Hi there, long time no see.
Just a quick question: ist it possible to make a custom GPB controller with the TS500RS base? Maybe some of you have some experience with that, since I don't ;D
Oh and second: do you think it would be possible for me, an complete noob, to do such work?
Personally I like the idea of a real controller and since I want to have FFB and do this on a budget ( :P )
I thought using my current base would be quite the idea. Despite this, I really want to reignite my love with the game, since I am currently done with most of my A-levels and the needed changes in the game to make the old mods work are minimal.
MCF
Welcome back!!
( I'm new here, but anyway it feels nice that you found your way here again ;) )
It depends on how much you want to mod it!
What do you plan on doing? Full controls?
I just built a controller around a driving force GT wheel for "proof of concept". I'm using an Arduino Leonardo and different sensors for buttons and controls, and the wheel only for steering. For now I just put the handlebar on top of the wheel with Velcro straps. I don't want to ruin the wheel since I will be making the finished force feedback controller myself and keeping the wheel for playing with ps3.
I wouldn't call myself very experienced, but I do have some knowledge about the electronics and mechanics of it. I've learnt a lot in the process too. I'll put the project up here on the forum soon.
How much of your complete noobness is you being humble vs noobness?
Youtuber "Mixed Reality Sim Racing" has made a cool controller from a Fanatec wheel. You can see it in the community section of his YouTube profile. He modded a handlebar to a Fanatec hub and connected the controls to the pedals in some way. Worth looking at!
Move the bars to the bottom of the wheel is better and use Leo Bodnar BU0836 usb board with a matrix board for 32 buttons one 8way hat and 8 analog inputs
DD
HI, Good to know about your come back :) I am new too but hey that's still cool :) I am waiting my T300rs (should arrive tomorrow) So yes it is possible to mount a full control handlebar on a quick release HUB for t500/300rs. I made my hanld bar with electronic throttle (0-5V from scotter parts) break and clutc with real hydraulic set on Aliexpress (around 30 euros) and everthing is mounted on a real handlbar from china too( I used straight bar that I bend a little bit to have same angle from my 600 CBR) I will post all picture of the project when I am done.And for buttons etc I use the leobodnard that DD suggested to me and it is very simple. So yes you can use your t500 base to put with the quick release a full handlbar controller (as for the break or rear brake You can use real part or do as @Chris_Beeves said go to the mixed reality sim channel and check how Marcel have done with his fanatec pedal and to the same with Thrustmaster pedals.
I don't think it is quite difficult , it depends how much you want to put and how many details you want to put in there.
For me I will try to use DSA mode so my handlebar will be a little bit higher than the axis of the base cause I want to have same "deport" than my real bike^^ but the pendulum system of DD is great if you jste want to use FFB in normal mode.
If you have questions feel free to ask, I will be happy to help.
I can't wait to receive my T300rs !!!!!
When I will do first tests I will post pics of the rig.
That really depends on what you want to accomplish.
For "arcade style" default steering, your way is probably the better way.
For "direct steer" I find tilting the wheel so the steering axle is in a "close-to-real-life-rake" angle, and then putting the handlebars exactly as a triple clamp would go on a real bike is the closest you will get to the real thing.
The Arduino Leonardo with "Joystick library" is easily configured for all the inputs you will ever need. (32 button, 4hat, 8 analog etc..)
Edit: this was a response to DD's post :)
Totally agree with Chris_Beeves :)
If I'm not mistaken, you can run the thrust master bases on their own, so just a simple board with an extra USB Cable would be sufficient, but if you don't have that, I'd guess you could modify k e of the older 'cheaper' rims for it (I've debated changing up the original 458 rim, only downside is you lose any analogue inputs, so would need a spare set of pedals too to wire in)
By simple board I did consider modifying one of my old, and redundant xbox one USB controller
@Chris_Beeves what is the leonardo's resolution for analog axes? I think it's 8-bit (255 steps), but I'm not sure. The leo bodnar board is 12-bit (4096 steps), so it might be the better choice. Although it is much more expensive.
Thank you guys for the kind support :)
I will just have a detailled look at what you wrote to me and research this Leonardo thing :)
MCF
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 03, 2019, 06:57:52 AMHI, Good to know about your come back :) I am new too but hey that's still cool :) I am waiting my T300rs (should arrive tomorrow) So yes it is possible to mount a full control handlebar on a quick release HUB for t500/300rs. I made my hanld bar with electronic throttle (0-5V from scotter parts) break and clutc with real hydraulic set on Aliexpress (around 30 euros) and everthing is mounted on a real handlbar from china too( I used straight bar that I bend a little bit to have same angle from my 600 CBR) I will post all picture of the project when I am done.And for buttons etc I use the leobodnard that DD suggested to me and it is very simple. So yes you can use your t500 base to put with the quick release a full handlbar controller (as for the break or rear brake You can use real part or do as @Chris_Beeves said go to the mixed reality sim channel and check how Marcel have done with his fanatec pedal and to the same with Thrustmaster pedals.
I don't think it is quite difficult , it depends how much you want to put and how many details you want to put in there.
For me I will try to use DSA mode so my handlebar will be a little bit higher than the axis of the base cause I want to have same "deport" than my real bike^^ but the pendulum system of DD is great if you jste want to use FFB in normal mode.
If you have questions feel free to ask, I will be happy to help.
I can't wait to receive my T300rs !!!!!
When I will do first tests I will post pics of the rig.
Oh nice, well, this really comes in handy :D
I will do some drawing on my whiteboard to have an first impression and "prototype", but I guess I will start my project when you finished yours, so I have a little bit of an manual how to do it ;D
I really want to do this, so thanky y'all for your help :)
MCF
Quote from: TimboC137 on May 03, 2019, 09:56:03 AM@Chris_Beeves what is the leonardo's resolution for analog axes? I think it's 8-bit (255 steps), but I'm not sure. The leo bodnar board is 12-bit (4096 steps), so it might be the better choice. Although it is much more expensive.
10-bit.
More than enough for a game controller imo.
Quote from: MultiCOOLFRESH on May 03, 2019, 09:59:16 AMThank you guys for the kind support :)
I will just have a detailled look at what you wrote to me and research this Leonardo thing :)
MCF
I can send you the Leonardo sketch I'm using. That is the easy part.
Making the controllers is the difficult thing I think.
Quote from: Chris_Beeves on May 03, 2019, 10:48:12 AMQuote from: MultiCOOLFRESH on May 03, 2019, 09:59:16 AMThank you guys for the kind support :)
I will just have a detailled look at what you wrote to me and research this Leonardo thing :)
MCF
Making the controllers is the difficult thing I think.
What do you exactly mean ??? :)
MCF
Quote from: MultiCOOLFRESH on May 03, 2019, 10:52:52 AMWhat do you exactly mean ??? :)
MCF
Whether you use the Leonardo, bognar, Xbox or something else, converting hydraulic brakes, load cells, wires or what ever solution you choose, to analog signals is the challenging bit. Programming the Arduino is super simple when you have a finished sketch.
Quote from: Chris_Beeves on May 03, 2019, 11:04:00 AMQuote from: MultiCOOLFRESH on May 03, 2019, 10:52:52 AMWhat do you exactly mean ??? :)
MCF
Whether you use the Leonardo, bognar, Xbox or something else, converting hydraulic brakes, load cells, wires or what ever solution you choose, to analog signals is the challenging bit. Programming the Arduino is super simple when you have a finished sketch.
Ah, yeah, I already think about how to do that. But hey, I will wait 'till poupou59890 is done with his build :)
MCF
Hi Guys, If I have some time this weekend I will start t make a post for my rig. But honestly it is pretty simple, furthermore with the leobodnard you don't have to code anything. for the analog I choose easy way cause I did not have 3D printer ...
For the throttle I use a 0-5V throttle from e-bike parts : http://evcomponents.com/ebike-parts/wuxing-ltx-ebike-throttle.html (not exactly this one but it's almost the same) just pay attention than you need 22mm trhottle in order to use a real handlebar)
For the clutch, front break and rear brake (not clutch at this time I am waiting to check everything else before buying a complete set for the clutch) I use cheap chinese set of hydraulic lever on Aliexpress, than transducer (500 and 1000psi) in order to traanform the pressure apply to a signal between 0-5V. Here again, just plug everythign and that's it. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Motobike-Racing-bike-lever-handle-bar-brake-pump-hydraulic-clutch-set-kit-17-5-piston-cylinder/32718100514.html
and for the pressure transducer : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-Pressure-transducer-sender-for-oil-fuel-air-water-100psi-2500psi-/172780141579
for the buttons, just use simple on/off contact or motorbike contact set and plug in directly to the leobodnard.
For the gear shift, I need to finish this one. I use real motorbike shifter from China (same set than the rear brake with master cylinder and pressure transudcer), I think I will use 2 buttons and put a screw next to each one in order to be sure that it will be the screw to stop the foot peg and not the button to avoid breaking it.
So for now I have every parts, I have use a cbr 600 rr template on Solidworks in order to draw my "chassis" with exact same dimension than a real one bike and I use direct steering with angle in order to be as real as it can. hope it will work :)
and if eveything is perfect I will try to use a 2DOF air sim balance system in order to add real lean thanks to GPbikes data ouptut. but I am no there yet. Hope it can help.
Even is the leabodnard is a bit pricey (around 60 euros) it is very easy to use, no driver, just plug eveything at the right place, put the usb and that's it.
Wow, thanks mate for the info, I will surely soon start the project :D
MCF
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 03, 2019, 12:07:17 PMFor the clutch, front break and rear brake (not clutch at this time I am waiting to check everything else before buying a complete set for the clutch) I use cheap chinese set of hydraulic lever on Aliexpress, than transducer (500 and 1000psi) in order to traanform the pressure apply to a signal between 0-5V. Here again, just plug everythign and that's it. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Motobike-Racing-bike-lever-handle-bar-brake-pump-hydraulic-clutch-set-kit-17-5-piston-cylinder/32718100514.html
and for the pressure transducer : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-Pressure-transducer-sender-for-oil-fuel-air-water-100psi-2500psi-/172780141579
Excellent idea with the hydraulics! Quite easy to install compared to other solutions, and the feel must be perfect!
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 03, 2019, 12:07:17 PMFor the gear shift, I need to finish this one. I use real motorbike shifter from China (same set than the rear brake with master cylinder and pressure transudcer), I think I will use 2 buttons and put a screw next to each one in order to be sure that it will be the screw to stop the foot peg and not the button to avoid breaking it.
I used guitar pedal switches for my gear shifter setup. They are made for drunk bass players stomping them. Should be fine!
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 03, 2019, 12:07:17 PMSo for now I have every parts, I have use a cbr 600 rr template on Solidworks in order to draw my "chassis" with exact same dimension than a real one bike and I use direct steering with angle in order to be as real as it can. hope it will work :)
and if eveything is perfect I will try to use a 2DOF air sim balance system in order to add real lean thanks to GPbikes data ouptut. but I am no there yet. Hope it can help.
Even is the leabodnard is a bit pricey (around 60 euros) it is very easy to use, no driver, just plug eveything at the right place, put the usb and that's it.
Sounds really ambitious! Can't wait to see it take form! :D
The price difference between the Bodnar and the Leonardo is quite big yes (60 euros vs. 10 tops). And the Leo does everything that the Bodnar does (albeit "only" 10-bit). However if I had set a bigger budget I would probably go for the Bodnar anyway.. Just feels better to have a board that someone that really knows their s**t designed. ;)
Hi everyone,
As I said in an other post (DS2 users) I received the t300rs yesterday and the feeling is AWESOME !!!!! I think this is the best way to simulate real motorbike behavior for me. The feeling to sens the wobble and dribbling on the front side is awesome, it is exactly as Marcel shows in his vieo, the game react exactly 1:1 with my steer angle/wheel rotation. I can exit pit easier than the G25 (without crashing) I can do full lap without crashing. For now I did not attached yet the handlebar on it so when everything will be plug it will be very cool for sure and the best experience with bike sim for now. I still try to design my fix sit up rig in order to be as compact as possible but with real size too ^^ so When I receive the quick release adapter I will mount it with my hanldbars and the adventure can begin :)
SO yes it is posible to have great feeling in DS2/DSA with a FFb wheel (for me it is the simplest way to have full feeling on a bike sim) and if the rig can lean as real will be awesome (but this will be for another time)
I will post pictures of the rig design and wheel/handlebars system later.
I filled the brake fluid yesterday, and the feeling is good with the breka lever but I found that the range it is not as expected, not very linear...but I will try to adpat that later when the full rig will be built.
Can't wait to see it running on VR :)
Sounds awesome, can't wait to see more :D
MCF
Go, poupou, go!
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 09, 2019, 06:37:31 AMand if the rig can lean as real will be awesome (but this will be for another time)
This has been discussed a whole lot, and leaning a motorcycle sim would probably not contribute to a realistic feeling. The force vector is always parallel with the bikes "y-axis" (the one going straight up through the bike) no matter how much the bike is leaning (a very small difference depending on the tire width). Tilting a sim just makes you feel like you're falling off I guess.
I would put my money on acceleration and braking(raising and lowering the front) and yaw (making the rear go from side to side). That would make a cool experience I think.
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 09, 2019, 06:37:31 AMI filled the brake fluid yesterday, and the feeling is good with the breka lever but I found that the range it is not as expected, not very linear...but I will try to adpat that later when the full rig will be built.
Can't wait to see it running on VR :)
Since there are no calipers, there is no motion for you to feel in the brake handle.. To replicate motion I would try leaving a few bubbles of air in the system while bleeding. That would give you a small "sponge" perhaps?
Edit: then the pressure sensor can't be the lowest point. The bubble would find its way out..
You cant have air in the system or the transducer will always register a bit of input in windows. When you calibrate the system in windows control calibration you can change how much pressure will go from off to full pressure by how hard you pull on the lever. Also works in calibration in GPB
DD
Does that not make the lever extremely stiff when there's nothing "flexing"?
Why can't you calibrate it with air in the system?
It is very stiff but my levers have leverage adjusters so it gives a bit of play until its all about how much pressure you apply.
A transducer needs a certain amount of pressure to calibrate its 0 volt point, if that is not reach due to air then the transducer send a fluctuating voltage signal to windows.
DD
Mmm.. Sounds like the "dead zone" could remedy that, or what is the amplitude?
I would think that the pressure wouldn't go to zero just because there is a little bubble in the line? All air, yes, but a bubble?
Sounds like there is some room for improvement there.
But I guess you get used to the feeling anyway, so no biggie.
Been using hydraulic brakes for over a year and made enough systems to know lol.
The problem is air in the system reduces the required pressure on the transducer. It is really a cost thing. with the money you can do it but its not cheap. Saying that I am visiting a company soon to look into this problem.
DD
What transducer are you using? Is it directly connected to the bodnar?
My first thought is a cheap Chinese rear caliper and a banjo bolt pressure sensor. Just letting the caliper squeeze itself or a material of your choice for different feel.
I use 1600psi transducers direct to BU0836A from bodnar yes. Will be looking at full unit with caliper and master cyclinder using brake switch banjo for transducer feed. Should solve the problem.
Yes a good 6mm steel plate to replace disc.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 10, 2019, 07:49:42 AMI use 1600psi transducers direct to BU0836A from bodnar yes.
If the voltage doesn't vary a whole lot (which I don't see why it should), a small coil in series and a cap on the input would probably filter out the "low pressure sway". It should also make the signal smoother. So it's never a bad idea with a little filtering. :)
I think maybe I should stop soiling MCF's thread with this though. Please, pm if you want to discuss it, I love these kind of "problems"!
Quote from: Chris_Beeves on May 10, 2019, 06:51:38 AMQuote from: poupou59890 on May 09, 2019, 06:37:31 AMand if the rig can lean as real will be awesome (but this will be for another time)
This has been discussed a whole lot, and leaning a motorcycle sim would probably not contribute to a realistic feeling. The force vector is always parallel with the bikes "y-axis" (the one going straight up through the bike) no matter how much the bike is leaning (a very small difference depending on the tire width). Tilting a sim just makes you feel like you're falling off I guess.
I would put my money on acceleration and braking(raising and lowering the front) and yaw (making the rear go from side to side). That would make a cool experience I think.
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 09, 2019, 06:37:31 AMI filled the brake fluid yesterday, and the feeling is good with the breka lever but I found that the range it is not as expected, not very linear...but I will try to adpat that later when the full rig will be built.
Can't wait to see it running on VR :)
Since there are no calipers, there is no motion for you to feel in the brake handle.. To replicate motion I would try leaving a few bubbles of air in the system while bleeding. That would give you a small "sponge" perhaps?
Edit: then the pressure sensor can't be the lowest point. The bubble would find its way out..
Thanks for your reply aand your help.
Yes I will start with a fix rig for now, in VR trying to see if there a real effect to have real lean. but Yes I think maybe the main point is to have pitch...
For the lever Yes I need to optimise the feeling and especially the range, If I don't have same feeling than reality it is not a probleme, just to do not have full braking just when I press lever. So if i tweak it with %pressure etc I think I can have something good...at least for me. same for the rear.
For now I press a real hard the lever in calibration in order to never have full braking except under some circumstances. so I just need to adapt myself at this braking :)
Im just trying to help by telling you the facts of hydraulic brakes chris. You HAVE to bleed ALL air out of the system for it to work properly what part of that dont you get???
Poupou, if you just use less pressure when you first calibrate it in windows the brake will be easier to use and not need so much pressure to get to full braking. You can do the same in GPB calibration by how much you pull or press the lever, you dont have to push it to the stop to calibrate it just play with different pressure in calibration until you get it how you like it.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 10, 2019, 09:38:16 PMIm just trying to help by telling you the facts of hydraulic brakes chris. You HAVE to bleed ALL air out of the system for it to work properly what part of that dont you get???
There is absolutely no need to be rude DD.
I know how hydraulics work. I know how air affects a hydraulic system (that's why I presented it as a possible solution).
I also know that if you have a sensor of any kind that behaves the way you describe, you have a problem with your circuit design.
This is becoming less and less about MultiCOOLFRESH's initial question, so if you want to keep discussing this I suggest we do it in pm. :)
Hi everyone, sorry for not being here since few weeks....I had a lot things to do and not the mind to GPBikes... Now I receive today my tubes to build a fix rig, I have succeed to remove my bug with steamVR and gpbikes, so now everythign works (t300RS for lean anf FFB & leobodnard for eveyhting else) Now I need to build the rig during lunch time at work. I design something very simple due to VR I d not need to have a real bike, just the right commands at the right place. Then I will add a poly for the tank and the rear seat. I use 40x40 steel tube in order to have something solid and foldable leg, in order to have a big area when I use it , and fold it when it is not use.
I will try to give pictures As soon as the rig is build.
Hi Evryone,
I started to weld my chassis, I am waiting for tank and rear seat poly in order to put on the right place full commands.
need to finish my gear selector setup, but project is on the way :)
I will keep you updated.
ANd when is done, I will make a full post with pictures.
Hope DSA will be ridable with that :)
Excited to see the finished product and how it plays!
Not as excited as me :)
I hope that I will receives polys today...but I think that newt week, it hsould be done entirely.
Fingers crossed.
Hi Folks,
Just to let you know, I install everything on my chassis, put the t300rs, polys, and foot lever at the right place, everything is fine, the only issue I have is that the plastic part I use to connect t300rs and my handlebar is not strong enough, when i am on the bike and try to lean the plastic part start to crack... so I found the solution I will use a steel pivot and then I will connect it to the t300rs so the wheelbase never see any weight or strengh. I will do that this week I hope, then I need to finally finish my gear change lever and everything will be set up for the first start.
It looks quite good for now :) I will make a full post about my project when it will be done, so you will have all info or feedback I had..
Just need to weld everything correctly now that everything is in place.
I will keep you updated :)
Have a nice day everyone.
Quote from: poupou59890 on July 10, 2019, 06:11:53 AMHi Folks,
Just to let you know, I install everything on my chassis, put the t300rs, polys, and foot lever at the right place, everything is fine, the only issue I have is that the plastic part I use to connect t300rs and my handlebar is not strong enough, when i am on the bike and try to lean the plastic part start to crack... so I found the solution I will use a steel pivot and then I will connect it to the t300rs so the wheelbase never see any weight or strengh. I will do that this week I hope, then I need to finally finish my gear change lever and everything will be set up for the first start.
It looks quite good for now :) I will make a full post about my project when it will be done, so you will have all info or feedback I had..
Just need to weld everything correctly now that everything is in place.
I will keep you updated :)
Have a nice day everyone.
Sounds very nice :)
MCF
How is it going? Pictures!! :D
HI guys,
Sorry i did not have time this week, hopefully next week I will have time to mount gear lever and finally strentghten the handlebar....I have 3 weeks to finish this rig...
I will keep you updated :)
for the pictures I will try to send it next week
Quote from: poupou59890 on July 21, 2019, 08:07:03 PMHI guys,
Sorry i did not have time this week, hopefully next week I will have time to mount gear lever and finally strentghten the handlebar....I have 3 weeks to finish this rig...
I will keep you updated :)
for the pictures I will try to send it next week
Sooo.. How's it going? :D
My build is at a standstill, so it would be nice to see progress elsewhere! :)
Hi guys, sorry for the delay, I did not have time past weeks to work on it, I moved from south to north of France for personnal reasons so I did not have time to finish it.... I will keep back my rig on september (still in the south) so when I will have it again I will have time to finish it (I Hope..) I will keep you updated. I have somes pics, I will try to put it today.
thanks
HI,
please find below some pics of my actual rig, to finishi it I need to put gear change switch, need to make the pivot stronger (attach of the wheel) and try to find a solution to have braking more linear with the hydraulic system (or change it for potentiometer with the right spring)
other picture
final picture with foot lever, I use poly of ZX10RR 2011, everythign is exactly at the right place.
That looks awesome Poupou!
Wouldn't mind having the space and welding skills for such a rig..
Nice clean work m8.....hat off to you
DD
Quote from: poupou59890 on August 15, 2019, 10:18:15 AMHI,
please find below some pics of my actual rig, to finishi it I need to put gear change switch, need to make the pivot stronger (attach of the wheel) and try to find a solution to have braking more linear with the hydraulic system (or change it for potentiometer with the right spring)
Hi poupou59890,
To make the hydraulic brake more linear the guys that build hydraulic pedals and hydraulic handbrakes use a hydraulic pull slave cylinder and skateboard bushings. The skateboard bushings come in various hardness levels. Have a look at this video - https://youtu.be/gpbOFD2x1p0
Quote from: poupou59890 on August 15, 2019, 10:20:50 AMfinal picture with foot lever, I use poly of ZX10RR 2011, everythign is exactly at the right place.
Hey!
How's it going Poupou? Progress?