Not too long ago, Milestone released a motorcycle simulator called Ride, and biking enthusiasts every where love the game. People have been wondering which is more realistic... Ride or GP Bikes. I've read some comments here before, and some people have been calling ride an arcade game. I bought the game two days ago, and I must say two things: 1) Ride is a simulator, not an arcade game. 2) It's insanely addictive.
Let me point out why Ride is such an easy game to play, and yet is a simulator, while GP bikes is much harder. Firstly, GP bikes give you more control. You have more control over the clutch, throttle, rider position, and bike settings. Ride on the other hand, takes a lot of control away from the player. The game is constantly making subtle corrections and optimizations to player input. For example, as the rear starts to slide, there is some slight throttle management that makes it a bit harder to high-side. And as you lean left and right, the handling bar is kept stable (to prevent the constant wobbles that plague GP bikes). Low-sides are not common with Ride unless you're on the breaks too long, as rider lean is managed automatically.
GP bikes on the other hand gives you almost full control. However a bike in GP bikes is much harder to ride than a bike in real life for a few reasons: Firstly, GP Bike's motorcycles are unstable. The suspension mechanics are 'bouncy', and the steering input is too raw for a keyboard or a gamepad. This is why low-sides are so common with GP bikes. Especially if played with a keyboard. You see, modern motorcycles have advanced suspension systems, and highly stable chassis. GP bikes motorcycles however, have none or very few of the inherently stable attributes that modern motorcycles have been engineered to possess. So crashes in GP bikes are far more common than they would be in real life. If you watch SBK or Moto GP you'll notice how stable those bikes are, even though they're being ridden at their limits.
Ride is an emulation of real-world motorcycles, as Milestone used data that the bike manufacturers gave them for each motorcycles. This includes the stable suspension and chassis. Ride does need to improve in many areas. For instance, curbs and grass give too much traction, and walls are like ice. The overall collision dynamics are also unrealistic, but the bikes are well-simulated. Older bikes are less stable, and wobble more, while the modern bikes are much easier to handle.
So those are the main differences between Ride and GP Bikes. They're both simulators, but Ride caters more to the general population, and GP bikes caters more to purists. The main differences between the games are in the amount of control they give the players.
I stopped play after a week to Ride, too arcade and unfunny in my opinion.
In my country (Milestone its Italian) we say: "E' una cacata pazzesca!"
It could be translated as: not very nice! ;D
And Ride is a 'finished' game and GPBikes is in Beta. Might be worth a consideration?
There's a lot more I could say but its all been said before so I cant be bothered. Each to their own.
Personally Ride bores the tits off me, and GpBikes gives me more fun than tits. ;D
Of course the fact that GP bikes is a beta means it won't be perfect. It's a much better game than Ride, I believe. But the fact that Ride has so many bikes makes it a decent game (aside from the bugs and missing features that Milestone is infamous for).
Remember that Gp Bikes has endless possibilities, thanks to us, we can create our content and share with the community (as you can also see in my signature, it would be based in the 125 Gp Bikes)
have you ever ridden a real motorcycle?
€: thats all ill add to this thread.
In terms of simulation accuracy:
Ride : GP Bikes = Kim Kardashian : Alessandra Ambrosio
Is Ride fun/addictive ? Not for me, but for others yes.
Is Ride a simulator ? No. A simulator tries to replicate the real physics. Ride does not do that: Ride tries to give you something funny and accessible to play with.
MaX.
I own two motorcycles and a quad bike.
Welcome aboard anyway Chaos hope to see you on track for some fun mate.
Welcome to our forums Urban.
Please try to post in the appropriate sections, thank you.
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 30, 2015, 02:13:56 PM
In terms of simulation accuracy:
Ride : GP Bikes = Kim Kardashian : Alessandra Ambrosio
great comparison :D
REALLY! are we back to this?............................ I like RIDE with my controller its fun, but thats it...............simulation.............Is there a way to show me rolling on the floor, peeing my panties with laughter and still trying not to spill my beer!
DD
I enjoyed RIDE for a couple of hours, but to call it a sim is a couple of bridges too far imo. A game where i can apply full brake mid corner, while jumping over the curbs and hitting a AI bike mid air only to bounce off the wall again and continue my way unharmed i do not call a simulator...
Exactly what I've been saying. Except you misunderstand something. Ride accurate simulates the vehicle dynamics of a two-wheeled machine, but the collision-physics are bad, the curbs give too much traction, and the motorcycle hardly gets bent out if shape because it does not allow the player to break too hard, change direction too quickly, apply the throttle too sharply, etc. In terms of how the bikes behave in an environment with no walls, curbs, grass, or other bikes, the bikes behave realistically. The rest of what constitutes the game though, is very much arcade.
I think I misspoke when I called ride a simulator, as I was referring solely to how the bikes behave on a flat surface. Ride, is a sim-cade game.
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 07:36:30 AM
Exactly what I've been saying. Except you misunderstand something. Ride accurate simulates the vehicle dynamics of a two-wheeled machine
[snip]
In terms of how the bikes behave in an environment with no walls, curbs, grass, or other bikes, the bikes behave realistically.
Sorry, but no. Not by a mile (a Klingon mile, roughly equivalent to a human light-year).
MaX.
I would say a Vulcan mile actually Max, its far more logical.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on July 01, 2015, 08:05:50 AM
I would say a Vulcan mile actually Max, its far more logical.
Admittedly, I'm not a big Star Trek fan :)
MaX.
You know it sure makes a lot of sense to disagree obstinately, and provide no basis other than the overt implication that you are right.
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 08:21:36 AM
You know it sure makes a lot of sense to disagree obstinately, and provide no basis other than the overt implication that you are right.
You're right on that, but I considered not useful to detail the arguments given that of all the users we have here, you're probably the only one that thinks Ride is a good simulator.
To be honest also, I don't really know where to start from: watching a 20sec video of ride is enough for me to be 110% sure it simulates very little of a real bike (but before you ask, yes, I did try Ride).
Aside from what Jamoz said (e.g. braking at will while leaning), the thing that always strikes me is the roll dynamic of the milestone games: the bike leans left/right in a very weird manner, as if it had very little inertia. I think Ride (and Milestone in general) may be using an explicit model for the bike dynamics: this is very very limited compared to what GPB does (multi-body). The explicit model is much simpler to implement and tune (that explains why they use it), but the results are not as good as with a good multi-body model. In the industry and the academic world, molti-body models have been the norm for a long time now (I'd say 15-20 years).
Other points that made me not very inclined to argue:
- you seem to think GPB can't be played / is difficult to play with a joypad, which is uh, wrong. Some of the fast guys here can race 20 laps at fast pace without falling once.
- you think GPB gives "more control", but even with the exact same control as Ride, GPB is way closer to the reality than what Ride is. How much control it gives is not relevant.
- you mention playing with a keyboard. Sorry, that's a no-no.
But nobody here will make the effort to convince you: we've just informed that your statement "Ride is a good simulator" is most likely wrong.
Of course, anybody is still aloowed to enjoy Ride (and I know many here that play it).
MaX.
I am starting to like the fact I have AI riders to race against and dont have to go online, although the AI must be gay they are always up me bottom and touching me up!
I cant use a gamepad with it but with my handlebar unit its actually a bit of fun.My first test ride in it on video, they got me in the end........bugger lol
https://www.youtube.com/v/cMC7wPijSso
DD
Gotta agree Max. The steering is terrible in RIDE there is a massive hole in the center, if just that got fixed it would be sooooooooo much better, but its the same in all games coded for gamepads because of the sticks.
DD
There we go Max, that wasn't so hard. Firstly, I didn't say Ride was a good simulator. Secondly, GPB does give more control, and I have explained why that is relevant to a reasonable extent in my first post. Third, GP bikes is very playable, even with a keyboard, but it is not ideal. You can play with the 125cc, but for the other bikes, it's quite a problematic endeavour to game with a keyboard.
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 08:55:43 AM
There we go Max, that wasn't so hard. Firstly, I didn't say Ride was a good simulator
Really ?! Because in your first post I read this:
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on June 30, 2015, 01:00:03 PM
1) Ride is a simulator, not an arcade game.
The overall collision dynamics are also unrealistic, but the bikes are well-simulated.
Next point:
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 08:55:43 AM
Secondly, GPB does give more control, and I have explained why that is relevant to a reasonable extent in my first post.
GPB gives more control, but that's not what makes GPB harder. You can put GPB with auto rider lean, auto clutch and auto everything so that it will give you the exact same control Ride gives you. But even at that point, GPB is a good simulator while Ride is not. And you'll see GPB will not be any easier with "less controls".
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 08:55:43 AM
Third, GP bikes is very playable, even with a keyboard, but it is not ideal. You can play with the 125cc, but for the other bikes, it's quite a problematic endeavour to game with a keyboard.
GPB is not
meant to be played with a keyboard. Would you play and FPS with a trackball or a trackpad ? It is playable, but ...
It's no big deal, but when one knows the level of detail GPB struggles to simulate (multi-body, nice tire-model, all masses and most of the rotating inertias, good stabilising control to translate input into forces and torques, ...) it hurts a bit when people thinks that Milestone's stuff can be called "simulator". If we stick to calling Ride a simulator, then it's a very bad simulator. In general and when compared to GPB.
MaX.
Oh I see the confusion, haha. I did not mean that Ride was as complex as GPB is, or that Milestone has gone through the trouble of integrating and compensating for, the many factors that constitute a true motorcycling experience. But it is well simulated. You see "well" is a subjective term, and I certainly do not mean it in a sense that would survive under scrutiny. I mean: "it's decent". As for control... That does matter a lot. You see, weight transfer and steering input are the two biggest reasons a bike will start losing stability, and Ride does not make it possible to shift weight or steer in a fashion that would easily cause wobbles, or an unstable rear-end. IN GPB you can shift your weight to the opposite side in no-time during full lean, and you'll low-side, bounce the rear too much, slide-and-save, or run into a tank-slapper. That can never happen with Ride.
OK, we're converging :)
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 09:28:47 AM
IN GPB you can shift your weight to the opposite side in no-time during full lean, and you'll low-side, bounce the rear too much, slide-and-save, or run into a tank-slapper. That can never happen with Ride.
In Ride that can never happen, that 's true. But that would not happen in Ride even if Ride allowed you to shift weight.
Low-sides, tank-slappers and other things do not happen in Ride because the physical model it uses is not good enough to make them happen: adding weight shifting ability would not change that.
That's exactly why, for me, it's a "bad" simulator, even compared to GPB (which is itself not a perfect we'd like it to be).
MaX.
Yes the reason is multivariable, and it certainly is because Milestone have not modeled their handling to be able to react that anyway. But you see, here is my point: Because Ride can not deliver that experience, it does not let you to maneuver in a fashion that would warrant such an experience. That is what I've been trying to say the whole time.
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 09:52:59 AM
Yes the reason is multivariable, and it certainly is because Milestone have not modeled their handling to be able to react that anyway. But you see, here is my point: Because Ride can not deliver that experience, it does not let you to maneuver in a fashion that would warrant such an experience. That is what I've been trying to say the whole time.
Are you say you're happy with a "simulator" that cannot low-side, high-side, tank-slap ?
MaX.
I'm saying: Despite that, Ride is fun because of the AI, the many bikes, and how every bike behaves differently and is quite similar to their real-life counter-parts in the things they share. GP bikes is the much better game, but Ride is a lot of fun without the hassle of needing a gamepad to ensure you don't keep crashing everytime you want to break your previous personal best lap-time. When I left the country to a rural one in Africa for my holiday, I had no game pad, but I had Ride and the GP bikes demo installed on my laptop. Both could be played with a keyboard, but Ride kept me the most busy. Had I had the full GP bikes game and a controller, I know I would have spent more time playing GPB then.
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 09:28:47 AMYou see, weight transfer and steering input are the two biggest reasons a bike will start losing stability
Hmmm, no. I may agree about the steering input part in some situations, but with most (if not all) bikes, weight transfer improves stability! And it's even more true on a race bike.
I guess by "weight transfer" Urban means "shifting the rider weight around" ... (and not the usual concept of weight distribution changing due to the bike/vehicle accelerating or braking).
MaX.
I did not buy RIDE as i had just been disappointed by Superbike generations. I was expecting so much....sigh....don't believe the hype
RIDE and the others are fun games for their target audience, live the dream that you are the best rider ever to take to 2 wheels.
But GPB and to an extent GP500 (GP500 now feels old after a while with GPB) that came before, after a lot of initial frustration deliver the long term satisfaction of a decent simulation. Hey, its an achievement staying upright at first but stringing together that first series of turns at speed brings a proper deserved grin ;D
It's a credit to PB that he has stuck with his principles. It would be very easy to have folded and added a 'simple handling mode' and dilute the simulation down but would this hardcore community exist without a hardcore sim ? I would be surprised if the RIDE fanbase still exists after a few more months.
my 2 cents, i love a good fun game as much as the next, but bike sims are my personal sacred territory and good ones are far too few (and i am a slow old snail really ;) )
Ride is made by Milestone - nuff said.
LOL Teeds so true.
H106 your Edtraker boxes are in the post. Thanks so much for the dosh, you got credit by me lol.
DD
Well said h106 ;)
I played the SBK titles religiously.. It was the first time online for me racing against other players.. So I really enjoyed it!
After a while u realize the games dont change, aimed at the same audience every year and it gets boring.. Started to crave more realism! Since I found GPB iv been hooked.. Breath of fresh air to see something dedicated to realism for bikes without worrying about what casual players want..
So it kind of annoys me when people compare GPB with other bike games...
GP500 should be remade too for some great middle ground.. Real data etc isnt massively important if they capture some good handling with feedback.. But, I like being onboard this hardcore project to see where it goes.. Already mega when u think about how hard it must be to stick to real stuff..
Guys like Piboso and dedicated GPB community members are a Godsend to an industry where dumbing things down has become mainstream. The driving-game genre was doomed to mediocrity until Slightly Mad studios came along (unless you think paying a fortune for iRacing isn't a bad thing), and motorcycle games have been in a bad position since the dawn of time. GP Bikes is THE ONLY true bike simulation game to date, and unless a company like Slightly Mad decide to make a Project Bikes, I don't think we'll see a mainstream true motorcycle simulation game for a long time. Even Grand Theft Auto (an unrealistic game to begin with) has taken a serious turn for the worst with GTA V.
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 01, 2015, 05:56:26 PM
The driving-game genre was doomed to mediocrity until Slightly Mad studios came along
Are you coming from a console or something? ;D First stating RIDE is a sim, and then praising SMS for reinventing the wheel (no pun intended) ::)
For your info, we simracers were spoiled more then enough with Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2, Raceroom Racing Experience, Games Stockcar Extreme and lately Dirt Rally before pCARS came along.
What SMS did with pCARS is nothing special. Yes it has dynamic weather, but that`s about the only feature it has that make it stand out from your average racing game. Yes game..i wouldn`t count pCARS as a sim like i would the likes of RF2 or AC for the same reasons i`m not calling RIDE a sim. In pCARS you can also apply full throttle mid corner on a wet track with cold tires in a RWD car with 400+ HP without any punishment whatsoever other then the car slightly understeering!
I`d rather have Kunos or ISI do a bikesim...
If Jamoz hadn't later decided to include those cartoon faces to a comment about VIDEO GAMES (after realizing the undue bigotry inherent to his post), I would have written quite the strongly-worded message, and then quit the forum. I was in the process of typing a retort before his edits appeared, and although I have ceased that effort, my decision to leave has not changed. This is the first time I've joined a forum, and will probably be the last. I was hoping for this to be a forum (unlike Youtube) where people DID NOT attribute some silly video games to their self-esteem, but that has not been the case. I do have better things to do, so...
Cheers :)
Bigotry ?! Self-esteem ?!
You come to a forum and with your 1st post you try to explain (to people with much more understanding than you on the subject) that Ride is a simulator.
Of course you get slapped for that and all is fine. But then you fumble again, on car sims and ... well, you get slapped again.
If you want to praise Ride as a simulator and receive plenty of "+1" or "Like it !", then this is probably not the right forum for you. Same goes for pCars.
Welcome to stay and voice your opinion, but you'll have to accept some critics.
MaX.
P.S.
@JamoZ: you a Dude fan too ?
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 02, 2015, 08:52:23 AM
If Jamoz hadn't later decided to include those cartoon faces to a comment about VIDEO GAMES (after realizing the undue bigotry inherent to his post), I would have written quite the strongly-worded message, and then quit the forum. I was in the process of typing a retort before his edits appeared, and although I have ceased that effort, my decision to leave has not changed. This is the first time I've joined a forum, and will probably be the last. I was hoping for this to be a forum (unlike Youtube) where people DID NOT attribute some silly video games to their self-esteem, but that has not been the case. I do have better things to do, so...
Cheers :)
As in real life there are people and people ... we do not really have to like all! I can assure you that this community is one of the best, of course begin by saying that Ride is a simulator, it was not the best move (just kidding :)) )
so if you like it go play it.. but say that ride is a simulator is just like say Miley Cyrus is a responsible girl.. come on.. in italian RIDE means LAUGH.. coincidences? ahahah
being still pretty new to the forum, i must also agree with most here that RIDE can in no way be called a sim.
i gave it a good run, for what it's worth, currently ranked no. 87 in the standings, but the fact remains that you can do some ridiculous moves that would see you on the tarmac in reality, with little or no punishment. sure - it looks nice, but the feel of riding a real bike is simply not there...
sure, the difficulty settings can be ramped up to a point that it's a bit harder than your everyday arcade racer, but a simulator...? sorry, it's just not that.
i live for decent sims, and before i discovered GPB, there were very few bike titles that could be called a sim... possibly GP500 had the best feel to a real bike, but even that starts looking a bit long in the tooth compared to GPB.
as for cars, well, i would call Richard Burns Rally, rFactor, Assetto Corsa, simulators. not much else springs to mind....
anyway, where i was going with this - Urban Chaos, c'mon mate, as others have mentioned, you can't just arrive at any forum and start by posting something that is naturally going to be opposed by the majority, and then get upset when that actually happens....
you'll be fooling yourself if you leave GPB for RIDE, is all i can say. stick it out (in the forum as well as on the track, lol) and you will eventually be rewarded when you finally start getting the hang of it. and therein lies something essential to any true simulator - that great feeling of getting it right, simply can't be replicated by any other sim-wannabe game. :)
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on July 02, 2015, 08:52:23 AM
If Jamoz hadn't later decided to include those cartoon faces to a comment about VIDEO GAMES (after realizing the undue bigotry inherent to his post), I would have written quite the strongly-worded message, and then quit the forum. I was in the process of typing a retort before his edits appeared, and although I have ceased that effort, my decision to leave has not changed. This is the first time I've joined a forum, and will probably be the last. I was hoping for this to be a forum (unlike Youtube) where people DID NOT attribute some silly video games to their self-esteem, but that has not been the case. I do have better things to do, so...
Cheers :)
Wow hold yer horses m8. Why get upset because i don`t agree with your opinion and thoughts? I`m just stating my idea`s and it was a mild post as far as i`m concerned. If stuff like this goes too far then the internet and forums might not be for you ;D
P.S @ MaX
Obviously you're not a golfer
Quote from: JamoZ on July 02, 2015, 10:42:32 AM
P.S @ MaX
Obviously you're not a golfer
Of course not, I'm a Little Urban Achiever.
I was in Edinburgh recently, there's a Lebowski pub with 40 different White Russians (including one named "The Toe").
MaX.
Man i know right, there is even a Dudeism religion and festival...
Talking about life goals here, i need to attend that festival at some point in my life ;D
*edit
You already got one of these?
(http://i2.wp.com/dudeism.com/wp-content/uploads/meme_post_type_plugin/3281/1435834400__141203511.jpg)
Now yes :) But I already have a carpet that really ties the room together.
MaX.
@urban..
How long have u had GPB for?
Id say stick with it (and us :P ) for a while and get into it.. Takes time to understand properly I think..
Iv read and seen people dismiss GPB as flawed and unrealistic basicly because they cant be bothered to learn.. (fair enough) but, I guarantee once you get to a point where you can push the bikes alot more you will be hooked :D ;D
Ride, motogp etc are fun games and you can have good online races with your pals.. GPB is a slower pace.. Pays off when you think about and apply real riding techniques (best you can with a pad etc). Instead of going flat out everywhere mashing on the brakes at willy nilly..
For instance.. Suspension! In real life its down to how you ride to get the best out of the suspension.. I get that in gpbikes too! Not in any other bike game..
Eg.. Tight corner leading to a hairpin.. If you coast around the corner then brake you will struggle to stop. Squirt the throttle on around the corner and you will be faster and brake easier because of the extra suspension travel with the weight transfer..Realistic!
Rambling on I know but I just wish people paid attention to the detail GPB has.
Of course it has its fair share of problems but that's where the word beta comes in.. All the others are full priced ''finished'' games..
I would really like to give RIDE a try. One thing that really pissed me of with Milestone games (also with wrc3) is the fact that there seems to be no community at all. You don't find a single fansite, no leages, nothing. with ride it seems the same. When googling it I only found the official site and a few reviews. In the past games like these allways seemed to be dead just after the release.
So whats your experience with RIDE? Do you have any links for me?
You might be right that RIDE isn't a real simulation, but sometimes I like games that are betweem a real sim and just a game. You can have fun with these without training. One of the first race games I really had fun with for example was DTM Race Driver (in the UK: TOCA Race Driver).
Also: "Easier games" like RIDE or the race driver series I mentioned before bring people to real sims. Sims like GP Bikes can be very frustrating for a new user especially when not having any experience with race games at all. So I think it's good for GP Bikes as well that games like RIDE exist.
Completely agree mate!
Played the superbike series on xbox for a while.. Wanted more realism.. Saw gpbikes on youtube! Bought a pc.. ;D
Milestone games on pc.. Not sure.. On xbox or ps4 though get in touch with GirlracerTracey! She organizes leagues for motogp.. All the best leaderboard topping players race in her leagues..
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 06, 2015, 09:51:24 AM
Played the superbike series on xbox for a while.. Wanted more realism.. Saw gpbikes on youtube! Bought a pc.. ;D
lol bob :)
"Once a decision is done, never explain, never apologize."
So is there any online racing / community with RIDE or is the game as dead as it seems?
Not sure man.. Think it needs fixing but milestone have moved on..
Wow, just saw that it's on steam as day-deal for 20€. From what I've read on the forums it's still too much ;)
Quote from: SKD on July 09, 2015, 06:41:18 PM
Wow, just saw that it's on steam as day-deal for 20€. From what I've read on the forums it's still too much ;)
It is, get bored very quickly ...
And don't forget when Milestone gives birth to a new game Ride will be dead.
While GP Bikes still will get updates.
Yes, Milestone is just a pain in the ass. It's the same everytime: they release new games each years, sometimes there one patch and that's it. No support no community, nothing. Doesn't mather wether it's sbk, motogp, ride, wrc... it's all the same shit.
Quote from: SKD on July 10, 2015, 11:18:49 AM
Yes, Milestone is just a pain in the ass. It's the same everytime: they release new games each years, sometimes there one patch and that's it. No support no community, nothing. Doesn't mather wether it's sbk, motogp, ride, wrc... it's all the same shit.
You forgot MXGP :)
MaX.