The reason for my post, is that sadly, one of my local tracks has been closed until further notice for safety reasons, which in itself isn't really too big of a deal.
Its the circumstances in which it has had to cancel meetings and stop operations that's the worrying part.
Here are the original Posts:
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3XT1qr6/crop-post2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VL31v8ST/crop-post.png) (https://postimages.org/)
For those that haven't been, Aintree is set in a huge expanse in the centre of the Grand National horse racing course, and has some of the largest run off areas seen in club racing, however it also has some of the highest speeds as well.
For those wondering here;s an onboard: (NOT ME just taken off youtube:
In the post, the surface condition is mentioned, and for me, (whose only ever spectated, not ridden), I can see the bikes clearly juddering up and down on what seems like an overly bumpy surface, and this pic shows its not a particularly modern surface, and as such this is possibly the most justifiable suggestion/requirement.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qt5Yf2NB/Aintree-Track-pic-e1497169039961.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6Jy4hb9)
The issue comes with the rest of the requirements, which could bring it on par safety wise with Donnington/Oulton, which again isn't a bad thing on its own, but should this standard be homologated across UK tracks, it could close several tracks for club racing as there are quite a few that meet those standards. Cadwell, Mallory, and Castle Combe spring instantly to mind.
The next issue comes with the fact that lawyers are chasing a claim, for a huge amount of money, despite the fact the rider has signed a waver, and all the necessary indemnity/declaration forms accepting responsibility. If he is successful in getting a claim, (Which I doubt he will be personally), then it could set a precedent, and make it near impossible for tracks/riders to get any relevant life/medical insurance, for fear of them having to pay out large sums of money every race meeting.
The fact that they are still pursuing the claim, despite the fact he's got written legal documents accepting responsibility for his actions could also cause issues in that any written legally binding contract could become null and void, and not just in racing, but in work contracts as well.
Granted these are extreme circumstances, and in the grand scheme of things, I doubt much will come of it except Aintree becoming a little safer and losing a year of racing (Providing it reopens, as if I'm not mistaken its a non-profit organisation and track resurface works are expensive).
It's just a shame that this has to happen, and the fact that People have lost their lives at Aintree, and nothing was done, as they, like this accident, were unique and rarely because the rider hit anything, but the minute lawyers were involved it was shut at the drop of a hat, despite meeting the safety regs for this year.
According to what I heard, (I wasn't there) the rider has some form of paralysis, (Not sure how bad), as he ran on at T3 onto the back straight, and hit the wall separating the course from the houses. For those that haven't been to Aintree, I'd say its about 150-200m away from the racing course, and is a unique incident in that no-one to my knowledge has done that ever :/
I should also point out, that the FB comments weren't exactly friendly to the rider, and while some were comical, 'Giving him something to actually claim about' isn't the right option, especially considering he may have life changing injuries, so if you're going to reply to this or on the Aintree FB, don't be a d**k, and don't spread rumours that aren't true.
PS: I am not involved in the running of this course, or involved in the organisation of any events, I'm just calling it like I see it and wondering what others perceive of this, or whether I'm making it into something its not
Damn its sad :-( What I really admire in UK is that you have so many tracks in UK. If you have some cash and will you could ride a lot :-( in Poland we have 2 full lengh tracks where 1 is old and might be closed because people from nerby houses cant stand the noise.
Its sad because tracks are the only place where people can burn their energy and ride slower on the roads :-(
I think I'making something a little big of a deal than it's not, but due to lawyers getting involved there are a few issues arising, especially since that they're disregarding written contracts and agreements in pursuit of it.
I never want to see someone get injured, but in bike racing you gotta accept its a possibility, and if they're going to get lawyers involved WHEN they get injured, then maybe they're in the wrong sport.
As for the ACU shutting the track, they've got to cover their back s and be seen to be doing to I can understand the reasoning for shutting it.
This is why we have this sticker Plastered around the Tracks in the UK
(https://ultra4racing.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/motorsport-dangerous1.png)
IF the track isn't up to a "minimum" safety standard then that's no good but before any event, it is down to a rider to assess the track and if they are not happy with its condition or safety measures in place then they need to say/do something or simply not take part.
He probably will get a settlement just to try and keep a status quo. Hopefully, this doesn't set a president though or act as a Landmark case in court otherwise every knob who hurts themselves while on track will look to sue...
Not only that, but if insurers are going to be required to pay out each meeting... Its going to make it so expensive that it could literally kill the sport.
As well as this, if the ACU have to introduce these safety standards across all the tracks to prevent people suing... most UK tracks don't have the funds for this, and don't have the space for the run offs required...
Kiss places like Mallory, Cadwell, and Smaller tracks, like my other local (Three sisters) goodbye (for bikes at least) as they wont be able to meet the required standards due to their geography and lack of extra space
If insurance companies had their way you would pay your premium and then never partake in whatever you are insured for :P
Most of the good old tracks could be considered dangerous by today's standards. They were built for racers and vehicles that thought 100mph was fast.
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 30, 2019, 08:13:08 PMIf insurance companies had their way you would pay your premium and then never partake in whatever you are insured for :P
Most of the good old tracks could be considered dangerous by today's standards. They were built for racers and vehicles that thought 100mph was fast.
That's the way I see it going sadly, especially considering the solicitors have openly disregarded the legal contracts binding any responsibility to the rider :(
And the 'good old tracks' average speeds have pretty much close to doubled in the past 30 years, which is a huge increase, and as a result their tech does lag behind sometimes.
Its also a shame that Aintree had the correct safety certs, and had passed the inspections, but as soon as lawyers get their arsy noses in it gets its certs pulled.
I can think of loads more tracks that have less safety run off vs average lap speed than Aintree, Darley moor being one, and even oulton struggles to match the run off amount in comparison.
All this and then Formula E rolls into town and they get to race around central London. Funny when there is a huge advertiment opportunity things happen... ::)
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 30, 2019, 08:43:25 PMAll this and then Formula E rolls into town and they get to race around central London. Funny when there is a huge advertiment opportunity things happen... ::)
Amen to that
Quote from: matty0l215 on April 30, 2019, 08:43:25 PMAll this and then Formula E rolls into town and they get to race around central London. Funny when there is a huge advertiment opportunity things happen... ::)
I know it hurts but no matter the context (race tracks or road) bikes generates more serious accidents and injuries than cars (per Km).
As a biker, I wouldn't try to fight that fight, it's a lost one.
Oh no doubt at all.
Uk am racing is dying for other reasons besides some tracks being closed.
It's too expensive. To get anywhere you either have to be the next casey stoner, or have a LOT of money. Teams in bsb are asking young riders for silly amounts of money plus crash damage just to join their teams. 20 grand PLUS CRASH DAMAGE. thats almost someones yearly salary?! Sponsors dont want to sponsor because businesses are struggling. Riders resort to doing not so legal things just to afford to carry on doing what they not only love but are REALLY good at.
I've seen too many talented riders go nowhere because of this. sponsors just don't want to know. teams are after the money instead of actually supporting an up and coming rider. Teams are even literally scamming people. None of this gets publicised because its very very bad for bsb and Motorsport in general. People are having to be so careful whilst reading contracts n shit... shouldnt have to. things like if rider leaves team at any point he still has to pay for the rest of the season, some teams have even taken payment upwards of 20 grand and literally disbanded the team giving the rider nothing back.
thats whats killing am racing. if u can only just afford club racing, you might as well give up now because unless u got a BIG wod of cash sitting around somewhere, you're going nowhere. end of.
I know this because the guys i know dont have millions (literally) you are not going anywhere.
British talent cup. Scott ogden gets pole and a win. i raced against that kid. never beat him, but he also never won the championship, i think he finished third in the championship i was in, which was a junior class at the time 13-18 year olds.
the other riders? well ones parents own HM quickshifter, and is riding a thousand AND a 600 across the nation (he also did not win the championship, or any at the time of writing this). the guy who won the championship? well, hes in British Talent cup, capable of winning, very talented rider. very fast.
i know i speak alot of semi professional racing. but its still the same for any am racers who aspire to be more.
old saying but still stands true today: Its not what you know, its who you know. And also how much money you're willing to spend. (because even people who know the right people still dont have enough money to convince them to give them a ride for a year)
The point I was attempting to make is so much the fact the track being closed as to the reasons behind it.
As for money requirements, it all really depends how far you want to go, however it is extremely difficult to get the funds for anyone to have a bash at entering anything more than a national stage. The British talent Cup boasts some of the highest rider running costs around, as it was something I did debate when it was being founded, but saw the cost and just closed the laptop.
If you're only wanting to do club racing, (I'm talking novice - ameatur, even below semi pro)
Then the cost is slightly more maneageble, however its debatable how far one will get on a career, if that's even a goal.
And to be honest, club racing at this level has seen an influx of newcomers, and the paddocks are much fuller than they were 5-10 +years ago, with the newcomers classes I've seen having at least 10 riders each, with some as young as 12 in them
I'd say the VERY entry level is growing, but after that it's iffy, the only reason I called this topic 'the death of club racing' is because of the future implications of getting lawyers involved to overturn the signing of an indemnity form/contrac
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 01, 2019, 11:10:12 PMThe point I was attempting to make is so much the fact the track being closed as to the reasons behind it.
As for money requirements, it all really depends how far you want to go, however it is extremely difficult to get the funds for anyone to have a bash at entering anything more than a national stage. The British talent Cup boasts some of the highest rider running costs around, as it was something I did debate when it was being founded, but saw the cost and just closed the laptop.
If you're only wanting to do club racing, (I'm talking novice - ameatur, even below semi pro)
Then the cost is slightly more maneageble, however its debatable how far one will get on a career, if that's even a goal.
And to be honest, club racing at this level has seen an influx of newcomers, and the paddocks are much fuller than they were 5-10 +years ago, with the newcomers classes I've seen having at least 10 riders each, with some as young as 12 in them
I'd say the VERY entry level is growing, but after that it's iffy, the only reason I called this topic 'the death of club racing' is because of the future implications of getting lawyers involved to overturn the signing of an indemnity form/contrac
fab racing and bsb's partnership isnt doing anything to help the clubs like thundersport and bemsee either. the costs are astronomical and usually the person who wins btc ends up riding in moto3 for a year only to never be seen again probably because theyve been milked of all their savings and are now in alot of debt. its very sad
this is bullshit though. riders know the dangers, they shouldnt be allowed to compete if they dont acknowledge they very well could die in a crash. everyone who races knows this. but theres always one dickhead who just cant let things go, cant allow people to enjoy their hobbies, this track looks the bollocks, id LOVE to ride around it. guess i cant until this prick drops the claims. i mean who the fuck in their right mind crashes and then blames the circuit?!?!? ok, yeah, if its really REALLY bad and EVERYONE is complaining then fine, something needs to be done. but you dont ever go as far to get legal action taken against a track because of your own error, thats just selfish and ignorant, theres alot of those people in bike racing unfortunately but not to this extent!
honestly people like this make me sick, its not just the circuit that suffers, its the competitors since im sure there are some who only do aintree, for whatever reasons, it could be their favourite, they could be local. anything. shutting a track down because you want some money from an accident regardless of it being life changing or not, is a cunt move to make. theres insurance for racers out there, he clearly didnt have any and after seeing how much he couldve got he probably cant help himself. pathetic excuse for a man. hes not just taking away from competitors, hes taking it away for the owners, the marshalls who im sure do it for free just so others can enjoy it, and the spectators who im sure there are a bunch of them who love aintree and probably go to every event.
i know its not the right thing to say but i really wish this guy gets alot of hate of alot of people for causing so much shit. ive had big crashes, but ive never blamed it on the circuit, and always taken responsibility where due. some things are unavoidable but those situations are unavoidable in general. shit happens, you get unlucky, thats life. fucking man up and deal with it instead of fuckign other peoples shit up just so u can get some money from it. gross. i really hope he doesnt get fuck all for this cos itll only become a trend and theres always gonna be the next twat waiting to make a claim against a circuit.
The 'no win no fee' solicitors don't particularly help, as the fact they exist means people will claim for everything, as they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I believe their existence is part of the reason that the 'blame' culture exists, however in most cases they're just doing their job, and I don't blame them for the situation Aintree finds itself in.
As for the rider, I'm not sure exactly what he's suing for, or who hes suing, whether its because of lack of safety measures, or medical negligence at the time, or whether its Aintree MCRC, or the ACU (I do also understand this meeting was cancelled mid way due to the simple fact the 'on call' hospital ran out of ambulances and bed space, as it was last race of the season, and when one of the fastest tracks in the UK has, with the kindest will in the world, Amateurs going 180mph at least on superbikes, the chances for serious issues is very high which doesn't help the case).
To some extent I don't really blame him for suing, I mean, from what I heard (Not 100% as I wasn't there and I don't know said rider but source is quite reliable) hes got permanent neck down paralysis, at which point, life would pretty much be over, or certainly very difficult, so what more has he got to lose? Especially with the no win no fee solicitors, his thought process would be 'may as well try, not like I'm gonna be at a race again'
Like you said, its what it means if he gets something, and what precedent it sets, as if there's a crash are people going to sue, and are tracks going to have to be shut because of it? That's the big question.
That's sad news I had no idea! Raced here a couple of times. Track is mega fast but bumpy as hell. Especially heading onto the back straight, it's a flat out through the gears right hander onto a km long straight lol. The bumps come from repaired patches in the tarmac. Was a lot worse on my old bike with shit suspension though lol. I crashed big time and destroyed the bike lol I must have bounced and rolled for 200metres across the grass lol. Hurt like hell but no major injuries.
I hope it doesn't start something because I can think of worse places and tracks to crash at/on.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 01, 2019, 10:04:10 PMI hope it doesn't start something because I can think of worse places and tracks to crash at/on.
Precisely my worry. I don't see him getting anything though as he signed the waver
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 01, 2019, 10:04:10 PMI crashed big time and destroyed the bike lol I must have bounced and rolled for 200metres across the grass lol. Hurt like hell but no major injuries.
Glad to hear there's no major injuries, but I should imagine it still ached the next morning. Just out of curiosity, was that the one you posted in the 'Trackday Photos' thread?
Lol yeah that's the one! The run off onto the grass isn't great there because it drops down lol so my front wheel dug in and spat me off. Don't remember much after that it was carnage lol. Photographer got the whole thing as me and the bike barrel rolled across the grass lol good times 😂
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 04, 2019, 06:07:20 AMLol yeah that's the one! The run off onto the grass isn't great there because it drops down lol so my front wheel dug in and spat me off. Don't remember much after that it was carnage lol. Photographer got the whole thing as me and the bike barrel rolled across the grass lol good times 😂
Being a tumble dryer isn't what I'd call a good time but glad you enjoyed it 😉😂
Lol yeah it wasn't good tbh, put me off Aintree for a while but it was my own fault for out braking myself. Went back on my newer bike and really enjoyed it. No good results but managed to get a load of clean laps in and bring my laptimes down. Felt so much better with the suspension right. Great track I hope it sticks.
Even as a spectator I could see who had a decent setup vs who didn't.
It was insanely obvious how bumpy it was even watching.
The ACU has said a resurface is necessary, (kind of agree with it) and if I'm not mistaken is currently being priced up.
They have a bunch of aintree MCRC merch on ebay, to raise funds, like hats and shirts
Resurface would be very nice. As long as they keep the camber on turn 2! It's a suprisingly technical track for how simple the layout is lol the last corner after the straight is like an egg shape and that tricks people with the best line through it lol. Got some good history too! I think they used it for F1 back in the day or something like that.
Would make a good track for GPBIKES too! 😉
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on July 04, 2019, 04:51:20 PMGot some good history too! I think they used it for F1 back in the day or something like that.
Would make a good track for GPBIKES too! 😉
To this day it remains to be Britain's first, and only purpose built formula one track. Silverstone, brands, Donnington etc were all airfields.
I have tried to get it into GPB, but my nodding skills are nowhere near able to get anything done aside from paints
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on July 04, 2019, 08:11:16 PMQuote from: BOBR6 84 on July 04, 2019, 04:51:20 PMGot some good history too! I think they used it for F1 back in the day or something like that.
Would make a good track for GPBIKES too! 😉
To this day it remains to be Britain's first, and only purpose built formula one track. Silverstone, brands, Donnington etc were all airfields.
I have tried to get it into GPB, but my nodding skills are nowhere near able to get anything done aside from paints
Have you got a copy of the track from another game?? If so, send me over any files you've got and I will see what I can do.
Did have a version on Assetto Corsa, and Rf2, will have a look when I get in from work see if I can send the files.
Well this is what happens when you let the bigots and do-gooders rule the roost....
People should be able to sign a waiver against any compensation claims and then just go out and enjoy themselves and entertain others in the process......
Bloody bigoted do-gooder nanny state.... Let's be rid of em! >:(
Quote from: Hawk on July 05, 2019, 10:51:34 AMPeople should be able to sign a waiver against any compensation claims and then just go out and enjoy themselves and entertain others in the process......
He did sign the waiver thats the point. He signed all the legal documentation, and accepted full responsibility for everything in said waiver.
However the lawyers are saying the waiver is 'irrelevant' supposedly.
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Quote from: matty0l215 on July 04, 2019, 08:53:06 PMHave you got a copy of the track from another game?? If so, send me over any files you've got and I will see what I can do.
@matty0l215
Here is the Aintree file, used in RF2. The 'Club' circuit, is the one used for bike racing, although the original f1 circuit could be fun for using the old Nortons on as well.
It is based off the 1960s version, so while the track layout is the same, the external objs aren't currently accurate.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccoc7p3jse86b09/Aintree_v0-9.rfcmp
Probably yet another unwanted interference from the so called EU Court of Justice that overrides our sovereign UK laws.... Damn.... The sooner we leave that wretched organisation the better! ;D ;)