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GP Bikes => Suggestions and wishlist => Topic started by: HornetMaX on January 19, 2014, 10:31:06 PM

Title: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 19, 2014, 10:31:06 PM
Hi all,
in an attempt to make it easier for Piboso to read through the "Suggestions and Wishlist" section, I'd like to try to have one sticky post with a brief description of each suggestion/wish. If you 'd like something to appear here, make a post in the "Suggestions and wishlist" section: if it gathers enough consensus, I'll transfer it here.

The order is strictly chronological (so that Piboso can only look at the recent items).
Once this is a bit consolidated, I may want to organize it in sections (i.e. graphics, gameplay, modding etc).


Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Arvoss on January 19, 2014, 10:41:40 PM
I had a similar thread on the old forum, dream changelog. Everyone could reply on that thread and I edited the changelog. It was easy and clear :D
My changelog:
New: Force reset after 3 seconds
New: Ghost
New: Jumpstart = start race from pit
New: Highside animation
New: Crash animation
New: Crash damage
New: AI
New: Stats page in the game
New: Personal stats (Time played, favorite track, crashes, favorite bike,...)
New: Voice chat
Fix: Core.exe crash
Fix: Weird chain bug
Fix: Lag jumpstart bug
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: iVolution on January 19, 2014, 11:16:57 PM
Quote from: Arvoss on January 19, 2014, 10:41:40 PM
I had a similar thread on the old forum, dream changelog. Everyone could reply on that thread and I edited the changelog. It was easy and clear :D ......
You are already breaking rule 1 and 2 with that post. Max said.... no vague discriptions (crash animation, highside animation) and reasonable amount of consensus (ghost, force restart, AI, voice chat).
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 20, 2014, 12:26:09 AM
From Arvoss post:

Ghost and AI are indeed pretty popular demands, even if we already know Piboso's opinion on them.

Force restart/respawn stuff: let's see what people think in the other thread.

Jumpstart: create a thread and let's see opinons (I recall somebody even proposed to have black flag not removing the rider from track, like in real life).

Highside/crash animations: eyecandy in my opinion. Anyway v1 will have a new rider model hence animations are likely to change anyway.

Stats page in game: why not ? But also why yes ? (you can Alt-tab and be happy).

Personal stats: not for me. What's next ? Direct link to facebooK ? :)

Voice chat: majority was against it if I recall correctly.

Fix core.exe crash: Nice idea dude !! You're a few millimeters away from being banned from this forum :)

Chain bug/lag jumpstart bug (no idea what this is): these are bugs, different stuff.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BozoCRO on January 25, 2014, 10:03:54 AM
my controller (Speedlink strike gamepad) rumbles in the game  :o
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: PeterV on January 25, 2014, 10:32:41 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 19, 2014, 10:31:06 PM
Hi all,
in an attempt to make it easier for Piboso to read through the "Suggestions and Wishlist" section, I'd like to try to have one sticky post with a brief description of each suggestion/wish. If you 'd like something to appear here, make a post in the "Suggestions and wishlist" section: if it gathers enough consensus, I'll transfer it here.

Good list and understandable to read, maybe post topic 17 and 18 are the same?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:04:56 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 25, 2014, 10:03:54 AM
my controller (Speedlink strike gamepad) rumbles in the game  :o

Really ? In which situations ?

Quote from: PeterV on January 25, 2014, 10:32:41 AM
Good list and understandable to read, maybe post topic 17 and 18 are the same?

Fixed, thx PeterV !.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on January 25, 2014, 12:06:50 PM
This respawn issue: If you are going to have an immediate respawn function whether off or on track, I guarantee most riders, especially in a race, will not abide by an honourable code of making sure that they wait while others pass to safely get back on track. My personal opinion; if your gonna allow respawn then it should be back in the pit lane were riders can filter back onto the track relatively safely.

Better still, if you fall during a race, then that riders race is over(DNF), period! :P
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 25, 2014, 12:06:50 PM
This respawn issue: If you are going to have an immediate respawn function whether off or on track, I guarantee most riders, especially in a race, will not abide by an honourable code of making sure that they wait while others pass to safely get back on track.
Then they will fall again. Hopefully the next time they won't do it again. And ban is always an option :)

In any case, if you respawn OFF track, it's hard to get back on, so they'll have to do this carefully anyway. That makes me think the whole thing ("no-wait" respawn off track) should be made mandatory even in practice (so that people can get used to this) and maybe not optional at all. By "no-wait" I mean not waiting fo rthe others to pass by: a "penalty" delay can be added for the time to pick up the bike, remove grass and sand from the helmet :)

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on January 25, 2014, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 25, 2014, 12:06:50 PM
This respawn issue: If you are going to have an immediate respawn function whether off or on track, I guarantee most riders, especially in a race, will not abide by an honourable code of making sure that they wait while others pass to safely get back on track.
Then they will fall again. Hopefully the next time they won't do it again. And ban is always an option :)

In any case, if you respawn OFF track, it's hard to get back on, so they'll have to do this carefully anyway. That makes me think the whole thing ("no-wait" respawn off track) should be made mandatory even in practice (so that people can get used to this) and maybe not optional at all. By "no-wait" I mean not waiting fo rthe others to pass by: a "penalty" delay can be added for the time to pick up the bike, remove grass and sand from the helmet :)

MaX.

If GP Bikes respawn off track, you'd be concentrating so much on not falling over again until you reached the track that other riders coming up on your position would be totally ignored(Unintentionally of course, and this might be a different story if the sound was sorted out so you could judge how close or far away other riders were in relation to your own position), and if you were respawned in the sand, it would be impossible to get back on track, you'd just keep falling over again and again. Lol

A ban for offenders is an option, but that's no consolation to the poor guy who has maybe lost a vital championship race because of it? Also a ban could really piss people off if it genuinely wasn't an intentional act. I know I wouldn't want to win or lose a championship due to an incident like that.

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that you either have to respawn in the pits, or keep it as it is to be fair to other riders that are on track. after all, if a real rider by some miracle is able to race his damaged bike again he has to wait for riders to pass by before he can re-enter the race. This is as it is now. So if you want keep the respawn then why not just except it as it is?

In my opinion, GP Bikes is a motorcycle racing sim(The very best there's ever been), respawn is for FPS and console gamers. At the very most it should only be allowed for practice sessions. :P ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 03:06:34 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 25, 2014, 01:37:11 PM
If GP Bikes respawn off track, you'd be concentrating so much on not falling over again until you reached the track that other riders coming up on your position would be totally ignored(Unintentionally of course, and this might be a different story if the sound was sorted out so you could judge how close or far away other riders were in relation to your own position),
Riding on grass is not that difficult. Anyway, that's the same for everything: people will just hit you trying to overtake you at any cost, so what would you do about that ? Have a collision-less game to solve the problem ? I guess not.

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 25, 2014, 01:37:11 PMand if you were respawned in the sand, it would be impossible to get back on track, you'd just keep falling over again and again. Lol
That's false: you can walk the bike out of the sand, like in reality. You can try it now.
It may be a bit annoying, so respawn on grass but not on sand could be an option. But if you are really on the sim side, if you fall in the sand and you can continue, you continue from the sand ...

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 25, 2014, 01:37:11 PM
A ban for offenders is an option, but that's no consolation to the poor guy who has maybe lost a vital championship race because of it? Also a ban could really piss people off if it genuinely wasn't an intentional act. I know I wouldn't want to win or lose a championship due to an incident like that.
If you're riding a championship that is so important to you, most likely the riders in that competition are not casual GPB players.
Also, it's like in real life: you can always lose a championship due to an idiot. Not a lot can be done.

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 25, 2014, 01:37:11 PM
The more I think about it, the more I conclude that you either have to respawn in the pits, or keep it as it is to be fair to other riders that are on track. after all, if a real rider by some miracle is able to race his damaged bike again he has to wait for riders to pass by before he can re-enter the race. This is as it is now. So if you want keep the respawn then why not just except it as it is?
Because on some track and with many riders you will spend a lot of time waiting (in extreme cases you may never be allowed to come back on track).

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 25, 2014, 01:37:11 PM
In my opinion, GP Bikes is a motorcycle racing sim(The very best there's ever been), respawn is for FPS and console gamers. At the very most it should only be allowed for practice sessions. :P ;D

That wouldn't bother me that much, but I do appreciate others may be very pissed off. Without counting that in some occasions, even in real life you can pick your bike up and go back to track.

Also, if you are so much on the sim side, why don't you accept the idea that you have to trust the other riders no to do stupid things ? In real life, if somebody gets back on track at the wrong time then ...

It's like that in other (competitive) racing games: you have to follow rules and you eventually have penalties, but you don't have mechanisms that prevent you from doing silly things when these mechanisms spoil  part of the fun or of the sim character of the game.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on January 25, 2014, 07:32:11 PM
@Max: All I'm saying, Max, is that I would just hate for GP Bikes to be spoiled like many other simulations in the name of making it more "fun". It's already fun. Of course there is room for improvements as we all know, but let's try steer them more towards reality than arcady gimmicks disguised under the intention of making things more fun.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 25, 2014, 07:32:11 PM
@Max: All I'm saying, Max, is that I would just hate for GP Bikes to be spoiled like many other simulations in the name of making it more "fun". It's already fun. Of course there is room for improvements as we all know, but let's try steer them more towards reality than arcady gimmicks disguised under the intention of making things more fun.
That's exactly the point I do't get: respawning ON the track is arcady. Not being able to respawn when you want (but only when GPB decides you are allowed to) is arcady.
IRL you respawn (admittedly, when you can) OFF the track and when you want, no ?

I would tend to think that "hardcore" sim supporters would be more for "respawn off the track an under your responsibility" than for "respawn on the track and when GPB decides it is OK for you to get back on track 'cause no other rider is around".

Where's the catch ?

What are the opinions of other hardcore simmers ? (I may have invented a new word here :) )

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: iVolution on January 25, 2014, 11:35:22 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
What are the opinions of other hardcore simmers ? (I may have invented a new word here :) )
After some internal consideration, I think that respawning off the track might be a good idea but i see some problems with it.

1.When respawning off the track in a corner, the possibility exists that you have to make an extra sharp turn to get back on the track. When doing this from the gravel or a banked surface, it might be pretty hard to get back on the track without falling again.
2. Not all tracks have room to spawn off the track. I can see how this might create a new "bug" when you are respawned behind the boarding or tyre walls. It might take a lot of work to establish the off-track surfaces for each track that you can spawn on.
3. Some people might be too busy getting back on the track that they did not take the time to look behind them. I can imagine that it is pretty annoying when you have to dodge the slower riding respawned bikes
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: iVolution on January 25, 2014, 11:35:22 PM
After some internal consideration, I think that respawning off the track might be a good idea but i see some problems with it.

1.When respawning off the track in a corner, the possibility exists that you have to make an extra sharp turn to get back on the track. When doing this from the gravel or a banked surface, it might be pretty hard to get back on the track without falling again.
Gravel maybe it's too radical, let's say you respawn on grass. If there's a slope or a sharp turn and you are unsure if you can make it without falling, just walk the bike. I'm not sure everybody understands what I mean with "walk the bike": in the settings screen/Input 2 panel there are two buttons for "Low speed" ... they are meant for that !

Quote from: iVolution on January 25, 2014, 11:35:22 PM
2. Not all tracks have room to spawn off the track. I can see how this might create a new "bug" when you are respawned behind the boarding or tyre walls. It might take a lot of work to establish the off-track surfaces for each track that you can spawn on.
Agreed, but it would be up to Piboso to solve that (eventually) in the best manner.

Quote from: iVolution on January 25, 2014, 11:35:22 PM
3. Some people might be too busy getting back on the track that they did not take the time to look behind them. I can imagine that it is pretty annoying when you have to dodge the slower riding respawned bikes
That's the very reasons why you enjoy racing with your RTH guys: you know they are educated riders :)

Please don't misunderstand me: I'm arguing the thing here, but if it does not gather enough consensus I will not push it to the wishlist thread.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Warlock on January 26, 2014, 12:02:57 AM
 "respawn off the track an under your responsibility"     \m/  :)

Also respawn at the point you are, not at the point you fell

Only hoping we can 'teach' people to be responsible about entering the track again.

Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: iVolution on January 26, 2014, 12:13:05 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:56:03 PM
if you can't make it without falling, just walk the bike.
Yes that's true, but I doubt if anybody is going to try that in a race since everybody will be trying to cut their losses.

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:56:03 PM
That's the very reasons why you enjoy racing with your RTH guys: you know they are educated riders :)
Yes, some of us are  ;) :D

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:56:03 PM
Please don't misunderstand me: I'm arguing the thing here, but if it does not gather enough consensus I will not push it to the wishlist thread.
And I am trying to objectively see what could go wrong by implementing it. I am still very much in favour of your idea, as long as  Piboso makes sure that all the issues have been taken care of. If he thinks that it might be a bit too much work to properly implement it, I think it would be better to leave it just as it is. Although difficult, the best way to prevent respawn issues, is not to fall off in the first place  ;D.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 26, 2014, 12:22:10 AM
Quote from: Warlock on January 26, 2014, 12:02:57 AM
Also respawn at the point you are, not at the point you fell
You mean where the bike stops after sliding ? This has been removed (it was in beta3 and previous betas) because it can cause troubles: if you fall right before a checkpoint and your bike slides after the checkpoint without crossing it, you have will have a penalty or a DNF as you missed a checkpoint.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on January 26, 2014, 01:01:19 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
That's exactly the point I do't get: respawning ON the track is arcady. Not being able to respawn when you want (but only when GPB decides you are allowed to) is arcady.
IRL you respawn (admittedly, when you can) OFF the track and when you want, no ?
No, you've got the point, Max. Respawning is arcady. I probably don't explain myself very well, but my overall thoughts on this matter would be to leave respawn as it is now for practice/test and qualy sessions, but for races, if you fall then your race is over, no respawn. At least then people could practice as much as they want with the respawn to get some track continuity while learning/practicing.
I only argue for other solutions above simply because I know that a radical change now would not be a viable option(People have got too used to the respawn feature in races, arcady as it is)

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
I would tend to think that "hardcore" sim supporters would be more for "respawn off the track an under your responsibility" than for "respawn on the track and when GPB decides it is OK for you to get back on track 'cause no other rider is around".

Where's the catch ?

Hardcore simmers would surely not want respawn at all? If you fall, then you fall and start back in the garage or pits; this would be hardcore,

In fact I think it was Ian I saw suggest to have an option in the settings to turn on and off the respawn function? Quite a good idea, I think. ;D Though it would also be good for an option to just have respawn in practice and qualy also, or just for practice. Could be done via a menue options list in the settings. Surely this would satisfy everyone about this respawn feature?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 26, 2014, 01:07:25 AM
OK understood. I personally think that the "fall = pits/DNF" should be an option in GPB.

However I fear that it would be used rarely (which is not a problem at all, as the feature is really easy to implement): you were concerned about noobs getting back on track without being careful and trashing your race, how much concerned you should be about noobs just hitting you and ending your race ? That will happen much more often than the "back on track" situation ...

But again, I'm for the "fall = pits/DNF" option, it makes sense. It's when this option is set to off that I'd like to see the respawn thing changed.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Warlock on January 26, 2014, 01:09:29 AM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 26, 2014, 01:01:19 AM
Hardcore simmers would surely not want respawn at all? If you fall, then you fall and start back in the garage or pits; this would be hardcore,

This is hardcore but unreallistic, many times you can go back to the track after a fall, IRL. If the bike is broken or rider injured then you must go to pits.

Quote from: HornetMaX on January 26, 2014, 12:22:10 AM
You mean where the bike stops after sliding ? This has been removed (it was in beta3 and previous betas) because it can cause troubles: if you fall right before a checkpoint and your bike slides after the checkpoint without crossing it, you have will have a penalty or a DNF as you missed a checkpoint.

Yes i know, but if we are talking about realism..... maybe the checkpoint stuff should somehow be fixed or redesigned (i don't know how it works, just a thought)
I dont like how it is now, but i can live with it.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 26, 2014, 01:24:27 AM
Quote from: Warlock on January 26, 2014, 01:09:29 AM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 26, 2014, 01:01:19 AM
Hardcore simmers would surely not want respawn at all? If you fall, then you fall and start back in the garage or pits; this would be hardcore,

This is hardcore but unreallistic, many times you can go back to the track after a fall, IRL. If the bike is broken or rider injured then you must go to pits.
That could be taken into account if a simplified crash damage model is introduced as suggested by Stout: big crash = to pit, small crash = respawn. Seems easy enough.

Quote from: Warlock on January 26, 2014, 01:09:29 AM

Yes i know, but if we are talking about realism..... maybe the checkpoint stuff should somehow be fixed or redesigned (i don't know how it works, just a thought)
I dont like how it is now, but i can live with it.
It could be made smarter: you fall before the checkpoint and the bikes ends up after it --> you're not penalized.
There's a tiny chance people will use that for cheating, but no big deal I think, especially if you respawn off track.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on January 26, 2014, 01:42:39 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 26, 2014, 01:07:25 AM
OK understood. I personally think that the "fall = pits/DNF" should be an option in GPB.

However I fear that it would be used rarely (which is not a problem at all, as the feature is really easy to implement): you were concerned about noobs getting back on track without being careful and trashing your race, how much concerned you should be about noobs just hitting you and ending your race ? That will happen much more often than the "back on track" situation ...

But again, I'm for the "fall = pits/DNF" option, it makes sense. It's when this option is set to off that I'd like to see the respawn thing changed.

MaX.

Yes. Noobs hitting you would be a concern, but it would be a case of just being very careful when approaching a inexperienced rider and making sure that you overtake them in a sensible place rather than rushing into a corner together knowing that the inexperienced rider could well take you out simply because of their lack of skill and experience. When people know that there is no respawn feature to rely on, I think you would see a whole new attitude to the racing style of riders, knowing that if they fall then it's race over.
It will help greatly when the rider/bike collision model has been sorted better, so that when you just touch another rider you don't automatically fall off the bike as it is now.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Warlock on January 26, 2014, 02:28:07 AM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 26, 2014, 01:42:39 AM
Yes. Noobs hitting you would be a concern, but it would be a case of just being very careful when approaching a inexperienced rider and making sure that you overtake them in a sensible place rather than rushing into a corner together knowing that the inexperienced rider could well take you out simply because of their lack of skill and experience.

Thats exactly how i already do it, despite the lost distance with the riders ahead of them, i prefer not to crash the noobie, who can feel like he is bothering (bad for get new people to races). Most times they crash themselves due the pressure of a fast rider behind, then i have free room  ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: nuovaic on January 26, 2014, 08:46:21 AM
I would be for respawn as it is in practice - a lot of fun in GP bikes is meeting new riders in a practice session and having an impromptu 'race', where if one goes down most other guys will wait to resume battle.
But in qualifying and race, ideally I would be for realism. That means crash in qualifying = respawn in pits. Crash in race and your out. A year or 2 ago they implemented this rule in BSB - no return to track. Yet I suspect this could take a lot of fun out of it and make every race stressful! Imagine starting a race of noobs, race over at the first corner...
Or at the very least, crash and respawn in pits.
However, until Piboso finishes this sim and we can finally see how difficult completing a race without crashing is, it's going to be hard to decide and probably best left as is.

Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Warlock on January 26, 2014, 09:53:04 AM
Agree, the system could have levels of realism,

1 supercrash= pit , else respawn
2 big crash=pit,  else respawn
3  crash=pit,  slow corner lowside= resp
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 26, 2014, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 26, 2014, 01:42:39 AM
Yes. Noobs hitting you would be a concern, but it would be a case of just being very careful when approaching a inexperienced rider and making sure that you overtake them in a sensible place
Except often it will be them crashing into you trying to overtake you, not the opposite. And in these cases there's not a lot you can do.

Quote from: nuovaic on January 26, 2014, 08:46:21 AM
However, until Piboso finishes this sim and we can finally see how difficult completing a race without crashing is, it's going to be hard to decide and probably best left as is.

That's a very valid remark. However, if we wait for it to be finished then we're a bit late ;) Anyway, if there's an option, we can keep it switched off if necessary.

So, just to recap what we've all said:
That looks like just 2 new parameters in a server .ini:
Does this summarize it ?

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: PeterV on January 26, 2014, 11:44:09 AM
I think so yes, it doesn't have to be more complicated  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on January 26, 2014, 12:14:33 PM
Sounds good to me, Max. ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Stout Johnson on January 26, 2014, 12:17:20 PM
yeah pretty much MaX. I especially like the idea of bike reset off the track please - it has 2 major advantages:
- that way instant reset would be no problem as you couldnt obstruct people on track
- way more realistic (you would lose more time by crashing as irl where you lose time by setting up the bike, restarting dead engine etc...)

But I would like to propose 1 modification to your proposal:

I would like to see  crashes that clearly would result in a "DNF"  (e.g. hitting a wall head-on at high-speed) to be handled that way in GPB - hitting a wall straight-on with high speed and reset just a split-second later and resume the race as if nothing happened is just plain arcade-ish and does not fit the overall sim approach. I feel that this would reach an almost 100% consensus among GPB riders as they are seeking at least a minimal amount of realism (otherwise they would be playing the famous arcade games we all know ;) )

so I would propose it mandatory to have respawn turned off in Race Events (for practice or hotlapping I dont care) - in order to not make it not too hard, just make the impact threshold VERY High... so only crashes that clearly would result in a "DNF" irl will be handled that way in GPB ("DNF" / "Respawn in pits"). If no g-force levels are computed then an impact threshold based on speed of the crash could be used. This would be the standard setting. To satisfy hardcore sim seekers (like me :P) make it optional to allow lower threshold limits for "DNF" / "Respawn in pits".

I strongly recommend this as this would add to the overall sim feeling without leaving anyone behind as only high-speed crashes are excluded to race-on.
What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 26, 2014, 01:59:08 PM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 26, 2014, 12:17:20 PM
But I would like to propose 1 modification to your proposal:
Not sure I understand in where your proposed modification lies. You mean I should do this :

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Warlock on January 26, 2014, 02:24:43 PM
i think he is talking about races, so already included in your recap.  :)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Stout Johnson on January 26, 2014, 02:57:23 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 26, 2014, 01:59:08 PM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 26, 2014, 12:17:20 PM
But I would like to propose 1 modification to your proposal:
Not sure I understand in where your proposed modification lies. You mean I should do this :

  • respawn type: always, not in races, never
  • big crash threshold: whichever scale or maybe crash threshold in gs or Kmh of the impact or whatever

MaX.

exactly! (just felt I had to explain it in detail in order to give some arguments)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 27, 2014, 12:37:49 AM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 26, 2014, 02:57:23 PM
exactly! (just felt I had to explain it in detail in order to give some arguments)

But what would be the difference then ? People wanting respawn to be always possible will put extra-high crash threshold (as you said).
So then let's give them the more straightforward option "always".

Maybe a more understandable presentation of the logic is this (but it needs more .ini params, no big deal anyway): you have one threshold per session type (testing, practice, quali, warm-up, race). In each session, a crash above the threshold (the threshold defined for the session) will result in a "back to pits" (which in a race means DNF), while a crash below the threshold will allow a respawn.

Or, if a setting that makes sense for all bikes can be found, maybe the thing can be simplified in just "respawn allowed on big crashes : yes/no" (binary option, yes for the easy-riders, no for the sim-freaks), one of these per session type (the threshold being hardcoded in GPB). Less flexible but less intimidating :)
Or maybe the option should only apply to quali, warm-up and race (so that we only need one option: ""respawn allowed on big crashes (quali/warm-up/race) : yes/no).

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Stout Johnson on January 27, 2014, 01:40:34 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 27, 2014, 12:37:49 AM
But what would be the difference then ? People wanting respawn to be always possible will put extra-high crash threshold (as you said).
So then let's give them the more straightforward option "always".
yeah, I understand - I didn't make that clear. With high crash-threshold I didnt mean a threshold that would effectively make respawn "always" possible ;) rather a crash everyone would agree that you couldn't continue for sure (hard to put into numbers I know ;) ) - so that would change the general mind-set of riders. You would know that your race could be over anytime if you crash real hard... As of now, you can always re-spawn and I think it shows in riders behaviour ;) and it shows here for example: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=609.msg5209#new


Quote from: HornetMaX on January 27, 2014, 12:37:49 AM
Or maybe the option should only apply to quali, warm-up and race (so that we only need one option: ""respawn allowed on big crashes (quali/warm-up/race) : yes/no).
that is quite honestly a great, yet still simple way to approach it - it does sound good.

But I fear that there is possibilty that it won't get a general consensus and will not be used... like with the onboard view. I truly believe if GPB only had cockpit view, people would still have fallen in love with that simulation. But as it is not mandatory people are afraid and they get used to 3rd person view and once used to it, you probably won't change. Therefore it is not really used widely... I assume the same for "respawn allowed on big crashes" option. People tend to go the easy way...

Why is this important? Why not allow people to choose whichever setting they want? Well imho, GPB is a sim and therefore some settings should be mandatory to ensure that this doesn't get too arcade-ish. So I would like to see "respawn allowed on big crashes" not as an option, but mandatory - only the crash threshold should be choosed from. And the easiest setting should still not allow people to continue on high speed crashes...

But I concede that this would be pretty hardcore and maybe there is not a wide consensus for it ;) so I could also live with the setting you proposed MaX. 
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BozoCRO on January 27, 2014, 09:52:04 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:04:56 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 25, 2014, 10:03:54 AM
my controller (Speedlink strike gamepad) rumbles in the game  :o

Really ? In which situations ?



It's seems random at first glance, but I guess it's the bikes vibrations, for example when changing direction, accelarating hard etc. It's always been like that. Since I started playing Gpbikes.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 27, 2014, 01:44:32 PM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on January 27, 2014, 01:40:34 AM
But I concede that this would be pretty hardcore and maybe there is not a wide consensus for it ;) so I could also live with the setting you proposed MaX.
Hi Stout, thanks for the clarification. In the end I guess Piboso will make the call, because too much is at stake.

I do agree with you: if rider view was mandatory, I would not be stuck on 3rd person view now (heh, from time to time I do try a few laps in rider view, I've even created a profile just for that :) ).

However, drifting too much on the sim side (guess the non-sim side could be the "dark" side) may have a bad consequence: less players.
I think this is what has made Piboso include (much against his overall philosophy) all the aids that are available in GPB.

Long term I think that players will decide on their own which category they belong to and the split will be natural

Quote from: BozoCRO on January 27, 2014, 09:52:04 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 25, 2014, 11:04:56 AM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 25, 2014, 10:03:54 AM
my controller (Speedlink strike gamepad) rumbles in the game  :o
Really ? In which situations ?
It's seems random at first glance, but I guess it's the bikes vibrations, for example when changing direction, accelarating hard etc. It's always been like that. Since I started playing Gpbikes.
That sounds very very strange: GPB has no rumble support as far as we know. You sure you don't have some special driver for your pad that make it rumble whatever the game ?

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BozoCRO on January 27, 2014, 05:15:00 PM
No nothing special, rumble works if I turn on force feedback option. I thought it was like that for everyone  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on January 27, 2014, 06:49:39 PM
Engine Sound Drowning:

@Max. This has been discussed before in the recent past but notice it has not come to your attention and put on your list yet. As I understood the consensus at the time was to have sound sliders in audio options so that ambient noise(Other riders engine noise) could be reduced to the users preference.

The problem with the current engine sound, is simply that you cannot hear your own engine revs when one or more other riders come anywhere near you. This is a huge problem when trying to race with other riders, and the race starts are just a total absolute drown out, I might as well totally turn the sound off. Three times now I've just flipped the bike straight over on the start line because I couldn't hear my engine revs during the start of a race.
If you can't hear your own engine revs, you can't judge clutch release well at all, it's hard to tell whether your accelerating as much as you think when you can hear another rider accelerating at the same time, etc, etc.... I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about and all the problems it causes.
This problem is especially bad for racing with 2 stroke bikes in my opinion. For some reason it doesn't seem quite as bad with the four strokes, still bad enough to need the sound adjusting though.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 27, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
Quote from: BozoCRO on January 27, 2014, 05:15:00 PM
No nothing special, rumble works if I turn on force feedback option. I thought it was like that for everyone  ;D
You mean you turn  FFB on in GPB ?
That means that your pad is seen as a FFB device (which is not the case of usual pads) even if then it is not an FFB device: it translates the FFB "signal" sent by GPB into vibrations (good luck with that). So your pad vibrates more or less when the virtual rider applies a torque on the handlebars.

Quote from: Hawk_UK on January 27, 2014, 06:49:39 PM
Engine Sound Drowning:

Yep, forgot that, gonna add it, thx.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: ALEale on January 28, 2014, 01:55:53 PM
Wow great topic Max! i read this only now! only one thing... i'm not reading any answers from Piboso... i hope he read this topic and take care of these suggestions.. ;)

so good job ULTRAMODERATOR eheheheh
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on January 28, 2014, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: ALEale on January 28, 2014, 01:55:53 PM
Wow great topic Max! i read this only now! only one thing... i'm not reading any answers from Piboso... i hope he read this topic and take care of these suggestions.. ;)
Yeah, he seems to be pretty busy at the moment (he even said so).
In any case, it's good to have everything listed in one place: the day he has some "spare" time, he may read this instead of dicing in the entire forum :)

Quote from: ALEale on January 28, 2014, 01:55:53 PM
so good job ULTRAMODERATOR eheheheh
It happens I have a bit of free time at the moment so I try to do the max (hehe) until they day that will no longer be possible.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on February 02, 2014, 11:58:58 AM
I have two suggestions.

1. In replays a camera that points in one direction. Meaning the camera points North, and the rider and bike would be rotating because of the track. Right now the camera is glued to the bike so what ever twitch the bike makes the camera will do it too. Makes it hard to notice things.

2. A button to change / clean my leathers. lol I don't need everyone to know I am a avid gravel surfer. :/
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on February 02, 2014, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Klax75 on February 02, 2014, 11:58:58 AM
I have two suggestions.

1. In replays a camera that points in one direction. Meaning the camera points North, and the rider and bike would be rotating because of the track. Right now the camera is glued to the bike so what ever twitch the bike makes the camera will do it too. Makes it hard to notice things.
I think that's already possible, but most of the time tv-like cameras just follow the bikes.
In any case, it is possible if you use a free / free-roam cam.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BozoCRO on February 03, 2014, 11:37:48 AM
Please include in wishlist: Clone 20 PiBoSos  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on February 03, 2014, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: BozoCRO on February 03, 2014, 11:37:48 AM
Please include in wishlist: Clone 20 PiBoSos  ;D
That would be one of the first useful applications of cloning :)

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Warlock on February 03, 2014, 05:50:09 PM
lol  ;D , indeed
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: LoriX on February 26, 2014, 05:37:00 PM
I would like the stats to show the bike in certain classs (125,500,1000) with which someone made theirs best lap time. For instance:
1. XXXX | Ducati GP12 | 1:xx.xx
2. YYYY  | Murasama RC990 03 | 1:xx.xx
3. ZZZZ | Suzuki GSVR | 1:xx.xx
4. AAAA | Honda CBR 1000RR | 1:xx.xx

Or is it not possible because of the bike mods that are not made from scratch, due to copyright (only converting someone's 3d models)?


Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Alby46 on February 26, 2014, 05:49:56 PM
some bikes, like the gp8 or the m1, since they aren't converted, could be integrated in the stats
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: iVolution on February 26, 2014, 05:52:53 PM
Quote from: Alby46 on February 26, 2014, 05:49:56 PM
some bikes, like the gp8 or the m1, since they aren't converted, could be integrated in the stats
Doesn't that form a problem with the branding? Ducati and Yamaha are protected brand names/products so could imagine that it isn't possible.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Alby46 on February 26, 2014, 06:16:33 PM
mhhh... if they're made with no-profit porpouses maybe we can use the original names
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on February 26, 2014, 06:34:30 PM
Quote from: Alby46 on February 26, 2014, 06:16:33 PM
mhhh... if they're made with no-profit porpouses maybe we can use the original names

You'd still have to source permission from the companies regarding using there copyrighted names even if it's for non profit purposes.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Alby46 on February 26, 2014, 07:03:18 PM
then we'll just add the class
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: janaucarre on March 17, 2014, 01:33:31 PM
Hello,
Last night i thought about a wish for tracked:
The capacity to make a symetry with the centerline, only to do the reverse mod.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: PiBoSo on March 17, 2014, 06:02:17 PM
Quote from: janaucarre on March 17, 2014, 01:33:31 PM
Hello,
Last night i thought about a wish for tracked:
The capacity to make a symetry with the centerline, only to do the reverse mod.

Do you mean to invert the racing direction?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: janaucarre on March 17, 2014, 06:08:32 PM
Yes, that's exactly what i mean.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Arvoss on March 17, 2014, 08:23:54 PM
Quote from: PiBoSo on March 17, 2014, 06:02:17 PM
Quote from: janaucarre on March 17, 2014, 01:33:31 PM
Hello,
Last night i thought about a wish for tracked:
The capacity to make a symetry with the centerline, only to do the reverse mod.

Do you mean to invert the racing direction?

Could it be possible to have automatically both directions for each track when you make 1? It would be cool to ride on the inverted Victoria for example :D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: -aGy- on March 19, 2014, 03:10:48 PM
server settings....one server with manual rider movement and another server without manual rider movement. i think manual rider movement is faster but i dont use it because dont have proper bike controller and i dont like gamepads.fair  when all have equal settings.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Stout Johnson on March 24, 2014, 12:46:43 PM
I know it is early, BUT I would like to know what Piboso's policy on this wishlist is and whether he will adapt those wishes?

Me, personally, I am particularly interested in the wishlist suggestions no.3 "Crashes and repsawns" and no.5 "Slider to lower ambient (i.e. othe rbikes') sound" as they directly affect the realism level of races... can we expect those wishes to be implemented in next release?

(Peter's last Brno race event which was "on-board view only" had many partipants and that showed that people are really willing to add to the realism... so I think people are ready for more realistic re-spawn behaviour... also the possibility to lower ambient/other bike's sounds is imho absolutely a must-feature...)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on March 24, 2014, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on March 24, 2014, 12:46:43 PM
I know it is early, BUT I would like to know what Piboso's policy on this wishlist is and whether he will adapt those wishes?

Me, personally, I am particularly interested in the wishlist suggestions no.3 "Crashes and repsawns" and no.5 "Slider to lower ambient (i.e. othe rbikes') sound" as they directly affect the realism level of races... can we expect those wishes to be implemented in next release?

(Peter's last Brno race event which was "on-board view only" had many partipants and that showed that people are really willing to add to the realism... so I think people are ready for more realistic re-spawn behaviour... also the possibility to lower ambient/other bike's sounds is imho absolutely a must-feature...)

I absolutely agree with you Stout, especially with regards to the ambient engine sounds.... While I was lined up on the grid I just couldn't hear my own engine revs at all, but as sound stands at the present, even a bike that is the length of a straight behind you sounds like it is pushing up your exhaust pipes; this really needs sorting as one of the high priority "To Do's" for the next release.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Alibaskins on April 02, 2014, 03:02:19 PM
I would like an organisation optimization for bikes folders.

Would it be possible to have a tree under the Bikes folder ?

Like that :
Bikes/1000/rcv
Bikes/500/cagiva
Bikes/125/125
Bikes/wss600/Bike1
Bikes/wss600/Bike2
Bikes/wss600/Bike3
Bikes/wss600/Bike4
Bikes/endurance/Bike1
Bikes/endurance/Bike2
Bikes/endurance/Bike3
Bikes/endurance/Bike4

1 category = 1 folder

It would be great for updates and to see mods installed.
In the same way, it will be possible to synchronise a mega or dropbox folder mod to have all bikes in the last version for exemple.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BerScott on April 04, 2014, 01:37:44 AM
+1

I use to do exactly that in rFactor and all is perfectly arranged.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: ChrisK on April 27, 2014, 09:57:45 AM
my wish is when crashing, camera stay by rider  and dont follow the bike :)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on April 27, 2014, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: ChrisK on April 27, 2014, 09:57:45 AM
my wish is when crashing, camera stay by rider  and dont follow the bike :)

+1 on that Chris. ;)

I guess it comes back to the fact that this is a simulation not an arcade game and therefore the camera view should be fix to the riders eye view while crashing. We can always take a look at the replay if we want to see the crash from afar.  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on April 27, 2014, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: Alibaskins on April 02, 2014, 03:02:19 PM
I would like an organisation optimization for bikes folders.

Would it be possible to have a tree under the Bikes folder ?

Like that :
Bikes/1000/rcv
Bikes/500/cagiva
Bikes/125/125
Bikes/wss600/Bike1
Bikes/wss600/Bike2
Bikes/wss600/Bike3
Bikes/wss600/Bike4
Bikes/endurance/Bike1
Bikes/endurance/Bike2
Bikes/endurance/Bike3
Bikes/endurance/Bike4

1 category = 1 folder

It would be great for updates and to see mods installed.
In the same way, it will be possible to synchronise a mega or dropbox folder mod to have all bikes in the last version for exemple.

+1 again on this idea. Nice one Alibaskins.  ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: ChrisK on April 27, 2014, 01:52:10 PM
the camera from the rider can turn in the direction the bike is crashing, so u still can see what bike is doing
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Arvoss on April 27, 2014, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: ChrisK on April 27, 2014, 01:52:10 PM
the camera from the rider can turn in the direction the bike is crashing, so u still can see what bike is doing

Or just add ragdoll physics :D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on April 27, 2014, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: Arvoss on April 27, 2014, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: ChrisK on April 27, 2014, 01:52:10 PM
the camera from the rider can turn in the direction the bike is crashing, so u still can see what bike is doing

Or just add ragdoll physics :D

That would be GREAT and very funny to watch in the replays. Hehe  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Arvoss on April 27, 2014, 02:13:31 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on April 27, 2014, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: Arvoss on April 27, 2014, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: ChrisK on April 27, 2014, 01:52:10 PM
the camera from the rider can turn in the direction the bike is crashing, so u still can see what bike is doing

Or just add ragdoll physics :D

That would be GREAT and very funny to watch in the replays. Hehe  ;D 8)

I wonder if it is difficult to integrate this in a game or if you can 'just' activate a ragdoll effect. But I think it doesn't work that way :P
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on April 27, 2014, 02:29:01 PM
Quote from: Arvoss on April 27, 2014, 02:13:31 PM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on April 27, 2014, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: Arvoss on April 27, 2014, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: ChrisK on April 27, 2014, 01:52:10 PM
the camera from the rider can turn in the direction the bike is crashing, so u still can see what bike is doing

Or just add ragdoll physics :D

That would be GREAT and very funny to watch in the replays. Hehe  ;D 8)

I wonder if it is difficult to integrate this in a game or if you can 'just' activate a ragdoll effect. But I think it doesn't work that way :P
The models(rider in this case) have to be rigged properly, but as far as I know the physics capabilities are already built into Direct X and Physics-X for the NVidia graphics cards.... though GP Bikes runs with Open GL for the graphics, but I'm sure this can do ragdoll physics also?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Braap570 on May 15, 2014, 01:18:43 PM
QuoteI would like the stats to show the bike in certain classs (125,500,1000) with which someone made theirs best lap time. For instance:
1. XXXX | Ducati GP12 | 1:xx.xx
2. YYYY  | Murasama RC990 03 | 1:xx.xx
3. ZZZZ | Suzuki GSVR | 1:xx.xx
4. AAAA | Honda CBR 1000RR | 1:xx.xx

Or is it not possible because of the bike mods that are not made from scratch, due to copyright (only converting someone's 3d models)?

Maybe it is possible for the stat - page if there only is the name of the rider, the class and the time like:

1.XXX | 1000ccm | Best Laptime of this class
2.XYZ | 1000ccm | Best Laptime of this class

and in a new chart

1. YYY | 500ccm | Best Laptime of this class
... and so on.

so everybody can look at his fastest time of all classes on every track... so the brand of the bike doesnt show up?

i think it would be cool to see the times of everybody including all bikes... :)

its just an idea, idk what you guys think about it, if there isn't the brand included?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on May 25, 2014, 08:41:18 PM
In Honor of Tracey we need a girl model for the rider. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Arvoss on May 25, 2014, 08:43:10 PM
Quote from: Klax75 on May 25, 2014, 08:41:18 PM
In Honor of Tracey we need a girl model for the rider. :)

Who says Tracy is a girl? :P
Male to Female Ratio:1:0 ::)

All you want are boobies lol
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on June 07, 2014, 09:58:24 AM
I just had a idea, on the screen that shows laps you've done and all the sectors. Maybe at the top show a "ideal lap", putting all the best sector times together in to one lap displayed at the top of the lap list.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on June 18, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
ok i didnt take the time to read all 5 pages but i will post here my wishlist if any of them is written twice please tell me to delete. so here i start first of all +1 to ChrisK post "my wish is when crashing, camera stay by rider  and dont follow the bike :)"(i think we can enjoy better a fall effect of the rider slidding and rolling +the rider will propably stop faster than the bike so we dont have to wait for the bike to stop or fall less than 17km/h! to respawn. so here's my list:
1.i want a better lean angle match for all bikes-i cant stand riding a mgp bike and cant lean at 64degrees or more(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J73XRDGPcpE)
2.faster downshift time-i dont know about everyone else here but i always do this when reaching a corner, i have a break point and then follows a downshift point where i always downshift all gears in some miliseconds(i can do this in all other moto games i play and in real life so i want it here)
3.more lean forward, in the game if you look form the side the bike, the rider's helmet has a difference of 15-20cm from the tank
4.better brake effect-if you press the fr brake gradually while having max angle you can actually reach 100% of it without the wheel to lock....
5.same for rr brake if i want to lock the rear wheel i must have like 200km/h or more(if i press the rear brake i want it to press 100% i dont care if i fall thats up to everyone to figure out but the effect has to be realistic
6.the same about throttle-no tsc in the world can keep the wheel on the tarmac while your with full throttle at max angle(im talking for low speed corners and yes the renault corner of cata is considered a low speed corner if you see mgp videos they slide the entire corner)
7.more cameras-not for the replays but in-game
8.more work on the effects and response when you start from stop-ive ride many bikes in my life and ALL supersport class bikes above 450-500cc when you open full throttle starting from stop or having very low rpm no bike of the above will lag(slow accelerate, or like carbs not synced) it will instantly start powerslide or wheelie
i.i've read somewhere about that but i want to mention again, i would like a lot some different riding styles(if you check mgp13 you can see some but i can think of many more) OR piboso leave us an "open window" so we can "build up" something
ii.i would like the rider sometimes to hang on the bike while "over" sliding and losing control and not actually just fall(i think you can see this also in mgp13)

@Something else i want to mention: i believe everyone here has much experience on motorsport, i had played netbike, tt superbikes and been playing only racing games for the past 14years so we should give the appropriate weight at everyone's opinion if we want this game to reach or get passed the level of its "ancestors"
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BOBR6 84 on June 18, 2014, 09:57:56 PM
For fast starts you need to use manual clutch - no problems there!

Faster downshifts?? You need better gearing.. I think its ok! Motogp 13 you can go from 6th to 1st whilst still doing 200mph  ::)
Rear brake I rarely use but iv had lock ups with it..

Some of your other points I fully agree with!  ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PM
Quote from: tseklias on June 18, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
>i want a better lean angle match for all bikes-i cant stand riding a mgp bike and cant lean at 64degrees or more(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J73XRDGPcpE)
You are comparing a 2013 motogp lean angle with a 2003 one (the 990 bike in GPB is from 2003). GPB lean angles seems to be pretty accurate.

Quote from: tseklias on June 18, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
>faster downshift time-i dont know about everyone else here but i always do this when reaching a corner, i have a break point and then follows a downshift point where i always downshift all gears in some miliseconds(i can do this in all other moto games i play and in real life so i want it here)
I'd like a proof of you downshifting on a real bike 2 or more gears in "some milliseconds". Unless by some you mean something like 300 or more (for 2 gears) ...
The fact you can do it in other moto games is not a proof GPB should allow you to do it (most likely it's a proof it shouldn't).

Quote from: tseklias on June 18, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
>same for rr brake if i want to lock the rear wheel i must like 200km/h or more(if i press the rear brake i want it to press 100% i dont care if i fall thats up to everyone to figure out but the effect has to be realistic
The effect is realistic. If you're on a straight at 200Kmh and push on the rear brake like a mad man, the rear will not lock: the reason is that the inertia of the bike (and the rear wheel) will keep it spinning. To lock the rear you have to unload the rear (i.e. forward brake, to have some load transfer): once the load on the rear is little, the rear brake will only have to win the wheel inertia. Notice that even this, at 200Kmh, will take time: the rear will not lock immediately (it will have to slow down the wheel first). I see zero problems in that area in GPB.

On road bikes it's even more true (it's very difficult to lock the rear unless you unload it), because road bikes are heavier (more bike inertia), have heavier wheels (more wheel inertia) and have less powerful rear brakes (to avoid unintentional lock-ups).

Quote from: tseklias on June 18, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
>the same about throttle-no tsc in the world can keep the wheel on the tarmac while your with full throttle at max angle(im talking for low speed corners and yes the renault corner of cata is considered a low speed corner if you see mgp videos they slide the entire corner)
They slide the entire corner, OK. So that proves what ?

Quote from: tseklias on June 18, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
>more cameras-not for the replays but in-game
Uh ? like what ? You gonna ride with a camera on the front wheel ?
Which cam would you like to have ?

Quote from: tseklias on June 18, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
>more work on the effects and response when you start from stop-ive ride many bikes in my life and ALL supersport class bikes above 450-500cc when you open full throttle starting from stop or having very low rpm no bike of the above will lag(slow accelerate, or like carbs not synced) it will instantly start powerslide or wheelie
At 2000 RPM, I really doubt they will powerslide. Manual clutch, get in the revs, and they will slide (most likely backflip) from stand in no time.

Quote from: tseklias on June 18, 2014, 09:32:39 PM
>i've read somewhere about that but i want to mention again, i would like a lot some different riding styles(if you check mgp13 you can see some but i can think of many more)
OR piboso leave us an "open window" so we can "build up" something
>i would like the rider sometimes to hang on the bike while "over" sliding and losing control(i think you can see this also in mgp13)
Not to counter the request, but saying "you have this in motogp 13" won't help a lot :)

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMYou are comparing a 2013 motogp lean angle with a 2003 one (the 990 bike in GPB is from 2003). GPB lean angles seems to be pretty accurate.
the lean angles should be available to set at the "hands" of the bike modder(i dont get your statement lets for example take rfactor, should all cars handle pretty much like the 6pre given? <-imo this is completely wrong)

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMI'd like a proof of you downshifting on a real bike 2 or more gears in "some milliseconds". Unless by some you mean something like 300 or more (for 2 gears) ...
The fact you can do it in other moto games is not a proof GPB should allow you to do it (most likely it's a proof it shouldn't).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PayOCoMnJx4 <-your turn now to show me a video of you doing what he did in gpb

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMThe effect is realistic. If you're on a straight at 200Kmh and push on the rear brake like a mad man, the rear will not lock: the reason is that the inertia of the bike (and the rear wheel) will keep it spinning. To lock the rear you have to unload the rear (i.e. forward brake, to have some load transfer): once the load on the rear is little, the rear brake will only have to win the wheel inertia. Notice that even this, at 200Kmh, will take time: the rear will not lock immediately (it will have to slow down the wheel first). I see zero problems in that area in GPB.

On road bikes it's even more true (it's very difficult to lock the rear unless you unload it), because road bikes are heavier (more bike inertia), have heavier wheels (more wheel inertia) and have less powerful rear brakes (to avoid unintentional lock-ups).
this imo its completely false even if you have 300km/h and full open throttle and step on the rear brake on ANY bike the wheel will INSTANTLY lock, i dont need a physics lesson to understand this, except if you mean doing this with a c50..

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMThey slide the entire corner, OK. So that proves what ?
http://youtu.be/-8zHB2SPRTI @0:24 <-you want me to reply as a gamer or give it a try as a psychiatric to this question? ::)

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMUh ? like what ? You gonna ride with a camera on the front wheel ?
Which cam would you like to have ?
1.rider's back camera 2.front forks 3.front headlight 4.steady at tank.....

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMAt 2000 RPM, I really doubt they will powerslide. Manual clutch, get in the revs, and they will slide (most likely backflip) from stand in no time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hj2xnvcDLY <-powerslides with like 15-20km/h, wheelies together with slide, rrbrake at 30km/h and he locked the wheel(is he riding a hyper-bike or......?) :-X

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMNot to counter the request, but saying "you have this in motogp 13" won't help a lot
this wasnt written by me to sabotage my request but to make fun and emphasize!

*my question, cause i get the feeling i got a kick at the @@: is this suppose to a discuss thread about the game or a sarcasm thread? :(
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on June 21, 2014, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
the lean angles should be available to set at the "hands" of the bike modder(i dont get your statement lets for example take rfactor, should all cars handle pretty much like the 6pre given? <-imo this is completely wrong)
The lean angle IS in the hands of the bike modder (indirectly, as in reality). I'm not sure you have understood how it works.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMI'd like a proof of you downshifting on a real bike 2 or more gears in "some milliseconds". Unless by some you mean something like 300 or more (for 2 gears) ...
The fact you can do it in other moto games is not a proof GPB should allow you to do it (most likely it's a proof it shouldn't).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PayOCoMnJx4 <-your turn now to show me a video of you doing what he did in gpb
In that video there's absolutely no downshift of 2 (or more gears) that happens in milliseconds. The downshift speed in that video is very comparable to GPB. Are you using manual gearbox ?

In any case, notice that gearbox shifting speeds have improved a lot in recent year (again, the 990 in the game is from 2003).

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMThe effect is realistic. If you're on a straight at 200Kmh and push on the rear brake like a mad man, the rear will not lock: the reason is that the inertia of the bike (and the rear wheel) will keep it spinning. To lock the rear you have to unload the rear (i.e. forward brake, to have some load transfer): once the load on the rear is little, the rear brake will only have to win the wheel inertia. Notice that even this, at 200Kmh, will take time: the rear will not lock immediately (it will have to slow down the wheel first). I see zero problems in that area in GPB.

On road bikes it's even more true (it's very difficult to lock the rear unless you unload it), because road bikes are heavier (more bike inertia), have heavier wheels (more wheel inertia) and have less powerful rear brakes (to avoid unintentional lock-ups).
this imo its completely false even if you have 300km/h and full open throttle and step on the rear brake on ANY bike the wheel will INSTANTLY lock, i dont need a physics lesson to understand this, except if you mean doing this with a c50..
It is wrong in your opinion but it is true in real life. You can check if you have a bike.
And that physics lesson, I'd seriously consider taking it.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMThey slide the entire corner, OK. So that proves what ?
http://youtu.be/-8zHB2SPRTI @0:24 <-you want me to reply as a gamer or give it a try as a psychiatric to this question? ::)
I don't get what's your point. Powerslides in GPB are difficult to obtain. Sliding entry a corner is relatively easy.
What are you complaining about ?

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMUh ? like what ? You gonna ride with a camera on the front wheel ?
Which cam would you like to have ?
1.rider's back camera 2.front forks 3.front headlight 4.steady at tank.....
But what would you use these camera for while in-game ?!  :o

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMAt 2000 RPM, I really doubt they will powerslide. Manual clutch, get in the revs, and they will slide (most likely backflip) from stand in no time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hj2xnvcDLY <-powerslides with like 15-20km/h, wheelies together with slide, rrbrake at 30km/h and he locked the wheel(is he riding a hyper-bike or......?) :-X
You can powerslide from 0Kmh, if you use the clutch.
He's locking the rear instantly at 30Kmh (30Kmh, not 300Kmh as you are saying above) because he's also braking with the front, which unloads the rear. You can do the same in GPB.

Wheelies together with slide ?  Really ? :o

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 04:47:24 PM
*my question, cause i get the feeling i got a kick at the @@: is this suppose to a discuss thread about the game or a sarcasm thread? :(
No kick in the ass at all, trying to understand what you mean (cause english does not seem to be your mother tongue, sometimes it's hard to understand).
Also, some of the requests makes little sense, but you don't seem to accept the explanations. Fine.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 21, 2014, 05:50:32 PM
The lean angle IS in the hands of the bike modder (indirectly, as in reality). I'm not sure you have understood how it works.
no i havent actually, if the lean angle is available for use from the modder then its wrong that the motogp bike mods out now cant lean till 64 degrees or more(considering the turn angle of the track)

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PM
In that video there's absolutely no downshift of 2 (or more gears) that happens in milliseconds. The downshift speed in that video is very comparable to GPB. Are you using manual gearbox ?

In any case, notice that gearbox shifting speeds have improved a lot in recent year (again, the 990 in the game is from 2003).
at 0:13 and 0:48 stoner downshifts faster that we can in gpb. i said miliseconds figuratively. yes im using manual(and to be exact i downshift with my foot testing a new controller im building and trying to copy motogp riders timing as much as possible and gpb wont let me downshift so fast, same happens with ps3 and xbox controllers i tested). well shouldnt we or piboso consider changing this since it improved in real life or should we stay together with musarama?

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PM
It is wrong in your opinion but it is true in real life. You can check if you have a bike.
And that physics lesson, I'd seriously consider taking it.
maybe we should agree that we disagree at this one. i personally havent changed my opinion on that, since hydraulic brakes came out it is like a rule for the companies the brakes always to overcome the power and weight of the vehicle. i will try and make a video of me doing it but it will take me some time since its start of the summer season and cops and families are all over the roads, so i cant get out hitting 300km/h just to show it to you, but i can assure you its achievable(easy) without pressing the front brake not weight transfering no nothing.

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PM
I don't get what's your point. Powerslides in GPB are difficult to obtain. Sliding entry a corner is relatively easy.
What are you complaining about ?
in gpb when cornering if you abruptly open up the throttle using tsc the wheel will slide a little which is just like reality, but the false here is that usually the tsc enables after that and you will have a period of good traction(midrange) and then again powerslide during top rpm. imo here is that the tsc feature needs update.

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PM
But what would you use these camera for while in-game ?!  :o
yes i do. i usually ride with rider's back camera or tank camera. the fact is that ive tried all 3 cameras in gpb and something doesnt feel right, it makes me feel like im gonna fall. yes i agree that im the weird person at this fact to be honest, many friends got surprised when they witnessed me playing.

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PM
You can powerslide from 0Kmh, if you use the clutch.
He's locking the rear instantly at 30Kmh (30Kmh, not 300Kmh as you are saying above) because he's also braking with the front, which unloads the rear. You can do the same in GPB.

Wheelies together with slide ?  Really ? :o
at 0:18 he powerslides with second gear at 5k rpm-not able at gpb
at 0:21 he locks the rear wheel at 40km/h-i cant do this in gpb
at 0:33 he powerslide and wheelie at the same time-a friend of mine could powerslide hes bike while he was almost vertical with hes zx6r(i personally couldnt do it but i witnessed him countless times doing this and also powesliding the bike at one direction not left&right continuously as far he wanted)

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 18, 2014, 10:27:52 PMNo kick in the ass at all, trying to understand what you mean (cause english does not seem to be your mother tongue, sometimes it's hard to understand).
Also, some of the requests makes little sense, but you don't seem to accept the explanations. Fine.
you guessed right english is not my native language but please understand that i cant mention it everytime, also im WIDE open to all explanations you might want to give me or vice versa but we can agree that sarcasm doesnt help noone ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on June 21, 2014, 10:25:16 PM
Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
no i havent actually, if the lean angle is available for use from the modder then its wrong that the motogp bike mods out now cant lean till 64 degrees or more(considering the turn angle of the track)
The reason is simple, all the 1000cc bike you see in GPB (except for the CBR1000 SC59) use the same physics: the one of the 2003 990 bike. And for that bike, the lean angle is good.
If one of our competent modders will start a recent  motogp physcis, you can be sure you'll see bigger lean angles.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
at 0:13 and 0:48 stoner downshifts faster that we can in gpb. i said miliseconds figuratively. yes im using manual(and to be exact i downshift with my foot testing a new controller im building and trying to copy motogp riders timing as much as possible and gpb wont let me downshift so fast, same happens with ps3 and xbox controllers i tested). well shouldnt we or piboso consider changing this since it improved in real life or should we stay together with musarama?
At 0:13 he downshifts 3 gears (5 --> 2) in roughly 0.7 seconds (I timed it roughly, playing the video at 1/4th of its speed). That makes 230ms per gear down.
In this you can see I downshift 5-->2 in roughly 0.7 seconds (just one try, I guess it can be done quickly than that, measured as before, at 1/4th speed).
I also downshift one more (to 1st) right after.

https://www.youtube.com/v/AqAbIqiVGhU

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
maybe we should agree that we disagree at this one. i personally havent changed my opinion on that, since hydraulic brakes came out it is like a rule for the companies the brakes always to overcome the power and weight of the vehicle. i will try and make a video of me doing it but it will take me some time since its start of the summer season and cops and families are all over the roads, so i cant get out hitting 300km/h just to show it to you, but i can assure you its achievable(easy) without pressing the front brake not weight transfering no nothing.
Well don't change your opinion then, up to you. But physics stands: with the rear loaded and the bike going, locking the rear with the rear brake only (no front brake, no downshifting) just doesn't happen. Even unloading the rear (braking with front to create some load transfer), the rear won't lock immediately: first it has to slow down the wheel which, at relatively high speed, has a lot of inertia. Rear brakes are not very powerful (because there's no need for that on race bikes and because they would be dangerous on road bikes).
With the data from GPB I think I could even tell you how much time it would take for the rear brake to bring the unloaded rear wheel from 200Kmh to zero. But likely you won't change your opinion even with that. No biggie.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
in gpb when cornering if you abruptly open up the throttle using tsc the wheel will slide a little which is just like reality, but the false here is that usually the tsc enables after that and you will have a period of good traction(midrange) and then again powerslide during top rpm. imo here is that the tsc feature needs update.
I'm not sure I feel the same thing, but at least now you've explained in a much clearer manner your point.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
yes i do. i usually ride with rider's back camera or tank camera. the fact is that ive tried all 3 cameras in gpb and something doesnt feel right, it makes me feel like im gonna fall. yes i agree that im the weird person at this fact to be honest, many friends got surprised when they witnessed me playing.
Tank camera is available, along with rider view and 3rd person view. Rider view has a bunch of settings to customize it.

What's a rider's back camera ?

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
at 0:18 he powerslides with second gear at 5k rpm-not able at gpb
at 0:21 he locks the rear wheel at 40km/h-i cant do this in gpb
at 0:33 he powerslide and wheelie at the same time-a friend of mine could powerslide hes bike while he was almost vertical with hes zx6r(i personally couldnt do it but i witnessed him countless times doing this and also powesliding the bike at one direction not left&right continuously as far he wanted)
Even if I'm not 100% positive he's powersliding at 0:18, keep in mind your friend has not the same tire (nor asphalt) you have on MotoGP bikes: grip is just not the same.
At 0:21 he locks the rear, but it's only at 40Kmh and I'd bet he's using the front brake.
At 0:33 I see only a wheelie, nothing more.

And that guy is a shame for all us riders (but that's just a personal opinion).

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 07:53:08 PM
you guessed right english is not my native language but please understand that i cant mention it everytime, also im WIDE open to all explanations you might want to give me or vice versa but we can agree that sarcasm doesnt help noone ;)
No need to mention it, but some of my further questions were to try to better understand what you were asking.

Sarcasm is good, it turns a boring question (or reply) into something more interesting ;)

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 10:51:57 PM
at 0:13 yes it may be achievable in gpb but at 0:48 he downshifts faster something that i cant do in gpb. my problem with that is that i press 3 times(very fast) the button in-game to downshift and it only downshifts 2 gears. give it a try and youll understand what i mean just press rapidly the downshift button.

rider's back camera is a camera standing at the height of the shoulders of the rider and like half meter or a little more back. i remember having this camera in an arcade bike game from the last ones that came out(sbkx,motogp13.. cant remember exact) and it was just what i wanted.

if he was using the front brake at 0:21 as you mention you would have seen the dash "diving" on the forks but it doesnt(not to mention that what your saying is REALLY dangerous, if you try to lock the brake like he did and you press also the front brake even touching it, it is most likely that youll kiss the asphalt). anyway i wont try to change your mind on this fact. but i can assure you the rear brake can INSTANTLY lock the wheel even if you have a passenger running at 300km/h without pressing the front brake and running on glue! i bet my right testacle on that! soz i change my mind both and the leg! ;D let me ask you a question here though: lets assume your on a bike pressing the rear brake and revving it to the limit while your stopped and you instant disengage the clutch. what do you believe now will happen? imo the bike will instantly turn off and the wheel wont move a milimeter!

*sarcasm is anger's deadly cousin!   :P
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on June 21, 2014, 11:25:06 PM
Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 10:51:57 PM
at 0:13 yes it may be achievable in gpb but at 0:48 he downshifts faster something that i cant do in gpb. my problem with that is that i press 3 times(very fast) the button in-game to downshift and it only downshifts 2 gears. give it a try and youll understand what i mean just press rapidly the downshift button.
That's normal, otherwise you'd be able to downshift with the button much faster that what you'd do on a real bike.
At 0:48 it's still comparable and, again, your video is for a 2011 bike, GPB's 990 is from 2003.
Right now they even have seamless downshifting, no wonder that's faster. Not sure that was the case in 2011, but even with that, I'd suspect 2011 gear changes to be faster than 2003, due to better control of engine brake.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 10:51:57 PM
if he was using the front brake at 0:21 as you mention you would have seen the dash "diving" on the forks but it doesnt. anyway i wont try to change your mind on this fact. but i can assure you the rear brake can INSTANTLY lock the wheel even if you have a passenger running at 300km/h without pressing the front brake and running on glue! i bet my right testacle on that! soz i change my mind both and the leg! ;D let me ask you a question here though: lets assume your on a bike pressing the rear brake and revving it to the limit while your stopped and you instant disengage the clutch. what do you believe now that the bike will do anything except instant turn off? imo the wheel wont move a milimeter!
Say bye to your testicles and leg then.

From your question (bike standing still, rev up and drop the clutch) it is clear that you haven't understood the reasons why you can't have instant rear lock using only the rear brake (unless the rear is very unloaded and the speed is low). But no problem.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 10:51:57 PM
*sarcasm is anger's deadly cousin!   :P
Not for me, at all. I use anger sparingly, only when it's really asked for. Definitely not the case here :)

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 11:51:12 PM
the question stands alone, not to mix up with the first example i gave you. i fully understand what you explained to me but yet i insist the brake will overcome anything.

as for the downshift delay its no matter if you ride a motogp or a 125cc bike as long as u can press the clutch and downshift on the lever rapidly the gears will drop no matter what(not to mix up with electronics or engine brake which help gear engage). just watch the sbk(new and old) at valencia or sepang, after the long straight they fall on the front brake and downshift all gears rapidly they dont care about wheel lock the on rear either way is airborne. heres a good example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q55n5daDrE
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on June 22, 2014, 12:27:56 AM
Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 11:51:12 PM
the question stands alone, not to mix up with the first example i gave you. i fully understand what you explained to me but yet i insist the brake will overcome anything.
The brake will overcome everything, but not instantly: it will take time before it locks (and in some cases it may not lock at all). The time to dissipate the kinetic energy of the rear wheel spinning and of the bike moving forward (unless the rear in not loaded and the tire has no/little grip), up to the point where the braking force overcomes the other forces (inertia) by a margin that allows the wheel to longitudinally slide (not locked yet), slow down and finally (and eventually) lock.

When you press hard the rear brake, the rear will instantly slip (in the technical sense of "slip"), but not lock. I'm under the impression you're confusing rear slip (contact patch sliding over asphalt) with rear lock (rotational speed of wheel = 0). In more practical terms, the rear wheel can starts "smoking" (i.e. slipping) while still turning (i.e. not locked).

If the rear brake were capable of instant locking of the rear, this would be equivalent to instantly introducing a large piece of steel between your wheel spokes and your swingarm: even assuming, spokes, rim, swingarm, chain and piece of steel can stand the impact, would you risk that ? I guess not.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 11:51:12 PM
as for the downshift delay its no matter if you ride a motogp or a 125cc bike as long as u can press the clutch and downshift on the lever rapidly the gears will drop no matter what(not to mix up with electronics or engine brake which help gear engage). just watch the sbk(new and old) at valencia or sepang, after the long straight they fall on the front brake and downshift all gears rapidly they dont care about wheel lock the on rear either way is airborne.
Yeah but you can press a button a few mm with your finger much faster than what you can do with your foot on a lever, so it makes sense not to allow blazing fast gear changes.
If you try the 125 and 500 in GPB (2 strokes with purely mechanical gearbox management), you'll see you can downshift faster.

Quote from: tseklias on June 21, 2014, 11:51:12 PM
heres a good example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q55n5daDrE
He's rear sliding while hard braking entering a corner, you can do thins in GPB any time. How is this related to the discussion on downshifting ?

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on June 22, 2014, 12:45:20 AM
no i dont confuse it the rear wheel will lock end of story(omg your more stubborn even than me ;D) if it didnt have the power to lock it would be as good as useless. i will make a video asap just to show it to you!

the video is played in slow motion(prop 1/2 time), the rider is using the lever to downshift and not the electronics(cause that way the slipper clutch functions) and is just an example that you can downshift faster that your able in gpb(atleast with the 1000cc bikes, i havent tried it with the 2stroke bikes so you may be right about this one). i will make another video of me trying to downshift like stoner on the video once i finish up completely with my controller so you see that theres a small delay in gpb that doesnt let us come closer to realism.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on June 22, 2014, 01:46:36 AM
another problem i just witnessed: if you lean a little to the right and press to look back, the rider takes off hes hand from the grip and twists hes body to look now if you shift the rider wont use the clutch. this is seen in the last update(5).
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: valentinik46 on June 30, 2014, 05:16:52 PM
@tseklias i agree about the rear brake and powerslides with you, but at the athens traffic atack video the asphalt is non existent you can powerslide on those streets with any bike,i live in athens,elinas eisai re???
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 02, 2014, 02:02:11 AM
Quote from: valentinik46 on June 30, 2014, 05:16:52 PM
i agree about the rear brake and powerslides with you, but at the athens traffic atack video the asphalt is non existent you can powerslide on those streets with any bike,i live in athens,elinas eisai re???

what i mean to say is that it must be achievable somehow in the game. now its not i think imo. and yes i agree that the road of athens on the summer period is like wet glass but you cant disagree to me that any of the supersports(135-140hp+) cant be driven like a streetfighter on any surface. nai me karfwse to binteo?  :P

and what about the downshifts?   :D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 02, 2014, 09:27:06 AM
what about a track view? i think a map view in-game is always helpful when learning a course.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 02, 2014, 10:06:30 AM
Quote from: tseklias on July 02, 2014, 09:27:06 AM
what about a track view? i think a map view in-game is always helpful when learning a course.

Guys (especially newcomers), before making suggestions and asking for help on stuff, you should really read the forum, there's a lot of information already there ...

http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=79.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=79.0)

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 02, 2014, 11:57:24 AM
im sorry max i read all your wishlist and google it also without any results. anyway thank you very much for helping me  :-*
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 02, 2014, 12:28:12 PM
No problem man. Another interesting post is here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.0)

As a general rule, all the sticky posts (in any forum section) are worth a look.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 02, 2014, 05:06:45 PM
Adjustable steering damper.. Is still at the top of my wish list :)

Another one for the future would be.. Different parts! Maybe ohlins/showa forks with different feel.. Etc.
I think klax mentioned this already..
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: valentinik46 on July 02, 2014, 06:12:38 PM
Quote from: tseklias on July 02, 2014, 02:02:11 AM
Quote from: valentinik46 on June 30, 2014, 05:16:52 PM
i agree about the rear brake and powerslides with you, but at the athens traffic atack video the asphalt is non existent you can powerslide on those streets with any bike,i live in athens,elinas eisai re???

what i mean to say is that it must be achievable somehow in the game. now its not i think imo. and yes i agree that the road of athens on the summer period is like wet glass but you cant disagree to me that any of the supersports(135-140hp+) cant be driven like a streetfighter on any surface. nai me karfwse to binteo?  :P

and what about the downshifts?   :D
no no i wont disagree at all,besides thats how superbikes are ridden in athens hehehehe  ;D about the downshifts i would like them to obey the input from player even if that means shaving the gears , blocking the wheel and breaking everything in the transmision  :P nai to binteo kai to nick sou :D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: valentinik46 on July 02, 2014, 08:26:58 PM
this counts as powerslide?                                                                                                                                                                                                   https://www.youtube.com/v/9k7p-hjq9wk&list=UUrP8jPGKdB0b6XyuE2X8h6A            :D     for me yes
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 03, 2014, 07:38:27 PM
Quote from: valentinik46 on July 02, 2014, 08:26:58 PM
this counts as powerslide?                                                                                                                                                                                                   https://www.youtube.com/v/9k7p-hjq9wk&list=UUrP8jPGKdB0b6XyuE2X8h6A            :D     for me yes

yes it does but we started this conversation with max when beta5 wasnt out yet. try doing this with beta4 its like impossible. beta 5 except for the overwheeling for me feels really good very efficient brakes, rider seems faster, bike feels more light, its an overall better beta.
*also why not be able to lean front(behind windshield) before reaching some speed-i mean someone can actually even lean fr even before he accelerate from stop.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 03, 2014, 07:44:50 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 02, 2014, 12:28:12 PM
No problem man. Another interesting post is here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.0 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.0)
i once passed over this link and then lost it again thanks :P
also Max do you want to open a new forum with bike wishes please?(i know anyone can do it but seeing this one of yours is much better classified comparing to the one i can make :-\)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 04, 2014, 08:17:13 AM
Quote from: tseklias on July 03, 2014, 07:44:50 PM
also Max do you want to open a new forum with bike wishes please?(i know anyone can do it but seeing this one of yours is much better classified comparing to the one i can make :-\)
I'm not admin here (not any more), but RiccoChicco is.

If you want a thread with bike wishes you can just create one and edit/maintain the 1st post in the thread so that it recaps the requests.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: valentinik46 on July 04, 2014, 07:43:24 PM
Quote*also why not be able to lean front(behind windshield) before reaching some speed-i mean someone can actually even lean fr even before he accelerate from stop.
thats a good point,it would help with starts and wheelies
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 07, 2014, 08:03:55 PM
what about night mod? i think qatar is the only circuit that is raced during nightime in motogp. i know qatars lighting may be really hard to build, but atleast we could get a night mod for the bikes that still have lights on. i think it will be a nice add-on.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 09, 2014, 01:34:35 PM
+1

Would be great for the endurance bikeset! Sounds difficult though..
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 09, 2014, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: tseklias on July 07, 2014, 08:03:55 PM
what about night mod? i think qatar is the only circuit that is raced during nightime in motogp. i know qatars lighting may be really hard to build, but atleast we could get a night mod for the bikes that still have lights on. i think it will be a nice add-on.

Already suggested (and replied to): http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=130.msg555;topicseen#msg555 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=130.msg555;topicseen#msg555)

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 09, 2014, 09:50:03 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 09, 2014, 01:51:28 PM
Already suggested (and replied to): http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=130.msg555;topicseen#msg555 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=130.msg555;topicseen#msg555)

i get that feeling from that "if" that we will never see it...  :-\ and imagine i was thinking of asking for snow next(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX_weIUwd_o)
also what about asking for an availability to move the handlebar along from lean axis, what were discussing on my forum(this weekend ill be almost ready with the "chassis" and get ready to move on the final steps[potensiometers&g25mount] ;D).
and one more question max i cant find any information around, the version were enjoying now are called betas from piboso. so does that mean were going to see a version 1 or it is just the way piboso calls its different versions?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 10, 2014, 07:50:46 AM
Snow is very unlikely in GPB (just my opinion). You'll probably have better chances to have it in MXB (but even there I think chances are very low): Piboso is working on a new tire/grip model for MXB and snow is somehow more similar to dirt than to asphalt. Still, not sure his new model could be tweaked to simulate snow properly.

Betas: yep, the masterplan has been to have a V1 for GPB (and KRP, and WRS). One day.

For the handlebars/lean axis thing I'm guessing that you would like to have two separate inputs, one for handlebars, one for lean. The thing is, on a real bike the two are not independent, so it wouldn't make much sense to have them separate.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 10, 2014, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 10, 2014, 07:50:46 AM
For the handlebars/lean axis thing I'm guessing that you would like to have two separate inputs, one for handlebars, one for lean. The thing is, on a real bike the two are not independent, so it wouldn't make much sense to have them separate.

why theyre not independent? what do you mean? :o
actually since its two different independantly working axis in real life why not have them in gpbikes.
what i was hoping is at least being able to use the handlebar steer at low speed for instance when you enter a grass section(in low speed) and also when you wheelie(cause actually when wheeling if you steer the handlebars left and right you must also move your body to balance the bike going straight again, cause a spinning front wheel is balancing you-this also mean that while wheeling when the front wheel will stop spinning the bike becomes quite unbalanced. i dont know if you ever noticed that it took me years of thinking to figure out why i was losing balance after some distance of wheeling and i never discovered why till one day a much more experienced race driver told me about it).
also if you reset in the middle of the corner i would like also to start accelerating and steering the wheel cause you cant actually lean having 10-20 kmh(not with a supersport[heavy] at least and not much).
also very useful using the low speed function.
even people playing with a xbox/ps controller can integrate this ability with the "back"(rb-lb/l1-r1) buttons and even setting a maximum percentage of steer where they feel comfortable.
not to mention the "window" we may open to future force feeback to the handlebars apart from lean(bike movement).
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 10, 2014, 12:28:46 PM
Quote from: tseklias on July 10, 2014, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 10, 2014, 07:50:46 AM
For the handlebars/lean axis thing I'm guessing that you would like to have two separate inputs, one for handlebars, one for lean. The thing is, on a real bike the two are not independent, so it wouldn't make much sense to have them separate.

why theyre not independent? what do you mean? :o
actually since its two different independantly working axis in real life why not have them in gpbikes.

It depends on what you mean with "independent": you turn the handlebars, the bike will lean no matter if you want it or not.

The only situation where they are "independent" is when wheeling (and even this is not entirely true).

What I mean is that you can't ask a bike to have any arbitrary combo of lean angle and handlebar angle: in steady state turn conditions, for a given lean angle there's a corresponding handlebars angle. If you change one you'll end up changing the other too. That does not apply if you have two independent inputs.

As a side note, a lot of people consider they control how much a bike leans using their body while in reality most of the control on that is done via the handlebars. For example: exiting a corner, when you pick up the bike from full lean right, you do this with the handlebars, not moving your body.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 10, 2014, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 10, 2014, 12:28:46 PM
It depends on what you mean with "independent": you turn the handlebars, the bike will lean no matter if you want it or not.

yes your entirely right but still you can use them seperately in many ocassions. just for a small example imagine trying to avoid a puddle on the road or when "drifting" in a straight(when you give the bike a very small lean angle)...
i can think of many more but the true need is the approach of reality and the "magic window" it will open for future updates.
what i mean to say is, dont you ever miss the thing that you cant give it a ride around the track like pfeiffer?
either way i will build mine with handlebar steer and install a force feedback motor also and hope for a future update of piboso.

=>also steering the handlebar too much on your example will have the opposite effect on leaning, meaningif you steer for example too much to the right the bike will not have the time to lean(right) and fall on the other side(left).
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 10, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
To avoid an obstacle in emergency, you just counter-steer (i.e.want to pass to the right, you steer left and the bike will lean right). There's no "lean input" involved in that. On a bike there's no such a thing a "separate" lean input you can act on.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 10, 2014, 09:52:19 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 10, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
To avoid an obstacle in emergency, you just counter-steer (i.e.want to pass to the right, you steer left and the bike will lean right). There's no "lean input" involved in that. On a bike there's no such a thing a "separate" lean input you can act on.

actually it is. its kind of how do you mean it. it can be used as seperate but will always react as one and both affect each other . if you want to avoid a small obstacle lets say a kitty or a mouse from the road you can only steer a little but fast the handlebars cause leaning the bike takes much more time to start changing the direction your facing, plus you will still move linear and its dangerous cause if you step on it youll probably fall. if you give it a try in gpb and accelerate slowly from stand and steer left or right youll see that the riders actually uses the handlebar on its own. its like some pre-activated steer help since if the game actually didnt act like that, the rider could actually only lean(assuming your speed is actually enough to lean with the handlebasr being able to face the axis without making much of a movement)
i dont know if you can understand me actually sorry for my bad explaination, i can make you a video of what i mean if you want with both examples.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 07:13:14 AM
Hmmm ... no. On a real bike, there's no separate lean input: you use the steering to lean the bike.

The fact that at low speed you can change the bike direction (almost) without leaning the bike is not really relevant: the lean angle of the bike is something that you "set" via the handlebars (torque applied to it) and using the rider body. Again, on a real bike you have a handlebar (torque) input, but not a bike lean angle (or torque or whatever) input.

I'm not sure if there's a language problem or if your understanding of how a bike works needs some clean up (there're good books around). Or maybe you're mixing the bike lean with the rider lean, don't know.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 11, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 07:13:14 AM
Hmmm ... no. On a real bike, there's no separate lean input: you use the steering to lean the bike.

The fact that at low speed you can change the bike direction (almost) without leaning the bike is not really relevant: the lean angle of the bike is something that you "set" via the handlebars (torque applied to it) and using the rider body. Again, on a real bike you have a handlebar (torque) input, but not a bike lean angle (or torque or whatever) input.
how can you "almost" change when you actually change direction, i dont get that. lets take for example your leaving a gas station, when your still in the shops yard you move only the handlebars till you reach the road after entering the road and begin to build up some speed when the opposite effect start taking place meaning the handlebars start to become heavy to move and actually not really the right way to change directions.
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 07:13:14 AM
I'm not sure if there's a language problem or if your understanding of how a bike works needs some clean up (there're good books around). Or maybe you're mixing the bike lean with the rider lean, don't know.
ok let me explain it to you here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBbz_cbNWk4 at 0:32 and on for some meters he uses the handlebars steer ability to leave pits(he cant actually lean cause he is conflicting with the bikes(and hes) dissability of weight and low speed which will make him instantly fall). at 1:11 he leans the bike(benefiting the speed which can actually balance the bike).
your taking it too much on the physics side when the thing is simple can you in real life turn using only the handlebars?=yes(simpler example can be seen on a tricycle bike)
can you now lean the bike to turn without using the handlebars?=yes
remember when you first tried gpb how many times you fell trying to leave the pits of victoria? so why not have this ability available to be used isnt this an anomaly?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 01:35:53 PM
Quote from: tseklias on July 11, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 07:13:14 AM
Hmmm ... no. On a real bike, there's no separate lean input: you use the steering to lean the bike.

The fact that at low speed you can change the bike direction (almost) without leaning the bike is not really relevant: the lean angle of the bike is something that you "set" via the handlebars (torque applied to it) and using the rider body. Again, on a real bike you have a handlebar (torque) input, but not a bike lean angle (or torque or whatever) input.
how can you "almost" change when you actually change direction, i dont get that.
The "almost" was for the "without leaning": at low speed you can change the bike direction almost without leaning.

Quote from: tseklias on July 11, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
your taking it too much on the physics side when the thing is simple can you in real life turn using only the handlebars?=yes(simpler example can be seen on a tricycle bike)
Again, you can make a turn with handlebars only, but that is doable only at low speed (and the bike leans a bit anyway).
At normal speed (let's say >50Kmh), if you push the handlebars the bike will lean, no matter what. So having separate and independent handlebar angle and bike lean angle controls makes no sense.

Tricycles are a totally different thing, as they don't lean at all: you can't use them as an example for bikes.

Quote from: tseklias on July 11, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
can you now lean the bike to turn without using the handlebars?=yes
This is not as easy as many seems to think.

Just as an example: you're sitting on your bike, the handlebars are locked in middle/straight position, cruising on a flat straight at some speed (e.g. 60 Kmh). Now you lean your torso right: what happens to the bike ? I expect many riders (including experienced ones) to give the wrong answer.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 11, 2014, 03:03:54 PM
Weight on the footpegs helps..

I think counter steering happens subconciously anyway.. That helps turn too.. Then extra counter steer as you need it..

So your body weight leaning off the bike, pressure on footpeg and the pressure on handlebar all help you turn..

You dont turn the handlebars at all apart from slow speed..

Getting your weight over and on the footpegs is most important I think.. At high speed anyway..

Ps. I didnt read all the above posts..

Pps. Im racing at Aintree tomorrow! That track would be brilliant on gpbikes!!!
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 11, 2014, 03:03:54 PM
I think counter steering happens subconciously anyway..
That's right and explains why many do it without being aware.

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 11, 2014, 03:03:54 PM
You dont turn the handlebars at all apart from slow speed..
But that's wrong. For sure you don't turn them at their max as when at very low speed (like 20 degree), but you do turn them. Usually not a lot (e.g. 3-5deg) but occasionally more. Can't pull some GPB telemetry right now but you definitely turn the
handlebars even at high speed.

MaX.

P.S.
For the ones still thinking you can (practically) lean only shifting your body: this video (just an extract) is pretty old and rather well known, but many may still find it interesting. Look how slowly the bike leans/turns when you're not actively using the handlebars.

http://www.youtube.com/v/4PbmXxwKbmA

MaX
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 11, 2014, 03:56:31 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 07:13:14 AM
The "almost" was for the "without leaning": at low speed you can change the bike direction almost without leaning.
oh yeah that makes sense now. of course i told that they "always" work together meaning they affect each other.

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 07:13:14 AM
Again, you can make a turn with handlebars only, but that is doable only at low speed (and the bike leans a bit anyway).
At normal speed (let's say >50Kmh), if you push the handlebars the bike will lean, no matter what. So having separate and independent handlebar angle and bike lean angle controls makes no sense.

Tricycles are a totally different thing, as they don't lean at all: you can't use them as an example for bikes.
as i said above yes i agree the bike needs at your will to be leaned a little in order to stay balanced. actually you CANT in any way try to steer with the use only of the handlebars with the speed you mentioned above you can make only fast and short movements cause the steering wheel is becoming "heavy" but beyond that if you although push it hard to steer youll only make the bike turn the position you pushed it and you will fall the opposite side NO lean will appear. they can be used in gpb(even with a joined/or not option) like in real life separate but not independent inputs for both type of steers, as for the phrase of your that it doesnt make sense... well i wasnt expecting that way of thinking from a simulation fan! simulation means coming closer and closer to reality if this is not THEN WHAT?!?! i think your more on the way the bike looks to move rather than my side that how the bike actually works. ask yourself now which of the two bolded mentioned will be a more suited to a subtitle to a simulation... ;)
tricycles was the most hardcore example i could think to make you understand what im saying.

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 07:13:14 AM
This is not as easy as many seems to think.

Just as an example: you're sitting on your bike, the handlebars are locked in middle/straight position, cruising on a flat straight at some speed (e.g. 60 Kmh). Now you lean your torso right: what happens to the bike ? I expect many riders (including experienced ones) to give the wrong answer.
speaking on your example(60km/h) are way too slowly and the handlebars will need to be steered a little to the right in order to turn. BUT that doesnt mean you cant lean! you can actually lean but not push it too much and as your speed becomes greater and greater the steer of the handlebars is becoming pretty much useless to a point of almost zero steer actually.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 04:16:25 PM
Well, I tried to explain it to you but it seems to be impossible. I can only suggest to buy a real book on how bike works and dive into it. Expect many of your current ideas to be proven wrong.

MaX.

P.S.
You didn't answer my question. If you don't like 60Kmh, make it 120Kmh or whatever.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 11, 2014, 04:31:15 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 04:16:25 PM
You didn't answer my question. If you don't like 60Kmh, make it 120Kmh or whatever.

i think the video you send the moment i was typing my answer to you explains it all. in less words low speed=more handlebar use, less lean.........high speed=less handlebar use, more lean.

and finally since you give me the feeling you kinda rankle with our conversation, remember its just a conversation man we both can take things out of it. after all its a game and were here to have fun and then all else, dont put that aside ;).
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 04:54:14 PM
No problem at all man. Cheers.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on July 11, 2014, 05:58:40 PM
Interesting stuff.

I'm starting to get to the point in DST, I'm not thinking about it. I just know what to do. Makes me love GP bikes more. With DST, if I use the front brake in a sharp turn even at a high lean. Just like in the video the bike will want to sit itself back up. Before it looses all it speed then fall over. lol.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on July 11, 2014, 10:32:08 PM
Nice video Max! It can't be explained any simpler than that I feel.  ;)

Hawk.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 12, 2014, 05:09:45 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 19, 2014, 10:31:06 PM
  • 2014/01/20: Bike max lean angle
    Description: changeable max lean angle for a bike: could be a bike property (i.e. up to the bike modder to fix it) or an in-game option (use at your own risk).
    Status: pending.

:D  thx max
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 12, 2014, 05:35:52 PM
Quote from: tseklias on July 12, 2014, 05:09:45 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on January 19, 2014, 10:31:06 PM
  • 2014/01/20: Bike max lean angle
    Description: changeable max lean angle for a bike: could be a bike property (i.e. up to the bike modder to fix it) or an in-game option (use at your own risk).
    Status: pending.

:D  thx max

The above is old and, in fact, irrelevant (now that we know how the physics is described).
The max lean angle depends on the bike physics but it's not explicit (as on a real bike).

MaX.

P.S.
I wrote the recap a long time ago, at the time I was moderator here. Since then, I'm no longer in charge of that and I'm not sure anybody has been taking responsibility of maintaining the post updated. Some items (like the one you quoted) are no longer relevant.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 12, 2014, 11:46:13 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 12, 2014, 05:35:52 PM
The above is old and, in fact, irrelevant (now that we know how the physics is described).
The max lean angle depends on the bike physics but it's not explicit (as on a real bike).

MaX.

P.S.
I wrote the recap a long time ago, at the time I was moderator here. Since then, I'm no longer in charge of that and I'm not sure anybody has been taking responsibility of maintaining the post updated. Some items (like the one you quoted) are no longer relevant.

??? i didnt quite understand this so who is responsible for the maintenance of this thread? and if pretty much nobody is and this is dead, why we keep discussing things here and we dont create a new one or update this? and what news you got and you say it depends on physics which are not explicit?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 13, 2014, 08:19:09 AM
Quote from: tseklias on July 12, 2014, 11:46:13 PM
??? i didnt quite understand this so who is responsible for the maintenance of this thread?
Likely, nobody. I can still edit the 1st post though, so technically I could keep it up to date. Willingness is lacking lately though. Utility of the post is also not that clear (personal opinion).

Quote from: tseklias on July 12, 2014, 11:46:13 PM
and if pretty much nobody is and this is dead, why we keep discussing things here and we dont create a new one or update this?
Anybody can create a new one, if they have the time/energy/knwoledge to manage it.

Quote from: tseklias on July 12, 2014, 11:46:13 PM
and what news you got and you say it depends on physics which are not explicit?
The news is that in the physics files, there's no max lean angle parameter. The max lean angle is computed in real time depending on the other physics parameters and the conditions at that moment (track conditions, tire conditions, dynamics conditions). Like on a real bike.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 13, 2014, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 11, 2014, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 11, 2014, 03:03:54 PM
I think counter steering happens subconciously anyway..
That's right and explains why many do it without being aware.

Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 11, 2014, 03:03:54 PM
You dont turn the handlebars at all apart from slow speed..
But that's wrong. For sure you don't turn them at their max as when at very low speed (like 20 degree), but you do turn them. Usually not a lot (e.g. 3-5deg) but occasionally more. Can't pull some GPB telemetry right now but you definitely turn the
handlebars even at high speed.

MaX.

P.S.
For the ones still thinking you can (practically) lean only shifting your body: this video (just an extract) is pretty old and rather well known, but many may still find it interesting. Look how slowly the bike leans/turns when you're not actively using the handlebars.

http://www.youtube.com/v/4PbmXxwKbmA

MaX


yeah thats right..

all i meant was this usually happens as you move off the bike.. lets say lean left.. shift your ass over and as you drop down you are putting presure on the left bar. essentially pushing it away from the corner as described. you dont steer the bike in the direction you are going like you would at low speed is all i meant to say
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 13, 2014, 05:01:35 PM
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 13, 2014, 03:13:04 PM
yeah thats right..

all i meant was this usually happens as you move off the bike.. lets say lean left.. shift your ass over and as you drop down you are putting presure on the left bar. essentially pushing it away from the corner as described. you dont steer the bike in the direction you are going like you would at low speed is all i meant to say
Agree on that. The fact it happens almost "automagically" is what makes the fact unknown to most, leading to the wrong idea that they "turn with their body".

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 14, 2014, 12:47:21 PM
so will you Max keep this up-to-date? i mean not right now ofcourse but will you sometime? and if not do you remember which ones of your list are likely to be updated in the following updates and which are disagreed to be enabled by piboso so someone can create a new one or you give him the admin rights to continue on the existing?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 14, 2014, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: tseklias on July 14, 2014, 12:47:21 PM
so will you Max keep this up-to-date? i mean not right now ofcourse but will you sometime? and if not do you remember which ones of your list are likely to be updated in the following updates and which are disagreed to be enabled by piboso so someone can create a new one or you give him the admin rights to continue on the existing?
I've updated some entries this morning (their status is in bold).

I can't give any admin right as I have none. Admin here is RiccoChicco (on top of Piboso, of course).

Given how useful the recap has been (for the benefits of newcomers, I'm being sarcastic here), I'm not extremely willing to spend time on it: most likely, it's just a pointless exercise.

On the other hand, I haven't seen any major suggestion/wish posted recently worth a note (but I may have missed some).

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: RiccoChicco on July 14, 2014, 01:18:31 PM
I can't update each opened topic  :-[

But if someone needs a topic to be "Sticky", I can't do that if the original posters keeps it updated :)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 14, 2014, 01:20:50 PM
Quote from: RiccoChicco on July 14, 2014, 01:18:31 PM
I can't update each opened topic  :-[
That's strange, as I was able to (at the time).

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: RiccoChicco on July 14, 2014, 01:29:14 PM
So add in the OP :

- Change moderator

I'm sorry, but I only update my own topics and "global" topics (unofficial guide for example). Other topics are under the responsabilty of the original poster.


It seems that I'm not the needed moderator anymore  :-\
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 14, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Uhmm, not sure I understand you right Ricco: do you mean you technically can't edit others' topics (which sounds strange to me) or that you don't have the time to manage other topics outside the ones you mentioned (which I would understand) ?

I wasn't criticizing what you do or don't do, my understanding of what you said was that you were technically unable to edit the wishlist post ...

MaX.

P.S.
Man, the whole atmosphere here is just depressing. No big news though ...
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: RiccoChicco on July 14, 2014, 01:39:15 PM
I can do it technically, but I don't have enough time (and moreover enough patience) to do that.

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 14, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Man, the whole atmosphere here is just depressing. No big news though ...

Agree, I hope MXB will bring some fresh air.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on July 14, 2014, 01:55:22 PM
Quote from: RiccoChicco on July 14, 2014, 01:39:15 PM
I can do it technically, but I don't have enough time (and moreover enough patience) to do that.
OK, I have no problem with that, of course.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Warlock on July 14, 2014, 01:59:18 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 14, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
P.S.
Man, the whole atmosphere here is just depressing. No big news though ...

lol  ;D , true
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BOBR6 84 on July 14, 2014, 04:34:11 PM

+1 lol  :-\
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tseklias on July 14, 2014, 05:12:50 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 14, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Man, the whole atmosphere here is just depressing. No big news though ...

i agree only the climate makes me want to store my willingness for other things... and im not being sarcastic on anyone here im just saying that the whole image i get from the players is that piboso is working on other things rather than our needs and with very slow steps. the first is worst than the second since we are in need of a skeleton-the one that cant be made from max, ricco or anyone here..(meaning you dont have permision and be responsible for this-not missing the knowledge)

i dont think we need any new ideas since we havent already seen some very basic for me(for example: launch control, slipper clutch, the ability to change tsc,abs and all electronics while riding, the bug that bike keeps going for miles without rider,no real motogp physics till now and many more)

the thing is that we dont have any answers from piboso on theyr future plans and if someone of the admins does, he should update. this is the only real bike simulator out now and if updates left to die the whole project will eventually die and we havent yet seen version 1. also i dont feel like moving on mxb since theyr last game(gpb) is left in the dark, what makes you think you will have more chances with mxb? just imagine what newcomers(ffs they just payed for the game!) will feel if they just enter here and read the last posts(supposing no further serious steps will be made)

it seems that this forum is becoming a +1 to please listen to us!
+1 from me then if it is to be heard..
*my apologies to piboso if they find me cynic but i like to call things with their real name and dont hide behind kind words! and im not crying for the cost of it im crying for everyones willingness to take this to the next step which seems its not taken serious
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: JamoZ on August 08, 2014, 12:32:40 PM
How about just learning how to use a manual clutch? Just like the rest of us did?  ???
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Ian on August 08, 2014, 12:51:52 PM
Quote from: janaucarre on August 08, 2014, 11:47:41 AM
Hello,
After s great 500cc race we have discussed about one particular point:
Is it possible, for a next release, to implement a special clutch for the 2stroke?
I'm talking about the fact that when we use automatic clutch at the start of a race, we surely loose 200m on those who can use manual clutch. So, is it possible to make, only for start, an automatic clutch which made that the motor take higher rpm?
Thank you.
You can have both at the same time,I use auto for gear change and manual for starts
I have the left trigger on the Xbox setup for the clutch
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: JJS209 on August 08, 2014, 08:13:25 PM
dont know if anyone said before but i would like to have something like a "ghost" thats driving with me (my best previous laptime) so i can battle myself.
u guys know what i am talking about...  8)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: PeterV on August 08, 2014, 08:36:23 PM
Quote from: JJS209 on August 08, 2014, 08:13:25 PM
dont know if anyone said before but i would like to have something like a "ghost" thats driving with me (my best previous laptime) so i can battle myself.
u guys know what i am talking about...  8)

Said an asked for many times.....in short....Piboso is not a fan for a ghost.
(try search function)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: camillozockt on August 08, 2014, 09:07:57 PM
yeah but piboso doesnt even play the game !! and i think if 90% of the players suggest it why not !?!?!
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Arvoss on August 08, 2014, 09:27:03 PM
I don't understand it... KRP has a ghost but PiBoSo does not want a ghost in GPB or WRS... :P
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Ian on August 08, 2014, 09:31:20 PM
Piboso made it very clear there would never be a ghost period.
Pity :(
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Warlock on August 08, 2014, 10:32:11 PM
Imo is enough with max plugin.

Quote from: camillozockt on August 08, 2014, 09:07:57 PM
yeah but piboso doesnt even play the game !!

No , but he build it so...

Quote from: camillozockt on August 08, 2014, 09:07:57 PM
and i think if 90% of the players suggest it why not !?!?!

If 90% of players suggest arcade physics, should he implement it ?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Alone on August 08, 2014, 11:05:48 PM
Quote from: camillozockt on August 08, 2014, 09:07:57 PM
yeah but piboso doesnt even play the game !!

Sure? look: http://stats.gp-bikes.com/stats.php?rider=44610358

Or maybe is his famous risk´s doublé  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: JJS209 on August 08, 2014, 11:05:52 PM
Quote from: Warlock on August 08, 2014, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: camillozockt on August 08, 2014, 09:07:57 PM
and i think if 90% of the players suggest it why not !?!?!

If 90% of players suggest arcade physics, should he implement it ?
we r the other 10%?! so 90% of us would be 9% ok... :)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: rodney007 on August 09, 2014, 08:48:56 AM
+1 for  Ghost.

Piboso doesnt' require us to put the helmet on and start engine as well.

Sounds like "realism" is an excuse IMO. Ghost is an additional feature - you can choose to not use
if your so "hardcore".


Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 11:16:32 AM
I'm in favor of ghost. At the same time, we can only suggest stuff to Piboso, final decision is up to him.

Saying "90% of players want it" (assuming it's true), is just a piece of information: it doesn't oblige him to implement it at all.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: janaucarre on August 09, 2014, 12:02:23 PM
Those who have replied to my post have not understand what i wanted to say,So closed for me.
It's strange to see the comming people in a thread for posting about things asked many months and many times before, and not about new thing.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 01:42:05 PM
Quote from: janaucarre on August 09, 2014, 12:02:23 PM
Those who have replied to my post have not understand what i wanted to say,So closed for me.
To be honest janaucarre, even me I didn't understand exactly what you want: auto clutch is slower than manual clutch when starting from stand, so ?

You want a better auto-clutch ? Doesn't make a lot of sense, you should probably just use manual clutch.

It would be like asking for a better "brake help" because with "brake help" on you are slower than with it off.

Or maybe I'm missing something of what you are saying ...

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: janaucarre on August 09, 2014, 02:08:19 PM
I use the manual clutch from my first lap on gpb.
After all this time I still can not use it correctly. My first use of a clutch on a real bike was at about 7 years old, and in 5 minutes, or 10, i used it easily and have no more problem until GPBike:)
My suggestion, after a discussion with JC21, is that in automatic clutch mod, the motor must take more rpm before letting go the clutch. We don't have this problem with murasama because there is so much power. The 2 strokes automatic clutch goes at 2000 rpm and let the clutch, it's a non sense but if you do on a standard road in real life. I think the motor needs to be at 12000 or 14000 RPM before let go the clutch.
The other solution is to make another manual clutch more easy to use (3 years is not enough), but i don't want it and all those who have passed either.
Is it more clear or must i to enlarge my explanations?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 02:33:21 PM
It's clear now, thanks.

But I still don't see the problem: you are saying that people on manual give you (on auto) 200m at start ? So it is possible to have a good start in GPB on manual clutch.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: janaucarre on August 09, 2014, 02:49:10 PM
I have removed the older post for less understanding problems.
My problem is not that manual clutcher can make better start than auto clutcher, the problem is what i'was talking about in previous post.
The start is unrealistic (I know this is spearheaded by) with auto clutch.
Like one said: the 2 stroke 500cc have really no power under 10000 rpm, so if you try to start a 2 stroke 500cc race, you must to be at 10000 to start, if no you can only stand or going rear.
Second thing: It's so hard to do a good start (alone or not) with manual clutch, as i said before i use it from more than 3 years and i can't do 2 times the same or approximatively the same, in real life it's just really really really easier.

I think what i ask for is not a real difficult to implement, that's why i ask for.
I ask for that because it's a wish from me and other persons, and it can make the game better.
I repeat that we dont need that for 1000cc (for this beta).

Thank you.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 03:17:50 PM
OK, I see now.

Looking at the autoclutch section (of the 990, only one I have at hand) in the bike.cfg, it is clear to me that the autoclutch is not intended to do fast starts: it's only intended to gently start from stop.

You can probably play with these values and see what you can obtain, but as there's only one setting, you can either have it configured to do fast starts (assuming it is possible, which is not sure) or for gentle starts. And if you "set it on fast starts", then exiting from the pits ...

There's only one way: manual. I'm even surprised about Hawk approving this: I mean, old school, rider view, no helps at all and then auto clutch ? Sounds strange.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on August 09, 2014, 04:20:22 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 03:17:50 PM

There's only one way: manual. I'm even surprised about Hawk approving this: I mean, old school, rider view, no helps at all and then auto clutch ? Sounds strange.

MaX.

Hi Max.

Did I support auto clutch for the same reason Janau wants auto clutch for(Can't find my post here about that)?

An auto-clutch for starts doesn't make sense to me, and besides, surely that would potentially give a BIG advantage for starts to any auto-clutch guys if Piboso implemented an auto-clutch system that could handle the revs for the starts? Part of the skill of racing is using your skill with the manual clutch off the start line.  :)

The only reason I'm still using the auto clutch with manual gear change at this time is because I'm still learning full manual riding right now and it's all I can do to not get information overload while operating all other manual controls right now. LOL. As soon as things start to become automatic I'll certainly be moving over to total manual clutch control.

But using auto clutch for starting on the 2 stroke bikes is something you either put up with the slow starts or it's a no go area without the likely potential of flipping the bike over at the start. Manual clutch is really the only option for a good start in 2 stroke races, but my biggest problem with that is being able to judge the revs by sound(which is my way of using a clutch), because the engine sound(especially on a 2 stroke grid) is totally drowned out by all the other bike engine noises, so even the manual clutch is pretty much a useless addition for the 2 stroke bikes at this stage of development for use as a start tool. I'm very surprised Piboso hasn't applied an ambient engine sound slider so we can adjust it to our liking? Can this be so hard to apply? It's been asked for many times.  ::)

But to be honest, since beta 5/b came out I've hardly practiced at all.... I had my 1st fully manual practice session on Klax's server about 4 - 5 weeks ago(thought I could get back into riding again) but not ridden a bike since that time.... I've been more interested in the Modding side and other work and not really had the time needed to learn this manual riding stuff, but I'm determined not to ride GPB any other way now but manual only. The bike just seems to react more life-like when everything is fully manual and I'm sick and tired of the worsening low-sides in auto rider mode; so no more auto-ride mode for me.  :)

Hawk.


Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BOBR6 84 on August 09, 2014, 04:36:31 PM
i struggled with manual clutch for that reason in the laguna race! couldnt hear it lol. i suppose i should have just dropped it but you run the risk of flipping.. instead i crawled off the line and unfortunately the guy behind hit me because of this..

i use manual clutch full stop.. but to be honest i rarely use it even when downshifting lol not good.. the thing is its exactly the same! manual/auto clutch. if you d/shift with auto clutch.. then d/shift with manual clutch but dont use the clutch.. no difference!

the front brake seems to dictate the revs for some reason?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 04:54:41 PM
The sound issue is known and your request for an ambient sound volume slider sounds legitimate to me.
However I don't think implementing some sort of "launch control" is a solution for the problem.

Quote from: Hawk_UK on August 09, 2014, 04:20:22 PM
The only reason I'm still using the auto clutch with manual gear change at this time is because I'm still learning full manual riding right now and it's all I can do to not get information overload while operating all other manual controls right now.

Hmm ... I think you're mixing up the different options: Auto Clutch only helps you when starting from still. Shift Help, on the other hand, is something supposed to allow you to shift gears up (maybe even down) without using the clutch.

So setting Auto Clutch OFF and Shift Help ON, you can have manual clutch for the start and then shift gears manually (i.e. Automatic Shift OFF) but without using the clutch.

But there's a funny thing: if I recall correctly, right now, even on a bike without shifter like the varese, you can shift up without using the clutch and without lifting the throttle, even with Shift Help OFF. What's even stranger to me, you can even shift down without clutch.

On the mursasama, as it has a shifter, it is normal to be able to shift up without clutch/throttle lift, even if Shift help is OFF. However, the fact you can shift down with no clutch with Shift help OFF is still strange.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on August 09, 2014, 07:52:30 PM
In beta 3, on the 500cc and 125cc you couldn't up shift when giving a lot of throttle. You could if you used the clutch. But for me, I found that if for a split second released throttle then shift it worked for me. And my lap times were the same as if I used the clutch.

After Beta 4, 4b, and Beta 5, 5b you can up shift on the 500cc, and 125cc anytime you want. So I always assumed this was a bug since it wasn't like this before.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: BOBR6 84 on August 09, 2014, 08:01:55 PM
yep. you dont need the clutch to upshift but without a quickshifter you should have to roll off the throttle.. must be a bug
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 08:05:38 PM
Right Klax, beta3 didn't have the issue on shifting up. But even more of a bug is the clutchless down shift, and this has always been there as far as I can remember.

Admittedly, Piboso said once the gearbox simulation is not satisfactory at the moment.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: WALKEN on August 09, 2014, 08:29:17 PM
Wouldn't a ghost bike distract from development of important things such as  physics/netcode etc?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: matty0l215 on August 09, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: WALKEN on August 09, 2014, 08:29:17 PM
Wouldn't a ghost bike distract from development of important things such as  physics/netcode etc?
+1
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Arvoss on August 09, 2014, 08:36:47 PM
Quote from: WALKEN on August 09, 2014, 08:29:17 PM
Wouldn't a ghost bike distract from development of important things such as  physics/netcode etc?

The code is there as KRP has a ghost ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on August 09, 2014, 08:51:17 PM
Quote from: WALKEN on August 09, 2014, 08:29:17 PM
Wouldn't a ghost bike distract from development of important things such as  physics/netcode etc?

I agree, but I think, in my opinion, that all suggestions here are reported on the basis that the more important  issues like core.exe problem is fixed first before any of these other suggestions are worked on, with the exception in a case were maybe some of these suggestions could be implemented without too much work or development; only then in my opinion should any of these above suggestions be worked on, otherwise the core.exe problem should be of the highest priority. This is just my personal opinion.  ;)

PS: Personally I cannot see any need for a ghost bike. Max's plugin's enable anyone to see, in the proper way, were they need to improve around any circuit in my opinion. Ghost bikes are for games not sims.  :P

Hawk.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 09:00:04 PM
Well, actually my plugin is not for sims neither, as it shows your gap in real time while onboard, something that clearly does not happen in real life. In real life you do laps then you go to pits and check lap times and telemetry.

To me the #1 argument for ghost is simply that it allows people to improve faster, comparing plenty of stuff (e.g. trajectories) that is a bit difficult to compare otherwise. I'm for but I can surely live without, even if the argument "KRP has it" is hard to turn down: if possible, KRP is even more of a simulator than GPB.

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on August 09, 2014, 09:15:04 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 04:54:41 PM

Quote from: Hawk_UK on August 09, 2014, 04:20:22 PM
The only reason I'm still using the auto clutch with manual gear change at this time is because I'm still learning full manual riding right now and it's all I can do to not get information overload while operating all other manual controls right now.

Hmm ... I think you're mixing up the different options: Auto Clutch only helps you when starting from still. Shift Help, on the other hand, is something supposed to allow you to shift gears up (maybe even down) without using the clutch.

So setting Auto Clutch OFF and Shift Help ON, you can have manual clutch for the start and then shift gears manually (i.e. Automatic Shift OFF) but without using the clutch.

But there's a funny thing: if I recall correctly, right now, even on a bike without shifter like the varese, you can shift up without using the clutch and without lifting the throttle, even with Shift Help OFF. What's even stranger to me, you can even shift down without clutch.

On the mursasama, as it has a shifter, it is normal to be able to shift up without clutch/throttle lift, even if Shift help is OFF. However, the fact you can shift down with no clutch with Shift help OFF is still strange.

MaX.
Yes, I think your right Max, I have mixed them up.

I do have a stick axis set for manual clutch which I do use mostly for starting the 2 stroke bikes off and running, but I'm sure I have shift help set to on to allow for a smooth manual gear change because if shift help is set to off the manual gear change is very clunky without using the manual clutch, and getting used to using the manual clutch and throttle release for changing gears manually without the aid of shift help is a whole learning process in itself; but it is something I aim to work on in my quest for total manual GPB control.  ;) :)

Hawk
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on August 09, 2014, 09:24:36 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 09:00:04 PM
Well, actually my plugin is not for sims neither, as it shows your gap in real time while onboard, something that clearly does not happen in real life. In real life you do laps then you go to pits and check lap times and telemetry.

To me the #1 argument for ghost is simply that it allows people to improve faster, comparing plenty of stuff (e.g. trajectories) that is a bit difficult to compare otherwise. I'm for but I can surely live without, even if the argument "KRP has it" is hard to turn down: if possible, KRP is even more of a simulator than GPB.

MaX.

Sorry Max... I was thinking more of your telemetry data plugin being the reason for not needing a ghost rider. Surely looking at the telemetry data is the proper way of learning to improve your riding and performance, is it not?   :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on August 09, 2014, 09:47:37 PM
Ah OK Hawk, that makes sense.

Yes, telemetry would be the canonical way to go, but I understand it's a bit radical for anybody except the true hardcore ones.
Anyway, good or not,we already have our reply for the ghost stuff: it's a no, so we can move on to the next request.

Purely for realism sake, umbrella girls anybody ?  ;D

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on August 09, 2014, 10:07:03 PM
And a Umbrella dude for grTracey. lol
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: janaucarre on August 29, 2014, 01:08:30 PM
Hi,
To Piboso in first:
Is it possible to add a little thing:
A more explicit message than data mismatch.
We have had a discussion with other members and find that it can be very helpful to have a message saying if that's the track making a data mismatch, or the bike, and in this case wich bike(s) is/are ok or wich bike(s) is/are not ok. Is it possible?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: LOOPATELI on September 01, 2014, 09:12:36 AM
Is is possible to add a "lap counter" for each tire? I mean, we already know how much tire has been used and how much is left, but we don't know how many laps we did with those tires. It can be very useful for long races where we don't know what tire to use, and I think it won't be so difficult to implement
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on September 01, 2014, 09:22:52 AM
I did my first race using DST. Now the handle bars will always fall to one side or the other when standing still, and will center up once you start moving. But could we make them center up when we are walking the bike forward? It's really hard to get on the starting grid when the handle bars will no longer center when walking the bike. So I was moving the handle bars from side to side, trying to get it going as straight as I could.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: JJS209 on October 17, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
Idea: it would be nice when you entering the pitlane and come to your or any box to be able to use a key e.g. [G] to enter the pit-garage as to stop somewhere and have to press escape...
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on November 05, 2014, 03:16:15 AM
(Reposted here from my earlier thread)

Was thinking it would be cool to have a Modding tool, or built in to GP Bikes. That you can physically adjust the riding style. Not just pre-set styles Mod's. More like how bike setup is. You could adjust things like my tuck in, how far to I tuck in. When leaning at max lean does my butt hang off more then my upper body. Does your helmet and body go to the side of the wind screen or hang lower. Adjusting each setting could effect how helmet view is shown. At the same time, have limits to what would be realistic too. Same how bike setup is. Then you could save rider style as similar as a setup and give it to others.

Riding style could also effect how the bike handles. Then each riders style would reflect how the ride, same as setups do. The weight of the riders position may look cool. But it could effect how the bike handles for you.

Or have a program to adjust riding style, similar to the Bike Editor Piboso released a while ago. Drag different points of the body, for different positions. Neutral, Tucked in, Shallow Lean, Max Lean, etc. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Klax75 on January 25, 2015, 12:33:32 PM
In future releases can we have a option similar to iRacing, when you watch a replay, under the Laps section if you click on it will open a menu and give you a listing of all your lap times. Then you can select one of them, and the replay will jump to the beginning of that lap.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Alibaskins on February 04, 2015, 10:48:08 AM
Would it be possible to display all servers on World menu in game ?
ATM, we can see servers only if the track is installed on our PC, but maybe it would be nice to see them (in red ?).
It would be easier to join a server and to see all tracks to download.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Jose Reina on February 04, 2015, 10:57:23 AM
Quote from: Alibaskins on February 04, 2015, 10:48:08 AM
Would it be possible to display all servers on World menu in game ?
ATM, we can see servers only if the track is installed on our PC, but maybe it would be nice to see them (in red ?).
It would be easier to join a server and to see all tracks to download.
+1  :)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Jose Reina on February 09, 2015, 12:12:58 AM
The three basic things needed by the GPB already!

1. Core.exe Core.exe Core.exe Core.exe ... For when a life without CORES?

2. Problems in the race starts. Jump starts

3. Reappear on track. It could be a ghost mode for about 5 seconds? so you can not collide with anyone?

Only with these three basic things could run without any problems championship and races

This is something basic and we all know, because no one does anything about it? Why not put as solution to these problems?
Or these problems have no solution?

We should have an answer to this, which makes some people do not want to play GPB. I have many friends who have the game and not play by these problems, and other friends who do not buy until you can play safely championships and races.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Olaf Lehmann on April 10, 2015, 08:23:57 PM
Hello,

my wishes are...

1. I think in same situations should be much more feedback, especially  force feedback. In case of braking GP Bikes gives very good feedback I think. But in some corners in case of normally driving or under acceleration the bike reacts very suddenly, without any alert signal - no chance to reasting. It's very frustrating.
I don't know...maybe it's in real driving so, but real drivers feel much more feedback, that simulation drivers can't feel because they aren't sitting on the bike in reality.


2. How I wrote here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2168.0
"Big crash" Procedere like in SBK2001, but the Driver is running beside the roadway to the bike, not on the roadway.

Best Regards and thanks for the good work.
Olaf

Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: JJS209 on April 29, 2015, 02:46:18 PM
who decides where the reset of the bike will be? the author of the track or GPB itself?
however, it would increase the joy of online racing enormous, if you wont get taken down on the ideal line by someone who resets his bike.
no rider can do anything in this case and its very annoying when a hole group gets taken out because of such an easy bug. it was better on beta5 i think.

Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: JJS209 on May 19, 2015, 04:19:02 PM
decrease slipstream effect - its too strong in my opinion.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on May 19, 2015, 05:41:37 PM
Quote from: JJS209 on April 29, 2015, 02:46:18 PM
who decides where the reset of the bike will be? the author of the track or GPB itself?
however, it would increase the joy of online racing enormous, if you wont get taken down on the ideal line by someone who resets his bike.
no rider can do anything in this case and its very annoying when a hole group gets taken out because of such an easy bug. it was better on beta5 i think.

GPB decides were the rider is reset on track after a fall not the track authors.  ;)

Hawk
PS: I agree that the slipstream effect is still too long back.... it needs shortening still.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: JJS209 on July 21, 2015, 01:30:04 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 25, 2015, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: JJS209 on June 25, 2015, 10:11:23 AM
its not possible to add temp and pressure?
if it would be possible you would have added it already, i think.
At the moment not possible, GPB does not pass this info. If GPB passes it, then I'll surely do it.
will we have the tyrepressure in Beta7 mr.p?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Lengyel on September 17, 2015, 02:22:42 PM
When PiBoSo can deal with tiresome errors as:  disappearing under the asphalt driver... etc

My wishes is:

- Live View like this one: https://www.rfactorcentral.com/screenshots/lge/12-Apr-09-rFactorCentral-9642_rfm030-1.JPG - but it's probably more a request to the community

For the needs of endurance racing:
- driver change,
- refuel,
- change tires or motorcycle,
- damage model,
- day and night mode,
- the possibility of re-entry to the server in a situation when the game crash and the continuation of the race from the pits.

What more do you want?

And by the way... Good job PiBoSo! Respect for what you do!





Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: CapeDoctor on September 25, 2015, 06:15:55 AM
i'd like to add a little something to the wishlist, and that is to have trackmarks made, when a bike goes off and over the gravel-trap, for instance, it should leave trackmarks behind it - this feature has been in some really old bike games already, so i hope it's not too difficult to implement. would add a lot to the realism factor. thanks for reading.  ;D


edit - oops, i think i might have jumped the gun and posted in this thread prematurely?   :-\
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Hawk on September 25, 2015, 10:16:31 AM
Quote from: CapeDoctor on September 25, 2015, 06:15:55 AM
i'd like to add a little something to the wishlist, and that is to have trackmarks made, when a bike goes off and over the gravel-trap, for instance, it should leave trackmarks behind it - this feature has been in some really old bike games already, so i hope it's not too difficult to implement. would add a lot to the realism factor. thanks for reading.  ;D


edit - oops, i think i might have jumped the gun and posted in this thread prematurely?   :-\

If Piboso adds the deforming terrain to GPB that we see in MXB, then that is probably well possible to have wheel tracks created when entering sand pit and gravel traps, etc, etc..... Though if he did, he would also have to have a routine were-by the sand/gravel traps only were reset again after each race..... I say "only" because I'd like to see the deformable terrain used on tracks so that tyre rubber and trackside wear and tear could be saved and used on an on-going basis each time the track was used.  :)

More work for the track authors though. Hehe.  ;D

Hawk.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: HornetMaX on September 25, 2015, 10:25:15 AM
To me it's a lot of work for something purely visual. In MXB (and WRS on dirt tracks) it makes sense as you actually ride on the deforming track, but for GPB it would only be for the sand/gravel traps ...

It could probably be implemented in a less expensive way than MXB's terrain deformation (as deformation of sand-traps is not race-critical, it could be managed by the client instead of the server, avoiding extra network load). Still, quite some work ...

There's plenty of eye-candy that is missing in GPB, the list is quite long ...

MaX.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: CapeDoctor on September 25, 2015, 12:21:47 PM
my suggestion is only if it's not much work - of course, if it's a mountain of potential coding, then it's probably not worth it.
still on my 'would be nice' wishlist, though ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: iliekracing23 on October 31, 2015, 08:26:04 AM
I'd like to see three main things:

1: More assists for beginning players/players who don't have good controllers: I know it's a simulation, but for new players it can be an uphill climb to get better at the start, especially with the different brakes and it's made worse with a poor controller (that can't be configured or be smooth as other controllers' options). Something like dual braking as seen in the MotoGP Milestone games would be a good start and get more eyes and players to the product.

2: Better crash animations/not having the rider disappear underneath the track: Just would help immersion and realism a lot more and would probably start a trend for crash videos and compilations, furthering promotion of the game. After all, nowadays the best and easiest way to get your game big is by getting it trending on YouTube and other online sites.

3: AI: Not a lot of people like playing online, like myself. Don't doubt it would be hard to program, but considering we're still in beta stage it wouldn't hurt to try out and tweak it/patch it as the game progresses through beta to a full game.

Other than that so far, GPB's becoming one of the best bike games out there. Keep up the great work PiBoSo!  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: yoshimura on November 02, 2015, 07:04:42 PM
feet and boots disproportionate to the bike, to correct in the future.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: yoshimura on November 04, 2015, 10:38:29 AM
an error text file would be implanted as in all games to finally understand the problem ::)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Boerenlater on March 04, 2016, 09:03:57 PM
Request: anti wheelie adjustable from the cockpit like you can already do with TC EB and engine mode on supported bikes.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 27, 2017, 12:02:45 PM
Quote from: Boerenlater on March 04, 2016, 09:03:57 PM
Request: anti wheelie adjustable from the cockpit like you can already do with TC EB and engine mode on supported bikes.

I propose again this thing...AW adjustable from the cockpit
Thank you PiBoSo
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Micronex on September 05, 2017, 05:45:06 PM
The AI would be really great, driving alone is good, but for me atleast stupid AI will be better than never ending time trials. Online can be good, but I see only two empty servers all the time and I dont think that Im good enough to jump into mp servers right now.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: tchemi on September 05, 2017, 06:43:09 PM
Quote from: Micronex on September 05, 2017, 05:45:06 PM
I dont think that Im good enough to jump into mp servers right now.

You should ! That's how you would imrove your skills. Like IRL, talking with other riders ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: PeterV on September 05, 2017, 07:01:05 PM
Check here too see what servers are online.

GP Bikes Stats: Servers (http://stats.gp-bikes.com/servers.php)
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Reactive on February 17, 2018, 12:33:06 PM
(https://1.downloader.disk.yandex.ru/preview/5a4108eb865a3d289d4ba99a577bb8f4502308d74125b456f03368ff9e1bf975/inf/e2vLCL96iw0rvJwCAQupR8V45-mcJERtbUqAxgaRfQNbx3x0gkMfpDb63UMugiimAA1tQtkjiBhH5xCnCce9SQ%3D%3D?uid=0&filename=wishes1.jpg&disposition=inline&hash=&limit=0&content_type=image%2Fjpeg&tknv=v2&size=XXL&crop=0)

show Autochat messages on the left side of Chat window, when chat is visible.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: KG_03 on September 09, 2019, 03:33:17 PM
I miss a little head shake depending on the speed of the bike. It would give more immersion to the onboard racing.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Gregz0r on March 14, 2020, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: iliekracing23 on October 31, 2015, 08:26:04 AMI'd like to see three main things:

1: More assists for beginning players/players who don't have good controllers: I know it's a simulation, but for new players it can be an uphill climb to get better at the start, especially with the different brakes and it's made worse with a poor controller (that can't be configured or be smooth as other controllers' options). Something like dual braking as seen in the MotoGP Milestone games would be a good start and get more eyes and players to the product.

2: Better crash animations/not having the rider disappear underneath the track: Just would help immersion and realism a lot more and would probably start a trend for crash videos and compilations, furthering promotion of the game. After all, nowadays the best and easiest way to get your game big is by getting it trending on YouTube and other online sites.

3: AI: Not a lot of people like playing online, like myself. Don't doubt it would be hard to program, but considering we're still in beta stage it wouldn't hurt to try out and tweak it/patch it as the game progresses through beta to a full game.

Other than that so far, GPB's becoming one of the best bike games out there. Keep up the great work PiBoSo!  ;D
A.I is a huge one, IMO. Hot-lapping and chasing ghosts/trainers is cool, but we do need the ability to create grids, and race some scalable a.i.
where are we gonna find 20+ grids online at any time?
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: Vini on March 14, 2020, 07:14:30 PM
Zombie thread but will reply anyway.
Making even a half decent AI for a motorcycle sim is extremely timeconsuming and out of the scope for a one-man-devteam.
There are simply too many parameters to consider.

*Edit: Also consider that for bikes the AI pretty much has to be perfect. Imagine how frustratring it would be to be knocked off the bike as soon as things start to get close. Cars can bump into each other without much problem for the most part.
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: morvio100 on September 28, 2022, 07:35:37 AM
Vini....@"Zombie thread but will reply anyway.
Making even a half decent AI for a motorcycle sim is extremely timeconsuming and out of the scope for a one-man-devteam.
There are simply too many parameters to consider.".....disagree entirely...have you seen the quality of the
the base physics of WRS...when it was released ...back in the day..reckon, if the Great One = Piboso...had decided back in the day to release that with well coded AI = ZERO DEV MONEY ISSUES going forward - for his passion of bikes - this guy Piboso..is some sort of physics savant..imo..well within his abilities....reckon he may surprise some day...with a slow ,modular introduction of a fully customizable "one opponent rider"....I'd say the primary reason he stayed clear of AI ...is the sheer amount of calculations the engine would be required to make "realtime" for eg( a +10/15/20 Offline grid = an insane demand on cpu/gpu...likely an engine optimization issue.. ..I reckon coding AI is well within this guys scope...long live GpB..
Title: Re: Suggestions and wishlist recap
Post by: morvio100 on November 01, 2022, 09:59:09 PM
Micronex "The AI would be really great, driving alone is good, but for me atleast stupid AI will be better than never ending time trials. Online can be good, but I see only two empty servers all the time and I dont think that Im good enough to jump into mp servers right now"


The GREAT DEBATE ...THE AI Question....I personally cant see the Great One = Piboso ..introducing AI tbh..if he hasn't introduced it *or hinted at it...at this point...(Imo if he had experimented with KRP ...in this regard ..just to see what people thought = The sales would more than likely ..would have shot through the roof) he is unlikely to do so...but your point is a very valid one...I see little point in introducing it unless its coded with a very detailed collision model...little point in having basic AI...would likely produce a lot of collision CLIPPING..as seen in the early days of Rfactor/collision clipping is even worse in IRacing to this present day = despite all the work that has been done on the IRacing damage model - some of which is very good - some not so good...some Rfactor mods had to be pain stakingly tweaked with regard collision settings in .ini files ..done correctly ...worked very well...was worth it because Rfactor has such a good damage model....but were talking bikes here...!!...were high speed collisions/ even very slight collisions/and touching ...MATTER HUGELY...a trainer tweak...here/or there would be great though...
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