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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hawk on September 14, 2018, 09:05:03 am

Title: Hawk's rant
Post by: Hawk on September 14, 2018, 09:05:03 am
Quote from: davidboda46 on September 13, 2018, 07:29:08 pm
Are any of you wizards (modders) working on an update on the Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli circuit? The one that exists in the Track Database is based on the old layout with the chicane (when it also went in the other direction) and the version that we have now that goes in the current direction has the track markers (corner signs) turned the wrong way.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46


Personally speaking, I've stopped doing any mod-work until Piboso updates/develops his export Mod-tools to work as they should work with the products we can produce direct from professional 3D apps..... When that is done(if it ever will be) then I'll be back modding for GPB again...... Just so much potential that is sadly being held back by apparent bad development priority decisions by Piboso in my opinion. Modding is the life-blood of Piboso's projects and yet the modding tool development apparently is being grossly neglected right now..... It's sad.  :(

Maybe Piboso has his good reasons for not developing the MOD-export tools further right now? I don't know because he doesn't tell us these things, so I can only come to the conclusion I have stated above.  :)

Hopefully Piboso could enlighten us to his reasons and  future intentions/plans for these tools with some kind of approx timeline for any improvement release?
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 10:05:56 am

It was just a track request, this message was wildly OT.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Hawk on September 14, 2018, 11:29:37 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 10:05:56 am

It was just a track request, this message was wildly OT.


Why was it wildly OT Piboso? :o :o
I was the one who did the Track-Mod David was talking about(unless someone has released a newer version since?).  :P

Isn't a track request a MOD work request in your book?

Doesn't my statement relate to modding issues/concerns and is therefore valid?

Criticism is part and parcel of being a dev, especially when the dev doesn't communicate with their community very well.... Some people never learn it seems.

Wouldn't it have been better to have addressed my statement, of which I gave you the benefit of the doubt by saying that maybe I don't know if there could be a good reason for the lack of updates/dev with the mod-tools, rather than throw your dummy out of the pram like this?

Treating people like this who have done much Mod work and would like to continue to mod for GPB is just a fools err in my opinion?

Great job your doing here.... good luck with that Piboso! :P


Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 12:04:07 pm
Modding tools are like the fifth project, besides GPB, WRS, KRP and MXB.

There is no deliberate attempt to avoid working on the modding tools.
Unfortunately, they have low priority at the moment because:
1) there are still a lot of improvements to do on motocross and cars physics
2) netcode has a lot of issues, especially with MX
3) multiplayer lacks some features that the community deems indispensable, at least for a Steam release
4) the currently available tools are exactly the same used internally to create the "official" content. They cannot be THAT bad...
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Manu on September 14, 2018, 01:35:38 pm
My problem is not with the tools themselves. My problem is the lack of support for the modders.

The information is practically nil. Almost all work is based on trial and error.

If this game has as a pillar the modders why there is not a decent support for them? I've been here for a few years and 80% of what I do I've had to find out on my own.

I have asked a lot of times without answers about how to get some things (rider animations, personalized skeletons, etc) but I have never been answered.

Anyone who wants to start in the world of modding in gpbikes has it really difficult.

On the other hand, I have always had the impression that gpbikes is in the background of their priorities and every time I see more people who are unhappy or just gone.

Honestly, in part I'm starting to get bored with this. I like doing things more than playing the game. It's more I think I've spent more time doing work than playing.

Like Hawk, I think I will be away for a while and come back in the future if the game and support has changed for the better.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Davide74 on September 14, 2018, 01:43:57 pm
Well pity the truth ... for a good game of motorcycles that there is and that this way the subject ... perhaps with competition Piboso change of attitude, even that I doubt it ..



Pues que pena la verdad... para un juego bueno de motos que hay y que este asi el tema... quiza con competencia Piboso cambie de actitud, aun que lo dudo..
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 01:56:46 pm
Quote from: Manu on September 14, 2018, 01:35:38 pm
My problem is not with the tools themselves. My problem is the lack of support for the modders.

The information is practically nil. Almost all work is based on trial and error.

If this game has as a pillar the modders why there is not a decent support for them? I've been here for a few years and 80% of what I do I've had to find out on my own.

I have asked a lot of times without answers about how to get some things (rider animations, personalized skeletons, etc) but I have never been answered.

Anyone who wants to start in the world of modding in gpbikes has it really difficult.


You are right.
GP Bikes and the other projects desperately need modding documentation, tutorials and examples.
The problem is that, as usual, doing all of that would take A LOT of time.
And sadly time is a very scarce resource.

Can you name any other sim, made by a small development team, that has great modding tools?
Most sims don't even have modding support...
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 02:05:42 pm
Quote from: Davide74 on September 14, 2018, 01:43:57 pm
Well pity the truth ... for a good game of motorcycles that there is and that this way the subject ... perhaps with competition Piboso change of attitude, even that I doubt it ..



Pues que pena la verdad... para un juego bueno de motos que hay y que este asi el tema... quiza con competencia Piboso cambie de actitud, aun que lo dudo..


For me it's sad that you think it's an "attitude" problem  :'(
I'm trying to do the best with what I have, that is very little...
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Davide74 on September 14, 2018, 02:15:02 pm
Maybe I was wrong about the attitude, I'm sorry if I upset him. But as I understand and taking into account the language barrier for me, I think I have read many times that there are people willing to help but you do not want to.

Quizás estaba equivocado en lo de la actitud, lo siento si le molesto. Pero segun tengo entendido y teniendo en cuenta la barrera del idioma para mi, creo haber leido muchas veces que hay gente dispuesta a ayudar pero usted no quiere.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Hawk on September 14, 2018, 03:05:42 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 12:04:07 pm
Modding tools are like the fifth project, besides GPB, WRS, KRP and MXB.

There is no deliberate attempt to avoid working on the modding tools.
Unfortunately, they have low priority at the moment because:
1) there are still a lot of improvements to do on motocross and cars physics
2) netcode has a lot of issues, especially with MX
3) multiplayer lacks some features that the community deems indispensable, at least for a Steam release
4) the currently available tools are exactly the same used internally to create the "official" content. They cannot be THAT bad...


Thank you for your response and explanation Piboso and I appreciate it even more considering you thought my statement was just a rant.....

If I may suggest, and I know I'm going to get some bad reactions from a couple of guys but that's life, we can't please everyone right, but if I could suggest with all respect to those concerned from a point of sensible sales priority reasons that you put WRS(which let's face it is supported by about 2, 3, maybe 4 people from the evidence here) on hold for the foreseeable future until your other projects are complete(v1.0 releases)? After all, WRS is a free project sold as a side product of buying GPBikes, right? So there will be no come-back from anyone saying they payed good money for WRS and feeling it should be updated on a regular basis, that is if they are reasonable people of course.  :)
This would then surely allow you to slot in the work for improving/updating the mod-tools for modders, especially the exporter tool/workflow which, shall I say, is not as user friendly as it could be by a long way(for reasons I and others have pointed out many times in the past), especially for newcomers to modding for your projects?

The MOD-Tools are a very important set of utilities for your projects with ultimately the potential increase in sales that come from the mods available, and even you have stated above that you have given the modding tools a "Low Priority", so I'd beg to disagree with your reasons why.....
In my opinion, the MOD-Tools, their use and, as Manu has very rightly stated in his post above, the information required to do a good job when modding should be a very high priority only put aside if you have an urgent fix to remedy in your projects. Sales should be uppermost in your priorities and the quality as well as the great number and variety of different mods are what ultimately attracts people to part with their cash to buy your projects. It's the modding potential and your brilliant physics programming that go together to make buying your projects worth the cost in my opinion.

Just noticed and read your last post Piboso...... and it seems to me that even after all this time you still don't see the strengths that GPbikes has over any other foreseeable competition, even an upcoming project like BSE?
We know your only a small team and you can only do so much within a given time-frame, and this in great respect is what makes us/me so frustrated to know that if only you could give us the tools and information we want then the modding community could make things so much easier for you as far as great quality content was concerned. Then you could concentrate on polishing what you've already done and possibly later updating the visual quality to DX11-12 capabilities, whether you do that with OpenGL, DX  or both is up to you.
But I think that if you use the time between now and any other potential competitors coming onto the market to just polish up what you already have and get it all working solidly and user friendly then anything else that comes on the market will have a hard time competing, especially long term, with what you already have here with GPBikes.

All we're basically asking from you as modders Piboso is to give us the tools and information we want/need to do a great job with the apps we use(and many of us do and can use industry standard pro-apps, we are not amateurs in that respect).  :)
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Mace-x on September 14, 2018, 03:24:53 pm
First, thanks piboso for the reply and feedback, I know that on the list, physics and netcode are first but man, I've never ever modded a game that supported modding and was as time consuming as your sims, they take a shitload of time of trial and error!

And regarding a small game with better support, MX Simulator.

1-Track editor are accessible from the riding area, you are riding a track and want to modify it? Boom, make a jump and try it instantly, it has proper terrain modelling, Decal texturing and oblect placement tools, it takes literally 30 minutes to come with a simple yet cool track.

2-Texturing is just png files, no alpha channel mess and no packing into .pnt, just create a folder and drop the textures there, tbh pnt workflow is nice and I like it but man, documentation, took me 3 hours to try to figure out how to change the stock wheels reflection and normal maps and I failed miserably!!!

Bike model importing seems to be checked, but please do at least a textures workflow tutorial, a track tools tutorial and a track object import tutorial, something not messy, straightforward and understand able please!

I really want to mod but is so annoying and frustrating!
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Grooveski on September 14, 2018, 04:07:59 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 01:56:46 pm
GP Bikes and the other projects desperately need modding documentation, tutorials and examples.
The problem is that, as usual, doing all of that would take A LOT of time.
And sadly time is a very scarce resource.


Most of my trial-and-error sessions were with things that would only take a line or two in the Track Creation Rules page to clear up.

For instance:

Shaders section - all the example Shinyness values are 6.
...but there's no scale mentioned - So is 6 a minimum?  ...a maximum?  ...a little?  ...a lot? 

Starting lights section - A note on self-illumination would fit in well there.  It only gets mentioned briefly on the MXB(or KRP) forum somewhere.  I'd never have heard of it if h106frp hadn't pointed out the post.

Texture Animation section - maybe a note on limits.  "Animations should be 52 frames or less and you may have up to 6 instancies per part."

Notes section - "N-gons should be changed to triangles prior to conversion"
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Manu on September 14, 2018, 04:36:18 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 01:56:46 pm
You are right.
GP Bikes and the other projects desperately need modding documentation, tutorials and examples.
The problem is that, as usual, doing all of that would take A LOT of time.
And sadly time is a very scarce resource.


I understand you perfectly. Time is a limited resource.

I know they are a small team and that has a lot of merit. But perhaps you could have organized your priorities a little better. For example, the Piboso documentation takes years without being modified / added nothing . Now it would take a huge amount of time to update when it could have been progressively updated as the content appears.

If I am allowed the suggestion, I think that a good option would be to release the base content of the game (models, textures, skeletons, animations, etc.) along with the tools. That would save the modders a lot of research time.

I also agree with Hawks regarding WRS. Without offending anyone, I think it should be the last of his priorities since it is a product that is offered free of charge.

Finally I also want to launch a question. I've always wondered why you did not unify the graphics / physics engine for your 4 projects.

Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 01:56:46 pm
Can you name any other sim, made by a small development team, that has great modding tools?
Most sims don't even have modding support...


Answering your question.

Now rFactor and netKar-pro comes to mind.

On the other hand, most simulators don't have support for modding.

Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: tirespin24 on September 14, 2018, 05:28:07 pm
Well I would be good with all of this if I was to get a refund for WRS because I didn't get it free for buying GBP bikes. It was the other way around. WRS being a byproduct of GBP Bikes explains the waste of time on the asphalt cars. WRS had a lot of potential of doing many different types of dirt series and not just oval cars. As far as updates go, WRS hasn't had a real update in a very long time. It still doesn't even have the heat races that were talked about over a year ago.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Hawk on September 14, 2018, 06:19:50 pm
Quote from: tirespin24 on September 14, 2018, 05:28:07 pm
Well I would be good with all of this if I was to get a refund for WRS because I didn't get it free for buying GBP bikes. It was the other way around. WRS being a byproduct of GBP Bikes explains the waste of time on the asphalt cars. WRS had a lot of potential of doing many different types of dirt series and not just oval cars. As far as updates go, WRS hasn't had a real update in a very long time. It still doesn't even have the heat races that were talked about over a year ago.


My apologies and I stand corrected in that there are also those that also just bought WRS and got the free key for GPB; I didn't realise that was the case. ;)

No offence intended to Piboso or yourself Tirespin, but what the heck are you so concerned about WRS for when you have the likes of rFactor 2 or similar at your disposal? Hard to understand that one.  ???
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 08:29:27 pm
Bison160 offered to create a mod for WRS, but needs some improvements, that were already planned but so far routinely postponed.
This is probably the last train for WRS, even if it's only used by three persons. I prefer two than none.

At the moment the very, VERY rough plan is:
release a KRP update tomorrow
release a WRS  update later this month
release an MXB update early next month
release a GPB and another WRS ( with heats support ) update in october
no-stop until MXB will be on Steam

All of this while trying ( and mostly failing  :-[ ) to reply to the endless stream of emails, messages and private messages ( from four different forums ).

Hopefully at the end of this tour de force there will finally be time for tools and documentation.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: connorhall70 on September 15, 2018, 06:42:34 am
Quote from: Hawk on September 14, 2018, 09:05:03 am
Quote from: davidboda46 on September 13, 2018, 07:29:08 pm
Are any of you wizards (modders) working on an update on the Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli circuit? The one that exists in the Track Database is based on the old layout with the chicane (when it also went in the other direction) and the version that we have now that goes in the current direction has the track markers (corner signs) turned the wrong way.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46


Personally speaking, I've stopped doing any mod-work until Piboso updates/develops his export Mod-tools to work as they should work with the products we can produce direct from professional 3D apps..... When that is done(if it ever will be) then I'll be back modding for GPB again...... Just so much potential that is sadly being held back by apparent bad development priority decisions by Piboso in my opinion. Modding is the life-blood of Piboso's projects and yet the modding tool development apparently is being grossly neglected right now..... It's sad.  :(

Maybe Piboso has his good reasons for not developing the MOD-export tools further right now? I don't know because he doesn't tell us these things, so I can only come to the conclusion I have stated above.  :)

Hopefully Piboso could enlighten us to his reasons and  future intentions/plans for these tools with some kind of approx timeline for any improvement release?


::)
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: tirespin24 on September 16, 2018, 12:44:25 pm
Quote from: Hawk on September 14, 2018, 06:19:50 pm
Quote from: tirespin24 on September 14, 2018, 05:28:07 pm
Well I would be good with all of this if I was to get a refund for WRS because I didn't get it free for buying GBP bikes. It was the other way around. WRS being a byproduct of GBP Bikes explains the waste of time on the asphalt cars. WRS had a lot of potential of doing many different types of dirt series and not just oval cars. As far as updates go, WRS hasn't had a real update in a very long time. It still doesn't even have the heat races that were talked about over a year ago.


My apologies and I stand corrected in that there are also those that also just bought WRS and got the free key for GPB; I didn't realise that was the case. ;)

No offence intended to Piboso or yourself Tirespin, but what the heck are you so concerned about WRS for when you have the likes of rFactor 2 or similar at your disposal? Hard to understand that one.  ???


I agree Hawk that rFactor 2 is the way to go for asphalt racing and mods. I am the last name mentioned in rFactor 2 credits. I planned on doing some asphalt mods when rFactor 2 was released but I got very sick. However it isn't very good for dirt! It suffers from the same problem that iracing has. The driving lines are predetermined. Track progression is triggered (fake). We can drive a high line all race but yet the bottom is what gets slick. Neither of them do a very good job of creating the ruts that are made when driving on dirt either.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 01:53:43 pm
Quote from: tirespin24 on September 16, 2018, 12:44:25 pm
Quote from: Hawk on September 14, 2018, 06:19:50 pm
Quote from: tirespin24 on September 14, 2018, 05:28:07 pm
Well I would be good with all of this if I was to get a refund for WRS because I didn't get it free for buying GBP bikes. It was the other way around. WRS being a byproduct of GBP Bikes explains the waste of time on the asphalt cars. WRS had a lot of potential of doing many different types of dirt series and not just oval cars. As far as updates go, WRS hasn't had a real update in a very long time. It still doesn't even have the heat races that were talked about over a year ago.


My apologies and I stand corrected in that there are also those that also just bought WRS and got the free key for GPB; I didn't realise that was the case. ;)

No offence intended to Piboso or yourself Tirespin, but what the heck are you so concerned about WRS for when you have the likes of rFactor 2 or similar at your disposal? Hard to understand that one.  ???


I agree Hawk that rFactor 2 is the way to go for asphalt racing and mods. I am the last name mentioned in rFactor 2 credits. I planned on doing some asphalt mods when rFactor 2 was released but I got very sick. However it isn't very good for dirt! It suffers from the same problem that iracing has. The driving lines are predetermined. Track progression is triggered (fake). We can drive a high line all race but yet the bottom is what gets slick. Neither of them do a very good job of creating the ruts that are made when driving on dirt either.


I'm sure Studio397 will get around to sorting out any issues they have with the dirt racing side of rFactor 2 as soon as they have finished polishing the recent conversion to DX11..... They have done an amazing job so far with rFactor 2, I'm sure you'd agree, with the very professional way they deal with the development itself, regular updates, content and their customers I'm sure they'll get around to sorting those dirt track issues you mentioned at some stage in their plans, especially if the community make a strong call for it.  ;)

Personally speaking, I'm so impressed with what Studio 397 have achieved so far with rFactor 2 and their business model.... I can only see rFactor 2 going from strength to strength despite many claiming it was a dead product a couple of years ago now..... Just goes to show that things can be sorted out with products that have great potential if the will is there to do it and they are willing to produce what the fans want. :)
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 16, 2018, 08:25:03 pm
Quote from: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 01:53:43 pm
I'm sure Studio397 will get around to sorting out any issues they have with the dirt racing side of rFactor 2 as soon as they have finished polishing the recent conversion to DX11..... They have done an amazing job so far with rFactor 2, I'm sure you'd agree, with the very professional way they deal with the development itself, regular updates, content and their customers I'm sure they'll get around to sorting those dirt track issues you mentioned at some stage in their plans, especially if the community make a strong call for it.  ;)


LOL
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 08:39:55 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 16, 2018, 08:25:03 pm
Quote from: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 01:53:43 pm
I'm sure Studio397 will get around to sorting out any issues they have with the dirt racing side of rFactor 2 as soon as they have finished polishing the recent conversion to DX11..... They have done an amazing job so far with rFactor 2, I'm sure you'd agree, with the very professional way they deal with the development itself, regular updates, content and their customers I'm sure they'll get around to sorting those dirt track issues you mentioned at some stage in their plans, especially if the community make a strong call for it.  ;)


LOL


Haha! If your laughing at that statement then you obviously haven't been following what's been happening at Studio 397 lately, Piboso??  Which to be honest I find hard to believe. :P ;D
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 16, 2018, 09:54:28 pm
Quote from: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 08:39:55 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 16, 2018, 08:25:03 pm
Quote from: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 01:53:43 pm
I'm sure Studio397 will get around to sorting out any issues they have with the dirt racing side of rFactor 2 as soon as they have finished polishing the recent conversion to DX11..... They have done an amazing job so far with rFactor 2, I'm sure you'd agree, with the very professional way they deal with the development itself, regular updates, content and their customers I'm sure they'll get around to sorting those dirt track issues you mentioned at some stage in their plans, especially if the community make a strong call for it.  ;)


LOL


Haha! If your laughing at that statement then you obviously haven't been following what's been happening at Studio 397 lately, Piboso??  Which to be honest I find hard to believe. :P ;D


If you say so. Waiting for the announcement of their fully dynamic deformable terrain. Any minute now  ;)
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 10:47:51 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 16, 2018, 09:54:28 pm
Quote from: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 08:39:55 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 16, 2018, 08:25:03 pm
Quote from: Hawk on September 16, 2018, 01:53:43 pm
I'm sure Studio397 will get around to sorting out any issues they have with the dirt racing side of rFactor 2 as soon as they have finished polishing the recent conversion to DX11..... They have done an amazing job so far with rFactor 2, I'm sure you'd agree, with the very professional way they deal with the development itself, regular updates, content and their customers I'm sure they'll get around to sorting those dirt track issues you mentioned at some stage in their plans, especially if the community make a strong call for it.  ;)


LOL


Haha! If your laughing at that statement then you obviously haven't been following what's been happening at Studio 397 lately, Piboso??  Which to be honest I find hard to believe. :P ;D


If you say so. Waiting for the announcement of their fully dynamic deformable terrain. Any minute now  ;)


So that's what you were laughing at. Lol  ;D
Well, I'm sure it won't be anytime soon cause they are busy with other things, but don't be surprised if this time next year they'll have sorted that out or at least working on adding that capability. The shear attention to detail on all their other work to date surely indicates that they won't leave the dirt track side of things half done.... But if there is a call for it then they'll get it all sorted I'm sure of it.  ;)

You must admit though Piboso, the work Studio 397 have done with rFactor 2 since they took it on is very good indeed and improving in leaps and bounds now from what it was 2 years ago?
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Phathry25 on September 16, 2018, 11:37:56 pm
That's all fine and dandy.  They have not ever shown any interest in dirt racing though.  PiBoSo's system is better anyways, and has loads more potential anyways.  As far as the track side of the game what WRS offers is far better than anything iRacing or rFactor 2 have shown so far.  That's why its the option being pursued.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Stout Johnson on September 17, 2018, 07:33:36 am
Quote from: Phathry25 on September 16, 2018, 11:37:56 pm
That's all fine and dandy.  They have not ever shown any interest in dirt racing though.  PiBoSo's system is better anyways, and has loads more potential anyways.  As far as the track side of the game what WRS offers is far better than anything iRacing or rFactor 2 have shown so far.  That's why its the option being pursued.

I think you are both right. rFactor 2 is generally the sim to go with and they have come a long way - from a great sim with lack of appeal to a even better sim with also a great presentation. But in terms of dirt WRS is unmatched yet and it has great potential. In oval dirt racing and everything concerned Rally and Rallycross WRS has a shitload of potential customers. Both are niche markets but still could reach a fair amount of sim lovers. In terms of Rally, simmers still use Richard Burns Rally (which is from friggin 2004!) but it is really becoming very out-dated. WRS could be huge if it could be the mod-basis for the Rally Sim lovers, but WRS lacks rally content/mods at the moment, which is so sad. :-\

Quote from: PiBoSo on September 14, 2018, 08:29:27 pm
All of this while trying ( and mostly failing  :-[ ) to reply to the endless stream of emails, messages and private messages ( from four different forums ).

Hopefully at the end of this tour de force there will finally be time for tools and documentation.

Considering how time consuming all these administrative tasks are, maybe you should consider out-sourcing the communicative tasks to someone who is willing to help you in this matter. Maybe a trusted moderator of this forum could volunteer to support you in this matter, so you have more time focussing on your main tasks? It is absolutely insane to have the brain of your small company (you) do these tasks when time is that scarce. Give out general guidelines for your communication and let the general communication be done by someone else, you doing only the important ones that can not be delegated.

In terms of (lack of) documentation of your sims and (lack of) documentation of your mod tools, you should really force yourself to do these things "on the fly" (while developping/altering stuff). In that way, you would have a very manageable workload every day (I would estimate 15-30mins) to keep your documentation up-to-date. If avoiding these tasks on a regular basis, it will come back to haunt you in the long run.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 17, 2018, 07:27:38 pm

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/sim-racing-expo-2018-day-1-in-review.159452/page-4#post-2829959

LOL
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 17, 2018, 07:35:26 pm
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/sim-racing-expo-2018-day-1-in-review.159452/page-5#post-2830226

;D

So, to recap: I work alone on four projects and Hawk blames the poor tools. Meanwhile his favourite sim, developed by a full studio focusing on one software only, ...
Oh the humanity!  :P
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: matty0l215 on September 17, 2018, 07:59:31 pm
.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 17, 2018, 08:14:08 pm

To be clear: not trying to defend the GPB modding tools and documentation...
Just having fun with the irony of citing as reference a development studio that is actually severely lacking  ;D
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: matty0l215 on September 17, 2018, 08:18:10 pm
Okay, let's start with something.

What documentation, if any, do you have?

Anything is better than what we currently have. I am working on a Wiki so anything from your end would be a massive help.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: PiBoSo on September 17, 2018, 08:29:12 pm

http://docs.piboso.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: matty0l215 on September 17, 2018, 08:37:49 pm
Okay

Have you not got anything else written down? (not nessecerrily in a tutorial form) but you surely have all the processes noted somewhere?
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: Hawk on September 18, 2018, 12:12:53 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 17, 2018, 07:35:26 pm
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/sim-racing-expo-2018-day-1-in-review.159452/page-4#post-2829959

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/sim-racing-expo-2018-day-1-in-review.159452/page-5#post-2830226

;D

So, to recap: I work alone on four projects and Hawk blames the poor tools. Meanwhile his favourite sim, developed by a full studio focusing on one software only, ...
Oh the humanity!  :P

Quote from: PiBoSo on September 17, 2018, 08:14:08 pm

To be clear: not trying to defend the GPB modding tools and documentation...
Just having fun with the irony of citing as reference a development studio that is actually severely lacking  ;D


Firstly with all respect Piboso - Can I point out that indeed rFactor 2 is my favourite "CAR" simulation(for obvious reasons), but also that GPBikes is my favourite "BIKE" Simulation....... ;)

My opinion on what I think is going on with the modding side of rFactor 2: It is my opinion that Studio 397 will and are trying to shift the modding over to contracted third party modders but also to allow other non-contracted third party modders to only submit(but not publish) their mods for possible inclusion for rFactor 2 content and potential third party contracts for possible future mod project content inclusion..... I believe open modding for rFactor 2 in it's pure form will end simply because they are now wanting very good and professional quality mod content only, in my opinion..... Take the Karting mod as an example of what I think will end up being the only way, for third party mod-dev's, to produce accepted mods for rFactor 2 in the very near future. It allows Studio 397 to keep control of the mod content and that will in itself keep rFactor 2's reputation in tact as well as lead to increased sales, in my opinion, and obviously some people are objecting to that transition(whether they realise it or not) from open modding to contracted third-party modding only..... Let's wait and see what happens with that opinion.  ;)

As far as anything else said is concerned..... Let's just wait and see shall we. :P ;D
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: KG_03 on September 18, 2018, 06:50:57 am
Well IMO one of the problems with GP Bikes is that mods are very different and are not unified in matter of physics, behaviour, camera position and so on. One bikes are very realistic and others are more like arcade racing. As was said before without proper modding support making the content that will be enjoyable takes a lot of time. Honestly if the models and tracks werent ported from other games, GP Bikes would be boring very fast.
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: poumpouny on September 18, 2018, 08:22:24 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on September 17, 2018, 07:35:26 pm
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/sim-racing-expo-2018-day-1-in-review.159452/page-5#post-2830226

;D

So, to recap: I work alone on four projects and Hawk blames the poor tools. Meanwhile his favourite sim, developed by a full studio focusing on one software only, ...
Oh the humanity!  :P


I Think this is the main problem, with all respect i have to you, it is almost impossible and i don't either understand how did you manage to hold that till now. When big studio is focusing on specalized simulation game nowaday , you're develloping 4 sim alone  ;D. The good thing is that you're polishing the base physics of all you're sim, wich is ok for me, but not everybody is that patient.

If i can tell you an advice, i think you should take a full year devellopement on a particular sim (WRS, GPB or MXB) cause KRP is already on steam. Polish it, and make some new base content and documentation, and release it on steam, then switch on other sim for the next year and so on ...

The thing is that you're jumping for sim to sim almost each month, so you almost make all your sim customer wait for 4years at least to have a significant stat of devellopement. I think you have to choose wich sim is the most sustainable commercialy, then prioritize it.

My 2 cents !
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: janaucarre on September 18, 2018, 09:15:09 am
Since years i want to create a complete video and written tutorial for track, i made some and posted here, but not a complete one.
So my problem is "TIME" it is very long to do a track, to make chapter, making error and note them for those who probably will do them to.
Another problem is the different manner to do a track, conversion from rfactor, 1,2, from assetto corsa or other sim, texture size, missing texture after import, wich application used, 3ds max, blender, maya ?
So many things. And of course the quality of the original track.
Even with a track i made with bobs track builder or race track builder or 3dsmax it asks to think about many little detail for the smoothing of the road.

My only question is:
Will we have a edf and so exporter for more recent 3dsmax one day, 2010 become very old and limited.
Thank you
Title: Re: Hawk's rant
Post by: bison160 on September 18, 2018, 06:49:05 pm
Just to throw my 2 cents in here...Even though I'm just one of the "2 or 3" guys that has interest in WRS.  ::)

If PiBoSo does the few things NEEDED for a proper dirt sim, WRS will be the base for a dirt sim that can be even better than iracing, which will draw a huge volume of sales for the software. There is very modest interest here now because there is nothing to bring them here. PiBoSo laid out the base for it but there is very little finished content available. That will soon change.

As far as rf2. I have released a fairly successful sim based on their engine so honestly would prefer to work with it. I think the physics capabilities are great, graphics are starting to catch up, and its netcode is very strong. However, It's dynamic surface is not suitable for dirt, and never will be. Ever since the European studio took over they have made a lot of good changes but have shown absolutely no interest in correctly implimenting dirt specific features. When ISI who is based in Michigan, US (dirt country) was developing it, they had planned on it, but now that 396 took over, they are clearly focused on asphault road racing. Even if they did dynamic dirt there are still oval dirt specific features that they would not do.

iRacing is the "creme of the crop" for dirt racing right now and while it is pretty good, there are a lot of room for improvement. I talk to many people that are in strong favor of some competition in the area.