http://gizmodo.com/so-this-is-what-a-150-xbox-controller-feels-like-1712318136 (http://gizmodo.com/so-this-is-what-a-150-xbox-controller-feels-like-1712318136)