PiBoSo Official Forum

GP Bikes => Suggestions and wishlist => Topic started by: Urban Chaos 2.0 on February 20, 2017, 02:44:36 pm

Title: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Urban Chaos 2.0 on February 20, 2017, 02:44:36 pm
@Piboso: I think a non-conventional ghost for GP Bikes would go a long way. Here's the proposition:

A ghost should be added to GP Bikes, but one which will continue to lap at one of the rider's past lap times of the session (a lap-time the rider can choose). This means: as the ghost crosses the finish line, it continues the next lap, regardless of whether or not you have crossed the finish line as well. This will allow riders to race against their ghost for many laps because the ghost will continue running the same pace while the rider is on track. I think this is a very good idea, and will add something quite unique and interesting to GP Bikes. It will allow riders to prepare offline, for online races better, as it helps people lap consistently at a given pace with their ghost (which will be lapping continuously at the same pace as one of the previous lap-times set).
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: tchemi on February 20, 2017, 02:56:42 pm
+1 for the ghost !

Personnaly I think that the possibility to share/import/export ghost from other pilots could really help improve your riding. In a manner of certains games, when you go on the "result" panel, you can download the ghost of the best lap of any pilot. Then you could load it and race against it to see where it is faster than you. It's a dreamed feature, yes, but maybe it could gives ideas for the future.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Urban Chaos 2.0 on February 20, 2017, 03:01:22 pm
I don't think folks should be able to download other riders' ghosts. Ghosts are for offline training, and to help you grow as an individual rider. It should stay that way. One thing is for sure though: GP Bikes needs a ghost. Preferably non-transparent. A transparent ghost will look bad.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: MultiCOOLFRESH on February 20, 2017, 04:53:02 pm
+1
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: poumpouny on February 21, 2017, 05:59:24 am
The noob i am agree ! the thing is that when training offline, i'm making decent lap time, because i'm alone on the track. But the time i play online, i cannot stop falling, mainly because i'm not trained to have someone below or behind me, i lose lot of concentration. Ghost will help a lot training my concentration capabilities while having someone else in the track.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Urban Chaos 2.0 on February 21, 2017, 07:26:40 am
Quote from: poumpouny on February 21, 2017, 05:59:24 am
The noob i am agree ! the thing is that when training offline, i'm making decent lap time, because i'm alone on the track. But the time i play online, i cannot stop falling, mainly because i'm not trained to have someone below or behind me, i lose lot of concentration. Ghost will help a lot training my concentration capabilities while having someone else in the track.


+1

Exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: doubledragoncc on February 21, 2017, 08:45:31 am
This has already been talked about as there s one in MXB it is just a case of waiting for PIBOSO to do it if he will and can

DD
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: MonJue on February 21, 2017, 10:39:53 am
+1 Great idea.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: lkslodzkzn on February 21, 2017, 11:00:49 am
Quote from: Urban Chaos 2.0 on February 20, 2017, 02:44:36 pm
@Piboso: I think a non-conventional ghost for GP Bikes would go a long way. Here's the proposition:

A ghost should be added to GP Bikes, but one which will continue to lap at one of the rider's past lap times of the session (a lap-time the rider can choose). This means: as the ghost crosses the finish line, it continues the next lap, regardless of whether or not you have crossed the finish line as well. This will allow riders to race against their ghost for many laps because the ghost will continue running the same pace while the rider is on track. I think this is a very good idea, and will add something quite unique and interesting to GP Bikes. It will allow riders to prepare offline, for online races better, as it helps people lap consistently at a given pace with their ghost (which will be lapping continuously at the same pace as one of the previous lap-times set).
Nice idea totally agree.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Urban Chaos 2.0 on March 03, 2017, 08:00:09 pm
@Piboso: Please give us a ghost. I'm begging you bro! :'(

Haha seriously.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: guigui404 on March 03, 2017, 11:22:19 pm
IMO , ghost isn't a good thing , too far away from simulation
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Urban Chaos 2.0 on March 04, 2017, 05:25:28 am
Quote from: guigui404 on March 03, 2017, 11:22:19 pm
IMO , ghost isn't a good thing , too far away from simulation


A ghost is actually a very useful tool and a great feature for a sim like GP bikes. It's not far from simulation at all. If you don't want a ghost, don't enable it. It's that simple. The fact is, it will benefit damn-near EVERY GP Bikes rider.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: doubledragoncc on March 04, 2017, 10:15:58 am
THe MXB Ghost is brilliant and helps you better your times by showing you how you are riding, lines your taking and enables you to better yourself offline.

DD
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Urban Chaos 2.0 on March 04, 2017, 06:16:36 pm
Quote from: doubledragoncc on March 04, 2017, 10:15:58 am
THe MXB Ghost is brilliant and helps you better your times by showing you how you are riding, lines your taking and enables you to better yourself offline.

DD


Exactly! A GP Bikes ghost would improve the GP Bikes experience by a whole lot.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: IronHorse on November 11, 2017, 06:35:03 am
This is exactly what GP bikes is missing. I would love to race my ghost!
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: uberslug on November 11, 2017, 02:21:58 pm
There would need to be two modes for a ghost rider; Personal Best Lap Ghost and Set Lap Time Ghost.

The PBLG would, in essence, be a replay of one's personal best lap. It would need to be pretty sophisticated in order to update in real time or, at the very least, from lap to lap. If one rode around behind it one would learn where one is making mistakes and where future opponents would see an opportunity to stuff it up inside going into a turn.

The SLTG algorithm would need to be able to figure out the best possible lines for each corner of each track at the provided lap time. It would also need to take into account all of the variables such as bike type, track temperature, ambient temperature, tire wear, fuel load, etc.

I think I would find a tool like this REALLY helpful but I would not want the responsibility of having to program it.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: PiBoSo on November 11, 2017, 04:32:01 pm
It would be interesting to know from you, who just a few days ago wrote: "Eliminate Third Person View - It's a simulator, not a game... ", why the ghost rider is acceptable in GP Bikes.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Hawk on November 11, 2017, 04:55:41 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 11, 2017, 04:32:01 pm
It would be interesting to know from you, who just a few days ago wrote: "Eliminate Third Person View - It's a simulator, not a game... ", why the ghost rider is acceptable in GP Bikes.


I would agree totally with Piboso on this debate..... This is a simulator not a game. Implementing a ghost rider would be introducing Arcady features and something that is not needed in a serious sim, and I personally would hate to see it in any serious simulator. In fact name me one bike simulator that has a ghost rider feature?  ;D ;)
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: TimboC137 on November 11, 2017, 05:07:49 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 11, 2017, 04:32:01 pm
It would be interesting to know from you, who just a few days ago wrote: "Eliminate Third Person View - It's a simulator, not a game... ", why the ghost rider is acceptable in GP Bikes.


some concessions should be made. if there are no ghosts strictly to keep GPB a sim, then by that reason 3rd person view shouldn't be allowed either. but it is allowed because the majority use it. i think the majority of ppl here would use the ghosts, so they should be considered(as long as its possible) being put in GPB. no?

ghosts should be treated like 3rd person view. if you don't like it, don't use it. ghosts would also be somewhat of an alternative to AI. it would be something to do by oneself when there is nobody else online to practice with.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: matty0l215 on November 11, 2017, 05:57:56 pm
Quote from: Hawk on November 11, 2017, 04:55:41 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 11, 2017, 04:32:01 pm
It would be interesting to know from you, who just a few days ago wrote: "Eliminate Third Person View - It's a simulator, not a game... ", why the ghost rider is acceptable in GP Bikes.


I would agree totally with Piboso on this debate..... This is a simulator not a game. Implementing a ghost rider would be introducing Arcady features and something that is not needed in a serious sim, and I personally would hate to see it in any serious simulator. In fact name me one bike simulator that has a ghost rider feature?  ;D ;)


Going to have to disagree with you there...

How else am i going to beat anyone :P ;D

But seriously, MXB has the Trainer so why can't it be implimented in to GPB? As Timbo said, like 3rd person, It is personal prefrence if you want to use it. And for somthing that already works in the Core engine why not have it as another feature in each game (well assuming that it can be easily implimented Only Piboso can shed light on that)

Also, ghost can be shared. Good for training purposes. Fast people can share their laps and others can follow them.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Hawk on November 11, 2017, 07:27:50 pm
Okay, lets have an open ended POLL on this subject....... Not to try an influence Piboso, but just to gauge the real opinion on the matter.... History always shows that it's often those that speak loudest who are in the minority? ;D

I'll put a POLL up for everyone to vote on this matter. :)
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Napalm Nick on November 11, 2017, 08:01:34 pm
'NEED' is the difficult word I think.

It doesn't need it to be a good game/simulator but for me the more features the better. Even an 'arcade mode' if you like. As long as its a choice and it can't be mixed online I don't care too much. Pah and I am a sim fanboy! Must be getting mellow in my old age.

Not everyone wants to play online (even if we could ha!  :P)
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: uberslug on November 12, 2017, 12:25:21 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 11, 2017, 04:32:01 pm
It would be interesting to know from you, who just a few days ago wrote: "Eliminate Third Person View - It's a simulator, not a game... ", why the ghost rider is acceptable in GP Bikes.


Seems like a bit of a contradiction, doesn't it?

First - Third person view provides the person using the simulator with an unrealistic view of the track and the chassis. To express my opinion in is as blunt a manner as possible, a person using the simulator in third person view is little more than a puppet master.

Second - Ghost view really isn't any different than Miller following Marquez around Valencia trying to figure out how to get to Marquez's level. Riders have been following each other around for decades trying to learn each other's lines and craft. If implemented properly, a ghost rider would allow us to train effectively in testing mode and would make racing online that much more enjoyable as participants would be more accustomed to riding in close proximity to another rider. I have only been at this for approximately nine months with barely four months of online shenanigans under my leathers. I have been knocked down more times by other riders in these four months than I have been knocked down during 40 years of bicycle racing. I think many of these mishaps could be avoided by having adequate training time.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: KG_03 on November 12, 2017, 12:34:11 am
IMO lack of ghost make the online racing alive. I prefer 1000times more to race online than practice offline. I must say that the immersion and realism that GP Bikes give is fantastic. Also you people who know what you want motorcycle game and understand how to behave on track is fantastic. I didn't wait long to start multiplayer racing. Despite I still make so many mistakes and crash very often I have learned a lot thanks to other players in online racing, following others or getting tips from them. Ghosts won't give you experience and fun.

There are many more important things that developer could spend time at improvement. Even if in the end the suggestion of ghost will be approved by PiBoSo I hope it will be at the far end of the list.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: uberslug on November 12, 2017, 12:51:35 am
Quote from: KG13 on November 12, 2017, 12:34:11 amThere are many more important things that developer could spend time at improvement. Even if in the end the suggestion of ghost will be approved by PiBoSo I hope it will be at the far end of the list.


I agree that the priority should be getting the online racing stable so more and more people participate, however, when the online races have no participants riding against a ghost rider would be preferable to riding alone.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Hawk on November 12, 2017, 09:40:17 am
Quote from: KG13 on November 12, 2017, 12:34:11 am
IMO lack of ghost make the online racing alive. I prefer 1000times more to race online than practice offline. I must say that the immersion and realism that GP Bikes give is fantastic. Also you people who know what you want motorcycle game and understand how to behave on track is fantastic. I didn't wait long to start multiplayer racing. Despite I still make so many mistakes and crash very often I have learned a lot thanks to other players in online racing, following others or getting tips from them. Ghosts won't give you experience and fun.

There are many more important things that developer could spend time at improvement. Even if in the end the suggestion of ghost will be approved by PiBoSo I hope it will be at the far end of the list.


+1 Totally agree with everything you said there KG13.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: HornetMaX on November 12, 2017, 11:50:01 am
Quote from: matty0l215 on November 11, 2017, 05:57:56 pm
But seriously, MXB has the Trainer so why can't it be implimented in to GPB?

This ^

Even more actually: KRP has a ghost, and KRP is probably the PiBoSo title closer to the "ultimate simulator" stance.

I don't think a ghost would take people away from online racing. Online racing is something totally different: different pleasure, different constraint, ...

No biggie for me, I'm not sure how much of a difference the ghost would make for me personally in GPB, but to be honest I cannot understand why it is there in MXB/KRP and not. So if the majority is in favour, I'd go with that.

Of course, online stability and the DSQ at start issues are far more important.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: uberslug on November 12, 2017, 12:49:59 pm
Just to be clear, I think Ghost Mode should only be an optional feature in Testing. In no way, shape, or form should there be any type of AI Creature or Ghost in Racing.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: HornetMaX on November 12, 2017, 12:59:25 pm
Quote from: uberslug on November 12, 2017, 12:49:59 pm
Just to be clear, I think Ghost Mode should only be an optional feature in Testing. In no way, shape, or form should there be any type of AI Creature or Ghost in Racing.

That's exactly what's being discussed here, ghost for offline (its called trainer in mxb/krp).
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: davidboda46 on November 13, 2017, 11:47:14 am
My opinion is that a Ghost would be nice for offline training, specially since the online part of the game is not working properly. Just riding around doing hot-laps offline gets a bit stale after a while, a ghost would make it more interesting and you would probably also improve your riding. If the choice is "implementing ghost" vs "fixing online problems" then I would choose the later 100%. But since the problem with the online has been around for ever... it all also depends on how much work it would take to implement the ghost.

According to me there are still 3 major problems with GP-bikes that needs to be fixed ahead of more "cosmetic" work (sorted by importance):
1. Online stability - core exe, lag, riders connecting lag, "bouncing bikes", jump starts and so on.
2. Front wheel stability on uphill-, downhill turns and on bumpy surface.
3. Wheels on curbs, at the moment it is pretty much a guaranteed crash as soon as you touch a curb when the bike is leaning.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46     
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: PiBoSo on November 13, 2017, 11:55:35 am
Quote from: matty0l215 on November 11, 2017, 05:57:56 pm
But seriously, MXB has the Trainer so why can't it be implimented in to GPB?


The trainer in KRP and MXB was a little "wink" to the commercial side ( unfortunately MXB has other compromises, but I'm not going to discuss them ).
I'd like to keep GPB and WRS as close to my simulator "vision" as possible.
Nonetheless, I'm becoming less and less adamant about the "no-ghost" policy, and the opinion of hardcore simmers like uberslub is very interesting.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: HornetMaX on November 13, 2017, 12:05:11 pm
Quote from: uberslug on November 12, 2017, 12:25:21 am
Second - Ghost view really isn't any different than Miller following Marquez around Valencia trying to figure out how to get to Marquez's level. Riders have been following each other around for decades trying to learn each other's lines and craft. If implemented properly, a ghost rider would allow us to train effectively in testing mode and would make racing online that much more enjoyable as participants would be more accustomed to riding in close proximity to another rider.

Hmmm not so sure: trainer/ghost has no collision (and, of course, no awareness you're trying to pass him on the inside).
I think it could be a good practice tool: try to outbrake yourself on this or that turn, take a different trajectory here or there, check what a setup change does etc. But to become good at online racing, you have only one thing to do: online race.

Quote from: uberslug on November 12, 2017, 12:25:21 am
I have only been at this for approximately nine months with barely four months of online shenanigans under my leathers. I have been knocked down more times by other riders in these four months than I have been knocked down during 40 years of bicycle racing.

That's because when you crash in GPB, your knees don't get scratched :)
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: RaDiCaL on November 13, 2017, 12:14:42 pm
mhh...i have read this and i have to say that i dont understand this.
It's a fact that the Servers are empty and i have to ride with my son alone. What would happen if some modders and riders like manu, blackheart or others
leave this comunity and do other Things? this comunity is very small and i think that the game will die...I mean no one Plays this sim with the original 3 bikes and one track.
So we have to look Forward and improve the game experience and why not with a ghost? so we can try to beat the ghost of other riders instead of racing alone on an empty Server.
I know that piboso is doing a great Job and this Simulation is awesome but without the comunity there is nothing left to bring new Players to this game.
and btw....without 3rd Person there are only some hardcore riders left i think...for me it's much to difficult to ride this in first Person. At least it is a game and i want to relax after work
and have good races with this.

just my two Cents..
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: matty0l215 on November 13, 2017, 05:21:11 pm
I would race online if we could race. I mainly practice ofline then when there is an event i would go online and test for that with other. As there isn't currently any real racing (i know there is the Hotlap event, but even that doesn't work fully because of the timing issue with the live timing)

I would happily give up on the Trainer/Ghost forever if it meant the jump start bug was looked at sooner rather than later. I would happily host a championship even once it is sorted, with fun races in between. Christ, we used to have one or two weekly races with the GPB Open Club (When Nick was running it before he became a Wildman and went to live in the Turnip Fields :P)
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: doubledragoncc on November 14, 2017, 07:38:51 am
Yeah sorry for not holding any races matty but it just aint worth the agg as all the online issues make it hell and no fun.

Once Mr P updates then I will have them back in full swing

DD
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: KG_03 on November 14, 2017, 08:20:49 am
Since I have started to play online whats about 1month for now I had only few core crashes... What comparing to MotoGP17 is much less problematic.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: matty0l215 on November 14, 2017, 11:17:51 am
Quote from: doubledragoncc on November 14, 2017, 07:38:51 am
Yeah sorry for not holding any races matty but it just aint worth the agg as all the online issues make it hell and no fun.

Once Mr P updates then I will have them back in full swing

DD


Noooo. Not your fault mate :P

Just saying thats what we used to have we the jump start drop wasnt a major issue.
Title: Re: GP Bikes Needs a Ghost/Trainer
Post by: Luponius on December 03, 2017, 09:01:17 am
Quote from: KG13 on November 14, 2017, 08:20:49 am
Since I have started to play online whats about 1month for now I had only few core crashes... What comparing to MotoGP17 is much less problematic.


I've been far less than that in online gameplay and I found multiplayer stability quite ok.  Only two issues for me were the massive freeze when someone joins, and the super harsh left, right and center Disq when deploying bike to track.  Other than that, had a semi serious race with someone yesterday and it was a lot of fun - obviously we both crashed like muppets but it kept us on the edge! :P