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GP Bikes => Mods => Bikes => Topic started by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 05:08:24 pm

Title: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 05:08:24 pm
Hi friends I have started to include this KTM Moto 3 in gp bikes, but I get it all wrong and do not know why. I think and put everything as it should be the wheels on axles 0 0 0. I tried putting the chassis axis 0 but I lower it even more. : (

(http://imageshack.com/a/img850/6229/xdlj.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img716/3111/tvi5.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: RBp on February 06, 2014, 05:18:00 pm
0.0.0 get's the model to show on screen you need to postion each item separate by moving it alittle in 3d max.
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Hawk on February 06, 2014, 05:59:15 pm
Quote from: RBp on February 06, 2014, 05:18:00 pm
0.0.0 get's the model to show on screen you need to postion each item separate by moving it alittle in 3d max.

Hi RBp

As I understood it. The x0 y0 z0 is the reference point GP Bikes uses to position each part(Chasis/wheels/fsusp/rsusp, etc, etc) to it's correct position for rendering?

When you say you need to also move each item a little in 3ds max....   Well how much is a little move to get things right?

Let me list the procedure as I understand it:
I'm still creating my bike model so I have not got to this stage yet, but this is how I understood the model intergration procedure for when I arrive at that situation. Have I got this procedure correct?
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 06:43:25 pm
Finally!! I have started to fight with 3dmax and eventually we became friends in this export to gp bikes ... hahaha. What I miss in the end is going slowly moving objects in 3d max to look good in Gp bikes. Thanks for the help now will try to put the string in the right place and will continue with the physical, finish the skin and the sound is done :).

(http://imageshack.com/a/img845/2149/wihz.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img35/3741/v0hk.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img32/5909/5xh7.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Harrytmj66 on February 06, 2014, 06:45:16 pm
Great work mate
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Toomes1 on February 06, 2014, 06:52:32 pm
this is fantastic, when do you think it will be ready to download
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: C21 on February 06, 2014, 06:53:27 pm
Could you please clearly describe how do you solved the problem?
From this:
Quote from: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 05:08:24 pm
Hi friends I have started to include this KTM Moto 3 in gp bikes, but I get it all wrong and do not know why. I think and put everything as it should be the wheels on axles 0 0 0. I tried putting the chassis axis 0 but I lower it even more. : (

(http://imageshack.com/a/img850/6229/xdlj.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img716/3111/tvi5.jpg)

to that:
Quote from: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 06:43:25 pm
Finally!! I have started to fight with 3dmax and eventually we became friends in this export to gp bikes ... hahaha. What I miss in the end is going slowly moving objects in 3d max to look good in Gp bikes. Thanks for the help now will try to put the string in the right place and will continue with the physical, finish the skin and the sound is done :).

(http://imageshack.com/a/img845/2149/wihz.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img35/3741/v0hk.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img32/5909/5xh7.jpg)


Would help others (including myself ...3d is totally new for me)!!  ;D
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Gzehoo on February 06, 2014, 07:06:41 pm
Wow, I can't wait to see KTM RC250GP in GP Bikes.

BTW. Will be there a possibility to painting wheels?
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 07:11:56 pm
jajaja It's simple men, I will export all of 3dmax and within gpbikes it looked all wrong the only solution I saw was to go slowly moving every object in 3dmax until it looked good in the game ... Excuse my English I'm Spanish. I hope to have it finished as soon as possible at least take a beta for the wise can tell me mistakes and correct them.
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Docfumi on February 06, 2014, 07:29:19 pm
That´s looking really good Dani, it will be nice to roll a Moto3 Bike. Good Luck with the convert.  ;)
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: RBp on February 06, 2014, 08:13:53 pm
Quote from: Hawk_UK on February 06, 2014, 05:59:15 pm
Quote from: RBp on February 06, 2014, 05:18:00 pm
0.0.0 get's the model to show on screen you need to postion each item separate by moving it alittle in 3d max.

Hi RBp

As I understood it. The x0 y0 z0 is the reference point GP Bikes uses to position each part(Chasis/wheels/fsusp/rsusp, etc, etc) to it's correct position for rendering?

When you say you need to also move each item a little in 3ds max....   Well how much is a little move to get things right?

Let me list the procedure as I understand it:

  • In 3DS Max, separate each element required(Chasis/wheels/fsusp/rsusp, etc, etc).

  • Zero the transformations(x0 y0 z0) for those elements.

  • Export those elements to a newly created and named bike folder for use in GP Bikes(obviously the folder contains all the other required files too).



I'm still creating my bike model so I have not got to this stage yet, but this is how I understood the model intergration procedure for when I arrive at that situation. Have I got this procedure correct?


I really don't know myself, just did some EDF export's to see what happened. I think nearly every model will need moving off center in 3dmax in order for it to be place correct in gpbikes by the looks of it. trail an error on placement of parts due to different size bikes would be my guess.
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 08:21:18 pm
The truth is quite rare ... but the end is well good!

Here new skin:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img163/3897/3wet.jpg)
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 09:00:58 pm
Do anyone know good physical engine? attached data sheet for if anyone knows.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/moto3-technical-regulations/

Engine: Single cylinder, liquid cooled / 4-stroke / DOHC
Displacement / Bore x Stroke: 249.5 ccm / 81 x 48.5 mm
Performance: min. 37 kW at 13.000 rpm
Engine speed: max. 13,500 rpm
Front Suspension: WP / DM 45 mm, RCMA3548
Rear Suspension: WP / adjust. length, hydraulic preload
Brakes front/rear: Brembo Radial caliper, 290 / 190 mm single disc
Rims front/rear: OZ Forged Aluminum 2.5 x 17 / 3.5 x 17
Tires front/rear: Dunlop 95/70-17 / 115/70-17
Silencer: Akrapovic Full Titanium System (max. 108 dB)
Frame: Tubular steel with adjust. headstock and swing arm pivot
Dry weight/tank capacity: approx. 83 kg / approx. 11 liters
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: neoraptor on February 06, 2014, 09:10:17 pm
Take a look here : http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=674.msg6442#msg6442
I posted a dyno from an IDM Moto3. It is a bit underpowered compare to the one from GP, but it is a good basis ;)
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 09:16:37 pm
hey thanks!!! but what is not is how to spend it to gp bikes ...: (
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: neoraptor on February 06, 2014, 09:20:07 pm
Everything you need is here : http://gpbikes-mods.wikia.com/wiki/Motor

Knowing Torque = Power/RPM, you can build the torque curve and use it to build your motor ;)
After, you can take care of the rest (explore a bit the wiki).
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 09:26:57 pm
ok thanks men i can try.. jajja
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: C21 on February 06, 2014, 09:38:40 pm
Important is to set the brake torque curve correctly!
feel free to ask if you struggle with the engine  ;)

As far as i can see from the pics the rider needs repositioning  ;)
Can´t wait to race a Moto3 bike....could be fun :-)
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: HornetMaX on February 06, 2014, 10:01:46 pm
Quote from: C21 on February 06, 2014, 06:53:27 pm
Could you please clearly describe how do you solved the problem?

My understanding is that the positioning of the 3d elements is done by the .geom file.
If you've made a new 3d model and want to do it's real physics, then you should modify the .geom file with the real measures of the bike; if the 3d model is correct the parts should connect at the right places.

If on the other hand you want to do a new 3d model on an existing physics, then you don't want to edit the .geom, so you have to position the individual parts during the export (chassis, steering, lower front, swingarm) in a way that they connect correctly in GPB. This is what he has done I think.

MaX.
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Alone on February 06, 2014, 10:13:09 pm
great Dani!

Max, silly question: if you take the data from the 3d model, can you do the .geom from that? and it will change some behavior of the bike?
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 06, 2014, 10:19:10 pm
If max, that's what I've done because I have no idea how the geom works .. Slowly is the first time that I export to gpbikes

Thanks Alone!!!!
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: HornetMaX on February 06, 2014, 10:37:07 pm
Quote from: Alone on February 06, 2014, 10:13:09 pm
Max, silly question: if you take the data from the 3d model, can you do the .geom from that? and it will change some behavior of the bike?

Ideally, creating a bike from scratch should go this way:
In that case you have agreement between the numbers in the .geom and the numbers in the 3d file.
For example: with the front and rear suspension fully extended, you can compute the bike's wheelbase from the .geom or you can measure it in 3ds and you should get the same value.

Of course it's important to have the same suspension "status" in both the 3ds file and the .geom computations when you do this, otherwise the numbers will be different.

Another possible way could be: you create the 3d model as good as you can, then you use the 3d model to "deduce" the .geom.


@Alone: when you did the R6, did you "stretch" it in 3ds to fit the Varese geometry (i.e. to make it look correct in GPB) ?

But for all this questions I guess the real guru is _oDi_: they have done the zip (scooter) with his own 3d model and his own .geom and it seems to be almost perfect in terms of agreement between the 3d model and the .geom. As I have never played with 3ds, I may be missing something.

MaX.

P.S.
Yes, changing the .geom file will alter the bike's behavior.
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Alone on February 06, 2014, 10:41:31 pm
Yes, I strongly "stretch" the model to fit the Varese, the same as I did with the moto2 bikes :/
Thx for the reply.

Reserching... :D
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: HornetMaX on February 06, 2014, 10:45:14 pm
Quote from: Alone on February 06, 2014, 10:41:31 pm
Yes, I strongly "stretch" the model to fit the Varese, the same as I did with the moto2 bikes :/

At the time that was your only option, as you were obliged to use the varese physics (or the 990 physics, same issue).

Today you could take your original "unstretched" 3d model, but then you'd need to change the .geom accordingly.
You may want to coordinate that with neoraptor: he knows plenty on the .geom file so ...

MaX.
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: C21 on February 07, 2014, 01:51:33 am
QuoteYes, I strongly "stretch" the model to fit the Varese, the same as I did with the moto2 bikes :/

My googles don´t lie.... ;D
I thought that every time i looked at the bike.
Thanks for clarifiying that.
I can understand your action but that should not be done this way....
Don´t ask me how...i´m totally new in 3dsmax and modding  ;D
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 08, 2014, 01:18:49 pm
Hi I have started the engine but do not quite understand the wiki which really are the values​​? here for example?

point0 = 1.88, 3.6502850326
               RPS  ,   NM/hp/kw ...?
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: HornetMaX on February 08, 2014, 01:32:05 pm
Quote from: Dani_s13 on February 08, 2014, 01:18:49 pm
Hi I have started the engine but do not quite understand the wiki which really are the values​​? here for example?

point0 = 1.88, 3.6502850326
               RPS  ,   NM/hp/kw ...?

The curves are torque ones, hence in Nm at a specific RPS point.

To get the power, as explained in the wiki:
> Power (kW) = NM * RPM * 2 * PI  / 60000

> Power (PS or HP or Cv) = Power (kW) / 0.73549875


So you do:  Power in HP = (Torque in Nm * RPS * 2 * PI  / 1000) / 0.73549875, where you take RPS and Torque (in Nm) from the engine map. Invert the formula to get the torque from the Power.

MaX.
Title: Re: Moto 3 KTM
Post by: Dani_s13 on February 09, 2014, 10:27:30 pm
Thanks Friend!!!!   ;D ;D