Announcement at 1pm EDT tomorrow.
I'm like 90% sure.
Source?
Removed iRacing forum post.
A post from an iRacing employee?
Sorry for my french but who gives a fuck, if it aint from Piboso it sucks!!!
I hate the iRacing concept as well so screw them
DD
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 12, 2016, 09:10:48 PM
A post from an iRacing employee?
Sort of. After the post was removed el presidente wrote a post asking to not ruin the fun.
This source tells a different story:
https://pretendracecars.net/2016/09/12/the-audi-90-quattro-imsa-gto-is-coming-to-iracing/ (https://pretendracecars.net/2016/09/12/the-audi-90-quattro-imsa-gto-is-coming-to-iracing/)
They're probably right then. I said I was only 90% sure. I was at work while doing this investagtive reporting, so it was apparently shit. Now that I've ruined your day I hope this news brightens it.
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 12, 2016, 11:04:01 PM
They're probably right then. I said I was only 90% sure. I was at work while doing this investagtive reporting, so it was apparently shit. Now that I've ruined your day I hope this news brightens it.
It does brighten the day indeed :)
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 12, 2016, 11:05:03 PM
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 12, 2016, 11:04:01 PM
They're probably right then. I said I was only 90% sure. I was at work while doing this investagtive reporting, so it was apparently shit. Now that I've ruined your day I hope this news brightens it.
It does brighten the day indeed :)
But it does not change the underlying constellation - it can happen anytime. Damocles' sword is hanging. Please do not get me wrong, I am aware of the reasons you delay your v1 release. But you need to establish KRP asap.
My advice is to bring out KRP to Steam asap! If you do it without dynamic track features even online play should be rather stable. Release the dynamic track feature later, as soon as netcode is sorted. That way you'd have the foot in the segment and your sim would be the benchmark in the business. Do it mate!
+1 stout.
People more often buy in to a stable beta with a good dev plan knowing the interesting stuff is coming, rather than an unstable beta with lots of cool features but bugs and bad feedback.. And all it takes to down a beta is one bad bug.
I disagree about the dynamic track stuff. It is what sets the game apart and is 100% necessary. But I agree that all other projects should be put on hold to get KRP out on steam ASAP.
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 13, 2016, 01:10:12 PM
I disagree about the dynamic track stuff. It is what sets the game apart and is 100% necessary.
+1
Ok it can be a pain for the online stuff.. but as a simulation, running laps enjoying it.. its too good to leave out.
Stuff like this (and deformation in mxb) is all well and good for people like us, who are happy to seek out and put up with buggy betas in development stage, but maybe not for people coming across it on steam.
look at mxb. Very small number of active forum users, nobody online, huge audience out there. People are aware of it but most haven't even tried it as it's plagued with online issues and the physics are still in the works. If it was to be released on steam it would be expected to be of a higher quality.
The good news is that KRP is already much better and more polished. Just needs less core crashes. Stop all other development until you can sort that and get one solid game out. And it fixes the issue across all platforms presumably.
That's my uneducated opinion.
Might be a dumb question to ask, but I got myself a copy of Automobilista because, well, stadium super trucks. :D Anyway, there is a few different types of vehicle and I noticed karts, started messing with them (re-adjusted the G27 to suit such a vehicle) and kind of enjoyed it, for the first time, actually feel like I enjoy kart racing!
Here is why the question I want to ask feels stupid, is it at all comparable to the learning curve of KRP? I've honestly avoided buying KRP due to the fact that if I did, it would likely just be supporting Piboso more than actually buying it to enjoy it, and a spare chunk of money usually ends up in my motorcycles before I spend it on gaming unless it's truly a title I can't live without (Stadium Super Trucks was one of those "gotta have it" things). Is KRP anything like Automobilista? Better? (probably... but more "so" in terms of kart racing?)
Part of why I ask is also due to the fact my neighbor here in the city has become a pretty good friend of mine, but, he's in his late 50's and raced both auto clutch and shifter karts back in the 80's and 90's, locally of course, nobody special, but he speaks with great admiration about the folks that are really dedicated to it and seems to wish at times he could get back into it without all the cost and such.... (we are both mechanics and motorsport enthusiasts, so most of our time is spent hanging out in the shop, he hasn't quite seen what I do in the sim world) I happen to have a pretty impressive setup here at my place for sim racing, and think that one of these days, if I have a good kart sim on hand, I would offer this kind older gentleman the opportunity to hang out for an afternoon and turn some laps in a discipline he is quite fond of in motorsport, but, since I don't have a ton of experience in the form of karts or anything like it outside of sim racing, I'm curious more than anything what would deliver the most real world feel to someone who has never, ever touched a sim, but has been into the discipline in real life.
Fast laps in a tin top front wheel drive was something I brought into my first foray with a wheel on Live For Speed, and within a years time I was ranking top 10 in the world on hot lap charts, those days are far gone, but the skill learned in real life transferred directly into a really good sim, I assume for my friend, it may be the same way if the simulator is as accurate as possible.
Sorry for the OT here, just figure I would ask without starting up a totally different thread as I'm sure this off topic section post will either go unnoticed by the masses or completely disappear eventually anyway. ;)
offtopic@Grimm:
Automobilista is a good sim imo. I regularly do laps in Automobilista, but haven't spent too much time with the karts. For the few minutes I have tested Karts in Automobilista, I can say that I liked it, but I do feel that the feeling of driving a real kart is much better conveyed in KRP. But KRP definitely has a learning curve though. Which probably is an argument for being a good sim. Also, it is essential to have the steering configured correctly.
ontopic:
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 13, 2016, 01:10:12 PM
I disagree about the dynamic track stuff. It is what sets the game apart and is 100% necessary.
I know what you mean. That dynamic track stuff definitely is a jewel. Do not get me wrong, it should def be in the sims and will really help Piboso's sims to stand out. BUT what I mean is, that business-wise it is just THE MOST important thing to establish the product on the market asap. There is not (not yet) a serious competitor on the market, but very likely to come rather soon (KK, maybe iracing?). And KRP is very advanced and only really lacks the online stability. And whenever this might eventually be sorted is very uncertain.
But it has been proven that without dynamic track surface Piboso's netcode is already rather stable and allows for online racing. So it would make much sense to release KRP without dynamic track feature online (it could be there for offline mode to showcase that it is already working). Piboso could establish KRP as THE best kart sim and generate some revenue. It would also help to not let his competitors become as big in the market. KK will most likely not be on par with KRP in terms of physics. But if Piboso allows KK to be the first kart sim in the market, then all this initial revenue will go to the devs of KK who in turn can use that profit to make KK better, even in terms of physics. Either way, it will hurt KRP (and consequently all other projects).
KRP needs to be out there asap, there is no way around it - everything else is playing russian roulette from a business stand-point.
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 13, 2016, 07:43:20 PM
Stop all other development until you can sort that and get one solid game out. And it fixes the issue across all platforms presumably.
+1
+1 Stout.... Agree with all you say there above mate. ;)
Hawk.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 14, 2016, 11:01:39 AM
offtopic@Grimm:
Automobilista is a good sim imo. I regularly do laps in Automobilista, but haven't spent too much time with the karts. For the few minutes I have tested Karts in Automobilista, I can say that I liked it, but I do feel that the feeling of driving a real kart is much better conveyed in KRP. But KRP definitely has a learning curve though. Which probably is an argument for being a good sim. Also, it is essential to have the steering configured correctly.
ontopic:
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 13, 2016, 01:10:12 PM
I disagree about the dynamic track stuff. It is what sets the game apart and is 100% necessary.
I know what you mean. That dynamic track stuff definitely is a jewel. Do not get me wrong, it should def be in the sims and will really help Piboso's sims to stand out. BUT what I mean is, that business-wise it is just THE MOST important thing to establish the product on the market asap. There is not (not yet) a serious competitor on the market, but very likely to come rather soon (KK, maybe iracing?). And KRP is very advanced and only really lacks the online stability. And whenever this might eventually be sorted is very uncertain.
But it has been proven that without dynamic track surface Piboso's netcode is already rather stable and allows for online racing. So it would make much sense to release KRP without dynamic track feature online (it could be there for offline mode to showcase that it is already working). Piboso could establish KRP as THE best kart sim and generate some revenue. It would also help to not let his competitors become as big in the market. KK will most likely not be on par with KRP in terms of physics. But if Piboso allows KK to be the first kart sim in the market, then all this initial revenue will go to the devs of KK who in turn can use that profit to make KK better, even in terms of physics. Either way, it will hurt KRP (and consequently all other projects).
KRP needs to be out there asap, there is no way around it - everything else is playing russian roulette from a business stand-point.
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 13, 2016, 07:43:20 PM
Stop all other development until you can sort that and get one solid game out. And it fixes the issue across all platforms presumably.
+1
Look, no I know either PiBoSo will delete my comment, or I will have my head ripped off.
But I am a beta tester for KartKraft, and I can confirm that KartKrafts physics are basically at this point better than KRP in most situations, the only thing really off about KK at the moment is that fact that it has the fixed setup and the kart does have initial turn in understeer which does make the game feel sluggish in some points, but still when you get to certain corners that lets say "suits" the setup, the kart feels perfect.
I know I am going to get mobbed for saying that, but this is a public discussion where all opinions should be welcome so yeah.
Cory.
If you indeed are a beta tester and this is your opinion, so be it. I bet if there are others who would have the possibility to directly compare, there would be a reasonable share to vote for KRP feeling more realistic. It does not really matter in the question on when Piboso should release his sim. He needs to get his sim out asap either way.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/CoryHayesAU
^^^^^^
Just to prove I have access to KK
Quote from: Cory_Hayes.11 on September 14, 2016, 12:31:58 PM
Look, no I know either PiBoSo will delete my comment, or I will have my head ripped off.
I see no valid reason for either to happen. And I think none of them will actually happen.
@Cory_Hayes.11: As a KK beta tester, I presume you have real experience in Kart Racing?
Hawk.
Even with a few replies it pretty much settles it, I'll grab a copy of KRP and get a good wheel setup (pretty sure people have discussed that plenty on the KRP forum too) and spend some time with it. After posting yesterday it dawned on me KRP has dynamic surface, tear offs, and rain! Pretty much a done deal at those three features alone, and if I can get around a track on Automobilista with a shifter kart without feeling like I'm doing weird things to make it happen (kart racing in the sim world always felt way too "on edge" compared to what real life video's look like where there is room for correction) and if KRP has a better feel to it with far more focus and features, I'm totally in for a copy of it. ;D
The preview video's I've seen around for Kart Kraft looked good, but, I'm really not dedicated to one form or another of sim racing so it stands to reason that picking a sim with the most features and development still going forward would be the ideal route to go at the moment (especially if it's a decently accurate representation of that form of racing). If I do get more into it though, just like motorcycle sims/games, I'll likely pick up all the titles I can get my hands on though, just needed a jump off point and Automobilista really jump started that when I was running Super Kart (wtf is in those things? Nuclear reactors for engines? lol) and having a blast trying to beat the AI through 4 laps at 110% difficulty and full aggression, from midfield, on a fast rolling start. :P
Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 14, 2016, 12:50:10 PM
If you indeed are a beta tester and this is your opinion, so be it. I bet if there are others who would have the possibility to directly compare, there would be a reasonable share to vote for KRP feeling more realistic.
Cory is just a KK fanboy, that for some unknown reason has decided to keep pestering my forums with his annoying presence.
I received messages from several persons I trust, real kart racers, that tried the KK beta and labelled it as bad arcade. Not that it was necessary, really. The leaked videos ( that Zach understandably hurried to have taken down immediately ) speak for themselves about the "physics".
This doesn't mean that KK is not a huge threat to KRP, though. Because sadly, as pCars and AC have shown, most persons ( even self-proclaimed simmers ) prefer shiny graphics and AI to accurate simulation.
However, stopping all other projects to focus on KRP only is not an option. For two main reasons: 1) working on other projects gives a lot of ideas for KRP, like WRS dampers' tuning helped with tuning of the kart chassis flex, or work on tyre-soil interaction should help with the 3D kerbs problem 2) it wouldn't be correct towards the GPB, WRS and MXB users.
Releasing KRP on Steam before KK will not change much anyway... BlackDelta is packed with money and is a marketing powerhouse.
A final thought: in the long-term, the real money-maker is going to be MX Bikes, by far :)
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2016, 02:45:04 PM
A final thought: in the long-term, the real money-maker is going to be MX Bikes, by far :)
Minor consolation: at least it's bikes :)
@Hawk
Started in 2004, currently still racing.
@PiBoSo
Put my "fan boy" opinion aside, and think of my comments here as an opinion like any other member, you don't really think I would literally jump into a bigger pond ( this forum ) purely trying to bash you, knowing that if I were to try harass you that I would have plenty people trying to roast me, right?
You do talk about what the physics look like via video, that is basically the same as judging a book by its cover, you would actually have to try the game for yourself to truly have a valid opinion, I could imagine who the people are that you have talked to about KartKraft and them having an opinion that views the game as a bad arcade or something along those lines, but if you asked around you will find that a lot more people would find the game good/real, not trying to put myself in the position of "I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG" but I personally on the closed sections of the KK forum have seen more position reviews of the game than negative, again, down to opinion of the game, no ones opinion is wrong.
Quote from: Cory_Hayes.11 on September 14, 2016, 03:50:24 PM
You do talk about what the physics look like via video, that is basically the same as judging a book by its cover, you would actually have to try the game for yourself to truly have a valid opinion, I could imagine who the people are that you have talked to about KartKraft and them having an opinion that views the game as a bad arcade or something along those lines, but if you asked around you will find that a lot more people would find the game good/real, not trying to put myself in the position of "I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG" but I personally on the closed sections of the KK forum have seen more position reviews of the game than negative, again, down to opinion of the game, no ones opinion is wrong.
In this case, the equivalent of judging a book by its cover would be to judge the physics by screenshots. Videos can tell a lot more, especially if the handling is so arcade.
Anyway, what really count are the opinions of real kart racers, even persons that were eagerly awaiting KK and publicly posted about how it would have destroyed KRP... Several of them wrote me how they changed mind and to congratulate my work ( unfortunately only in private... :) ).
P.S.
Some opinions are wrong... For example, I could have the opinion that the Moon is made of cheese, but that would be WRONG :P
PiBoSo, you want access to my steam account to try out the KK beta?
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 14, 2016, 04:44:13 PM
PiBoSo, you want access to my steam account to try out the KK beta?
Thank you very much for the offer, but I think this would be a breach of the NDA.
Also, I never try other sims ( or wannabe sims :P ). I only use my own to test new features and bug fixes, and wait for users' feedback and suggestions :)
Like i said elsewhere in this forum, KK is far off of how karts actually handle (yes i have 125cc shifter experience). People who think otherwise are probably the same ones who think pCARS is a real simulation....oh wait ::)
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2016, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: Cory_Hayes.11 on September 14, 2016, 03:50:24 PM
You do talk about what the physics look like via video, that is basically the same as judging a book by its cover, you would actually have to try the game for yourself to truly have a valid opinion, I could imagine who the people are that you have talked to about KartKraft and them having an opinion that views the game as a bad arcade or something along those lines, but if you asked around you will find that a lot more people would find the game good/real, not trying to put myself in the position of "I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG" but I personally on the closed sections of the KK forum have seen more position reviews of the game than negative, again, down to opinion of the game, no ones opinion is wrong.
P.S.
Some opinions are wrong... For example, I could have the opinion that the Moon is made of cheese, but that would be WRONG :P
That opinion is wrong because it is about something that is fact, it is a fact the moon is not cheese opinions cant ever be wrong when it comes to something that is objective like enjoyment of a game
KRP seems realistic to me.. classy little sim, especially with the lotus karts, dynamic tracks and all the kart setup options. Struggling with my wheel settings though... i would play more with some good settings. i cant get my steering ''stiff'' enough.. ??
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2016, 02:45:04 PM
[...]This doesn't mean that KK is not a huge threat to KRP, though. Because sadly, as pCars and AC have shown, most persons ( even self-proclaimed simmers ) prefer shiny graphics and AI to accurate simulation.
However, stopping all other projects to focus on KRP only is not an option. For two main reasons: 1) working on other projects gives a lot of ideas for KRP, like WRS dampers' tuning helped with tuning of the kart chassis flex, or work on tyre-soil interaction should help with the 3D kerbs problem 2) it wouldn't be correct towards the GPB, WRS and MXB users.
Releasing KRP on Steam before KK will not change much anyway... BlackDelta is packed with money and is a marketing powerhouse.
A final thought: in the long-term, the real money-maker is going to be MX Bikes, by far :)
Thank you for elaborating on that and giving some inside thoughts. I agree with what you are saying: development in one project does also help in the development of other projects. But I do not not see why that should speak against releasing KRP.
1) Even after releasing the sim, there will still always be development. There will never really be a 'final version'. So findings in one project will still contribute the other sims as well.
2) I do not really see why it would be unfair towards GPB, WRS and MXB users. In fact, I think it is the other way around. Releasing one of your projects would take some pressure off of your shoulders as there finally would be one game out. KRP users would be happy to have a let's call it v0.9 and you'd have time to intensify work on MXB.
Also, it does not matter whether BlackDelta is a money and marketing giant. I have said it time and time before: What really counts is,
who is on the market first. Just imagine yourself buying a toothbrush that is first on the market. Why should you afterwards switch to a different toothbrush if you are happy with the one you are used to? Some few might switch if they see a feature they prefer, but the majority won't change. And those are the ones you definitely lose if you enter the market late. And with a sim that relies on online-racing you definitely need a big community, because otherwise racing does not make sense.
Also, if KK sucks, then it just simply sucks. Even a company with much money behind won't burn its money on a title that just does not sell. And my bet is, it won't sell very good if a superior sim is already established among the kart-sim community. That needs to be KRP.
I know I can only do so much as to present the arguments and hope they speak for themselves. I am pretty sure it would be prudent and farseeing to release KRP now. But in the end it is you who decides on your release schedule. My take on this is , that you seem to be standing on jewels, but you are not digging them out. If you are not doing it soon, someone might come and take them away right from under your feet.
Again, I do not want to be disrespectful. I do not want to convey that I think I know what should be done and what not. I know that you are also weighing your possibilities. But I feel, that my main arguments for releasing KRP asap by far outweigh the arguments against. And I am afraid you might not see that due to wrong priorities... What you lose now by possibly releasing KRP too late, can afterwards never be gained back - no matter how great your title is. In business theory, covering a market is
especially important in niche sectors. And the kart sim sector is definitely a niche sector.
Regards, Stout
http://www.bsimracing.com/iracing-more-surprises-coming-next-week/ (http://www.bsimracing.com/iracing-more-surprises-coming-next-week/)
:-\
They're adding motocross!!!!!! :P
Quote from: Guimengo on September 17, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
With all the fuss they're building up, it should either be more IMSA cars or buddies for the Audi instead of a new car class without any tracks to go with it.
http://www.virtualr.net/iracing-com-nissan-gtp-zx-t-now-available
;)
Quote from: Guimengo on September 29, 2016, 03:13:14 AM
I will consider iRacing as an option in the future and only drive those cars.
You can say about iRacing whatever you want, but it definitely has a major advantage over all other sims - it is the only one with a real working racing system. The racing you get there is as close to real racing as possible. You do not have people causing crashes on purpose if their race is not going like planned, you do not have stupid 13 year olds driving counter direction of travel, you almost do not have people quitting races early etc. etc. In general, people do much more of a risk vs reward calculation like real racers do. And this is something unique and that is why I actually like iracing very very much.