Please Piboso can you fix the DST steering bug:
When in the pits and you put the bike into 1st gear, the steering turns full to the left and you cannot bring it back into centre. This makes it almost impossible to get going right now. :(
Please fix for beta 8 as I really want to give DST riding a good go. Thank you. :) 8)
Hawk.
Wasn't this solved in beta7 ?I think I recall Klax saying that it was bad in beta6 but OK in beta7.
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 05, 2015, 12:59:27 PM
Wasn't this solved in beta7 ?I think I recall Klax saying that it was bad in beta6 but OK in beta7.
Well I put DST on and when I spawned in the pits and put the bike into 1st gear the handlebars turn full to the left and you cannot centre them to get moving. Give it a try Max and you'll see what I mean. Just for ref: I did calibrate my Xbox 360 controller before giving it a try. ;)
I can't remember Klax saying that for beta 7(In fact I can't remember hearing from Klax in ages now), but I'm sure he did post something about that for beta 6 fixed from beta 5 but then it appeared again in the later betas. I'm sure that's what happened, because when me and Klax were practicing in Beta 6c it was a problem and the reason I dropped riding with DST.
I honestly would've thought Piboso would've fixed it by now but unfortunately not it seems. But as I say Max, give it a try and you'll see what I mean. :)
Hawk.
Could be. Try DSA instead, you won't have that problem.
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 05, 2015, 01:54:42 PM
Could be. Try DSA instead, you won't have that problem.
I'll give DSA a test. But I'd rather ride DST(Reasons here in Klax's DST Thread : http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1125.msg13262 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1125.msg13262) ).
Did you give DST a test Max to see what I'm talking about here? Maybe you could confirm? ;)
Hawk.
I can confirm that this bug is not present when using DSA.
So this bug is only present when using DST.
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on December 05, 2015, 05:13:52 PM
So this bug is only present when using DST.
Technically it's not a bug. DST means that you decide the torque to apply with your stick (not the position, so stick in the middle doesn't mean handlebars in the middle, that's DSA).
Let's imagine there's no friction between the tyre and the track: bike standing, bars fully left, you should apply a little torque right for a short time to get the bars moving right, then put the stick to middle (zero torque). At this point the bars will be rotating with constant angular speed to the right. When the bars are almost centred you'll have to apply a tiny torque left for a short time , to "brake" the bars and stop them in the middle.
Using DSA, the virtual rider does that for you: you tell him to keep the bars in the middle he does what's needed to do that.
To be honest, the way the bars swing left/right with DST when the bike is stopped is suspect. It's as if there's no tyre/track friction when the bike is stopped and hence even a tiny torque sends the bars fully left/right with little chances of being able to stop them in the middle and hold them there. One thing you can try is to lower the value of "directsteer_maxtorque" and raise "directsteer_maxtorque2". But if there's no friction when the bike is not moving, then that won't help.
Side note: latest posts from Klax75 on the subject:
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1429.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1429.0)
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1514.msg21222 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1514.msg21222)
So I guess the problem was (and is) still there and I've been daydreaming :)
Just tried DST again: weird, before shifting to 1st gear, the stick controls the steering angle. As soon as you shift into 1st, the steering goes to full right and you're doomed.
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 05, 2015, 11:16:45 PM
Just tried DST again: weird, before shifting to 1st gear, the stick controls the steering angle. As soon as you shift into 1st, the steering goes to full right and you're doomed.
You got it! That's the DST bug(if it is a bug?) I'm talking about. ;)
In the meantime I've been doing some practice(ITA GP125) with DSA and all seems to work fine. V/Hard to re-wire the control movements for my old brain though. Lol ;D
Here is the DSA settings I find are easiest to control DSA with:
[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=16
Until I put the above settings in, I found I was overcompensating for the lean angle movements. I find these settings a lot easier to hold the lean angle through a corner too.
Thanks Max. ;)
Hawk.
PS: I also think using manual rider movement is essential when using DSA or presumably with DST too. Forward and back rider movements make big differences to corner handling on corner entries and exits(back for entry and forward for exit I found best). Also using the left right rider movements to smoothly enter corners as those movements actually gently lean the bike into corners without any handlebar inputs.
Quote from: Hawk on December 05, 2015, 11:47:06 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 05, 2015, 11:16:45 PM
Just tried DST again: weird, before shifting to 1st gear, the stick controls the steering angle. As soon as you shift into 1st, the steering goes to full right and you're doomed.
You got it! That's the DST bug(if it is a bug?) I'm talking about. ;)
What happens in neutral (stick controls the steering angle, just like DSA) may make sense, e.g. when you need to walk the bike.
What happens after is weird indeed: in the past it was different, moving the stick left/right (even only slightly) was sending the steering full left/right with no chance to put it in the middle.
Now it seems that once you get into 1st, it goes fully right and it stays there no matter what you do with the stick. Which is indeed bug territory ...
Quote from: Hawk on December 05, 2015, 11:47:06 PM
Until I put the above settings in, I found I was overcompensating for the lean angle movements. I find these settings a lot easier to hold the lean angle through a corner too.
Careful though: your max steering will be 16 degrees, much less that what the bike can do (20 something typically). This won't matter most of the time on the track but it will when walking the bike and, hear that, when wheeling :)
Quote from: Hawk on December 05, 2015, 11:47:06 PM
PS: I also think using manual rider movement is essential when using DSA or presumably with DST too. Forward and back rider movements make big differences to corner handling on corner entries and exits(back for entry and forward for exit I found best). Also using the left right rider movements to smoothly enter corners as those movements actually gently lean the bike into corners without any handlebar inputs.
With DST/DSA you have no choice, you have to have manual rider lean, there's no auto rider lean (even if in the settings it seems there is). With DST/DSA if you don't lean the rider, it will stay "in the middle".
I would have thought the steering is modeled after the real physics with the gyroscopic forces, masses, lean angles, rake, castor etc producing the correct effects on the steering and rider with the wheel on or off the deck. Is this not the case?
Quote from: h106frp on December 06, 2015, 12:37:42 PM
I would have thought the steering is modeled after the real physics with the gyroscopic forces, masses, lean angles, rake, castor etc producing the correct effects on the steering and rider with the wheel on or off the deck. Is this not the case?
It is, there just seems to be some strange thing going on in special situations (bike stopped, wheeline, ...).
Hi All,
:) Been a long time.
In previous betas when using DST the handle bars would flop to one side or another as soon as you spawned. Which made putting the bike on the grid very difficult. Since you had to go right, left, right, left while walking the bike. I asked Piboso if he could do something about it. Now if you don't have the bike in gear, the virtual rider would "take control" of the handlebars, so you can walk the bike, and get in position. Once you put in any gear it will put the steering back to DST. Which with practice you can put it in gear and start moving long before the handle bars fall to either side. It's 1000% better then it use to be. Then it would always be to one side and had to fight with it to keep it straight until you got enough speed from them to straighten out.
It's only the smaller bikes you may have trouble getting going since they don't have the power, but for those rev the engine then put it in gear and keep the revs high to get some speed do it right and the handle bars won't have time to flop to one side.
P.S. Sorry haven't been around trying to sort out some medical things. Plus I haven't finished watching MotoGP 15 season or WSBK 15 seasons yet, and coming here people would be talking about it and don't want it ruined before I am finished watching. :) But I am still here.
Quote from: Klax75 on December 06, 2015, 03:54:33 PM
Hi All,
:) Been a long time.
In previous betas when using DST the handle bars would flop to one side or another as soon as you spawned. Which made putting the bike on the grid very difficult. Since you had to go right, left, right, left while walking the bike. I asked Piboso if he could do something about it. Now if you don't have the bike in gear, the virtual rider would "take control" of the handlebars, so you can walk the bike, and get in position. Once you put in any gear it will put the steering back to DST. Which with practice you can put it in gear and start moving long before the handle bars fall to either side. It's 1000% better then it use to be. Then it would always be to one side and had to fight with it to keep it straight until you got enough speed from them to straighten out.
It's only the smaller bikes you may have trouble getting going since they don't have the power, but for those rev the engine then put it in gear and keep the revs high to get some speed do it right and the handle bars won't have time to flop to one side.
P.S. Sorry haven't been around trying to sort out some medical things. Plus I haven't finished watching MotoGP 15 season or WSBK 15 seasons yet, and coming here people would be talking about it and don't want it ruined before I am finished watching. :) But I am still here.
Hey Klax! Nice to see you back here! Welcome back Boss! ;D ;D 8)
What we want is to be able to put the bike into gear without the handlebars moving full right and then not be able to centre them again to get a nice start-off. At the moment it's impossible to start straight without having to hop from left to right and if your lucky to actually get started without crashing, as you say, especially on the slower bikes like the 125cc machines(which I'm practicing with now on). I cannot imagine on a start grid, other riders being very pleased with the left to right steering antics with DST before you get going into a straight line off the grid.... It's just very awkward as it is right now..... The thing is, can it be sorted? Or is this a bug?
Till this is sorted out I'm using DSA, but would rather use DST.
Hawk.
I just learned if I am sitting on the bike, I don't have it in gear until I want to start moving. Even then the handle bars won't go to one side because as soon as I put it in gear I begin to move. I'll try to make a video of it and post.
If you put it in gear, then wait even a second or two the handle bars will move. If you put it back to neutral if will recenter. So my advice is don't bring a gun to a gun fight unless you're willing to use it, and don't put your bike in gear until your ready to move. ;)
Quote from: Klax75 on December 06, 2015, 04:33:23 PM
I just learned if I am sitting on the bike, I don't have it in gear until I want to start moving. Even then the handle bars won't go to one side because as soon as I put it in gear I begin to move. I'll try to make a video of it and post.
If you put it in gear, then wait even a second or two the handle bars will move. If you put it back to neutral if will re-centre. So my advice is don't bring a gun to a gun fight unless you're willing to use it, and don't put your big in gear until your ready to move. ;)
A video would be appreciated mate.... Any help to get going using DST without having to hop left/right..... I can see why you used to prefer to start at the back of the grid now. ;D
Hawk.
Great to have you back Klax !
But there's no good reason to be unable to move the steering when the bike is still stopped and gear is in. Especially using DST: as there's no virtual rider in the middle, if one commands a torque, a torque should go through. It doesn't.
P.S.
Crutchlow is MotoGP Champion 2015 :)
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 06, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
P.S.
Crutchlow is MotoGP Champion 2015 :)
What What!?? Have you gone "Mad Max"(No pun intended. Hehe) ;D
Hawk.
Quote from: Hawk on December 06, 2015, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 06, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
P.S.
Crutchlow is MotoGP Champion 2015 :)
What What!?? Have you gone "Mad Max"(No pun intended. Hehe) ;D
Klax75 said he still has to catch up the season so I din't want to tell him that Hayden actually won and spoil the surprise for him :)
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 06, 2015, 09:18:57 PM
Quote from: Hawk on December 06, 2015, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 06, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
P.S.
Crutchlow is MotoGP Champion 2015 :)
What What!?? Have you gone "Mad Max"(No pun intended. Hehe) ;D
Klax75 said he still has to catch up the season so I din't want to tell him that Hayden actually won and spoil the surprise for him :)
OH! I see. Haha! ;D
But don't tell him a Yanky actually won or we'll never get rid of him! Plus I don't want him showing off his Hayden fanboy goatee beard again. Hehe. ;D
Hawk.
DST Steering Test Beta7
http://www.youtube.com/v/0GG0vRHtnHw
Showing how I start with DST, and how I walk the bike. Walking the bike the controls will behave normally if in neutral. Once in gear the virtual rider is shut off. Which is a lot better then what it was before. Before the virtual rider was always off, so it made walking the bike, and starting from a stop super hard. Since he handle bars would be at a angle. If you look in gear the marks on MaxHUD show I am moving the sticks opposite of what they are doing. Once I get up to speed, I can steer normally.
I'll make another view showing what the sticks are doing when in a high angle turn.
Just to be sure: are the two blue dots in the Joypad widget (bottom right) showing the movements of your joypad sticks ?
And can you confirm you use the left stick (horizontal) for steering (torque, as you're in DST) and the right stick (horizontal) for rider lean left/right ?
It seems that when you are in gear (1st) you can move the steering (0m26s-33s in the video). That was what I would expect, but I cannot do the same: for me as soon as the 1st gear goes in, steer flops to right and then I can't move it.
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 07, 2015, 11:14:28 AM
Just to be sure: are the two blue dots in the Joypad widget (bottom right) showing the movements of your joypad sticks ?
And can you confirm you use the left stick (horizontal) for steering (torque, as you're in DST) and the right stick (horizontal) for rider lean left/right ?
It seems that when you are in gear (1st) you can move the steering (0m26s-33s in the video). That was what I would expect, but I cannot do the same: for me as soon as the 1st gear goes in, steer flops to right and then I can't move it.
Yes the left stick is for steering, left and right, moving the stick up is clutch, down is rear brake. I was using auto clutch so I wouldn't stall the bike. The right stick is for rider movement forward and back, left and right.
With DST if I put it in gear the handle bars will turn to one side, if I move the left stick in opposite direction the handle bars will turn to the other side. But keeping the handle bars straight when not moving is virtually impossible when the bike is in gear. Once the bike starts moving they will center up. Then I can steer left and right, pushing the stick left and right. Just during a high angle tum I'll have to counter steer the opposite direction.
The biggest thing I've noticed over the year or two with DST, is when turning. (Besides counter steering) When going in to a turn I turn, then easy up on the left stick so it goes back to center, not all the way, and move my riders body to the direction I want to turn. Once I get the lean angle the bike will stay if it doesn't low slide out. Then I am using the riders weight to help in the turn, and have to counter steer if needed.
Where as default steering if you go left you're constantly pushing in my case the left stick left, until you're done with the turn.
Quote from: Klax75 on December 08, 2015, 07:27:11 AM
With DST if I put it in gear the handle bars will turn to one side, if I move the left stick in opposite direction the handle bars will turn to the other side.
Strange, it's not what I see (and Hawk neither it seems). I'll try again tonight.
@Hawk: can you try the same ? Also do a video like Klax75: DST, bike standing, maxHUD (Joypad) ON, neutral gear move stick left/right, then put into 1st (clutch disenagaged) and move stick left/right.
Quote from: Klax75 on December 08, 2015, 07:27:11 AM
But keeping the handle bars straight when not moving is virtually impossible when the bike is in gear.
Yeah, that's what I recalled from what you told me. It should be a bit hard, but not impossible. If you put a very low scale (low directsteer_maxtorque), then you should be able to apply a small torque, see the bars moving slowly from left to right and then apply a small torque in the other direction to stop the bars where you want. This doesn't seem to happen (from what you say, as for me I cannot even move the bars once they are fully left or right, which is even more weird).
Quote from: Klax75 on December 08, 2015, 07:27:11 AM
The biggest thing I've noticed over the year or two with DST, is when turning. (Besides counter steering) When going in to a turn I turn, then easy up on the left stick so it goes back to center, not all the way, and move my riders body to the direction I want to turn. Once I get the lean angle the bike will stay if it doesn't low slide out. Then I am using the riders weight to help in the turn, and have to counter steer if needed.
Where as default steering if you go left you're constantly pushing in my case the left stick left, until you're done with the turn.
All the above is totally normal, it's exactly how it should work, both in DST and non-DST cases.
Quote from: HornetMaX on December 08, 2015, 07:58:17 AM
@Hawk: can you try the same ? Also do a video like Klax75: DST, bike standing, maxHUD (Joypad) ON, neutral gear move stick left/right, then put into 1st (clutch disenagaged) and move stick left/right.
I'll try and do a video but v/busy so cannot guarantee today. ;)
Hawk.
Holy shit, it doesn't work for me.So I've set DST:
[hardcore]
directsteer=1
directsteer_maxtorque=30
directsteer_maxtorque2=0.5But in game, bike standing in the pit:
- if I'm in neutral I have the same steering behaviour as Klax75 (i.e. stick input controls steering angle)
- as soon as I get in gear, steering flops to the right and I can't move it any longer
If I manage to start the bike, DST is indeed in place.
:o :o :o
https://www.youtube.com/v/p6CHxPwhsQw
its maybe because we have windows wista 7
brother have XP and he no have that bug