PiBoSo Official Forum

GP Bikes => Setups => Topic started by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 11:11:21 am

Title: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 11:11:21 am
I am really struggling with the hairpin at the bottom of Lukey heights. Whatever i try seems to lead to a fall but the rest of the circuit i can run at a reasonable pace.

What is a good line/method for navigating through this slow corner?

Help please - its driving me mad
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Napalm Nick on July 13, 2015, 11:15:49 am
Ummm..... I have some success there going slower than the corner dictates, going wider all round and making sure I don't use max lean.

V Low Front Bump helps for me too. What bike are u using?
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: JJS209 on July 13, 2015, 11:19:47 am
try not to close the throttle fully, hold it on a minimum level when in the hairpin and try not to go in full leanangle.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 11:52:56 am
Seems to agree with what i am finding by trial and error;

Very slow and try to have as much fork travel available as possible, little or no lean.

Bike does not seem to make much difference i just struggle on this particular corner. Mainly running the default 125 as i am trying to get the hang of keeping a steady line and flowing the turns together and keeping momentum which you must due to the lack of power from the 125. Maybe not the most stable bike but it takes the rest of the track in its stride (mostly  ;) ).

Having now viewed it from numerous (crash) angles i can see that it has a sort of 'bomb crater' profile on the inside line and i suspect this is causing the front suspension to bottom out. Also noticed that the tiny bit of track edge just before the exiting rumble strip (wider line) appears to be 'mined', even touching here has the bike over. Running diagonally across the apex seems the most repeatable solution so far (but crap).

Maybe i will have to park up on the grass and watch others take the corner while on the practice server, so if you notice a spectator hanging around Lukey heights later on tonight it's me  ::).  Horrible corner, just does not seem to flow as well as the rest of the track. Problem is the more i fall here the more nervously i take the corner on the next lap which is probably making it worse  >:(
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Napalm Nick on July 13, 2015, 11:58:07 am
Quote from: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 11:52:56 am
Problem is the more i fall here the more nervously i take the corner on the next lap which is probably making it worse  >:(


Ha yes totally agree that happens to me - It was really getting to me so I pushed the feeling aside and forced myself to take those corners faster and it seems to help lol
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: JJS209 on July 13, 2015, 12:00:17 pm
have you tried other bikes for example the ssp's?
i'm assuming you have the correct pressure on the tyres.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: HornetMaX on July 13, 2015, 12:06:16 pm
The default 125 is probably the worst bike to use (which is a bit of a shame as it is the only one in the demo version of GPB ...).

Get another bike, don't lean to the maximum: if you are at max lean when the slope changes suddenly, you fall.
With the 990 I go in max lean and just release it a bit at the right time and then back at max lean.

If you use manual rider lean (or override), you can try to avoid max rider lean.

MaX.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 02:00:31 pm
Quote from: JJS209 on July 13, 2015, 12:00:17 pm
have you tried other bikes for example the ssp's?
i'm assuming you have the correct pressure on the tyres.


Tried other bikes, problem still exists that i cannot find a realistic (too slow/no lean) way to tackle this corner.

No idea where to start on tire pressures, running default values.   :-[

Returned to Victoria/125 because it gave me so many problems when i started. Seem to have the other turns OK and they seem to be rideable in a realistic manner, just this one giving trouble  >:(
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Vini on July 13, 2015, 02:05:12 pm
Try the 2014 RCV.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: HornetMaX on July 13, 2015, 02:11:21 pm
Quote from: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 02:00:31 pm
Tried other bikes, problem still exists that i cannot find a realistic (too slow/no lean) way to tackle this corner.

What do you call too slow ? Maybe you're just expecting to run through too fast.
When I (and others) say "don't use max lean" it means "use a bit less than max", for sure not "no lean".

MaX.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: JJS209 on July 13, 2015, 02:27:08 pm
(http://www.gp-bikes.de/team-germany/images/pressure.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Hawk on July 13, 2015, 02:32:23 pm
On the GP125 bike, try wacking your front springs up to max or near max setting, set a pretty low bump value(approx. 3) and max rebound value. It works around the Mallory Park hairpin but not sure it will work at the  Victoria section at the bottom of the hill?  It's not what should work but it does. Bike physics really need sorting out for this sort of issue on most bikes.  ;)

Let me know how it goes.  :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 02:44:04 pm
Thanks,

I will give these suggestions a try later  :)

@Max, by slow i mean i have tried everything from walking pace upwards. Not sure it is really speed related. If the bike resets to just before the turn it will generally run through the turn OK from the restart so it seems to be related to having (some) compression in the suspension after you have been braking downhill. Tried having the bike as settled as possible on corner entry but....


Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: HornetMaX on July 13, 2015, 02:52:19 pm
Will have to give it a try with the 125 (lately I'm only using the 990, and not a lot anyway).
To me, it's just the usual issue of GPB not liking sloped/banked turns.

Easy thing to try: put manual rider lean and don't use it (i.e. leave the rider always sit in the middle). Is it any easier to take the turn ?

MaX.

Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Napalm Nick on July 13, 2015, 03:06:26 pm
Deffo worth a try of that Max-idea there.

I sometimes use Manual rider with Auto on too when I find a track with a troublesome corner, then during the turn I bring the rider a little more upright. For the rest of the lap auto does the job  ;D
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: HornetMaX on July 13, 2015, 03:10:38 pm
Quote from: Napalm Nick on July 13, 2015, 03:06:26 pm
I sometimes use Manual rider with Auto on too when I find a track with a troublesome corner, then during the turn I bring the rider a little more upright. For the rest of the lap auto does the job  ;D

So you're actually using auto rider lean with manual override (not manual rider lean, which would be something else). But yes, that's the idea :)

MaX.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Napalm Nick on July 13, 2015, 03:24:40 pm
Ya indeed

To be clearer:
I always use Auto F/R with Manual Override (for getting tucked in early).
I sometimes use Auto L/R with Manual Override (for beating pesky corners).
:)
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: davidboda46 on July 13, 2015, 04:37:27 pm
I use manual L/R lean. In banked corners leaning the rider fully usually causes the front to wash out (as Max also pointed out). I also think that most of the problems come from the current GP-bikes physics not being able to handle banked corners well. Riding around Sachsenring proves that. You can lean in the beginning and the end of the corners, but usually not at the apex. You also have to be careful around tarmac transitions. Coming out of turn 3 into 4 the camber changes and the bike becomes unstable. Hopefully these problems (and the dragging of the front when you try to pick the bike up) will be fixed in Beta 7. Basically I use the rider lean to pull the bike back coming out of corners (as it usually runs wider when you don't lean) and pulling it in towards the apex in the beginning of the corners. As for closing the throttle, that also depends on the amount of engine braking (remember that engine braking is opposite to the others when it comes to settings, the higher the value - less engine brake, lower value - more engine brake). With the Ducati Sbk I found that anything below 4 causes the bike to slide out when you close the throttle completely in corners, With 4 it becomes a bit harder to slow the bike down before cornering but easier to control in the corners, according to me at least (I mostly ride the GP12 and Ducati SBK 1199 R).

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 13, 2015, 05:53:56 pm
Over lukey heights going down into the tight right hander, stay to the left as long as possible.. Dont turn in too soon!! :) the bike sweeps around nicely..
I always get carried away.. Head for the apex going down the hill and wash out...

Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 08:00:20 pm
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 13, 2015, 05:53:56 pm
Over lukey heights going down into the tight right hander, stay to the left as long as possible.. Dont turn in too soon!! :) the bike sweeps around nicely..
I always get carried away.. Head for the apex going down the hill and wash out...


Seems to describe my experience. Is this a track issue or physics?, the 'real' line seems to be the one you would naturally try and take; the rest of the track seems pretty close to the line in the vid

https://www.youtube.com/v/yEEEGOdmqGA
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Hawk on July 13, 2015, 08:10:24 pm
Looking at the video.... The height transition from the apex of Lukey heights hairpin and the next corner look different to the Victoria track we have in GPB? Anyone else see that or is it just me?

Hawk.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 08:51:09 pm
To me the apex area seems much flatter in the vid and the camber seems less severe
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Vini on July 13, 2015, 09:11:10 pm
height difference always look a lot smaller in videos.

i pretty sure that piboso did a good job of accurately mapping victoria.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 09:26:58 pm
Well, i can get round on the R6 OK so i need to investigate more why the 125 is so nervous on this turn. I do think the vid shows the apex much flatter. In game the apex seems to have quite a distinct change in gradient.

Oh well, back to practicing....
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 13, 2015, 09:51:31 pm
I think the front end washout's is one of the most common handling issues people have playing GPB.

It confuses me tbh.. Sometimes I get on well with it, other times I crash alot.
Playing around with the setup can make things alot better and/or worse..

I have more problems on honda hairpin (i think its called?) turn 4 anyway..

And thats pretty flat lol



Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 10:08:26 pm
Not sure i believe these speeds - turn 4 55km/h compared to turn 10 120km/h in 1st gear!  :o (from Honda racing site, think its a typo and probably 20km/h  ;) )

(http://2011.hondaproracing.com/images/circuit/large/rnd16_phillip_island.jpg)
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: HornetMaX on July 14, 2015, 10:59:52 am
Quote from: h106frp on July 13, 2015, 10:08:26 pm
Not sure i believe these speeds - turn 4 55km/h compared to turn 10 120km/h in 1st gear!  :o (from Honda racing site, think its a typo and probably 20km/h  ;) )

The 55Kmh for turn 4 seems a bit low, and the 120Kmh for turn 10 a bit high, but not by much.
With the 990 for me it's more like 70 for turn 4 and 90 for turn 10, but I suspect the 90 to be a bit on the low side due to the known issue, without that I think 100/110 is doable.

MaX.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 16, 2015, 12:37:10 am
Intresting pic!

In GPB I struggle to be in the same gear as shown on some corners in the picture..

Turn 3.. Im using 5th or 6th.. 4th is far too short..

Back to victoria it is then!  ;)

EDIT: maybe not as the leaderboard times are 2/3 seconds faster than real life..

Be good for a realism/comparison video though to match the gearing.

Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Hawk on July 16, 2015, 11:14:26 am
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 16, 2015, 12:37:10 am
Intresting pic!

In GPB I struggle to be in the same gear as shown on some corners in the picture..

Turn 3.. Im using 5th or 6th.. 4th is far too short..

Back to victoria it is then!  ;)

EDIT: maybe not as the leaderboard times are 2/3 seconds faster than real life..

Be good for a realism/comparison video though to match the gearing.


I think you'll find that is about same for all fastest rider times on GPB tracks? Maybe because real-life riders value their lives more than a virtual rider who knows they can crash and respawn at any time without any pain!?? Hehe.  ;D

Which is why I tend to side with if you crash in a race then your out of the race in GPB events... Would make riders in GPB think twice about pushing their limits to the edge all the time.  :P ;D

Hawk
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: HornetMaX on July 16, 2015, 03:53:21 pm
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 16, 2015, 12:37:10 am
EDIT: maybe not as the leaderboard times are 2/3 seconds faster than real life..


Matching lap times exactly is very hard, too many factors.

But which bike and lap times are you comparing ? The 990 (default one) is supposed to be a 2003 bike.

MaX.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 16, 2015, 05:24:08 pm
All true  :) I guess its close enough.. 2/3 seconds not bad.

Hawk.. Man you are hardcore lol.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Hawk on July 16, 2015, 05:58:37 pm
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 16, 2015, 05:24:08 pm
All true  :) I guess its close enough.. 2/3 seconds not bad.

Hawk.. Man you are hardcore lol.


Lol.... I never thought of myself as hardcore, but maybe in this instance I am. Hehe

Though it would be very interesting to see the difference in lap times if this was so. Would love to see it in as an optional selection for races so we can test it out. ;D

Hawk.
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Ryanoh4 on September 26, 2015, 11:22:12 pm
My PB on the demo of gp bikes at victoria is 1'36.436 heres some tips, turn 2 is crazy bumpy at the exit so dont keep full lean there, turn 3 is flat while turn 4 is full lean and full throttle at exit, turn 5 is bumpy at the apex so barely knee down all the way round it, flat until the dreaded lukey heights, for me get your braking and position set up before the apex and then don't go in at full lean or you will lose the front, try and cut the hairpin rather than keep a curve if that makes sense :) the final turn is very scary now in beta6c so be careful with your lean angle at the middle of the corner, i will post my setup soon :) does anyone no how to post a video thats 68 mbs on here?
Title: Re: Victoria - Lukey heights and hairpin - Help please
Post by: Napalm Nick on September 27, 2015, 08:57:05 am
You have to upload to a 3rd party video site (for example YouTube) then link to it here.
The correct way to link a video is explained in the forum tips section. Hope that helps.