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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: PiBoSo on May 17, 2017, 10:51:49 pm

Title: eMotorsports?
Post by: PiBoSo on May 17, 2017, 10:51:49 pm

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-05-17-motogp-firm-aims-to-create-the-most-important-racing-esport-championship
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: miki on May 17, 2017, 11:13:09 pm
Personally it seems silly to me, especially with a game like MotoGP17.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 17, 2017, 11:45:34 pm
We been saying this sort of thing will happen for years now Pib...... Do you still think online racing and championship facilities/utilities isn't a main priority for GPB?

If GPBikes was rock solid stable and V1.0 you could've stood a good chance being noticed for such an interest from these guys wanting to create online championships; still could in the future if you can speed up development of GPB.  :)

In the meantime that piece of crap(MotoGP from Milestone) is going to get all the glory and in a lot of respects ruin the foundation for realistic online motorcycle racing championships. Notice I said, "Realistic"? This is where your niche is and what you should concentrate on for the online championship capabilities and not the Gameboys that will use Milestones MotoGP. Keep it real!  ;D 8)

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: miki on May 18, 2017, 12:59:17 am
I think the problem is majority of people would find GPBikes too challenging and the learning curve too steep. Sure, bikers will like it, but there really isn't that many around compared to general population; and of the ones out there, how many will be interested in playing a racing sim?

That being said, GPBikes would be a much better choice for a project like this. Then again, Milestone does make the 'official' motogp game so it makes sense for them to use it if the project is run in association with DORNA :-\
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 18, 2017, 06:15:51 am
Quote from: miki on May 18, 2017, 12:59:17 am
I think the problem is majority of people would find GPBikes too challenging and the learning curve too steep. Sure, bikers will like it, but there really isn't that many around compared to general population; and of the ones out there, how many will be interested in playing a racing sim?

That being said, GPBikes would be a much better choice for a project like this. Then again, Milestone does make the 'official' motogp game so it makes sense for them to use it if the project is run in association with DORNA :-\


I think the point is that if Dorna were behind GPBikes in creating genuine realistic online MotoGP champs then I guarantee you that would pull in thousands of these Milestone-Gameboys to learn to ride and race properly in GPBikes just to be able to take part in what would be considered the blue ribbon of online motoGP racing; online racing using milestone rubbish would be considered for riders who couldn't hack the best... and there lies the challenge that anyone interested with a competitive spirit couldn't resist taking part. This is how it would be if only the vision was there to see it and make it happen.   ;) ;)

I'm sure Dorna would rather go with a realistic bikesim than a bike game that is SO obviously not realistic by any sense of the word..... GPBikes just needs a good spit and polish and a bloody good service to make it run rock-solid online.
Lets face it, all Milestone have as a plus on GPBikes at this time is it's eye-candy and official licencing from Dorna... I'm sure that could be turned around if GPBikes was finally complete and finished together with all the tools for modders fully developed and working properly, and also the modding tools being designed to work with industry standard professional applications and not aimed at the freebie amateur app market. Professionals will give you professional mods - freebie or amateur app users will give you armature standard mods.... It's quite simple when you stop to think about it. So in my opinion, aim and design the mod tools for the professional dev apps and not the amateur dev apps. Think about the future possibilities, think BIG I say!

Online racing will be a massive thing in the not so distant future, and realistic physics will be it's foundation. What's needed to set it all off is a grid full of good riders to show this vision to the world who can not only ride a realistic bike sim well online but also know how to race properly and know what they are doing when riding close to other riders without crashing or causing others to crash. We have seen a few examples of great riding and close racing online recently and it's great to watch; we need more of it!

As far as I can see, the motoGP fans have been and are still waiting for a developer to come along with the right piece of kit to make all this happen.... Have been since the release of GP500 and the relatively recent advances and accessibility for the majority of users in telecommunication speeds in my opinion, and yet that trophy is surprisingly still up for grabs to the developer who has that vision to make this happen.  ;)

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on May 18, 2017, 10:54:37 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 18, 2017, 06:15:51 am
I'm sure Dorna would rather go with a realistic bikesim than a bike game that is SO obviously not realistic by any sense of the word.....

I'm sure Dorna goes with whoever brings more money. The rest is irrelevant.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: PiBoSo on May 18, 2017, 11:05:06 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 17, 2017, 11:45:34 pm
We been saying this sort of thing will happen for years now Pib...... Do you still think online racing and championship facilities/utilities isn't a main priority for GPB?

If GPBikes was rock solid stable and V1.0 you could've stood a good chance being noticed for such an interest from these guys wanting to create online championships; still could in the future if you can speed up development of GPB.  :)

In the meantime that piece of crap(MotoGP from Milestone) is going to get all the glory and in a lot of respects ruin the foundation for realistic online motorcycle racing championships. Notice I said, "Realistic"? This is where your niche is and what you should concentrate on for the online championship capabilities and not the Gameboys that will use Milestones MotoGP. Keep it real!  ;D 8)

Hawk.


At the moment there isn't enough money around racing eSports to justify the creation of all the tracks and bikes for a full season.
So the only option for Dorna is to use a game that already has the license and all the needed content. Plus, console versions.

The real question is: how many will be interested in following that championship? Does it have a future?
eSports sustain themselves with viewers, that attract sponsors and media coverage.

What do you think?
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 18, 2017, 11:53:57 am
I think it is great! The more motorcycle initiatives the better.

But damn! I just wish it was with your game Pib. I really do. :(
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: BOBR6 84 on May 18, 2017, 01:06:30 pm
Yeah a finger needs to be pulled out to get gpbikes completed.. Or leave it as it is and let modders take over.. But doing that, nothing will be official so...  :-\
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 18, 2017, 02:09:02 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on May 18, 2017, 11:05:06 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 17, 2017, 11:45:34 pm
We been saying this sort of thing will happen for years now Pib...... Do you still think online racing and championship facilities/utilities isn't a main priority for GPB?

If GPBikes was rock solid stable and V1.0 you could've stood a good chance being noticed for such an interest from these guys wanting to create online championships; still could in the future if you can speed up development of GPB.  :)

In the meantime that piece of crap(MotoGP from Milestone) is going to get all the glory and in a lot of respects ruin the foundation for realistic online motorcycle racing championships. Notice I said, "Realistic"? This is where your niche is and what you should concentrate on for the online championship capabilities and not the Gameboys that will use Milestones MotoGP. Keep it real!  ;D 8)

Hawk.


At the moment there isn't enough money around racing eSports to justify the creation of all the tracks and bikes for a full season.
So the only option for Dorna is to use a game that already has the license and all the needed content. Plus, console versions.

This is where the modders come in - to initially get the whole thing off the ground totally free - the passion is there in the GPBike modding community to do this, I'm sure of it.
With the right modding tools we can supply any amount of bikes and tracks needed, including near real fantasy named tracks if we have any issues with licensing authorities.
Then when the inevitable interest starts to come from the bigger sponsors and companies, GPBikes will be in a position where it's proven itself to be "The" piece of kit to service the eSport MotoGP market, and I'm sure some of the modders could possibly benefit from that too.
But to get there, you(Piboso) would have to play your part in providing a rock solid online eSport experience for the competitors and spectators. The rest will come from the GPBike community in providing the characters, and skilled riders to show the world how good realistically simulated MotoGP eSport can be.

Dorna will eventually go where the real interest lies, and the real interest with eSports lies in it's realism: If Piboso can bring GPBikes up to scratch to service this eSport market then I'm damn sure Dorna would be more interested in GPBikes for it's vision of eSport than Milestones gamey product. It's not all about the money Dorna could make from this, I'm sure for Dorna it's more about promoting MotoGP to any potential fans for the future of the sport itself, and that relies on them backing the most realistic representation of MotoGP for it's vision of eSport.


Quote from: PiBoSo on May 18, 2017, 11:05:06 am
The real question is: how many will be interested in following that championship? Does it have a future?
eSports sustain themselves with viewers, that attract sponsors and media coverage.

What do you think?


I think that eSport at this time is still in it's embryonic stage, especially were MotoGP eSport events are concerned. It's only relatively recent that technology has advanced to a stage were anyone connected to the internet with a decent speed can viably take part in organised eSport events; it's one of those areas of entertainment that given the tools by the developers to do what the viewers want to see will take off, not initially through heavy sponsorship from big companies but this will build from a grass roots level up(from the competitors and event organisers themselves). From there it will eventually attract the attention of bigger sponsors and organisations once they realise it's growing popularity and it's full potential; we are already seeing Dorna showing interest, not just because like Max was saying that they are only interested in the money, but they are also interested because they know what it can do for MotoGP and it's future popularity and subsequent spectator attendance at the real-life MotoGP events. They see it as a public relations selling point, that is the real reason Dorna are showing interest; the money to be made will just be a bonus for them in my opinion, the same as extra bums on seats at real-life events is a bonus from any money they spend on advertising MotoGP events; this is why they are testing the ground to sponsor/fund this sort of thing. They are just doing it with the wrong company in my opinion because they don't know of anyone or company that could do a better(more realistic) job.

Yes, in my opinion Dorna are dealing with the wrong company in 'Milestone' but don't yet realise it because they think 'Milestone' is the Dogs-Bollocks of creating Motorcycle games not realistic simulations, and realistic simulation is what the eSport market will, if not initially, come to realise is what the public/viewers want to see, and the only thing that will give eSport the respect and reverence that will allow it to flourish into the future is the viewers knowledge that riding one of these simulated MotoGP bikes in an eSport event needs a lot of skill and talent similar to the real life MotoGP and that the bikes are realistically simulated MotoGP bikes.
I mean who would give a damn about riders who race in Milestone MotoGP events knowing how easy it is to ride those bikes because of the gamey physics they've applied to the bikes? There would be no sense of awe or respect for what the riders can do in a Milestone MotoGP event because anyone willing to practice a little can achieve the same results, were in GPBikes you need real talent and skill to be the best because of it's realistic physics simulation of the bikes.... That is what will make the difference, and that is why I say that Dorna are making a big mistake by backing Milestone because after the initial interest from that project, simply because they will inevitably promote it as "The Ultimate MotoGP eSport Experience", people(viewers) will soon come to realise that it's boring to watch because of it's lack of realism; viewers are not stupid, they will realise it's nothing like realistic and soon be turned-off from it, and this is why I say they will end-up ruining the foundation of the potential of what eSport can become if done properly. You can't blame Dorna, as I say, they think Milestone is the Dogs-Bollocks in creating the most realistic MotoGP games possible..... I bet they don't even know about how good the physics are in GPBikes and what is possible as far as realism is concerned; otherwise if they had any sense they'd want to work with you to achieve the vision they have for MotoGP eSport. Sadly, your(Piboso) only drawback in their eyes would be your lack of resources to get GPBikes to where it needs to be to represent their vision anytime soon. But that's not to say Dorna wouldn't be interested to part company with Milestone if GPBikes can be brought up to spec in the relatively near future!  :)

In my opinion, the eSport MotoGP market is there to be had with GPBikes Piboso, but only if you crack on and get GPBikes up to spec to be able to service that market reliably.  :)

So in answer to your question, yes, I think that there is a viable future for MotoGP eSport if done properly, and I believe the events will gradually grow and grow in popularity as the word gets around if what the spectators are viewing is a realistic representation of MotoGP. But because it's an embryonic market it's a market that needs a product to create that market, and I believe GPBikes fully developed and targeted at this market could easily take over as the product to have for MotoGP eSport.

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: vali_grad on May 18, 2017, 05:13:18 pm
No way !
The audience for motorcycle games is narrower than car games (sim & arcade together) .
To be honest gp bikes is the hardest to get confortable with compared to any games/sims to date .
personally I can compare the learning curve & experience of gp bikes with fsx, a lot of stuff to get into the game to have fun and a lot more settings to have a good run.
With every update the game is ironed out, crashes & bugs seem abolished... but no way to get so mutch audience from gamers, with so many fps/strategy/other racing heavy advertised games  :P
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: passerBy on May 18, 2017, 06:45:29 pm
Quote from: vali_grad on May 18, 2017, 05:13:18 pm
personally I can compare the learning curve & experience of gp bikes with fsx

Rather, with DCS :)
FSX' physics is close to nonexistent... And when you go direct steering, it becomes "DCS with helicopters" (which is great, if you ask me)
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 18, 2017, 07:53:33 pm
Quote from: vali_grad on May 18, 2017, 05:13:18 pm
No way !
The audience for motorcycle games is narrower than car games (sim & arcade together) .
To be honest gp bikes is the hardest to get confortable with compared to any games/sims to date .
personally I can compare the learning curve & experience of gp bikes with fsx, a lot of stuff to get into the game to have fun and a lot more settings to have a good run.
With every update the game is ironed out, crashes & bugs seem abolished... but no way to get so mutch audience from gamers, with so many fps/strategy/other racing heavy advertised games  :P


I'm not talking about the majority of the current audience Vali they are just Gameboys who want a quick fix and be able to jump on any bike and compete to win without any real training or practice; That soon becomes a bore and is not good to watch as a spectator.
What I'm talking about is a progressively sustainable user base and audience for realistic eSport bike events that will have a big future, and to compete well will take time in practicing the skills required to compete well; this is were the real future is for eSports. This is what will attract the sponsorship from the big companies in the future. :)

Put it this way: Who has the majority current market for Car Motorsport online racing? Do they have gamey physics or pander to the majority console boys? No.... Realism is what eSport needs not gimmicky physics...... I rest my case.  :P  :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 06:26:45 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 18, 2017, 07:53:33 pm
Put it this way: Who has the majority current market for Car Motorsport online racing? Do they have gamey physics or pander to the majority console boys? No.... Realism is what eSport needs not gimmicky physics...... I rest my case.  :P  :)

Put it this way: who has an official F1 license ?
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: matty0l215 on May 19, 2017, 07:41:25 am
What the games by Codies?

Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 09:06:48 am
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 06:26:45 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 18, 2017, 07:53:33 pm
Put it this way: Who has the majority current market for Car Motorsport online racing? Do they have gamey physics or pander to the majority console boys? No.... Realism is what eSport needs not gimmicky physics...... I rest my case.  :P  :)

Put it this way: who has an official F1 license ?


CodeMasters still have the F1 license simply because the F1 authorities haven't yet seriously thought about backing an eSport online racing industry Max. When they finally wake-up to the potential of eSport(which won't be very long now F1 have new masters) they will be looking for a development company that give the most realistic simulation/representation of F1 possible; that won't be CodeMasters for sure!  :P :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 10:00:22 am
MotoGP has hard time finding prime time slots on national tvs and you think motorbike esport has a bright future for sure.
The vast majority of gamers are on arcade triple A games and you think hardcore sims will be selected by major global brands for sure.
iRacing (cars, surely a much larger players base than bikes) survives only thanks to its sponsor (at least that's what we've been told here) and you think GPB could become big in eSport just because it's a very good sim.

I think you're daydreaming, but daydreaming is free of charge, so no biggie :)
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: passerBy on May 19, 2017, 11:04:21 am
Have to agree with Max on this one. The world is ruled by money. Sometimes it's the need, sometimes it's sheer greed.

After the WRC license was given to Kylotonn once, Mario Kart has a good chance of becoming the official sim for KWC. Simulators are only of interest to the enthusiasts. And there's not a whole lot of enthusiasts out there... So, when you create a sim, you should get used to the idea that only a handful of people will appreciate your work. The more serious you are about the sim scene, the more respect to you, though.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 11:16:25 am
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 10:00:22 am
MotoGP has hard time finding prime time slots on national tvs and you think motorbike esport has a bright future for sure.
The vast majority of gamers are on arcade triple A games and you think hardcore sims will be selected by major global brands for sure.
iRacing (cars, surely a much larger players base than bikes) survives only thanks to its sponsor (at least that's what we've been told here) and you think GPB could become big in eSport just because it's a very good sim.

I think you're daydreaming, but daydreaming is free of charge, so no biggie :)


The mistake your making is that your thinking of the here and now Max.... If you really want to make a success of anything you have to have a vision of what could be and make it happen. Trying to jump on the band-wagon of what has already been done before will only at best get you short term success.
But one thing is for sure Max..... No one will make a success from online eSport events if they try and go with the gamey triple A games of the likes of Milestone and Codemasters..... Online eSports events have to have that realistic simulation element if they are to achieve any level of popularity with competitors/spectators and subsequently the big sponsors that will be attracted to it.
Watching those ridiculous gamey physics as a spectator is at best a good laugh, but it also becomes very boring very quickly; it's good fun for the user/player no doubt, but really pretty rubbish to actually watch as a spectator. But watching a realistic simulation of an event is almost as good as watching the real thing and does holds your interest. That's the big difference.

Only dreamers will ever achieve anything in life Max...... That's where new ideas are born and new industries made.  :P

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 11:37:30 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 11:16:25 am
Only dreamers will ever achieve anything in life Max...... .  :P

Or not.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Cory_Hayes.11 on May 19, 2017, 11:39:51 am
Interesting reading all of this, if GPB ( or any motorbike game for that matter ) were to be an eSport, wouldn't the people competing need to be using something other than a gamepad as well for it to stand out as an actual simulator instead of a game like MotoGP?

( this might not be relevant right now in the discussion but it is something that would have to be a factor )
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 11:44:17 am
Quote from: passerBy on May 19, 2017, 11:04:21 am
Have to agree with Max on this one. The world is ruled by money. Sometimes it's the need, sometimes it's sheer greed.

After the WRC license was given to Kylotonn once, Mario Kart has a good chance of becoming the official sim for KWC. Simulators are only of interest to the enthusiasts. And there's not a whole lot of enthusiasts out there... So, when you create a sim, you should get used to the idea that only a handful of people will appreciate your work. The more serious you are about the sim scene, the more respect to you, though.


The point here is: "How to make a success of online eSports, and how many viewers do we think can be attracted to watch such events".

It's not at all about how many people will actually become competitors in eSport, it's about designing a product that attracts viewers to watch. That will generate the subsequent interest of the big sponsors and media and that in turn will generate even more interest to watch the events.
The developer of the actual simulation software will benefit a lot more from the licensing contracts to the big sponsors, media and viewing rights to the events than the money they'll make from actual sales of the simulation software; actual software sales will just be a bonus for the developer for people who dream of actually being able to compete in such events, and as the industry becomes more popular, those sales will naturally increase as time goes by.

This is a totally different type of market to raw game sales, and you can't apply the typical game sales logic to how well or how popular online eSport events will become in the future.

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 11:52:34 am
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 11:37:30 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 11:16:25 am
Only dreamers will ever achieve anything in life Max...... .  :P

Or not.


Haha, Max! Don't be so negative! ;D

You only fail if you dream and don't do anything about it because people around you are telling you it'll never work and your just living in a dream-world(Does that ring a bell?).

You can achieve anything you want in life if you are determined enough to make it happen and shrug-off the doubters because you have a vision and you know you can make it work.  ;)

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 12:03:10 pm
Quote from: Cory_Hayes.11 on May 19, 2017, 11:39:51 am
Interesting reading all of this, if GPB ( or any motorbike game for that matter ) were to be an eSport, wouldn't the people competing need to be using something other than a gamepad as well for it to stand out as an actual simulator instead of a game like MotoGP?

( this might not be relevant right now in the discussion but it is something that would have to be a factor )


Oh, I'm sure once these events started to take off that competitors will undoubtedly want to purchase real bike controllers of the likes DD sells or similar to gain the best advantage they can. I'm sure there would be a whole spin-off industry in supplying motorcycle controllers of all types and designs to try and gain an advantage.  :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 01:24:06 pm
I always doubt about people presenting a plan in front of me and using the words "sure", "undoubtedly" etc way too often. In general, they are far from sure.

That aside, you can put how many internet-gibberish you want ("You only fail if you dream", "You can achieve anything you want in life if you are determined enough"), but the reality is something else.

At any rate, if you're just half as sure as you say you are, go to your bank, ask for a loan, kickstart motorbike esport and become rich and our personal hero :)
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 01:24:06 pm
I always doubt about people presenting a plan in front of me and using the words "sure", "undoubtedly" etc way too often. In general, they are far from sure.

That aside, you can put how many internet-gibberish you want ("You only fail if you dream", "You can achieve anything you want in life if you are determined enough"), but the reality is something else.

At any rate, if you're just half as sure as you say you are, go to your bank, ask for a loan, kickstart motorbike esport and become rich and our personal hero :)


You sound like someone who's had his fingers badly burned Max?  :-\

Don't mistake me being positive and confident about it as so called gibberish.... If everyone had a negative outlook on the subject then nothing would ever get off the ground......

If you have a vision for what would be possible with online eSport then please share it. I'm well open to be proven wrong in my vision, or if someone else has a better vision for going forward with eSport for MotoGP? Let's get the ideas out here and discuss/debate them. ;) :)

Kickstarter would probably be the way to go with this..... Only the general public seem to have a vision for these kind of projects and willing to contribute to make them happen.
Banks? Well I'd have to take that suggestion as a joke, Max! Haha!  ;D :P

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 02:34:33 pm
Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
You sound like someone who's had his fingers badly burned Max?  :-\

I still have all my fingers unburnt. Mostly thanks to what you call "being negative".

It's always easier for people with no stakes to dream about this or that making it big.
Totally different for people having to shed out their money/time/life to actually doing what you ask (Dorna, Milestone, Piboso etc).

Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
Don't mistake me being positive and confident about it as so called gibberish.... If everyone had a negative outlook on the subject then nothing would ever get off the ground......

And if everyone had a positive outlook as you do, the world would be full of scammers. No wait, it is full of scammers ... :)

Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
If you have a vision for what would be possible with online eSport then please share it.

I don't. That's the point. eSport only works if masses join. I don't see masses of people playing bike sims or games. End of the story.
If cars can't make it happen, there's no way bikes could: cars have a way larger user base and way more money overall to throw at it.

Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
Kickstarter would probably be the way to go with this..... Only the general public seem to have a vision for these kind of projects and willing to contribute to make them happen.
Banks? Well I'd have to take that suggestion as a joke, Max! Haha!  ;D :P

How in hell would you like to use kickstarter to promote eSport on motorbikes ?!?!

On a side note, the last kickstarter we had (the one for a laser scanned TT track) didn't end exactly as many expected/were sure of.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: matty0l215 on May 19, 2017, 03:02:18 pm
The main issue with eSports in Western culture they aren't deemed to be mainstream spectator sport. (Not like football/rugby/cricket/f1/motogp/etc. anyway) Go to Asia (mainly Japan, Korea, Tiwan) and you can move without seeing some sort of Game being shown as "sport" on the TV/Internet.

Things are catching up but not at the pace most people would probably like and certianlly not in the Motorsports genre. It is to neiche. 

Unless we see a massive shift in how and what people watch I don't think there is going to be a massive following soon. The community (for motorbike sims anyway) is to small the shout loud enough to get poeple to listen/watch and those who currently watch racing are most likley envolved in it in some way.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: WALKEN on May 19, 2017, 03:47:07 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on May 18, 2017, 11:05:06 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 17, 2017, 11:45:34 pm
We been saying this sort of thing will happen for years now Pib...... Do you still think online racing and championship facilities/utilities isn't a main priority for GPB?

If GPBikes was rock solid stable and V1.0 you could've stood a good chance being noticed for such an interest from these guys wanting to create online championships; still could in the future if you can speed up development of GPB.  :)

In the meantime that piece of crap(MotoGP from Milestone) is going to get all the glory and in a lot of respects ruin the foundation for realistic online motorcycle racing championships. Notice I said, "Realistic"? This is where your niche is and what you should concentrate on for the online championship capabilities and not the Gameboys that will use Milestones MotoGP. Keep it real!  ;D 8)

Hawk.


At the moment there isn't enough money around racing eSports to justify the creation of all the tracks and bikes for a full season.
So the only option for Dorna is to use a game that already has the license and all the needed content. Plus, console versions.

The real question is: how many will be interested in following that championship? Does it have a future?
eSports sustain themselves with viewers, that attract sponsors and media coverage.

What do you think?


I'll tell you what I think. Its almost down right dead and boring how many times I have mentioned to developers @   "later Climax"/Monumental/Milestone/Capcom. I practically wrote books on the success of the first 2 Climax MotoGP offerings netcode, by Shawn Hargreaves.  On GP1 (Climax) every night was like a Friday night out with your friends. The scoreboards were the carrot and the competition was insane!   

You can make the greatest simulation/game but the most important part is creating a robust netcode the way Shawn Hargreaves did. All the features where there and no one beyond Shawn capitalized on his work...

A server that runs all platforms be it pc/xbox/ps etc with resettable scoreboards. Its the drama of a collective interest and the micro social bubbles. Having your name at the top of a scoreboard is like being a mini Rossi. It allows those who take virtual racing serious to a level of competitiveness not found by simply racing on line and crashing into each other.

On NetworkChallenge.org we kept the Climax series alive for years on PC until Gamespy ended.

Even if this NEW thing they wanna do is brought to the table they will ruin it. They just don't understand that simple is best and looking back to the past is the key!   :(           
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 03:52:29 pm
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 02:34:33 pm
Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
You sound like someone who's had his fingers badly burned Max?  :-\

I still have all my fingers unburnt. Mostly thanks to what you call "being negative".

It's always easier for people with no stakes to dream about this or that making it big.
Totally different for people having to shed out their money/time/life to actually doing what you ask (Dorna, Milestone, Piboso etc).

Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
Don't mistake me being positive and confident about it as so called gibberish.... If everyone had a negative outlook on the subject then nothing would ever get off the ground......

And if everyone had a positive outlook as you do, the world would be full of scammers. No wait, it is full of scammers ... :)

Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
If you have a vision for what would be possible with online eSport then please share it.

I don't. That's the point. eSport only works if masses join. I don't see masses of people playing bike sims or games. End of the story.
If cars can't make it happen, there's no way bikes could: cars have a way larger user base and way more money overall to throw at it.

Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 pm
Kickstarter would probably be the way to go with this..... Only the general public seem to have a vision for these kind of projects and willing to contribute to make them happen.
Banks? Well I'd have to take that suggestion as a joke, Max! Haha!  ;D :P

How in hell would you like to use kickstarter to promote eSport on motorbikes ?!?!

On a side note, the last Kickstarter we had (the one for a laser scanned TT track) didn't end exactly as many expected/were sure of.


So as far as your concerned, all this vision of online eSport for MotoGP is total rubbish and would never work? Seems to me that is what your basically saying from your above replies?

Kickstarter could be used for it's purpose; to raise the funds required to produce the software and organisation needed to create this vision. But it would need the right team put together with the right credentials and a viable road plan for it to work.

The Kickstarter for the laser scanned TT track(not sure what this has to do with MotoGP eSport, but anyway): Did you ever think that was going to succeed? That was like saying if I supply the raw data for producing a model of a TT track then someone else can use it to create the track as part of a TT race game.... Really?  :o
Now if they were a game/sim dev team and promoted it as wanting funding to create a TT race simulation and could prove their credentials to achieve that with a viable road-plan then it might have stood a chance of succeeding. In the end it failed simply because at the end of the day the result of what they were offering was not an actual product or service at all.

But the alternative and probably the best way to get this going, without Kickstarter, would be from what I was suggesting in my post here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=4971.msg75694#msg75694 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=4971.msg75694#msg75694)

"Mighty oaks grow from little acorns"

Hawk.



Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 04:23:33 pm
Quote from: matty0l215 on May 19, 2017, 03:02:18 pm
The main issue with eSports in Western culture they aren't deemed to be mainstream spectator sport. (Not like football/rugby/cricket/f1/motogp/etc. anyway) Go to Asia (mainly Japan, Korea, Tiwan) and you can move without seeing some sort of Game being shown as "sport" on the TV/Internet.

Things are catching up but not at the pace most people would probably like and certianlly not in the Motorsports genre. It is to neiche. 

Unless we see a massive shift in how and what people watch I don't think there is going to be a massive following soon. The community (for motorbike sims anyway) is to small the shout loud enough to get poeple to listen/watch and those who currently watch racing are most likley envolved in it in some way.


Totally agree with you Matty about eSport and gaming in general in the "East" is hugely popular and lucrative earnings can be made to over there in playing games for a living.

The only reason, in my opinion, eSports are not deemed as spectator sports on TV or whatever in the "West" is simply because no one in the west has the balls to invest in it.
But I don't see any reason eSport could not become as popular as mainstream sport coverage if realistic simulation software was being used in any particular genre of sport.

There has been a couple of attempts to bring gaming to TV in the west, but as I've pointed out in previous posts here: Gaming is great fun if your playing the game itself, but soon gets boring for anyone watching it, and it was typical cheap TV where they took a popular console game and thought just because a lot of people had bought it that a lot of people would watch it. WRONG!
This is were watching a realistic simulation  of a sport, especially motorsport, is different, it holds your interest similar to watching the real deal. It ends up not at all about how popular the game or simulation is but starts to become a sport in itself with fans, characters and teams to support and follow through the season.

It's something that will, "I'm sure", only come from the grass roots of enthusiasts like ourselves starting to promote eSport for MotoGP, and then once it gets to a certain stage of popularity the big sponsorship from the big companies and media will start to take serious interest and in a lot of ways take over it's future.

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 04:44:28 pm
Quote from: WALKEN on May 19, 2017, 03:47:07 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on May 18, 2017, 11:05:06 am
Quote from: Hawk on May 17, 2017, 11:45:34 pm
We been saying this sort of thing will happen for years now Pib...... Do you still think online racing and championship facilities/utilities isn't a main priority for GPB?

If GPBikes was rock solid stable and V1.0 you could've stood a good chance being noticed for such an interest from these guys wanting to create online championships; still could in the future if you can speed up development of GPB.  :)

In the meantime that piece of crap(MotoGP from Milestone) is going to get all the glory and in a lot of respects ruin the foundation for realistic online motorcycle racing championships. Notice I said, "Realistic"? This is where your niche is and what you should concentrate on for the online championship capabilities and not the Gameboys that will use Milestones MotoGP. Keep it real!  ;D 8)

Hawk.


At the moment there isn't enough money around racing eSports to justify the creation of all the tracks and bikes for a full season.
So the only option for Dorna is to use a game that already has the license and all the needed content. Plus, console versions.

The real question is: how many will be interested in following that championship? Does it have a future?
eSports sustain themselves with viewers, that attract sponsors and media coverage.

What do you think?


I'll tell you what I think. Its almost down right dead and boring how many times I have mentioned to developers @   "later Climax"/Monumental/Milestone/Capcom. I practically wrote books on the success of the first 2 Climax MotoGP offerings netcode, by Shawn Hargreaves.  On GP1 (Climax) every night was like a Friday night out with your friends. The scoreboards were the carrot and the competition was insane!   

You can make the greatest simulation/game but the most important part is creating a robust netcode the way Shawn Hargreaves did. All the features where there and no one beyond Shawn capitalized on his work...

A server that runs all platforms be it pc/xbox/ps etc with resettable scoreboards. Its the drama of a collective interest and the micro social bubbles. Having your name at the top of a scoreboard is like being a mini Rossi. It allows those who take virtual racing serious to a level of competitiveness not found by simply racing on line and crashing into each other.

On NetworkChallenge.org we kept the Climax series alive for years on PC until Gamespy ended.

Even if this NEW thing they wanna do is brought to the table they will ruin it. They just don't understand that simple is best and looking back to the past is the key!   :(         


I agree with you on a lot of things you said there above WALKEN, but I'd also say that times move on and people expect more today than in yesteryears. Yes the netcode has to be rock-solid, but I think the simulation has to be realistic too and much more involved than from years gone by. Just keeping things very simple today just won't cut it in my opinion; it has to be more involved, more realistic than simple score tables to hold a viewers/spectators attention' and this is in a lot of ways now more about the spectators involvement and interest and holding their interest more than the actual competitors involvement; the more spectator involvement the more interest from sponsors and big companies, and the competitors and spectators both will reap the benefit from that involvement.

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: WALKEN on May 19, 2017, 05:12:54 pm
Hawk,

I agree about advancement. Look at Iracing, don't they have it all figured out with commentary and spectator live streaming etc?

If you truly want a broad audience then there has to be a middle ground. Where a simulation falls short, no matter how realistic it becomes you still have to allow weekend warriors to enjoy spinning around without penalty, that is reality. Those are the ones allowing us to have a fighting chance in a niche genre.

Its sort of like- You need Metallica to find Napalm Death  ;D           
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: passerBy on May 19, 2017, 05:22:12 pm
Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 11:44:17 am
Quote from: passerBy on May 19, 2017, 11:04:21 am
Have to agree with Max on this one. The world is ruled by money. Sometimes it's the need, sometimes it's sheer greed.

After the WRC license was given to Kylotonn once, Mario Kart has a good chance of becoming the official sim for KWC. Simulators are only of interest to the enthusiasts. And there's not a whole lot of enthusiasts out there... So, when you create a sim, you should get used to the idea that only a handful of people will appreciate your work. The more serious you are about the sim scene, the more respect to you, though.


The point here is: "How to make a success of online eSports, and how many viewers do we think can be attracted to watch such events".

It's not at all about how many people will actually become competitors in eSport, it's about designing a product that attracts viewers to watch. That will generate the subsequent interest of the big sponsors and media and that in turn will generate even more interest to watch the events.
The developer of the actual simulation software will benefit a lot more from the licensing contracts to the big sponsors, media and viewing rights to the events than the money they'll make from actual sales of the simulation software; actual software sales will just be a bonus for the developer for people who dream of actually being able to compete in such events, and as the industry becomes more popular, those sales will naturally increase as time goes by.

This is a totally different type of market to raw game sales, and you can't apply the typical game sales logic to how well or how popular online eSport events will become in the future.

Hawk.

Talking about the enthusiasts I didn't mean the question of obtaining ownership of the object of interest. I meant that watching other people competing in simulators would only be interesting to enthusiasts of the simulators in question. Think about it, an average person watches a GPB feed. What do they see? "Just another game, except with horrendous graphics and sounds..." How would they know what it actually means to drive a sim if they never tried to? And if they never tried to, they will never have any respect for the sport. You can tell them all you want that it's a sim, but they'll just leave looking at you suspecting you have issues... Because it's "just a game". Even if they would give it a try, they'd most likely just shrug it off an move on.

And yes, Max is right. If car sims couldn't achieve this... If iRacing is hardly known outside of certain circles... if even RL MotoGP struggles to achieve popularity (!), how in the world do you expect GPB to suddenly become a sizable attraction for the viewers?

If you ask me, what GPB is really needing now is at least some publicity. And once Piboso is done putting KRP onto Steam, I think that will be the first step in the right direction. eSports? Well... Just show a replay of a typical GPB race to someone you know who is not a simmer, but might be remotely interested in bikes and racing, then ask them if they are interested in watching feeds like this on a regular basis.

I mean, personally I like any idea that helps GPB to achieve more popularity, but we just need to be a little more realistic on this. For me personally GP Bikes is THE sim. A lot of people out there don't even care about what is a sim and why is it a big deal.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: passerBy on May 19, 2017, 05:35:24 pm
By the way, isn't the eSports broadcasting idea pretty ridiculous anyway? Not everybody can afford joining TT, WSBK or MotoGP, but almost anybody can get themselves a copy of GPB and start competing with other folks. What's the point in watching this as a broadcast when you could race yourself? Sounds like a waste of time and resources.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 05:56:29 pm
Quote from: passerBy on May 19, 2017, 05:35:24 pm
By the way, isn't the eSports broadcasting idea pretty ridiculous anyway? Not everybody can afford joining TT, WSBK or MotoGP, but almost anybody can get themselves a copy of GPB and start competing with other folks. What's the point in watching this as a broadcast when you could race yourself? Sounds like a waste of time and resources.


Well, I totally respect your point of view on that, but you also have to understand that there are people who do enjoy watching eSport events on online live streams too.  :)

All I would say is that like many sports I like to enjoy participating in myself, I also really enjoy watching them on TV too; are you telling me that you don't do the same? Not everyone will be good enough to compete at the top events in live streamed eSport; does this mean they just won't be interested in watching eSport events they enjoy on a lesser basis? Same as I enjoy playing Tennis, but I know I'll never play at Wimbledon but I still avidly watch Wimbledon on TV.
Just because one doesn't actively participate in an event doesn't mean one won't be interested in watching an event on live-stream if your interested in the outcome or support a certain team or rider, surely?

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on May 19, 2017, 07:07:03 pm
Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 03:52:29 pm
So as far as your concerned, all this vision of online eSport for MotoGP is total rubbish and would never work? Seems to me that is what your basically saying from your above replies?

What I think will fail is your vision of "let's kickstart it from fans, with an indie game developer and a true sim and the masses will come".
The Milestone/Dorna attempt stands better chances of course. Notice they didn't use kickstarter, they didin't involve the fans in the funding and they didn't pick a sim.

Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 03:52:29 pm
The Kickstarter for the laser scanned TT track(not sure what this has to do with MotoGP eSport, but anyway)
But the alternative and probably the best way to get this going, without Kickstarter, would be from what I was suggesting in my post here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=4971.msg75694#msg75694 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=4971.msg75694#msg75694)

It was here to show only that it's not enough to have a handful of passionate people (like you, me and other on this forum) to conclude "it will surely work".

Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 03:52:29 pm
"Mighty oaks grow from little acorns"

Yeah. And a marathon starts with a single step.
But doesn't mean a random guy can actually run a marathon under 2h10m just because he is motivated and optimistic about it. But if you wanna try, be my guest :)
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: passerBy on May 19, 2017, 09:11:25 pm
Quote from: Hawk on May 19, 2017, 05:56:29 pm
Quote from: passerBy on May 19, 2017, 05:35:24 pm
By the way, isn't the eSports broadcasting idea pretty ridiculous anyway? Not everybody can afford joining TT, WSBK or MotoGP, but almost anybody can get themselves a copy of GPB and start competing with other folks. What's the point in watching this as a broadcast when you could race yourself? Sounds like a waste of time and resources.

Well, I totally respect your point of view on that, but you also have to understand that there are people who do enjoy watching eSport events on online live streams too.  :)

Which makes me wondering what is it exactly that attracts them... I suppose that it's the element of a show. Maybe also the fact the eSports can be much more relatable to an average viewer. How are you going to achieve that with a bike sim? Just ask yourself. Realistically, how many viewers are going to watch a GP Bikes broadcast? How many will get out of their way, and not just click a curious YouTube link at their leisure, but will actually be waiting for the appointed time and will be watching you, guys, doing laps in GPB, rooting for someone in particular of whom they can only see the nickname.

Of course, the going of your local championships is important for you, because you are the participants. Also, you know each other pretty well (I, myself, was away from the forum for a long time, so many of the people here are new to me, and I have no intention to participate in anything but trackdays, hence "you" as opposed to "us"). But what the audience wants? Would Rossi have so many fans if the only things you could see of him were a nickname and liveries? Ok, maybe also an occasional shot in the studio and an obligatory interview.

If you want audience beyond the people of the special interest, you have to come up with something to appeal to them. And speaking from my experience being a simmer myself for a long time, I can say it's really hard to get people interested in hardcore simming. If at all possible...

QuoteAll I would say is that like many sports I like to enjoy participating in myself, I also really enjoy watching them on TV too; are you telling me that you don't do the same?

I used to... But after getting a solid Internet connection I stopped seeing TV as anything more than just an annoyance. And I also stopped caring for following competitions. It's rather a waste to follow other people's lives when you have one of your own. At least, if you don't know them personally.
But at least watching RL stuff can be fun for one reason or for the other. Watching eSports? Well... I remember there was a record of a broadcast of two teams of DCS pilots flying missions against one another. That was the only thing I felt like I could actually be watching live. But then again, it still lacked something... After giving it a thought, if there was a real life competition like that, I'd rather watch that. Same with bikes, I'd rather go back to watching WSBK and MotoGP (not to mention TT).

QuoteNot everyone will be good enough to compete at the top events in live streamed eSport; does this mean they just won't be interested in watching eSport events they enjoy on a lesser basis? Same as I enjoy playing Tennis, but I know I'll never play at Wimbledon but I still avidly watch Wimbledon on TV.

You said that yourself. You don't watch people playing a tennis sim. You enjoy watching Wimbledon on TV. And if you have a choice of different real life motorcycling events, why in the world would you opt to choose watching GP Bikes instead? Of course, let's pretend you don't belong to the forum and have no attachment to the community... What would make you watch GPB over real life motosports?

That said, I think I have an idea what would make me watch it... If the winner would have a chance at a spot in an RL MotoGP team (or at least Moto2). But I have a vested interest :) I want simulators to get rid of their "gaming" past and to be accepted as a full fledged training tool. Games are games, sims are sims.

QuoteJust because one doesn't actively participate in an event doesn't mean one won't be interested in watching an event on live-stream if your interested in the outcome or support a certain team or rider, surely?

For that, the one in question needs to develop a certain attachment to that team or rider first. With eSports and sims in particular, not sure how that is going to happen.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: vali_grad on May 20, 2017, 02:39:47 pm
Quote from: passerBy on May 18, 2017, 06:45:29 pm
Quote from: vali_grad on May 18, 2017, 05:13:18 pm
personally I can compare the learning curve & experience of gp bikes with fsx

Rather, with DCS :)
FSX' physics is close to nonexistent... And when you go direct steering, it becomes "DCS with helicopters" (which is great, if you ask me)

I brought the Fsx in discussion because of its steep start , and I thought many can relate because even today, 11 years after release you can download the trial version :)
for me DCS (not LockOn series) is easier than FSX, a mega ton of fun after some control/graphics tweak  :)
I hate the helicopters in the game as role/design/versatility (DCS), was hyphed about Gazelle but they messed it up and abandoned it .
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: loinen on May 21, 2017, 12:44:12 am
Quite disappointing news because of game selected and mode (i would watch full races if they happen). PS only format doesn't make me glad as well but.. finally some big guys pay attention to virtual moto racing and this is great and their choice seems very reasonable: as far as i see PS moto guys are very active at many games, MvA, MXGP, Ride, MotoGP, while on PC i dunno any game which have no problem with finding who to compete except MX Simulator. Hopefully with more attention and promotion of any bike racing game situation in whole will get better.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: RaDiCaL on May 21, 2017, 01:03:25 am
GPbikes should be included in the iracing.com Lobby with official Servers and licenses and many Players would notice and finally Play that awesome game.
Its not for the casual Players but iracing isnt too and it is great.
GPbikes is the only bike Simulation and i think many Players are looking for something like that...BUT...not for empty Servers and a few Players sometimes on it.
My two Cents..

-Michael
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: passerBy on May 22, 2017, 03:27:45 am
Quote from: vali_grad on May 20, 2017, 02:39:47 pm
Quote from: passerBy on May 18, 2017, 06:45:29 pm
Quote from: vali_grad on May 18, 2017, 05:13:18 pm
personally I can compare the learning curve & experience of gp bikes with fsx

Rather, with DCS :)
FSX' physics is close to nonexistent... And when you go direct steering, it becomes "DCS with helicopters" (which is great, if you ask me)

I brought the Fsx in discussion because of its steep start , and I thought many can relate because even today, 11 years after release you can download the trial version :)

Not sure what you mean by the steep start... Probably the interactions with ATC?

Quotefor me DCS (not LockOn series) is easier than FSX, a mega ton of fun after some control/graphics tweak  :)

Easier? Only in that the physics involved feels more natural, not just "following the rails" of FSX. And if you want more avionics complexity, try the Viggen or the Warthog.

QuoteI hate the helicopters in the game as role/design/versatility (DCS), was hyphed about Gazelle but they messed it up and abandoned it .

Have you tried the Gazelle yourself? They abandoned it for sure, but it's not in such a bad shape, actually. Still miles better than any other helicopter in any other sim. My personal fav is the Huey, however. That thing is just THE helicopter to have.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: PiBoSo on August 07, 2017, 02:46:15 pm

The fastest lap of the first MotoGP eSport round:
http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2017/08/07/challenge-1-best-lap-winners/236001

Almost 6 seconds faster than the pole time  ::)
The bike "dynamics" is painful to watch  :(
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Warlock on August 07, 2017, 03:03:36 pm
It's just ridiculous.

Hope at silverstone they can watch some real physics in action on onboard view
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Sim UK on August 07, 2017, 04:34:49 pm
Quote from: Warlock on August 07, 2017, 03:03:36 pm
It's just ridiculous.

Hope at silverstone they can watch some real physics in action on onboard view


Oh you know they will !! (as long as I don't have to ride :-) )
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: doubledragoncc on August 07, 2017, 07:32:38 pm
Quote from: Cory_Hayes.11 on May 19, 2017, 11:39:51 am
Interesting reading all of this, if GPB ( or any motorbike game for that matter ) were to be an eSport, wouldn't the people competing need to be using something other than a gamepad as well for it to stand out as an actual simulator instead of a game like MotoGP?

( this might not be relevant right now in the discussion but it is something that would have to be a factor )


This is why Dorna has asked me for the demo. My systems are not designed to be a REAL motion simulation system but a system anyone can have at home, thats the big difference and what Dorna wants.

Give me the money and I will build a real rig but for now its bare bones build it in my bedroom stuff lol.

DD
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on August 08, 2017, 10:20:48 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on August 07, 2017, 02:46:15 pm
The bike "dynamics" is painful to watch  :(

If the bike wasn't leaning I'd say their goal was to simulate scalextric bikes dynamics :)
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: PiBoSo on August 08, 2017, 10:46:27 am
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 08, 2017, 10:20:48 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on August 07, 2017, 02:46:15 pm
The bike "dynamics" is painful to watch  :(

If the bike wasn't leaning I'd say their goal was to simulate scalextric bikes dynamics :)


There is a scalextric leaning bike, so the simulation is spot on!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojdy8UQNClE
:P
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: PiBoSo on August 10, 2017, 10:23:32 pm

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/40875324

:o
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on August 11, 2017, 09:13:13 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on August 10, 2017, 10:23:32 pm

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/40875324

:o


Well there you go Pib...... Don't miss opportunities by disregarding what is to become a massive part of the video gaming world in the near future! Take esport seriously by developing and  preparing for it to happen! Make sure you get in there at the ground level while it's still in it's infancy! ;D ;D

I know this sort of thing tends to come across as all a bit of a joke right now. Lol. But that will all change when serious backing and money become involved, and we see that starting to happen now with big companies and sports teams starting to have a dabble to test the waters, so to speak. Let's just hope they do it the right way to attract mass audiences.  :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: GP500 on August 12, 2017, 03:06:20 am
Baron de Coubertin would probably be quite disappointed.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on August 12, 2017, 08:53:41 am
Quote from: Guiga on August 12, 2017, 03:06:20 am
Baron de Coubertin would probably be quite disappointed.

He has been long forgotten ... BMX instead of greco-roman wrestling  :o
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: PiBoSo on August 23, 2017, 10:27:14 pm

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/formula-1-announces-esports-world-championship-943061/

They will use the officially licensed game, like Dorna is doing.
Makes sense... It would be extremely difficult to find new sponsors to fund development of a dedicated software in addition to covering the event costs.
Also, having a different simulation for eSport would negatively impact the public image of the officially licensed game, that would be immediately demoted to kids' toy, in turn devaluing the ( very expensive ) license.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: HornetMaX on August 23, 2017, 10:48:26 pm
Can't really call that a big surprise, can we ?
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: GP500 on August 24, 2017, 01:05:26 am
We'll see if that one will stick. FIFA and DotA 2 hand out plenty of money but they make plenty of additional money as people buy ingame items to be more competitive in both.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on August 24, 2017, 06:06:25 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on August 23, 2017, 10:27:14 pm

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/formula-1-announces-esports-world-championship-943061/

They will use the officially licensed game, like Dorna is doing.
Makes sense... It would be extremely difficult to find new sponsors to fund development of a dedicated software in addition to covering the event costs.
Also, having a different simulation for eSport would negatively impact the public image of the officially licensed game, that would be immediately demoted to kids' toy, in turn devaluing the ( very expensive ) license.


I think the word is politics Pib and, as always, politics and sport don't mix well..... Shame there isn't someone in there who's got the authority, and more important, the balls to do the right thing for esport.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: doubledragoncc on August 24, 2017, 09:34:49 am
Why do you think I am meeting Dorna, they WANT to do it the right way, BUT they only had MotoGP to use..............Until this weekend!!!!

;D

DD
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: PiBoSo on May 24, 2018, 10:02:09 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFt_n1g8aL8
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: KG_03 on May 25, 2018, 06:40:49 am
I must say that I really liked MotoGP esport. It was quite enjoyable to watch.
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: matty0l215 on May 25, 2018, 07:00:42 am
Im all for esports. Especcially bike racing but this just seems a bit artificial  ::)
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 25, 2018, 09:37:20 am
Yeah and after all our hard work and time(Thanks Matty n Teeds) Jorge never got back after the meeting in Spain with manufacturers.

Dorna must have to decided to stick to gaming and not going the sim direction as they said at Silverstone MotoGP last year.

VERY disappointed in Dorna for wasting all our time and money.

DD
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: matty0l215 on May 25, 2018, 11:48:57 am
Thats Business for you unfortunetly....

Still we had a great time ;D
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 25, 2018, 02:46:36 pm
Seems to me that the governing bodies are sticking with the games that already have the Official series licenses, iE: Milestone for MotoGP and Codemasters for the F1 series; both not simulators but both designed and aimed mainly at the massive console market. Just tells me that they are more interested in number of bodies they can reach rather than what would be best for the long term progression of esport.... What a bunch of short-sighted "Knobheads" they are!

I can only believe that they have done their research and it's telling them that the players want to use an app that isn't difficult to master knor either takes long hours of dedication to become proficient and competitive with..... Says a lot about the majority of the current generation of gamers doesn't it! It's got console gamer written all over it!! LAZY TW*TS!! :P >:(

Just justifies my thoughts from the very first time they started to release these game consoles: That they'd do more harm than good for the computer gaming community as a whole; from exclusive console only titles to now ruining a fantastic opportunity for building computer sims into fantastic eSport platforms.... Total short-sightedness in the extreme!

Let's just hope that eventually the governing bodies will come to their senses and want to change the apps used to a more serious simulator rather than a kiddies game in the not too distant future..... That's of course if they are at all really involved in the actual organisation of eSports rather than just letting the developers organise it with just their periodic oversight? I think this is what is probably happening so the governing bodies don't have to do much at all but can take credit at the same time... More LAZY TW*TS!!  :P

@DD: You'll probably also find that they won't allow any other controller except the official Playstation/Xbox gamepad controller for the MotoGP Esport series too? I hope not, but it wouldn't surprised me mate..... Seems money and power wins again... Great shame for the long term future of eSports in my opinion.  :(

Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: speedfr on May 25, 2018, 05:22:38 pm
@Hawk : You are right obviously but, hey, what did you expect ?  ;D

I'm not surprise at all. I'm just realistic on my fellows...
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: guigui404 on May 25, 2018, 05:46:40 pm
I've never tried F1 2017 but I've seen many many videos , could you please correct me if i'm wrong but , looks to me a lot more simulation than a milestone game ( however it's quite stupid to compare f1 and motogp games but still )
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 25, 2018, 06:21:18 pm
Quote from: speedfr on May 25, 2018, 05:22:38 pm
@Hawk : You are right obviously but, hey, what did you expect ?  ;D

I'm not surprise at all. I'm just realistic on my fellows...


Very true Speedy, but it just makes my blood boil when you realise what a cock-up Milestone and Dorna will soon make of it all when it could be SO much bigger and better.... Where is their ambition and passion for eSports?  :)

Quote from: guigui404 on May 25, 2018, 05:46:40 pm
I've never tried F1 2017 but I've seen many many videos , could you please correct me if i'm wrong but , looks to me a lot more simulation than a milestone game ( however it's quite stupid to compare f1 and motogp games but still )


Don't let the eye-candy fool you mate, it's nothing like as realistic as the likes of rFactor2, not even close, it's very simcade in nature.  :)
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 25, 2018, 07:33:40 pm
I no longer wory about what I say when it comes to Dorna, they lied to me and the rest of the crew with me that weekend and never followed up on GPBikes as I told them and they said they would, their loss.

There are other things that are WIP.............................

I will always push GPBikes......nuff said lol

DD
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: JohnnoNinja on May 25, 2018, 08:28:25 pm
Guys, simulation is a nice market. It just doesn't make enough money and is therefore not attractive enough for those company's. If you want to reach a large amount of players, you've to make the game easy enough so the majority can play it. If you want to reach a lot of viewers for e-sports broadcast, eye candy is more important then physics. GpBikes isn't for the majority of players and milestone games look a lot nicer. It's not realistic to think that GpBikes is the first that comes to mind for e-sports at the moment in my opinion. We may think GpBikes is the best out there, but the world doesn't agree ;) Not saying it can't change in the future, but GpBikes has to improve further. And for Piboso to compete with Milestone (bigger team, more resources)  is, let's say, difficult :)

DD, you never know where it may lead to. Maybe Dorna isn't interested at the moment, but if GpBikes gets better and a bigger player base in the future... things might chance... and perhaps Dorna remembers what you did at Silverstone and change their mind;) 

In the mean time enjoy GpBikes!

Oh and simcade isn't a bad thing. Remember GT academy? People got to race in real endurance races after they won. Might be easier with car games then motorcycle games though ;D
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 25, 2018, 09:24:30 pm
JN thanks but to be honest, I dont work with companies that cant be bothered to answer an email for months and wasted my time and money plus that of my friends. Dorna disrespected our hard work and efforts, I have lost all respect for them, thats how I am. Fuck the money, I do it for passion and thats the only way I will do it.

Thank you Piboso for the best and only true sim there is. My loyalty is here.

DD
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: JohnnoNinja on May 26, 2018, 02:58:36 am
Yeah, I do understand you DD. That is disrespectfull...
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: KG_03 on May 26, 2018, 07:59:44 pm
I was very excited about all that even at Silversone last year, but in my deep thought I didn't believe it will work out. Dorna is a bunch of businessmen and all they care is about money. Milestone has been making MotoGP for very long time and giving it to another company may not give the reward that they need. Still its official games and people despite complaining about Milestone they will buy their games.

I had high hopes that maybe Kyloton will show something mind blowing with IoM TT game but they disappointed with physics and other aspects and still not sure if they will want to follow motorcycle games projects as most people is not reviewing the game good. Unfortunately... still its great we have PiBoSo who make a great game in cooperation with community and lets hope that he will have motivation for a long time.

I believe thate are still a lot of people who never heard of GPBikes and who would like to try it out... anyway by looking at comments on steam most of people are customers who want easy and unrealistic game play. I even know real motorcyclists who demant simple physics as they say "if you want real physics in the game than go and ride in real life"...simulations are earning that much like simple games :-(
Title: Re: eMotorsports?
Post by: Hawk on May 26, 2018, 11:10:35 pm
I've always tried to convince people to stop buying Milestones MotoGP, but to no avail..... So in my opinion you all reap the results of your actions in continuing to buy that rubbish.

The only way to stop them is to not buy their products and tell people why; not just because they don't give us what we want, but also because they will no doubt ruin any attempt at getting motorcycle eSports well established...... It's all about people power!  :P
Trouble is that we live with a generation of brain-dead consumers who's main attraction seems to be eye-candy and official licenses.... So go ahead and continue buying this rubbish and reap your reward guys! :P

Never say I didn't tell you all so since years past!! ::) :P