PiBoSo Official Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: PiBoSo on November 05, 2018, 09:19:39 pm

Title: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 05, 2018, 09:19:39 pm
As you may or may not know, lately a new racing simulator has been released ( as Early Access on Steam ): KartKraft.
I was expecting YouTube videos comparing it with KRP, that is its only proper competitor ( everything else is just scaled down cars ).

Five days after release, still nothing.
There are comparisons with Automobilista and rF2, though  :-\

This problem is part of a trend, though.
Even when KRP was released, most simracing youtubers completely ignored it. A few asked for a free key. They were given out. Only one preview has been published. That was it.

Maybe some of you know the simracing world better than I do and could enlighten me.
What could be the cause of being completely ignored? After all, KRP is the best kart sim on the market, and karting is a big part of real racing. It also has some neat features that few big budget sims can match.
Is it because the graphics is not good enough?
Is it because it's too expensive? Then why not ask for a key? And there is a free demo anyway.
Or do I have a bad reputation and I'm ostracized?  :(
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: matty0l215 on November 05, 2018, 09:35:47 pm
Not enough Online Presence I would say.

Look at the amount of online presence Kart Kraft has had Way Way before Release. Look at how much stuff BSE is putting online about their new game (even if it is just teaser pictures and the odd video)

Make some noise and people will listen. It's all about the Hype nowadays. You've got to approach reviews and ask them to review your product, not the other way around.

Just my 2 cents anyway.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: KG_03 on November 05, 2018, 09:54:21 pm
The world is fuckin weird... I play Dakar 18 a lot at this moment. The game is amazing...of course it has fucked up physics, but the terrain and navigation is amazing. People prefer to jerk off to beautiful graphics and large amount of cars instead to look at more realistic physics.

I think the problem is that if there is no big developer behind a game it is mainly ignored.

There are some YT channels like Team VVV that will give best notes to every game they review... and there is a SimUK channel that is very good with the reviews.
All I can say that social medias like FB, Instagram and YT are a community mover... so as Matty said I think that you need more activity in social medias... otherwise people will not know there is a game like this.
GP Bikes is a good example. If not some people and not SimUK review I wouldn't know this game is good...I look at graphics...its outdated...I look at demo ...its bugged and very very hard... so no interest...than I see a video on YT with Yamaha MotoGP bike and Mugello track...and am surprised that its different world comparing to what I have seen in demo.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Manu on November 05, 2018, 10:09:26 pm
Quote from: matty0l215 on November 05, 2018, 09:35:47 pm
Not enough Online Presence I would say.

Look at the amount of online presence Kart Kraft has had Way Way before Release. Look at how much stuff BSE is putting online about their new game (even if it is just teaser pictures and the odd video)

Make some noise and people will listen. It's all about the Hype nowadays. You've got to approach reviews and ask them to review your product, not the other way around.

Just my 2 cents anyway.


+1
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: h106frp on November 05, 2018, 10:49:31 pm
+1 for social media presence, most youngsters only gateway to the world is facebook  ::)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 05, 2018, 10:52:03 pm
True: Kart Racing Pro is not advertised at all and has no media presence.
However, it has been on the market for almost 8 years now.
Everyone in the simracing community knows of its existence.
Why not make a video of it? It wouldn't take much effort and maybe it would be more interesting than the 100th car video.

Also maybe the youtubers who where not approached to receive a free key are angry with me because they feel entitled.
But what about those who instead decided to contact me, and got the free key? Why didn't they make anything of it?  :'(


Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: KG_03 on November 05, 2018, 10:54:20 pm
I think that 90% of youtubers just want to use their name to have a game for free...
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Phathry25 on November 05, 2018, 11:18:27 pm
What has changed since that would need review?  What other 8 year old game is still being reviewed? As far as being included in comparisons my first guess is that not enough people have it to compare it, although I'm sure you have more info to know weather or not that is the case. I doubt many of these people even know it exists.  I mean nobody is including the karting mods from rFactor 1 are they? Perhaps you point us in the direction of said youtubers that you feel slighted by and we can launch a campaign to make them include KRP in their comparisons.  I agree it's still the best karting sim out there in terms of physics, unfortunately that alone isn't enough.  Something more needs to be offered, some sort of marketing budget, even if it's only your time spent spamming social media feeds and discord channels.

I hope you are able to gain some traction at some point, in my eyes your games are underrated and underappreciated.  I obviously love them...
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: matty0l215 on November 05, 2018, 11:37:34 pm
Quote from: KG_03 on November 05, 2018, 10:54:20 pm
I think that 90% of youtubers just want to use their name to have a game for free...


This is very true.

Most of the "reviewers" are just lazy. It is difficult to judge without knowing what they are like. (You don't know how much stuff they have blagged for free and never given anythiny back)

@ Piboso- Unfortunately you are in a bit of an odd position with KRP. You don't appear to have a "big update" to push out and shout about soon but if you do, it may just come across as a bit desperate because of the Kart Kraft publicity currently going. And you can't exactly re-launch the game because nothing has changed yet. So although it is hard it may be worth keeping a lower profile for a bit until you have something new to push (maybe a graphics update??)

Or Maybe it is worth trying a bigger "media" push with MXB or even better with the new demo bike for GPB to drum up a bit of interest for those who tried the game ages ago on the demo.  These both are still "in beta" so are in the right place to shout about

With a few glamour shots/videos and some more activity your end (the comunity like hearing from you) and if you really want to push the boat out maybe a new official track, it may get people to give it a the demo second go.   If you do want it to go really well, Get people to test the new bike before releaseing it so that it is appealing to new riders while still maintaining the values of the game (simulation over arcade racing) then from there maybe contact a few SIM racing reviews and see if they would be interested in reviewing.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Napalm Nick on November 06, 2018, 12:58:57 am
It has to be marketing.

77 Steam reviews? in 18 months?

We all stumble our way here from a Simgramige (OED: frustrating pilgrimage to find a decent Sim) rather than being directed.

The problem with marketing is the huge cash outlay. But giving out keys for reviews is smart marketing and I think you should ask them where they are!

Faceplant, Twatter, Instantfan and a decent website are a no brainer. Even an old git like me had to join and produce that sh#t to promote my business.

Reading both games reviews - graphics - the kidz wants glitz. And to be fair to them so do we. How many people need to say its 1990 all over again.

Chase up those freebie key reviewers though. They do owe you!
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: poumpouny on November 06, 2018, 07:59:05 am
First off all, you need to explain people why it can't be compared to the Rfactor 2 kart, cause as far as i know the Rfactor 2 Kart Stuff  has the Rfactor 2 tyre model, Chassis Deformation, Real road etc ... (all Rfactor 2 physic stuff).
Second i think the only way to promote game is or "Have good physics and good/average amount and quality of content " the Rfactor 2 way, either have good physics and good graphics. With KRP you have amazing physics (the best on the market) but none of the two. Of course Hardcore simracer, who already know KRP will stick on it but getting new people is hard with what you have .....

i think with one good Rfactor 2 VS KRP review video, it will gain at least most of the Rfactor 2 audiences, wich is already a big audience ......
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: lluisete on November 06, 2018, 09:19:27 am
I worked some time ago as community manager (too much effort for the money) and know a bit how this world of marketing ... Here the main reasons for me:

1) Website looks awful and U DONT HAVE SOCIAL MEDIA (mainly Instagram and Facebook). Yo have to create events that don't cost to you money, for example make raffles of Keys and if someone wants to participate on it have to Like and Share the post of the Fb or Instagram with a attractive content on it (good image or good video).

2) U dont have any SEO (neither SEM) becuase ur web is obsolete and is not optimized for that, so its hard to find ur game if u look for game simulators and relationated therms. U should make a new web for every game and optimize it in terms of SEO. U have the same web of 2008  ??? I work now creating dropshipping ecommerces and can make sure that with good seo u can get a lot of visits.

2) The game is not trending, has been releashed a lot of years ago and IT'S DEAD. So, why lose time comparing a game dead? The Youtubers make videos searching what games are trending at the moment or wich ones have "big searches stadistics" or people playing it because they will get more visualizations. They compare it with Automobilista (for example) because that game is more famous and there is people that searching content about Automobilista will find the comparation, so they get more visits. Nobody search about KRP so if they compare it with KRP wont get that visualizations and is less profitable in terms of reward.

3) The reputation of the developer. 90% of people that joins this community gets bored and left it because of the lack of updates. U get some new players but there is players who left the game too so game never grow. I continue talking with people who helped A LOT THIS GAME years ago and they all left because got bored waiting updates or had big discrepancies with you. I created a Twitter in 2012 who got more than 300 followers in less one year and left this game because had discrepances with you, that twitter could continue growing and making new players. U have a good guy like Jorge Sprinter making very good content about ur game and GIVING YOU a lot of clients (If u visit servers at nights the 80% of people is spanish and half of them discovered the game thanks to Jorge) and he have to BUY THE KEYS to make raffles meanwhile other games BIGGER give keys to him for free, In 1 year when he get bored about that U will ask ¿Why nobody make content of my game?

4) U have to search the people, u cant be waiting on your deskopt waiting for people ask to make content of your game. In this world u have to be constantly talking with people who 2 parts will get a mutual benefit. For example, make a refferal campaing so influencers of sim gets a "discount code" of 10% and they get 5% of the sale (this will make u get sales with -15% of profit but will  make the game grow and people making good content to make the people buy it = more trending = more visits = game will we bigger and INTERESTING for other influencers). A good game is nothing without good marketing, U can see constantly how shit games are creating tons of sales just for the marketing involved.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 06, 2018, 10:28:19 am
Whoa, whoa! Too much information!
I know about the website, the lack of social media and all the other problems.

The question was much narrower: why aren't the popular simracing youtubers making videos of KRP when something important happens, like the release of KRP on Steam or the release of a competitor, just for a quick comparison? I get why there is no constant stream of new videos every day. I'd just like one once a year.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 06, 2018, 10:29:38 am
Quote from: lluisete on November 06, 2018, 09:19:27 am
3) The reputation of the developer. 90% of people that joins this community gets bored and left it because of the lack of updates. U get some new players but there is players who left the game too so game never grow. I continue talking with people who helped A LOT THIS GAME years ago and they all left because got bored waiting updates or had big discrepancies with you. I created a Twitter in 2012 who got more than 300 followers in less one year and left this game because had discrepances with you, that twitter could continue growing and making new players. U have a good guy like Jorge Sprinter making very good content about ur game and GIVING YOU a lot of clients (If u visit servers at nights the 80% of people is spanish and half of them discovered the game thanks to Jorge) and he have to BUY THE KEYS to make raffles meanwhile other games BIGGER give keys to him for free, In 1 year when he get bored about that U will ask ¿Why nobody make content of my game?


Discrepancies?  :-\
Sorry to hear that. What happened exactly?
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Napalm Nick on November 06, 2018, 10:51:40 am
I would suggest making a list of reviewers and speak to them to build a relationship.
I don't think there is any particular reason there are no reviews other than you aren't pushing the product.
Of all things I hate, networking is top of the list. Electronic chat makes it less painful but you have to blow your own trumpet or no one else will.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: lluisete on November 06, 2018, 12:48:08 pm
If u check a bit the content of this guy u have two main content:

1) Videos abount mainstream games like AssettoCorsa Competizione, Project Cars, F1 2018 ... So, this guy is looking for creating content that is mainstream in that moment to get tons of visits = money.

2) Reviews of products: If u check the links that this guy put in the descriptions all of them are refferals, that means that Fanatec and the other brand products are paying this guy for this review. More people visiting the web via the refferal link = more money = he create good content talking albout it.

3) All content of this guy have the objective of enterntain because If people see all video Youtube algoritm improves ur rating as youtuber, so he have to make entertaining content racing online, testing multiple tracks, showing something interesting, etc... KRP have not so much content and the most important, he will play alone, so It's kinda hard create entertaining content that makes people stay watching all video. (This point is the less important).

He just ignore the petition of the KRP because is not mainstream game and u are not paying him to do it, it's verysimple. It's not a conspiracy, it's just how world works.


Quote from: PiBoSo on November 06, 2018, 10:29:38 am
Quote from: lluisete on November 06, 2018, 09:19:27 am
3) The reputation of the developer. 90% of people that joins this community gets bored and left it because of the lack of updates. U get some new players but there is players who left the game too so game never grow. I continue talking with people who helped A LOT THIS GAME years ago and they all left because got bored waiting updates or had big discrepancies with you. I created a Twitter in 2012 who got more than 300 followers in less one year and left this game because had discrepances with you, that twitter could continue growing and making new players. U have a good guy like Jorge Sprinter making very good content about ur game and GIVING YOU a lot of clients (If u visit servers at nights the 80% of people is spanish and half of them discovered the game thanks to Jorge) and he have to BUY THE KEYS to make raffles meanwhile other games BIGGER give keys to him for free, In 1 year when he get bored about that U will ask ¿Why nobody make content of my game?


Discrepancies?  :-\
Sorry to hear that. What happened exactly?


It was in 2012 and i was a kid  ;D

Some guy did a mod of Aleix Espargaro motorbike and he asked me for a key to test the game and u didnt give me it because the game was still too bad and buggy. So i got mad and felt i was losing my time trying to make the game grow so i left it.

I think the game is much better in terms of bugs now, u only need to improve the netcode bugs and it's close to the perfection to be honest.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 06, 2018, 04:11:10 pm
Quote from: lluisete on November 06, 2018, 12:48:08 pm
If u check a bit the content of this guy u have two main content:

1) Videos abount mainstream games like AssettoCorsa Competizione, Project Cars, F1 2018 ... So, this guy is looking for creating content that is mainstream in that moment to get tons of visits = money.

2) Reviews of products: If u check the links that this guy put in the descriptions all of them are refferals, that means that Fanatec and the other brand products are paying this guy for this review. More people visiting the web via the refferal link = more money = he create good content talking albout it.

3) All content of this guy have the objective of enterntain because If people see all video Youtube algoritm improves ur rating as youtuber, so he have to make entertaining content racing online, testing multiple tracks, showing something interesting, etc... KRP have not so much content and the most important, he will play alone, so It's kinda hard create entertaining content that makes people stay watching all video. (This point is the less important).

He just ignore the petition of the KRP because is not mainstream game and u are not paying him to do it, it's verysimple. It's not a conspiracy, it's just how world works.


Ok, thank you.
All makes sense.

I was never worried about a conspiracy, but that I somehow built a negative reputation. Looks like it's even worse. I am irrelevant  :'(
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on November 06, 2018, 05:30:44 pm
@Piboso: Just to point out - The guy in the video didn't "flat out refuse" to play Kart Racing Pro, he said, "I've not tried Kart Racing Pro", two totally different meanings altogether mate..... Sounds like he's just never even thought of playing Kart Racing Pro..... Why? Probably cause even if he's heard of it before it's simply slipped his mind with it not being promoted well? It's probably as simple as that Pib.

Sounds to me like your best path to take for some good promo work that wouldn't cost you a dime would be to start holding "Official" live-stream events/championships yourself.... This would be fantastic PR activity as well as strongly allowing you to focus on determining any blindingly obvious issues/bugs to help focus product development and updates needed(Great genuine feedback opportunity).... Do this one day per week and regard it as an investment of your time for product promotion, PR and testing - Very important for sales these days. ;)

Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 06, 2018, 05:52:01 pm
Quote from: Hawk on November 06, 2018, 05:30:44 pm
Sounds to me like your best path to take for some good promo work that wouldn't cost you a dime would be to start holding "Official" live-stream events/championships yourself.... This would be fantastic PR activity as well as strongly allowing you to focus on determining any blindingly obvious issues/bugs to help focus product development and updates needed(Great genuine feedback opportunity).... Do this one day per week and regard it as an investment of your time for product promotion, PR and testing - Very important for sales these days. ;)


Yeah, I was thinking the same.
However, it make it truly interesting, there must be some money involved, probably in the form of physical prizes...
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 06, 2018, 08:05:27 pm
Quote from: Hawk on November 06, 2018, 05:30:44 pm
@Piboso: Just to point out - The guy in the video didn't "flat out refuse" to play Kart Racing Pro, he said, "I've not tried Kart Racing Pro", two totally different meanings altogether mate.....


Whoops  :-[
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on November 07, 2018, 09:38:35 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 06, 2018, 05:52:01 pm
Quote from: Hawk on November 06, 2018, 05:30:44 pm
Sounds to me like your best path to take for some good promo work that wouldn't cost you a dime would be to start holding "Official" live-stream events/championships yourself.... This would be fantastic PR activity as well as strongly allowing you to focus on determining any blindingly obvious issues/bugs to help focus product development and updates needed(Great genuine feedback opportunity).... Do this one day per week and regard it as an investment of your time for product promotion, PR and testing - Very important for sales these days. ;)


Yeah, I was thinking the same.
However, it make it truly interesting, there must be some money involved, probably in the form of physical prizes...


Well not necessarily Piboso...... I mean yes, money or physical prizes would be an added attraction and a good bonus for participating in the "Official" live events, but personally speaking I would just concentrate on getting the event/s off the ground first, get them going and established with the right format, you know, then take any further additions and ideas you may have to include in the events from there...... Maybe even try and get a sponsor to stump-up a physical prize or two for championship winners?

But yeah mate, great idea Pib!  ;) 8) 
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Corrie on November 07, 2018, 02:10:38 pm
I've been around KRP since 2012 and have seen a lot of what has gone on. I'm not meaning to stir anything up, but I do have some thoughts.

We used to have a huge and thriving racing community that livestreamed, raced in massive events, and had some of the best racers competing. This league, which I'm sure that PiBoSo doesn't like, was called the Sim Karting World Championship. It checked every box that PiBoSo has been looking for, in terms of broad reach (we had 14 different countries racing on track together), competition, and promotion. We had people who would live-stream our events and we even made full commentated race videos. Our biggest race had 27 people racing on track together. This was probably the biggest series in KRP's time and it lasted from 2013 to 2016, which is incredible in my opinion. What killed the league was the inability for modders to change crucial pieces of the game which hindered our ability to run a league. Stuff like custom physics, which was decrypted in late 2016 if I'm not mistaken, killed the league's participation. Additionally, because KRP would only display 12 karts on track, we had to limit our Pre-Final and Finals to 12 karts, meaning over half the field didn't make the main event. We constantly asked for the ability to see more than 12 karts, and that ability was added in 2017, which is exactly why SKWC eventually stopped running.

I'm not trying to say that SKWC was the greatest thing that happened to KRP, but what I am saying is that we presented a unique opportunity to PiBoSo, to which there was no development or response for years. We had a huge amount of skill in our driver pool, many modders helping develop content, and a huge amount of feedback on bugs and game mechanics. The big take-away here is that, in my opinion, PiBoSo ignored the biggest part of the community for nearly 3 years. In that time, the racing community thrived and then died on the back of a time when the developer wouldn't help make the game more playable in the scope that we had hoped for.

In no way am I saying that PiBoSo is solely responsible - there were plenty of kids in SKWC who made arguments and unpleasantness on the forums, but I do think that KRP definitely had the potential to grow if things had been quickly implemented after they were suggested. I know development time is expensive, but KRP still has the makings of a great sim. Right now, the netcode is its biggest downfall. Once we can run 15+ karts on track without crazy rubber-banding, I'm sure a league will pop up that will get people interested again.

I'm not trying to point fingers, just relaying what I've thought while reading this thread.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Stout Johnson on November 07, 2018, 03:01:26 pm
I agree to some extent with Corrie. KRP per se is a treasure. It is loads of fun. I used to race with some GPB guys (who mostly are noobs on 4 wheels) and still it was a hell lot of fun. Technically, it IS a great sim and objectively THE sim for karting. I do not want to get scientific here, because I bet nobody can definitely say why KRP is not lifting off as expected. I think it is a good mix of very conservative marketing, long development history, netcode issues, partially less-than-optimal atmosphere in the KRP Forum (at least it used to be for some time).

So I think what it lacks, is the great interest to begin with and the lack of active community and regular online races in the process which would help make it grow. If somehow that spark which could (re-)ignite the fire among many simmers, it could still be a great title. Just make sure there are no turn offs like instability issues with this sim. Because this will just make people quit. If there are no people online, there are no races. No races - no fun - no racing streams - no YouTube Videos - no market penetration. Simple as that imo. Don't look for anything magical or even a 'conspiracy'.

People will do start things which SEEM to be fun (Marketing, Reviews, YouTube), but will only continue Things which ARE fun (netcode, stability, people playing online). Get those last things done, and you are good.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 07, 2018, 04:51:11 pm

Bottom line is, the youtubers don't seem to be interested in informing their viewers.
They are not trend-setters. It looks quite the opposite actually.
They make videos about what is already popular to harvest views and that's it.

KRP is not popular, hence no videos.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Stout Johnson on November 07, 2018, 05:13:30 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 07, 2018, 04:51:11 pm

Bottom line is, the youtubers don't seem to be interested in informing their viewers.
They are not trend-setters. It looks quite the opposite actually.
They make videos about what is already popular to harvest views and that's it.

KRP is not popular, hence no videos.

It is true, for youtubers a video is their product and they try to get as many views as possible. But if KRP would be trending on its own among sim-lovers, it would get it's share of love among sim youtubers. From what it looks like, the conclusion is that you cannot rely on youtubers spreading news of your product KRP. Ok, it would make it easier. But don't give up and don't take this as the sole explanation. Keep working mate. Focus on your priorities in terms of finishing your products. In the end, if the sim deserves it, it will get its spotlight sooner or later. Cream always rises to the top ;) But again: make sure your products are 100% stable for online play. It is the most important thing atm imo.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: janaucarre on November 07, 2018, 05:21:45 pm
Hy as said before, and aince long years, the first problem is online bugs. I remember years ago trying to make races with 5 or 8 People, restart the race, qualif, so many times fo having all people on the grid until the start, so many hours to try to load some who has the worst connection line before other, ao many hours decrease the paint size for less ping, and so and so.
And so,  most people i ride with years ago were gone elsewhere.
I know piboso you read this forum since the start and see netcode problem, please solve it, and more, but it seems it is really the first, the number one problem as said here post before that the communication doesnt grow around your sims.
Thank you for all of your time and for the best bike kart sim ever. We are not massiv community that can play with problem since so long years.

Thanks
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Manu on November 07, 2018, 06:10:47 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 07, 2018, 04:51:11 pm

Bottom line is, the youtubers don't seem to be interested in informing their viewers.
They are not trend-setters. It looks quite the opposite actually.
They make videos about what is already popular to harvest views and that's it.

KRP is not popular, hence no videos.


And your other three products? MXB GPB WRS

I sincerely believe that if you dedicate only to two of them you would have more relevance.


Just think of all the motorcycle games that have appeared in recent years with a lot of speculation and interest.

A simulator can stand out a lot between them. As I see it, motorcycle simulators can have better opportunities. It is still on time.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: philiaN on November 08, 2018, 02:38:02 am
The key for success is marketing.

There is a reason why big companys put billion of dollars into it, but let me tell you that you can actually reach more people for free.. and without putting in alot of work hours.

Work together with your community! I'm pretty sure there will be willing people to help you with the following steps to promote the brand PiBoSo. And this is actually the first thing, don't split your simulations on your main website.

Let's face the fact, you are a genius developer, but definitely the opposite when it comes to marketing, design and content (news) ... and you dont have to be! You should def. think about to outsource those things you aren't good at or simply doenst have the time for.

Step 1: Let someone make you a new Piboso website with the structure of blizzard.com (e.g.) (wordpress - i could even spend you my betheme licence)
- Under the navigation point "eSports" - "You" should organize official championships for each simulation with the results of each race and the overall standings. (no need for any prizes)
- Add "Development Log" to the main navigation
- get moderators for news (esport, standings) and other content like videos/screenshots with required authorization of you to post each article
- make some pleasing dark tones for the forums and use the same theme for every forum

Step 2: Let someone make you new logos for each simulation, they are more than outdated specially mxb and gpb.
For example i asked my brother what he thinks how old mx bikes is based on the logo - his answer: around 2000.
Game Menu is ok - it's simple and minimal - i just would advise you to use a different font and also some dark tones for the sub menu backgrounds (dark grey) - as reference you can use discord colors

Step 3: Get a facebook page for PiBoSo and promote all your simulations on that. Same here get some mods for it who are willing to post some media (with authorization of the post)
- You dont need twitter, instagram or snapchat.. e.g lcq has already 3k followers on fb - you have 80 on twitter (i made a twitter account only for mxb)

Step4: Get mods for your youtube channel
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: lluisete on November 08, 2018, 10:58:21 am
The best form to get people is to use influencers marketing. They are the best on what they do and they get money in base of the repercusion, so u will always win more money that the paid to them.

U can't start making championships when u have no people playing ur game, first get people then make the people CONTINUE IN UR GAME so people that comes after will stay and then UR GAME WILL GROW. I think that having big studios making car games u should focus in GPB because u have no real competence in motorbike simulators.

In the case of GPB I think the game is enought good to keep people playing, just need to get more vision. It's too hard to find this game because its 0 investment in SEO/SEM Google and in Youtube, If you uses good influencers they will find the best form to show the game to people who can be interested (they know how to make attractive content, know how to use keywords to get more people, etc).

In Spain there is only one youtuber who is doing content about GPB (Jorge) and he have 23k subscribers and he did that a lot of people knows about the game and some of them bought it. U can just connect discord at nights and see how Spanish channel always have 6-10 persons, imagine the case of bigger influencers and from different countrys.

And one important thing, changue the 125cc from the demo. It's a boring bike, put some easy to ride and more funny bike because a lot of people who test the game crash some times in boxes and then unistall the game. Just see videos from people who test the game, they all are always crashing on boxes and starts to flame. Put a more fun bike so people get a better initial impresion = more % of buy the game.

U did the hardest part, making the best simulator. Only thing that u have to do is contact with people who are better than you getting repercusion and let them do their work.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Furious on November 08, 2018, 08:04:19 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 07, 2018, 04:51:11 pm

Bottom line is, the youtubers don't seem to be interested in informing their viewers.
They are not trend-setters. It looks quite the opposite actually.
They make videos about what is already popular to harvest views and that's it.

KRP is not popular, hence no videos.


I would agree. KRP is so opposite of being hot that no one even considered to mention it in KartKraft videos. I have to add that I was also hoping for KRP to pop out along with kart racing theme.

But to think what can be done in that department I can suggest this:

1. You have to go out to entities that already acknowledge KRP and ask them to review/check it out. Correct me if I'm wrong but Race Department has been putting out news about KRP's updates since years. They would do comparison.

2. Go out to entities that could objectively rate KRP's values despite those aspects making it unpopular. One youtuber I would recommend is EmptyBox.

Overall, I guess being absent from market ( in marketing and promoting part of it ) causes KRP ( and probably others ) being considered dead.

Still, hope this helps at all.

much love
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: connorhall70 on November 08, 2018, 09:59:30 pm
people would bsah the old clunky ui, bash the graphics etc. plus you never advertised any of your games very well. in fact i dont think you ever did. what do u expecT?
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Asdrael on November 09, 2018, 03:22:56 pm
Youtubers - at least 99% of them - are not interested in providing new things, they are interested in getting views. So unless you quite litteraly pay them, they won't cover your game if you have no hype around it.

You have zero active online presence when it comes to marketing. I don't even get an email when a new MXB beta is out, and that's the BARE minimum nowadays. That, and I'd say one twitter post a day + a trailer video for each beta (which, to be honest, you more or less started doing). I know proper advertisement is not realistic within budget, but then you need to rely on creating hype to attract new players.

Those days, a beta is considered a release. Your games have been in beta for years if not for a decade, so there is no new hype around those.

If KRP is like MXB and GPB, the online racing is still very lack luster, so the community barely gels together and can't spread with awesome racing videos.

Again, if it's like MXB and GPB, it is so difficult to get into modding that content simply doesn't come at a decent pace and quality outside of a select few modders.

So in short - your active following is to small to attract youtubers, and the common perception of players is that there is never anything new attract them.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 09, 2018, 11:34:49 pm

Thank you everyone for the information.
Very insightful.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Cory_Hayes.11 on November 11, 2018, 11:37:39 am
well there you go, someone ended up doing a comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPzkQwTGKow&t=3s
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on November 11, 2018, 12:46:48 pm
Quote from: Cory_Hayes.11 on November 11, 2018, 11:37:39 am
well there you go, someone ended up doing a comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPzkQwTGKow&t=3s


Not of much use unless you understand his language..... Very limited audience reach.... A very poor decision from the YouTuber concerned, in my opinion.  :P

YouTube definitely needs a translation utility on it's service..... far too many videos in foreign(non-English) language appearing on YouTube these days, which is fine for those who understand a particular foreign language, but video posters need to fully understand that if they want the biggest audiences then they need to speak and post using the international language to reach large audiences.

If YouTube don't do this then they at least need a search filter for filtering out non-English language videos, then we might get all foreign posters starting to use the international language.

This is not an attack on non-English speaking people, I'm just stating the way it is in the world..... The international language to communicate to the biggest majority of people on this planet is, like it or not, the English language.... people should understand that and use it on global communication media sites like YouTube.  :)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 11, 2018, 12:51:36 pm
Quote from: Cory_Hayes.11 on November 11, 2018, 11:37:39 am
well there you go, someone ended up doing a comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPzkQwTGKow&t=3s


Yay!
Smaller youtubers to the rescue!  :)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: JamoZ on November 11, 2018, 05:35:32 pm
Back then you didn`t want to hear anything about it ...but this is a issue many people here confronted you with multiple times over the past what, 7/8/9 years? And now you`re wondering what`s going on? Hilarious.

I hope you take all the insights and advices in this thread seriously this time around, as it might be your last chance to do something about it looking at the competition...
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Tom HWK on November 12, 2018, 10:52:41 am
2 things i think all the game would benefit from would be a better internet presence and an new UI, the outdated grey 4:3 layout is definitely a turn off.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 12, 2018, 11:22:39 am
Quote from: Tom HWK on November 12, 2018, 10:52:41 am
2 things i think all the game would benefit from would be a better internet presence and an new UI, the outdated grey 4:3 layout is definitely a turn off.


Could you please link a reference UI you like?
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Tom HWK on November 12, 2018, 01:18:46 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 12, 2018, 11:22:39 am
Quote from: Tom HWK on November 12, 2018, 10:52:41 am
2 things i think all the game would benefit from would be a better internet presence and an new UI, the outdated grey 4:3 layout is definitely a turn off.


Could you please link a reference UI you like?


I think it needs to look clean and simple. I really like the Fifa menus, ACC and PC2 have a clean look too, the simple box layout like Windows 10.
F1 2018 has a clean look in a different style, scrolling across the bottom with pictures above.
And even though i really don't enjoy MotoGP 18 much, the way they animated the bike on the menu is very nice.

Pictures for reference.
(https://i.imgur.com/NKDHInP.jpg)

And in terms of social media and internet presence in general i'd look at how the guy making Wrench is putting his work out http://www.wrenchgame.com/ he has his blog, 6k followers on Instagram, 15k on Facebook, 1.7k on Youtube and as far as i'm aware its 1 guy making the game.

You have a new bike you are working on for GP-Bikes, make some noise about it.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 12, 2018, 03:08:25 pm
Quote from: Tom HWK on November 12, 2018, 01:18:46 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 12, 2018, 11:22:39 am
Quote from: Tom HWK on November 12, 2018, 10:52:41 am
2 things i think all the game would benefit from would be a better internet presence and an new UI, the outdated grey 4:3 layout is definitely a turn off.


Could you please link a reference UI you like?


I think it needs to look clean and simple. I really like the Fifa menus, ACC and PC2 have a clean look too, the simple box layout like Windows 10.
F1 2018 has a clean look in a different style, scrolling across the bottom with pictures above.
And even though i really don't enjoy MotoGP 18 much, the way they animated the bike on the menu is very nice.


I don't like the Windows Metro interface at all.
The F1 UI is a huge waste of space.

The MotoGP interface is actually quite nice, not too dissimilar from the GP Bikes one.

Probably making the GP Bikes default interface 4:3 instead of 16:9 wasn't a forward-looking idea  :-[
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on November 12, 2018, 03:18:38 pm
@Piboso.... If you'd personally struggle to achieve the professional quality you wanted, then why not do a community competition to design the UI's for your projects.... There are some very talents graphics artists here.... some being their day jobs..... You'd just need to give them the basic guide-lines as to what you'd require: Formats, image sizes, etc.

Give it a try.... Nothing to lose, and you may just come up with a gem of a design that you could implement

Just a thought.  ;)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on November 12, 2018, 08:26:15 pm
Probably a good idea to change the UI selector sound too? Personally I find it very irritating.... CLUNK, CLUNK.  :P ;D
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: C21 on November 13, 2018, 06:12:30 am
QuoteQuote from: Cory_Hayes.11 on November 11, 2018, 11:37:39 AM

    well there you go, someone ended up doing a comparison

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPzkQwTGKow&t=3s


Not of much use unless you understand his language..... Very limited audience reach.... A very poor decision from the YouTuber concerned, in my opinion.  :P

YouTube definitely needs a translation utility on it's service..... far too many videos in foreign(non-English) language appearing on YouTube these days, which is fine for those who understand a particular foreign language, but video posters need to fully understand that if they want the biggest audiences then they need to speak and post using the international language to reach large audiences.

If YouTube don't do this then they at least need a search filter for filtering out non-English language videos, then we might get all foreign posters starting to use the international language.

This is not an attack on non-English speaking people, I'm just stating the way it is in the world..... The international language to communicate to the biggest majority of people on this planet is, like it or not, the English language.... people should understand that and use it on global communication media sites like YouTube.


As i personally don´t like german reviews as well because they are limited for german speaking people the review is not that bad, in fact very good. The reviewer drove kart at the age 13-16 , he has a bit of experience in kart sport.
Short summary:
KRP wins against KK and he said that the handling and phsyics are still benchmark for kart racing games - "it could be real". He likes the chassis flex and the surface grain / tire marks on the track which is not present in KK.
KK is better in terms of graphic but not as good in terms of physics.
KRP is the best sim but it still lacks of users playing it.
KK still lacks the multiplayer option and the kart shows some strange reactions but the feeling is not that good as in KRP.

@Hawk
Still nowadays not everyone is able to speak english or do a recent review of a game in fluent english if it´s not his native language ;)
Youtube alread has a translation utility which works really well but not everyone uses it.
EA uses a discord server where you can ask the develper questions if you encounter problems playing the game.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Stout Johnson on November 13, 2018, 07:58:26 am
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 09, 2018, 11:34:49 pm
Thank you everyone for the information.
Very insightful.

Thank you for being open to suggestions. Good (but rare) approach these days.

Quote from: PiBoSo on November 12, 2018, 03:08:25 pm
I don't like the Windows Metro interface at all.
The F1 UI is a huge waste of space.

I know it is your product and it might be hard to accept. But when it comes to things like UI and looks your opinion on what is neat and pretty might not be representative. And what good is a product which the developer things looks nice but the majority of its users and potential users might not?

Trying to fathom in which direction to go when changing UI would be a classic topic for a poll. Then take it as a general direction to go and alter the community-proposed UI according to your product. So if certain details in the proposed UI are not applicable for you, then change it in that respect where it makes sense for you. But you should be open in the general layout according to what your customers want. That's just common sense to me. The UI very much affect the overall feeling and the acceptability of your products, especially for new potential customers who test the demo. The first impression matters as to what attitude a user has to your titles.

I know that your titles are sims and the looks are not the most important selling points. But we all are affected by the overall feeling too, not just the hard facts.

Quote from: Hawk on November 12, 2018, 08:26:15 pm
Probably a good idea to change the UI selector sound too? Personally I find it very irritating.... CLUNK, CLUNK.  :P ;D

I agree. The sound is like from a game from the 90's. Make it a more subtle and pleasant sound. I used to have a TV where the menu selection sound was a unpleasant und loud sound. I just started to hate it. The new TV makes a much more pleasant selection sound and I am much more relaxed. Such small details actually do matter.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Alby46 on November 13, 2018, 08:46:02 am
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 13, 2018, 07:58:26 am
unpleasant und loud sound

*german intensifies*
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on November 13, 2018, 08:54:11 am
Thanks for the translation and explanation C21, really appreciate that mate.....  ;) 8)
I'm just surprised in this day and age of global internet and social network media communications that the Int-Language, especially in EU countries, isn't taught in schools as a vital second language to learn.
I can understand the older generations not having learned to speak the Int-Language but for the younger generations, if they really want to get on in life, it should be a vital part of their education, like it or not.  ;) 8)

@Stout: +1 Totally agree with what you said there mate.  ;)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: PiBoSo on November 13, 2018, 11:45:14 am
Quote from: Hawk on November 13, 2018, 08:54:11 am
Thanks for the translation and explanation C21, really appreciate that mate.....  ;) 8)
I'm just surprised in this day and age of global internet and social network media communications that the Int-Language, especially in EU countries, isn't taught in schools as a vital second language to learn.
I can understand the older generations not having learned to speak the Int-Language but for the younger generations, if they really want to get on in life, it should be a vital part of their education, like it or not.  ;) 8)


There is a big difference between knowing a language and being fluent in it, though.

Also, in general, it is often better to find and do good in a niche than compete against the global market.
For example, GP Bikes is an hardcore PC sim and not an arcade mobile game  :)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on November 13, 2018, 12:11:40 pm
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 13, 2018, 11:45:14 am
Quote from: Hawk on November 13, 2018, 08:54:11 am
Thanks for the translation and explanation C21, really appreciate that mate.....  ;) 8)
I'm just surprised in this day and age of global internet and social network media communications that the Int-Language, especially in EU countries, isn't taught in schools as a vital second language to learn.
I can understand the older generations not having learned to speak the Int-Language but for the younger generations, if they really want to get on in life, it should be a vital part of their education, like it or not.  ;) 8)


There is a big difference between knowing a language and being fluent in it, though.

Also, in general, it is often better to find and do good in a niche than compete against the global market.
Just like GP Bikes is an hardcore PC sim and not an arcade mobile game  :)


I would agree with you on both counts there Pib......
A niche market can be large enough for a small developer(even a one man developer) to earn good money. :)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: GP500 on December 06, 2018, 01:36:26 pm
KRP is $10 too expensive for what it offers on a playing and content perspective. It is more advanced and better than others (rF2 is messed up, AMS is compromise, KartSim in rF2 is good but very specific) and can be advertised as a professional training "tool" even, but it is light on what a player can do offline since multiplayer is so empty - that is also a problem with AMS and even rF2. Most YouTubers aren't that great at driving and much less at providing feedback to the level of a quality tester, or just spotting certain details that a seasoned racer should.

The only proper ones I could think of would say it drives fine but they won't be able to say "it's like this in real life," and they'll also say it may be too niche. The simracing crowd talks a big game but doesn't live up to their words.

Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on December 06, 2018, 02:32:10 pm
Quote from: GP500 on December 06, 2018, 01:36:26 pm
KRP is $10 too expensive for what it offers on a playing and content perspective. It is more advanced and better than others (rF2 is messed up, AMS is compromise, KartSim in rF2 is good but very specific) and can be advertised as a professional training "tool" even, but it is light on what a player can do offline since multiplayer is so empty - that is also a problem with AMS and even rF2. Most YouTubers aren't that great at driving and much less at providing feedback to the level of a quality tester, or just spotting certain details that a seasoned racer should.

The only proper ones I could think of would say it drives fine but they won't be able to say "it's like this in real life," and they'll also say it may be too niche. The simracing crowd talks a big game but doesn't live up to their words.


"rFactor 2 messed up"?  ??? :o :o

Where have you been holed up for the last 12 months. Lol..... Take another look; Studio 397 are and have been doing a fantastic job with rFactor 2 and it's community.  ;);D
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: tchemi on December 08, 2018, 06:08:48 pm
This :
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 12, 2018, 03:08:25 pm
I don't like the Windows Metro interface at all.
The F1 UI is a huge waste of space.
The MotoGP interface is actually quite nice, not too dissimilar from the GP Bikes one.

Probably making the GP Bikes default interface 4:3 instead of 16:9 wasn't a forward-looking idea  :-[


And that :
Quote from: Hawk on November 12, 2018, 03:18:38 pm
@Piboso.... If you'd personally struggle to achieve the professional quality you wanted, then why not do a community competition to design the UI's for your projects.... There are some very talents graphics artists here.... some being their day jobs..... You'd just need to give them the basic guide-lines as to what you'd require: Formats, image sizes, etc.


Piboso, You may or may not like these interfaces but trust me. They have been studied, thought, designed to be the easier to use, to be comfortable for users and to be trendy and beautiful.
UX design and UI desgin is not a hobby, It's a real job. And it's not a matter of taste.

To make it short... Hawk idea is very good ! If you don't have the time nor the money, this is smart. Also, if you do this, don't adopt the most good looking interface, let the users vote !
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on December 08, 2018, 08:26:51 pm
Quote from: tchemi on December 08, 2018, 06:08:48 pm
This :
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 12, 2018, 03:08:25 pm
I don't like the Windows Metro interface at all.
The F1 UI is a huge waste of space.
The MotoGP interface is actually quite nice, not too dissimilar from the GP Bikes one.

Probably making the GP Bikes default interface 4:3 instead of 16:9 wasn't a forward-looking idea  :-[


And that :
Quote from: Hawk on November 12, 2018, 03:18:38 pm
@Piboso.... If you'd personally struggle to achieve the professional quality you wanted, then why not do a community competition to design the UI's for your projects.... There are some very talents graphics artists here.... some being their day jobs..... You'd just need to give them the basic guide-lines as to what you'd require: Formats, image sizes, etc.


Piboso, You may or may not like these interfaces but trust me. They have been studied, thought, designed to be the easier to use, to be comfortable for users and to be trendy and beautiful.
UX design and UI desgin is not a hobby, It's a real job. And it's not a matter of taste.

To make it short... Hawk idea is very good ! If you don't have the time nor the money, this is smart. Also, if you do this, don't adopt the most good looking interface, let the users vote !


+1  on all points you made there tchemi.... Well said mate. ;)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: GP500 on December 12, 2018, 03:17:42 am
Quote from: Hawk on December 06, 2018, 02:32:10 pm
Quote from: GP500 on December 06, 2018, 01:36:26 pm
KRP is $10 too expensive for what it offers on a playing and content perspective. It is more advanced and better than others (rF2 is messed up, AMS is compromise, KartSim in rF2 is good but very specific) and can be advertised as a professional training "tool" even, but it is light on what a player can do offline since multiplayer is so empty - that is also a problem with AMS and even rF2. Most YouTubers aren't that great at driving and much less at providing feedback to the level of a quality tester, or just spotting certain details that a seasoned racer should.

The only proper ones I could think of would say it drives fine but they won't be able to say "it's like this in real life," and they'll also say it may be too niche. The simracing crowd talks a big game but doesn't live up to their words.


"rFactor 2 messed up"?  ??? :o :o

Where have you been holed up for the last 12 months. Lol..... Take another look; Studio 397 are and have been doing a fantastic job with rFactor 2 and it's community.  ;);D



Not with the community, no, but that is another topic (they've been driving away modding to not conflict/challenge their paid DLC). What is messed up in that sentence, as should have been clear from it talking about karts and the games listed in parenthesis, is the karts (from their original KartCup release) in the game.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on December 12, 2018, 09:11:41 am
Quote from: GP500 on December 12, 2018, 03:17:42 am
Quote from: Hawk on December 06, 2018, 02:32:10 pm
Quote from: GP500 on December 06, 2018, 01:36:26 pm
KRP is $10 too expensive for what it offers on a playing and content perspective. It is more advanced and better than others (rF2 is messed up, AMS is compromise, KartSim in rF2 is good but very specific) and can be advertised as a professional training "tool" even, but it is light on what a player can do offline since multiplayer is so empty - that is also a problem with AMS and even rF2. Most YouTubers aren't that great at driving and much less at providing feedback to the level of a quality tester, or just spotting certain details that a seasoned racer should.

The only proper ones I could think of would say it drives fine but they won't be able to say "it's like this in real life," and they'll also say it may be too niche. The simracing crowd talks a big game but doesn't live up to their words.


"rFactor 2 messed up"?  ??? :o :o

Where have you been holed up for the last 12 months. Lol..... Take another look; Studio 397 are and have been doing a fantastic job with rFactor 2 and it's community.  ;);D



Not with the community, no, but that is another topic (they've been driving away modding to not conflict/challenge their paid DLC). What is messed up in that sentence, as should have been clear from it talking about karts and the games listed in parenthesis, is the karts (from their original KartCup release) in the game.


You say Studio 397 have been driving away modding? In what way?
They have openly stated that anyone who's interested in modding for rFactor2 payware DLC can contact them on that subject and they are very open to anyone or any group of modders who are capable of doing a good enough job...... I personally agree with that policy; I want to see high quality accurate content in rFactor2, don't you? That can only be achieved by those that are capable of doing so. Anyone else can still upload their mods to the steam workshop for download. Studio 397 can't be any fairer than that surely? :)
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: GP500 on December 12, 2018, 10:39:57 am
Quote from: Hawk on December 12, 2018, 09:11:41 am
Quote from: GP500 on December 12, 2018, 03:17:42 am
Quote from: Hawk on December 06, 2018, 02:32:10 pm
Quote from: GP500 on December 06, 2018, 01:36:26 pm
KRP is $10 too expensive for what it offers on a playing and content perspective. It is more advanced and better than others (rF2 is messed up, AMS is compromise, KartSim in rF2 is good but very specific) and can be advertised as a professional training "tool" even, but it is light on what a player can do offline since multiplayer is so empty - that is also a problem with AMS and even rF2. Most YouTubers aren't that great at driving and much less at providing feedback to the level of a quality tester, or just spotting certain details that a seasoned racer should.

The only proper ones I could think of would say it drives fine but they won't be able to say "it's like this in real life," and they'll also say it may be too niche. The simracing crowd talks a big game but doesn't live up to their words.


"rFactor 2 messed up"?  ??? :o :o

Where have you been holed up for the last 12 months. Lol..... Take another look; Studio 397 are and have been doing a fantastic job with rFactor 2 and it's community.  ;);D



Not with the community, no, but that is another topic (they've been driving away modding to not conflict/challenge their paid DLC). What is messed up in that sentence, as should have been clear from it talking about karts and the games listed in parenthesis, is the karts (from their original KartCup release) in the game.


You say Studio 397 have been driving away modding? In what way?
They have openly stated that anyone who's interested in modding for rFactor2 payware DLC can contact them on that subject and they are very open to anyone or any group of modders who are capable of doing a good enough job...... I personally agree with that policy; I want to see high quality accurate content in rFactor2, don't you? That can only be achieved by those that are capable of doing so. Anyone else can still upload their mods to the steam workshop for download. Studio 397 can't be any fairer than that surely? :)


Only touching on one aspect of your post, they want a 50% share of the revenue (not profit, revenue) for the workshop.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on December 12, 2018, 12:46:49 pm
Quote from: GP500 on December 12, 2018, 10:39:57 am
Quote from: Hawk on December 12, 2018, 09:11:41 am
Quote from: GP500 on December 12, 2018, 03:17:42 am
Quote from: Hawk on December 06, 2018, 02:32:10 pm
Quote from: GP500 on December 06, 2018, 01:36:26 pm
KRP is $10 too expensive for what it offers on a playing and content perspective. It is more advanced and better than others (rF2 is messed up, AMS is compromise, KartSim in rF2 is good but very specific) and can be advertised as a professional training "tool" even, but it is light on what a player can do offline since multiplayer is so empty - that is also a problem with AMS and even rF2. Most YouTubers aren't that great at driving and much less at providing feedback to the level of a quality tester, or just spotting certain details that a seasoned racer should.

The only proper ones I could think of would say it drives fine but they won't be able to say "it's like this in real life," and they'll also say it may be too niche. The simracing crowd talks a big game but doesn't live up to their words.


"rFactor 2 messed up"?  ??? :o :o

Where have you been holed up for the last 12 months. Lol..... Take another look; Studio 397 are and have been doing a fantastic job with rFactor 2 and it's community.  ;);D



Not with the community, no, but that is another topic (they've been driving away modding to not conflict/challenge their paid DLC). What is messed up in that sentence, as should have been clear from it talking about karts and the games listed in parenthesis, is the karts (from their original KartCup release) in the game.


You say Studio 397 have been driving away modding? In what way?
They have openly stated that anyone who's interested in modding for rFactor2 payware DLC can contact them on that subject and they are very open to anyone or any group of modders who are capable of doing a good enough job...... I personally agree with that policy; I want to see high quality accurate content in rFactor2, don't you? That can only be achieved by those that are capable of doing so. Anyone else can still upload their mods to the steam workshop for download. Studio 397 can't be any fairer than that surely? :)


Only touching on one aspect of your post, they want a 50% share of the revenue (not profit, revenue) for the workshop.


Just to understand what your stating.......... Who are "they" highlighted above in your post? Steam or Studio397?
I thought Steam had decided to discontinue the ability to pay for "Workshop" content on Steam? There was a massive objection to it a while back.... I was under the impression that Steam had pulled the facility because of those objections? I doubt very much that any Workshop Content will sell very well at all due to the majorities attitude that workshop content should be free to download and use, which I personally think is an insult to those that have the ability to make good content and deserve at least some benefit(money) for the good work some do. The problem is that there is also a lot of crap on the workshop too which doesn't help the situation.

The reason I ask for clarity is cause payware DLC's are not part of the Steam Workshop as far as I understand it?

If it's Steam asking for the 50%(which I suspect it is?) then you cannot blame Studio 397 for that, that is a matter between Steam and it's user-base surely? "Up the revolution!!!"  ;D ;D
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: GP500 on December 14, 2018, 03:32:21 pm
It is Studio 397 taking 50% of the cut of any 3rd party content (such as KartSim) in the workshop. In their case, they sell via inventory items.

Steam itself takes a minimum of 30% of the games it displays. Apparently for some other smaller titles they were looking for even more but I stopped talking to those developers so I don't know how it changed, one I know did change from 40% to 30% so they began selling on Steam.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: Hawk on December 14, 2018, 05:03:55 pm
Quote from: GP500 on December 14, 2018, 03:32:21 pm
It is Studio 397 taking 50% of the cut of any 3rd party content (such as KartSim) in the workshop. In their case, they sell via inventory items.

Steam itself takes a minimum of 30% of the games it displays. Apparently for some other smaller titles they were looking for even more but I stopped talking to those developers so I don't know how it changed, one I know did change from 40% to 30% so they began selling on Steam.


I've no doubt that 50% will include Steams charges as well as Studio 397's cut.
Studio 397 is doing all the selling through it's rFactor 2 store and use of it's platform for selling ones product. The developers of the Kartsim MOD will just be receiving their income direct from Studio 397 not Steam; so it won't be a case of Studio 397 taking 50% and also Steam taking another min of 30% too leaving the developer with only 20%
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: GP500 on December 17, 2018, 02:50:37 pm
I give up, no more attempts of a semblance of conversation.
Title: Re: PiBoSo and simracing youtubers
Post by: passerBy on February 25, 2019, 05:39:39 am
I personally think the UI is fine, though some touching up here and there (and including support for 16:9) might liven things up.
There is however one big problem with it (just like with isiMotor based sims): stuff takes forever to load. Even off an SSD... And during loading some might get the idea the process has hung.
Also, indeed, it's about time to replace that horrible sound effect for mouse hover.

Another problem I think I had already mentioned at some point is that the products names are working against you, Piboso. They can't get any more generic than that. Try talking about "GP Bikes" with someone who never heard of Piboso, what will be the first thing coming into their mind? The actual GP bikes, not the sim. Kart Racing Pro is not a whole lot better in that regard, whereas KartKraft does sound like a game name. And for better marketing you need names that stick. I, for one, used to forget what KRP's name was. It's that generic...

Your best bet, in my opinion, is GP Bikes though, not KRP. That product is simply unique, unlike WRS, KRP or even MXB. And I'm happy it's getting more love as of late. It needs, however, to have its glaring issues fixed ASAP. And please do something about the ground kicking. It has not helped me ONCE, yet it made me go into a wall way too often.