Can you please supply a "File Encryption Tool" for genuine Modders please Piboso?
I know I've asked for this before, but I believe that if you want to attract genuine serious modders, that is modders who will build mods from scratch and not rip other peoples work-off, then you need to supply a file encryption tool to stop others from bastardising and stealing their work, some of which could be work that has intellectual property rights that doesn't allow certain files(physics, tyres), textures, etc, etc, to be used or altered by anyone else except the original author of the MOD concerned. Thank you. ;)
+1
+1
The encrypted file tools tell me piboso that its ready to release now! Im waiting for release my mods
+1
A lot of the new bikes mod released in the last days have datas copy\paste from the WorldSBK 17\18 by IMT (obviously I only checked bikes that I worked on too) No problem for me about this, although with no credits at the team in some cases, but my question is; with this tool the people will be able to hide this very easily?
Imo the answer is:
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-10-2018/OXbjjS.gif)
Hi Hawk. On the KRP side of things, we have been thinking about this for quite some time. We were more interested in being able to secure content once its released - by locking a GUID to a mod that has been purchased. That way people couldn't steal paid content. That being said, your idea is excellent as well. Hopefully we will have a better modding community because of the encryption tool!
Quote from: Corrie on February 22, 2020, 04:04:24 PMHi Hawk. On the KRP side of things, we have been thinking about this for quite some time. We were more interested in being able to secure content once its released - by locking a GUID to a mod that has been purchased. That way people couldn't steal paid content. That Beijing said, your idea is excellent as well. Hopefully we will have a better modding community because of the encryption tool!
How?
With this tool i see just this:
Stp 1 Copy\paste stuff from mods released before this tool.
Stp 2 Use the Encryption tool.
Stp 3 Take all credits!
It is a whore, that all your work for days, weeks or months ... stolen by some children who take your 3d on one side, your physics on the other and tido without asking permission and then say .. wuala !!! mod ##### 2020 by ???? (WTF) and the time it has taken one to learn to do everything from scratch where it is
We need that tool!
Quote from: javiliyors on February 22, 2020, 05:30:29 PMIt is a whore, that all your work for days, weeks or months ... stolen by some children who take your 3d on one side, your physics on the other and tido without asking permission and then say .. wuala !!! mod ##### 2020 by ???? (WTF) and the time it has taken one to learn to do everything from scratch where it is
We need that tool!
But is too late... we have phisics files for any bikes (50, 125, 250, 500, 750, Motogp, SBK...)
This tool would have been helpful... 10 years ago! :)
If this tool will be released tomorrow by Piboso, the same children will copy all your lines from geom or cfg of a your bike released before, and put these data in a new mod with all files encrypted.
Quote from: Blackheart on February 22, 2020, 06:04:19 PMQuote from: javiliyors on February 22, 2020, 05:30:29 PMIt is a whore, that all your work for days, weeks or months ... stolen by some children who take your 3d on one side, your physics on the other and tido without asking permission and then say .. wuala !!! mod ##### 2020 by ???? (WTF) and the time it has taken one to learn to do everything from scratch where it is
We need that tool!
But is too late... we have phisics files for any bikes (50, 125, 250, 500, 750, Motogp, SBK...)
This tool would have been helpful... 10 years ago! :)
If this tool will be released tomorrow by Piboso, the same children will copy all your lines from geom or cfg of a your bike released before, and put these data in a new mod with all files encrypted.
Yes, but at least if we have it now, all the new things we take out cannot be modified.
The geoms could be made incompatible...
Quote from: matty0l215 on February 22, 2020, 06:30:17 PMThe geoms could be made incompatible...
That may be one avenue to look into Matty.
Quote from: Corrie on February 22, 2020, 04:04:24 PMHi Hawk. On the KRP side of things, we have been thinking about this for quite some time. We were more interested in being able to secure content once its released - by locking a GUID to a mod that has been purchased. That way people couldn't steal paid content. That being said, your idea is excellent as well. Hopefully we will have a better modding community because of the encryption tool!
Absolutely agree with you Corrie, great idea mate! ;)
@Blackheart: Corrie was talking about protecting new mods not old mods mate. ;)
I'm sure Piboso also knows ways and means to make sure ripped material isn't used in his projects by unscrupulous modders if truth be known?
But one thing for sure is that Piboso's projects won't attract the best modders without a way and means to protect their work, or protection for the IP of work that the modder has permissions to use in their mods.
every (half-decent) mod has some copied elements atm.
this would not attract anyone because GPB is simple too niche it would just kill the game for good.
Quote from: Vini on February 27, 2020, 07:50:46 PMevery (half-decent) mod has some copied elements atm.
this would not attract anyone because GPB is simple too niche it would just kill the game for good.
This is also true ^^
Quote from: Vini on February 27, 2020, 07:50:46 PMevery (half-decent) mod has some copied elements atm.
this would not attract anyone because GPB is simple too niche it would just kill the game for good.
I don't think that's the case, the unencrypted mods are still there and people will continue to use them to copy things (unfortunately) but if you know how to make mods, and with the help of the modders you can make your mod. and do not take even the 3D of other mods without permission, just because you want to revive an old mod, and even credit the merits.
Would this mean that we can not make skins as no access to pnt files?
DD
No. The paints would be done the same way as they are now. You have the bike.pkz file and then a folder by the same name with a folder inside that called paints.
I guessed that but that means the modder needs to supply a pnt file outside of the pkz file or not?
I dont know how to make a pnt file from scratch
DD
Modders should be providing template files for all users.
Creation of .pnt files only needs the names to match as they are just another container file like the .plz files.
BUT........each model has a certain layout for the psd or tga to make a skin and then you can convert to pnt, unfortunately there are many mods now that dont have any pnt files in paint folder so have to wait for one to make your own skin.
If encryption happens we will NEED to make sure a pnt file and not just templates is provide as people like me need tga to work with not psd.
Just pointing out it is very important mods will be released with at least one pnt file to ensure all can make a skin
Thanks for the answers matty
DD
I do not believe the reason why there isn't more modders is the fact that the mods are not encrypted.
I wouldn't see a problem to this if there was full documentation as to how to create a decent mod I would be all for that. But being the fact that people learn to mod also by what other people have made I don't see how this can benefit the community.
I am not a modder, but I can see how this can monopolize mod creating to just a few modders.
I am not for this idea. Unless there is a comprehensive guide from Piboso. Otherwise say goodbye to what is left of this community if mods get encrypted.
Quote from: Tosteetos on February 28, 2020, 10:57:07 PMI do not believe the reason why there isn't more modders is the fact that the mods are not encrypted.
I wouldn't see a problem to this if there was full documentation as to how to create a decent mod I would be all for that. But being the fact that people learn to mod also by what other people have made I don't see how this can benefit the community.
I am not a modder, but I can see how this can monopolize mod creating to just a few modders.
I am not for this idea. Unless there is a comprehensive guide from Piboso. Otherwise say goodbye to what is left of this community if mods get encrypted.
There is enough documentation to create mod, and yet there are people who are making mods and that have relied on other mods to create their own, in which I am included. I would not mind sharing documentation with other modders so that they create their mods, but use 3ds or other things, when all the work is yours, well fuck a lot. when you learn to do this it hurts to have your work stolen so that other people take the merits
If I may weigh in my 2 cents here...
After trying to mod a bike for the first time, I can say that there isn't enough documentation from piboso to make a mod. Simple and clear.
I have been relying on other bikes, the community, and community made resources to achieve what I've achieved in modding, which is very little.
Now if bikes get encrypted, you take away a valuable source of learning for new modders, and risk going back 10 years to when the bikes were the same just with altered edfs and sounds, or you risk preventing new modders starting entirely.
Ideally piboso would release official, full documentation on making a basic bike and track and putting them into the game. One that people can follow along with and use to understand the full process, before adapting the methods and adding their own spin on them for content etc.
Once that is done, only THEN do I believe that encryption of modders files can be considered.
As for me the survival and growth of GP Bikes is more important than someone using a file I made. Sure it's underhanded and not very nice but GP Bikes is getting competition in the Motorcycle Sim market, and it isn't getting any younger, so it needs all the help it can get.
I do also believe there is an issue with this fundamentally, as quite a lot of new mods use 3d models from milestones games, mine included. For that reason encrypting a bike so the files can't be stolen, and used without permission, when infact files from that very bike are stolen and used without permission anyway, I think that's not quite right. If it's got stolen files in it (not scratch built model and physics etc) then it shouldn't be encrypted is my stance. And yes, this also goes for 'my' mods as well.
But how does piboso police this? He simply can't. So I expect that there won't be any encryption, unless piboso trusts the modder and the source files.
But step 1 would be to release proper documentation and easy to follow tutorials on how to make tracks and bikes and get them into gp bikes. Then newer modders have the ability to come to a resource that's always available, and is easy to use.
Every other moddable sim has huge support from modders in this regard, and I think this is the part that prevents larger mod teams or more modders coming to go bikes.
That and the mod tools are far from perfect.
Come on pib it's 2020 why are the 3ds plugins for a 10 year old program
+1
I agree, but if we all respected our work between modders this would not happen or we would have to encrypt anything
There is no reason an example non-encrypted MODBike cannot be used to help those that wish to start modding, that would solve arguments that people want non-encrypted bike files to be able to learn modding. Simple solution really guys..... ::)
Piboso could easily police this if he wanted to the same way "Eagle Dynamics" police DCS World. Modders have to be registered with Eagle Dynamics; to do that you have to prove you have the ability to create mods to their standards(Not hard to do), only then will you become a registered supplier of mods for DCS World and only those modders can get a mod released for DCS World. Modding doesn't have to be a free for all. Free for all just gets you loads of amateur would-be mods that are well below standard quality which in itself hurts the main product.
Then on top of that is the problem that many pro-quality mods could very well want to use material that has intellectual property rights and conditions for using them in the modders work which would prevent using those files if they were not encrypted.
So guys, it's a case of do we want mods that are very good(pro) standard, or do we want to continue to have mods that are a free for all, which as we've seen, attracts unscrupulous modders who tend to steal the hard work of others?
All I'm saying is that an encryption tool should be made available for modders who feel they need it for their work so it's not stolen or bastardised in the future....
If Piboso would like to continue allowing open modding then I'm fine with that too, but just provide an encryption tool for those modders that want to have use of it, that's all I'm saying here really guys! ;) 8)
@DD: No need to worry about the paint files mate..... The modder can create a paint-kit in whatever format you require.
Just a query DD: Why do you have to have the paint file format in .TGA? Surely .PSD layered files are so much better and easier to paint with, and you don't have to have PS to use them, there is GIMP(the Photoshop clone) that can use .PSD files and it's free as I'm sure you know? :)
Quote from: Hawk on February 29, 2020, 12:04:02 PMThere is no reason an example non-encrypted MODBike cannot be used to help those that wish to start modding, that would solve arguments that people want non-encrypted bike files to be able to learn modding. Simple solution really guys..... ::)
Piboso could easily police this if he wanted to the same way "Eagle Dynamics" police DCS World. Modders have to be registered with Eagle Dynamics; to do that you have to prove you have the ability to create mods to their standards(Not hard to do), only then will you become a registered supplier of mods for DCS World and only those modders can get a mod released for DCS World. Modding doesn't have to be a free for all. Free for all just gets you loads of amateur would-be mods that are well below standard quality which in itself hurts the main product.
Then on top of that is the problem that many pro-quality mods could very well want to use material that has intellectual property rights and conditions for using them in the modders work which would prevent using those files if they were not encrypted.
So guys, it's a case of do we want mods that are very good(pro) standard, or do we want to continue to have mods that are a free for all, which as we've seen, attracts unscrupulous modders who tend to steal the hard work of others?
All I'm saying is that an encryption tool should be made available for modders who feel they need it for their work so it's not stolen or bastardised in the future....
If Piboso would like to continue allowing open modding then I'm fine with that too, but just provide an encryption tool for those modders that want to have use of it, that's all I'm saying here really guys! ;) 8)
@DD: No need to worry about the paint files mate..... The modder can create a paint-kit in whatever format you require.
Just a query DD: Why do you have to have the paint file format in .TGA? Surely .PSD layered files are so much better and easier to paint with, and you don't have to have PS to use them, there is GIMP(the Photoshop clone) that can use .PSD files and it's free as I'm sure you know? :)
+1000
I created my first mod also helped a lot by taking as reference other great mods. Never did copy and paste
Quote from: VSMaster on February 29, 2020, 05:44:22 PMI created my first mod also helped a lot by taking as reference other great mods. Never did copy and paste
Well there we go..... A good example non-encrypted version for learning to mod would solve that solution and therefore no barrier for an encryption tool for those that want to use it..... Both sides of the debate happy now...... So, how's about an encryption tool Piboso? ;D ;)
Quote from: Hawk on February 29, 2020, 06:32:18 PMQuote from: VSMaster on February 29, 2020, 05:44:22 PMI created my first mod also helped a lot by taking as reference other great mods. Never did copy and paste
Well there we go..... A good example non-encrypted version for learning to mod would solve that solution and therefore no barrier for an encryption tool for those that want to use it..... Both sides of the debate happy now...... So, how's about an encryption tool Piboso? ;D ;)
It's also a milestone ripped model ;) like most
Hawk, I never got round to working with psd files and photoshop so use only coreldraw and tga as that is what the pnt requires. I have too much to do so time is rare lol
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on February 29, 2020, 06:44:26 PMHawk, I never got round to working with psd files and photoshop so use only coreldraw and tga as that is what the pnt requires. I have too much to do so time is rare lol
DD
I was just curious DD, that's all mate. ;) 8)
If you can find the time to give it a go sometime in the future you really should try working with the .psd layered file for painting skins. They are just so easy and quick to work with; all the different parts in the paint are separated into the different layers(including the occlusion-lighting & shadows) ready to paint straight away and then all you have to do is save the result of all the layers together as a single .tga file for PNT. Done sorted. ;D ;)
I know Hawk, but after Events House trying to steal and take credit for my 2020 Sit On system and screwing me over I am so busy and stressed it wont happen this year lol.
One day when Im older lol
Just need a pnt to start with for now
DD
Just personal opinion here.
I totally agree that copying without crediting is bad practice, but I still don't get what the authors of encrypted mods would gain from that.
I mean: modder B rips from modder A. What does modder A stand to lose from that ?
If mods were sold for real money then OK something should be done (note this would go much further than simple encryption) but as this is not the case today, what's the problem for modder A ? Where's the damage for him or for the community ?
I have the impression that the whole discussion boils down to: "if modder B rips from modder A without crediting, modder A gets angry for ePeen reasons" (translated: because modder B is somehow claiming to be as good or better than modder A). I think it's futile: with unencrypted mods, anynbody can see who has ripped from who. Just post on the fourm something like "Hi modder B, this is modder A. Thanks for ripping our mod without permission and without crediting us.". Just shame them.
Quote from: HornetMaX on March 01, 2020, 11:38:06 AMJust personal opinion here.
I totally agree that copying without crediting is bad practice, but I still don't get what the authors of encrypted mods would gain from that.
I mean: modder B rips from modder A. What does modder A stand to lose from that ?
If mods were sold for real money then OK something should be done (note this would go much further than simple encryption) but as this is not the case today, what's the problem for modder A ? Where's the damage for him or for the community ?
I have the impression that the whole discussion boils down to: "if modder B rips from modder A without crediting, modder A gets angry for ePeen reasons" (translated: because modder B is somehow claiming to be as good or better than modder A). I think it's futile: with unencrypted mods, anynbody can see who has ripped from who. Just post on the fourm something like "Hi modder B, this is modder A. Thanks for ripping our mod without permission and without crediting us.". Just shame them.
I feel your missing the point Max......
If your amateur modder wants to continue to mod without encryption then fine, let them if Piboso wants to continue to allow that, it's fine. BUT.... I personally think that if you want to have the more professional modders come-in and donate work to Piboso's projects then Piboso needs to supply an Encryption tool for, shall we say, the more professionally minded "Modders" who put in hundreds of hours of work on their projects often out of shear passion alone to provide products for these games/sims. Plus the fact that if your of a professional mind then you have to protect the IP of any material used from being ripped off by those unscrupulous people who are inclined to do so.......
The simple fact is that when modders rip-off the work of others then it gives all modders a bad reputation, and indeed it also gives the developer of the product they are modding for a bad reputation too.... At least if the dev supplies an encryption tool they are kind of mitigating that responsibility soley onto the modders.
Personally if I was Piboso I would operate the modding the same as Eagle Dynamics do for DCS World..... There is nothing worse for a game than to have free for all modding where you always get so many crap mods for the game it actually starts to hurt the main products image/reputation and subsequent sales too.
So no.... If your of the more "Pro" minded modder then it's not got anything to do with ego's and the attitude your putting forward as the reason we want an encryption tool.... It's about being and acting in a professional manner and pro-promoting that as the way to be. It really should be something that all developers who promote modding should adhere to in an attempt to not only stop unscrupulous modding practices but to make those bad practices a scourge on the modding community. While people/devs continue to support the free for all model of modding then modding will always be a contentious issue, especially for those that want to see modding develop into a genuinely respected supplement to developers base products..... Good modders can in actual fact greatly increase sales of a devs base product if the dev operates the modding in a professional manner.... I'd say at this time, Piboso is "Old School" and is therefore not promoting a professional modding community but rather promoting an unscrupulous modding community..... People eventually reap what they sow, right? ;)
Just my opinion guys... ;)
Quote from: Hawk on March 02, 2020, 12:22:01 AMQuote from: HornetMaX on March 01, 2020, 11:38:06 AMJust personal opinion here.
I totally agree that copying without crediting is bad practice, but I still don't get what the authors of encrypted mods would gain from that.
I mean: modder B rips from modder A. What does modder A stand to lose from that ?
If mods were sold for real money then OK something should be done (note this would go much further than simple encryption) but as this is not the case today, what's the problem for modder A ? Where's the damage for him or for the community ?
I have the impression that the whole discussion boils down to: "if modder B rips from modder A without crediting, modder A gets angry for ePeen reasons" (translated: because modder B is somehow claiming to be as good or better than modder A). I think it's futile: with unencrypted mods, anynbody can see who has ripped from who. Just post on the fourm something like "Hi modder B, this is modder A. Thanks for ripping our mod without permission and without crediting us.". Just shame them.
I feel your missing the point Max......
If your amateur modder wants to continue to mod without encryption then fine, let them if Piboso wants to continue to allow that, it's fine. BUT.... I personally think that if you want to have the more professional modders come-in and donate work to Piboso's projects then Piboso needs to supply an Encryption tool for, shall we say, the more professionally minded "Modders" who put in hundreds of hours of work on their projects often out of shear passion alone to provide products for these games/sims. Plus the fact that if your of a professional mind then you have to protect the IP of any material used from being ripped off by those unscrupulous people who are inclined to do so.......
The simple fact is that when modders rip-off the work of others then it gives all modders a bad reputation, and indeed it also gives the developer of the product they are modding for a bad reputation too.... At least if the dev supplies an encryption tool they are kind of mitigating that responsibility soley onto the modders.
Personally if I was Piboso I would operate the modding the same as Eagle Dynamics do for DCS World..... There is nothing worse for a game than to have free for all modding where you always get so many crap mods for the game it actually starts to hurt the main products image/reputation and subsequent sales too.
So no.... If your of the more "Pro" minded modder then it's not got anything to do with ego's and the attitude your putting forward as the reason we want an encryption tool.... It's about being and acting in a professional manner and pro-promoting that as the way to be. It really should be something that all developers who promote modding should adhere to in an attempt to not only stop unscrupulous modding practices but to make those bad practices a scourge on the modding community. While people/devs continue to support the free for all model of modding then modding will always be a contentious issue, especially for those that want to see modding develop into a genuinely respected supplement to developers base products..... Good modders can in actual fact greatly increase sales of a devs base product if the dev operates the modding in a professional manner.... I'd say at this time, Piboso is "Old School" and is therefore not promoting a professional modding community but rather promoting an unscrupulous modding community..... People eventually reap what they sow, right? ;)
Just my opinion guys... ;)
I think same +1
to add another point, it is quite difficult to give good feedback when you have no idea what was changed in the bike.
if you are going purely by feel then there will be tons of misunderstandings between modders and players/testers.
Quote from: Vini on March 02, 2020, 04:40:57 PMto add another point, it is quite difficult to give good feedback when you have no idea what was changed in the bike.
if you are going purely by feel then there will be tons of misunderstandings between modders and players/testers.
If you were a rider in real life, how would you give information to your engineers? Telling him that since the data is encrypted you cannot tell him that it has to change ... or will you transmit it for sensations?
Quote from: Vini on March 02, 2020, 04:40:57 PMto add another point, it is quite difficult to give good feedback when you have no idea what was changed in the bike.
if you are going purely by feel then there will be tons of misunderstandings between modders and players/testers.
THIS IS PERHAPS THE KEY POINT IN THE ENTIRE THREAD LOL ^^
Quote from: javiliyors on March 02, 2020, 05:32:06 PMIf you were a rider in real life, how would you give information to your engineers? Telling him that since the data is encrypted you cannot tell him that it has to change ... or will you transmit it for sensations?
You'd give feedback based off feeling, and then look at the data to confirm those feelings, or understand why the bike is doing what its doing. Either way you look at data.
The other issue with saying you should be giving mod feedback on feeling, is that this is GP Bikes... The only feelings 90% of us get are from a 3rd party plugin and involve a little controller vibrating. Not entirely conclusive enough if you ask me.
The guys on a steering wheel have a little more advantage, but even so, they don't get anywhere near enough feedback from the sim to be able to give anywhere close to accurate diagnostics.
The way to stop this would be to have a dedicated private testing group who you trust to use the non-encrypted mod, and who have a decent understanding of a motorcycles behaviour. Then encrypt it on a public release, if this is the way GPB is going.
Quote from: Vini on March 02, 2020, 04:40:57 PMto add another point, it is quite difficult to give good feedback when you have no idea what was changed in the bike.
if you are going purely by feel then there will be tons of misunderstandings between modders and players/testers.
It's the bikeMOD devs responsibility to list any changes in the change-log, You don't need an un-encrypted file to know what's changed, not that 99% of players would understand what any of the changes did to the bikeMODS handling or reactions anyway..... To put it kindly, I feel these kind of reactions are just excuses to not have an encryption tool.
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on March 02, 2020, 11:37:18 PMQuote from: Vini on March 02, 2020, 04:40:57 PMto add another point, it is quite difficult to give good feedback when you have no idea what was changed in the bike.
if you are going purely by feel then there will be tons of misunderstandings between modders and players/testers.
THIS IS PERHAPS THE KEY POINT IN THE ENTIRE THREAD LOL ^^
Quote from: javiliyors on March 02, 2020, 05:32:06 PMIf you were a rider in real life, how would you give information to your engineers? Telling him that since the data is encrypted you cannot tell him that it has to change ... or will you transmit it for sensations?
You'd give feedback based off feeling, and then look at the data to confirm those feelings, or understand why the bike is doing what its doing. Either way you look at data.
The other issue with saying you should be giving mod feedback on feeling, is that this is GP Bikes... The only feelings 90% of us get are from a 3rd party plugin and involve a little controller vibrating. Not entirely conclusive enough if you ask me.
The guys on a steering wheel have a little more advantage, but even so, they don't get anywhere near enough feedback from the sim to be able to give anywhere close to accurate diagnostics.
The way to stop this would be to have a dedicated private testing group who you trust to use the non-encrypted mod, and who have a decent understanding of a motorcycles behaviour. Then encrypt it on a public release, if this is the way GPB is going.
I agree with Javi...... A rider tests a bike with changes and reports back how it is feeling and reacting to the devs, players don't need to know exactly what has been changed, that's the bikeMOD devs department, besides as I've stated above, 99% of players wouldn't have a clue what any changes mean anyway. So I just don't understand these excuses that keep cropping up against an encryption tool..... Just bordering on the lame excuse in my book considering
we're not advocating that all modders
must encrypt the files but only those that wish to; I just don't get the adversity to it all here? An encryption tool would provide solution to either side of the debate surely?
But I'm sure the modders who are anti-encryption will continue to provide you all with un-encrypted mods for people to study any changes if that's what some people want here? But testers are testers, they don't really need to know what's changed, they just need to report back how the bike is feeling & handling, that's all. If the testers were good at interpreting the physics data changes needed to get the bike handling properly then the devs would have them in the dev-team already, right. :)
If this anti-encryption attitude is simply a fear of not being able to learn how to mod a bike cause a lot of the files will be locked-off then don't be daft, you all know very well that this modding community likes to help newcomers to modding when we can...... So stop being drama queens! Anyone would think you were anti-Brexit/Pro EU supporters! Lol! :o ;D ;D
no modder lists every single thing he changed. it's usually only the things he deems significant and that is the exact situation where it's useful for the testers to be able to look in the bike cfg because some seemingly insignifcant adjustment might be causing unexpected problems.
Quote from: Hawk on March 03, 2020, 11:45:56 AMIf this anti-encryption attitude is simply a fear of not being able to learn how to mod a bike cause a lot of the files will be locked-off then don't be daft, you all know very well that this modding community likes to help newcomers to modding when we can...... So stop being drama queens! Anyone would think you were anti-Brexit/Pro EU supporters! Lol! :o ;D ;D
Who really want this tool?
Answer; Just who uses random data for the bikes and who uses copy\paste data from other mods. Very simple.
Quote from: Blackheart on March 03, 2020, 01:31:07 PMQuote from: Hawk on March 03, 2020, 11:45:56 AMIf this anti-encryption attitude is simply a fear of not being able to learn how to mod a bike cause a lot of the files will be locked-off then don't be daft, you all know very well that this modding community likes to help newcomers to modding when we can...... So stop being drama queens! Anyone would think you were anti-Brexit/Pro EU supporters! Lol! :o ;D ;D
Who really want this tool?
Answer; Just who uses random data for the bikes and who uses copy\paste data from other mods. Very simple.
Your first question I've already explained many times in this thread....
Your second part highlighted above, I really haven't got a clue what your talking about there mate. It seems to makes no sense or has no apparent relevance to what we're talking about here?
LoL
I tried to explain it to you, but you know nothing about bike modding, so it makes no sense to continue the discussion. Bye.
Quote from: Blackheart on March 04, 2020, 09:56:42 AMLoL
I tried to explain it to you, but you know nothing about bike modding, so it makes no sense to continue the discussion. Bye.
LOLS!!!
As you well know Blackheart, The "Caws Team" have been around modding for GPBikes long before you appeared here in the GPBike community. As far as I am aware, we are currently the oldest modding team in the community..... Your just showing your total ignorance..... In fact it was the CAWS Team that often used to help you out when you were first starting to mod bikes for GPbikes.... Oh how your attitude has changed since then.
But what on earth has your post above got to do with bike modding and just what is it you say it is trying to explain..... Again your talking nonsense mate.
Quote from: Hawk on March 02, 2020, 12:22:01 AMQuote from: HornetMaX on March 01, 2020, 11:38:06 AMJust personal opinion here.
I totally agree that copying without crediting is bad practice, but I still don't get what the authors of encrypted mods would gain from that.
I mean: modder B rips from modder A. What does modder A stand to lose from that ?
If mods were sold for real money then OK something should be done (note this would go much further than simple encryption) but as this is not the case today, what's the problem for modder A ? Where's the damage for him or for the community ?
I have the impression that the whole discussion boils down to: "if modder B rips from modder A without crediting, modder A gets angry for ePeen reasons" (translated: because modder B is somehow claiming to be as good or better than modder A). I think it's futile: with unencrypted mods, anynbody can see who has ripped from who. Just post on the fourm something like "Hi modder B, this is modder A. Thanks for ripping our mod without permission and without crediting us.". Just shame them.
I feel your missing the point Max......
<very long non-reply cut>
And I feel you've missed the question, let me try to ask it again:
"I totally agree that copying without crediting is bad practice, but I still don't get what the authors of encrypted mods would gain from that.
I mean: modder B rips from modder A. What does modder A stand to lose from that ?"If you have no clear answer to that, then I have no idea what we're talking about except modders' ego (not saying it's your/your team case in particular).
Quote from: HornetMaX on March 04, 2020, 12:56:07 PMAnd I feel you've missed the question, let me try to ask it again:
"I totally agree that copying without crediting is bad practice, but I still don't get what the authors of encrypted mods would gain from that.
I mean: modder B rips from modder A. What does modder A stand to lose from that ?"
If you have no clear answer to that, then I have no idea what we're talking about except modders' ego (not saying it's your/your team case in particular).
Max. You seem to be missing a basic overall situation here: No one is saying that all mods HAVE to be encrypted.
If the tool was made available, then those that wish to encrypt their work can do so, but at the same time those that don't wish to encrypt their work can do that too, so why bring up issues that have no relevance to Piboso releasing his encryption tool? What's the issue here?
Seems to me that the only ones who don't like the idea of MOD work being encrypted by those the wish to do so are the ones who like the idea of being able to steal others work & information?
On top of that, there is the very likely possibility that if there was an encryption tool available for modders work then the more professional modders would more likely provide their work happily to the GPBike community..... It's a win win situation, so I just cannot understand the objections and somewhat lame excuses being put forward for not releasing Piboso's encryption tool? What's the problem, really, apart from as I said that certain people want to be able to steal others hard work and information and take credit for it. You wouldn't like it if someone stole your work and took credit for it so why do you expect others to not give a damn? It's not about ego, it's about doing what's right and actually giving a damn about doing what's right, something that is obviously lacking in recent generations by the sound of it?
My Summed Up thoughts:
- Modding encryption would make it harder for new modders, so if this encryption tool were to be released it would have to come AFTER a complete de-crypted example bike, to allow a sort of base to follow for new modders.
Ideally this would come from Piboso Himself, but Matty seems to be fiddling with one. Not sure how far it is a long however
- An encryption tool would make it harder to steal other peoples data, and handling, but if a mod is done right, then the data is likely transferable anyway, so you'd end up with the same values, so encrypting them is pointless to that degree.... However the issue is when people don't even check.
For instance, BlackHearts BMW S1000rr in the WSBK pack shares a LOT of values in the CFG with my HP4 Race, as these are the real world values for the BMW's. We've hit such a point in the internet, and availability of resources that these values aren't even hard to come by, so for ANY modder, there is very little excuse for having un-realstic values, unless its a prototype, such as a GP Bike, or a silhouette such as a WSBK, which I'll get onto in a minute
(Off topic slightly: The WSBKS are so far removed from the Showroom bikes I consider them silhouettes rather than 'proddie' bikes (That being said, wheelbases, gear ratios, geometries etc must be the same according to the rules so the data Should be the same across all variants of that bike in the sim, regardless of author.))
- As I stated last time, I believe this 'tool' if its even a consideration, should be implemented on mods that are scratch built. For instance, as I stated earlier, a LOT of new mods, both tracks and bikes, are taken from, 'other' sources to some degree.
This itself presents a problem, as its hard to police.
Eagle Dynamics' method was presented as an option, however I don't believe this to be valid, as it for a competent modder, ripping without permission, from any source, such as alternate title or other Mod, would have no issue scratch building a mod, and then getting the encryption off piboso, and then using it on other MoDs that do not meet the standards set. And nothing could be done to stop this.
If this is the way to go, I believe the encryption would have to be done on Piboso's end. So sent the Un-Encrypted Mod to piboso and then get the encrypted mod back for public download. The issue comes in the amount of mods being made, and the fact pib seems busy enough, however this would give complete control over the content, meaning only the best scratch built mods could be encrypted, and ripped mods, in any way, would be a open for use and editing by anyone, as the modder did when the rip or copy - paste job happened. You've either got to fully do a mod, 3d model and all, for it to be encrypted, or not at all. As you can't complain when people change values on a Mod without permission where you yourself got the original content from another source without permission, and yes this includes anything I do as I'm not better than anyone and should be held to the same standards. (The only exception would be if proof could be provided to Piboso, or a trusted admin if he chooses, that permission from the original author was obtained for the rip/conversion)
- Its not a matter of being for or against this encryption, its a lot more grey than it seems, as I see a lot of comments from people wanting this who themselves use files from other sources. Why should they get to do that, and then encrypt the work as if its theirs? They shouldn't.
-
Quote from: Hawk on March 03, 2020, 11:45:56 AMI agree with Javi...... A rider tests a bike with changes and reports back how it is feeling and reacting to the devs, players don't need to know exactly what has been changed, that's the bikeMOD devs department, besides as I've stated above, 99% of players wouldn't have a clue what any changes mean anyway. So I just don't understand these excuses that keep cropping up against an encryption tool..... Just bordering on the lame excuse in my book considering we're not advocating that all modders must encrypt the files but only those that wish to; I just don't get the adversity to it all here? An encryption tool would provide solution to either side of the debate surely?
But I'm sure the modders who are anti-encryption will continue to provide you all with un-encrypted mods for people to study any changes if that's what some people want here? But testers are testers, they don't really need to know what's changed, they just need to report back how the bike is feeling & handling, that's all. If the testers were good at interpreting the physics data changes needed to get the bike handling properly then the devs would have them in the dev-team already, right. :)
If this anti-encryption attitude is simply a fear of not being able to learn how to mod a bike cause a lot of the files will be locked-off then don't be daft, you all know very well that this modding community likes to help newcomers to modding when we can...... So stop being drama queens! Anyone would think you were anti-Brexit/Pro EU supporters! Lol! :o ;D ;D
I also am not providing excuses for not having it, I'm just imploring that people consider all angles, I mean the only 2 CAWS members that I see on the GP Bikes Discord are H and Matty. (not having a go or anything, and not having a discord is not a bad thing, just means there isn't a 'full picture') Also that is where the majority of new Mods are these days, resulting in the Forums being quiet, and as a result anyone who isn't active on the Discord is at a severe disadvantage when it comes to what is actually going on. As the discord is 10x more active than the forums, by modders, racers, and developers alike, so your view becomes more skewed to ripped content when only trawling through the forums.
As for the modding community being helpful, I can 100% agree on that, being someone who has only recently attempted the Art.
Matty, Javi, TomHWK, as well as a few others have helped me get, an all be it ripped bike, into GP Bikes (Was learning the process then I can eventually learn 3D modelling))
However, while the community is good, and helpful with this, I think it is not their place to be. It is up to the developer to provide the support for his game, which, as I have found out, there is a severe lack of resources to help with, and what resources there are aren't together so it takes 10x longer to do anything. Oh, and the tools could do with an update.
Basically, PIB needs to sort out the back end support for modders, before we start getting features like this. (Not saying I don't want it, that's important to note, as I think it should be available, just there are other steps that MUST be taken before it is implemented, for the survival and growth of GP Bikes)
As for how a rider tests a bike, players don't need to know exactly what has been changed, but I wouldn't go as far as saying 99% of players wouldn't understand these changes anyway. That's just gross ignorance on your part, after all, this is supposed to be a simulation, so a basic knowledge and understanding of handling and motorcycling operation is required. So for me changelogs, could be graphical, and handling only, not necessarily back-end stuff like exact numbers and stuff.
But I urge you to not be as arrogant as to say that no one understands. Or else there is no point you being part of a debate, if you're going to write anyone off who has a valid, factual opinion. Its a very 'You're wrong and I'm right now bog off' attitude, and it is a dangerous one to have.
As for the feeling of testing a bike, that is correct, you do determine, MOST of a bike's setup and handling of rider feel, but then the data is consolidated to confirm this. (I'd say about 75% rider feel then 25% data)
Now if I had to guess, most people here are playing on a gamepad, and do not have access to the full range of feeling that a motorcycle gives, as there is no 'Seat of the Pants' for most of us, therefore, sounds, minute vibration, which is un-official third party (and very good considering), and visual. This is NOWHERE near enough to make a mod based off, so the data has to be used.
However you seem to be ignoring this point in your posts, which leads me to believe, that you're just flitting through, finding points that support your opinion, and then disregarding anything else as wrong, or as you put it,
LAME EXCUSES. That in itself is a dangerous, and arrogant thing to do, and highlights the core issues in society.
OH MY GOD, THIS CELEBRITY SAID VACCINES ARE DANGEROUS AND CAUSE AUTISM, AND ITS WHAT I BELIEVE SO ANYONE ELSE IS WRONG AND IT MUST BE TRUEThat is how it comes across to me. Look at all areas, and look at how it could be implemented in the best way, rather than just slapping something together and out the door, just because it was asked, GP Bikes has enough of that as it is. Looking at you Launch Control
Upon re-reading that it doesn't seem very summed up lol sorry :D
You got a TDLR for that. I haven't got all night to read Sun Tzu
That WAS the TLDR
and its more entertaining than sun tzu
:D
I dunno. This thread is turning into a war zone.
Here's quite a simple awnser to all this
Give modders the ability to encrypt mods. Modder and the community must then be aware and prepared for the possibility of new potential modders being put off by the lack of refrence material or being asked questions on how to mod.
Having the tool does not mean it needs to be used. I certainly wouldn't use it as I don't feel it is nesseccerry and am more than happy to call out anyone who blatantly steals content without asking first or recognising the original content creator.
Just my 2p as this isn't a difficult topic.
Aight,
tLDR
- Piboso needs to release a fully un-encrypted model and bike to help new modders before this is even considered
- Documentation needs organising by the Dev on the forum's. Like why in god's name do I have to go to a kart racing forum for information on a bike sim
- Bike Info is readily available on the internet, so there is no excuse for unrealistic bike values, and by extension, many bikes that are the same sort of thing (s1000rr and hp4 for instance) share same values. Not all values are stolen
- Encryption should require the mod sending over to PiBoSo, or a trusted admin, who then ensures there is no Ripped content, before firing an encrypted link back to the dev.
As encrypting content that isn't 100% you're own in the first place isn't right for me.
- A lot more happens on the discord than on the forums these days, due to the milestone débâcle, so neglecting to use it puts you at a disadvantage, and 'out of the loop'
- Make sure you use all of a point to back up your opinion, not just picking out little bits.
I believe that sums it up?
The main issue for me is when people would encrypt mods that contain content that isn't theirs in the first place. That is what would grind my gears, and the main thing that needs to be looked at
Agreed
From what I read, it looks like that someone in the past copied values from other mod without credit the owner. How many times did this happen? Just curious
Then maybe an encrypting tool is needed but only if there is an example bike that can be taken as reference for new modders, otherwise it will be impossible (for me). In this last period, more and more users wants to bring to the community new bikes.
[Remember 90% of the mods have ripped models from other games]
Okay, here's my final thoughts on the subject?
Basically I think I'm just banging my head against a brick wall wanting this encryption tool..... Though I really think it's as simple as those that want to use an encryption tool should have it available to use.... Those that don't want to use it, then don't use it.... SIMPLE really! No big deal surely! :o ::)
But yes I agree with most of what you've said in your major summery above Mystic, but certainly disagree with your thoughts on the usefulness of discord servers.... As far as I understand how they work, they are just a more elaborate chat facility..... So what if someone asks a question and another person answers them.... Then a month later someone comes along and wants to see that persons answer again cause he remembers it holds useful modding info that he now needs to reference again? That information is gone right? Or am I wrong? But that's how I understand these discord servers work and therefore, in my opinion, have no place in a modding team or community where useful information that needs recording in some form for future reference is a must. A forum is a much better place for this kind of thing.
As for not having an encryption tool cause of lack of information available for would-be modders..... Frankly that is where I think yourself, and others who've expressed the same excuse, are talking nonsense, and yes I still think that is well described as what can be called a "Lame" excuse, and this is not arrogance at all, it is just straight talking with a big smile of disbelief on my face at what you are saying mate! Lol! ;D ;D
Opinions are not truths or untruths, they are just a personal belief or conviction of what one is saying, no more than that but certainly not arrogance.... You can either take them or leave them, it's no big deal either way..... Have a good night guys! ;) ;D 8)
Quote from: Hawk on March 05, 2020, 12:00:52 AMBut yes I agree with most of what you've said in your major summery above Mystic, but certainly disagree with your thoughts on the usefulness of discord servers.... As far as I understand how they work, they are just a more elaborate chat facility..... So what if someone asks a question and another person answers them.... Then a month later someone comes along and wants to see that persons answer again cause he remembers it holds useful modding info that he now needs to reference again? That information is gone right? Or am I wrong? But that's how I understand these discord servers work and therefore, in my opinion, have no place in a modding team or community where useful information that needs recording in some form for future reference is a must. A forum is a much better place for this kind of thing.
Discord being an elaborate chat facility.. and what are we doing here. ;)
As for the questions there is a search button, so you can go back indefinitely to find the information you need should that be required. As well as this admin can 'pin messages' to topics, so it becomes the first message that someone sees clicking on the topic, and can always be found easily. It functions much the same way as a pinned topic here, where its In bold, a different shade of blue, and the first thing you see when clicking a board. Or whichever way round the names are but you get the point
Setup right, discord does the same job as this forum, and is much easier to navigate. Set up right.
Also, most modders are moving all their mods over to private discord servers, due to more freedom with content, as well as how easy it is to get feedback and information directly.
as well this, the entire place is more active, (there are GP bikers there who aren't even on the forum's, and championships and racing are often being organised there instead of the forum's) so even if you prefer to communicate on the forum's and via other methods, you're missing out on a vital aspect of gp bikes by not having an account. Even if you only check it once every blue moon.
Pibs also more active there as well so it's the place to hit him up if you need advice or have a question it seems :)
Quote from: Hawk on March 05, 2020, 12:00:52 AMOkay, here's my final thoughts on the subject?
Basically I think I'm just banging my head against a brick wall wanting this encryption tool..... Though I really think it's as simple as those that want to use an encryption tool should have it available to use.... Those that don't want to use it, then don't use it.... SIMPLE really! No big deal surely! :o ::)
Now you know how we feel when we're trying to explain to you why modern MotoGP is better than historical 2-smokers and all you say is 'men were men' or 'electronics are bad' or 'its killing the sport'
;)
For me it's those who take advantage, and encrypt work that wasn't 100% theirs in the first place, and how the encryption would be implemented to prevent this. It's extremely hypocritical, and could damage gp bikes more than no encryption in the first place.
As for implementing it, I do think, at least organising what modding tutorials and info we do have to one place would be necessary before it's implementation. As beings new 'modder' myself I guess, looking for more niche info is next to impossible, (very little info on stuff like shader files, and how to actually name the 3d parts and all that, it was Matty that taught me that and javi who helped with the shaders), the result is you end up forum hopping from gpb to mxb to krp and so on. Like there's a little bit of everything everywhere, but not a full system if that makes sense.
Other than that I'm impartial to its introduction. I can understand why it's wanted, I can understand why it's not, and I can see difficulties arising from it being rushed and implemented incorrectly. Hence why I think mods should have to be sent to a trusted admin for encryption, then you know the 100% scratch built models are getting the protection they deserve.
As for rushing implementations, See the 'launch control' and various mod tools for more examples of those :)
I can't speak for the GPB or WRS side of things, but I feel as if the KRP side of things has come out of control a couple times in the past. Especially with content theft on content that was paid for, we saw rampant theft of models, files, and other data. It was difficult to deal with - see this thread (post #71) (http://forum.kartracing-pro.com/index.php?topic=5569.60). You can see that one of my mods was repackaged, renamed, and blatantly stolen. Aside from other community issues within that discussion, we saw some of the worst community involvement in this - namely that the members who had stolen were not reprimanded in the slightest. This had been an issue leading into that discussion and had been a major issue.
This brings me to the encryption tool. We have been looking for an anti-theft device for our mods for the last few years because of the issues we've had with people taking our content and releasing it as their own. This has happened with tracks, engines, tires, and paints for helmets and karts. We're part of a small community and content theft is something that pushes away serious modders. We have rallied behind an encryption tool because we feel as if our mods are high quality. See this example (https://simkartmodding.freeforums.net/thread/129/portfolo-hiattdesign-helmets-sticker-kits), and browse through the forum for other posts by Cory or Ian.
The encryption tool would allow us to prevent the modifying and distribution of our content. Especially on paid projects, it's insulting that people will buy it and try to 'crack' it. I understand there are many people who don't like us asking money for our work, and I know there are many who will tell us 'thats the way it is' when it comes to content theft. I view it as an issue, and we want to make it clear that we will not stand for it.
Mystic brings up so many good points, as do many of the posters in this thread. With the exception of blackheart, I feel like people have been at least somewhat constructive. However, I can see things aren't turning for the better. Hopefully this sorts itself out, and hopefully everyone can calm down a little bit. If anything, this post aims to serve as a secondary perspective for some of you who don't know about the blatant stealing that has gone on in the past. This is why some people are so adamant about anti-theft devices.
I don't want to see this community in shambles because of egos and disagreement. At the end of the day, we're all motorsport enthusiasts, and we can put aside our differences to have a little fun in our simulators.
I wonder if views on this subject will change if the bike goes to STEAM and the potential exists to be paid for mod content through workshop.
Quote from: Corrie on March 05, 2020, 03:50:45 AMI can't speak for the GPB or WRS side of things, but I feel as if the KRP side of things has come out of control a couple times in the past. Especially with content theft on content that was paid for, we saw rampant theft of models, files, and other data. It was difficult to deal with - see this thread (post #71) (http://forum.kartracing-pro.com/index.php?topic=5569.60). You can see that one of my mods was repackaged, renamed, and blatantly stolen. Aside from other community issues within that discussion, we saw some of the worst community involvement in this - namely that the members who had stolen were not reprimanded in the slightest. This had been an issue leading into that discussion and had been a major issue.
This brings me to the encryption tool. We have been looking for an anti-theft device for our mods for the last few years because of the issues we've had with people taking our content and releasing it as their own. This has happened with tracks, engines, tires, and paints for helmets and karts. We're part of a small community and content theft is something that pushes away serious modders. We have rallied behind an encryption tool because we feel as if our mods are high quality. See this example (https://simkartmodding.freeforums.net/thread/129/portfolo-hiattdesign-helmets-sticker-kits), and browse through the forum for other posts by Cory or Ian.
The encryption tool would allow us to prevent the modifying and distribution of our content. Especially on paid projects, it's insulting that people will buy it and try to 'crack' it. I understand there are many people who don't like us asking money for our work, and I know there are many who will tell us 'thats the way it is' when it comes to content theft. I view it as an issue, and we want to make it clear that we will not stand for it.
Mystic brings up so many good points, as do many of the posters in this thread. With the exception of blackheart, I feel like people have been at least somewhat constructive. However, I can see things aren't turning for the better. Hopefully this sorts itself out, and hopefully everyone can calm down a little bit. If anything, this post aims to serve as a secondary perspective for some of you who don't know about the blatant stealing that has gone on in the past. This is why some people are so adamant about anti-theft devices.
I don't want to see this community in shambles because of egos and disagreement. At the end of the day, we're all motorsport enthusiasts, and we can put aside our differences to have a little fun in our simulators.
I totally agree with you
Corrie and having read your links and others too I totally sympathise with your situation there..... It's a very sad reflection of recent generations attitude to what's right and wrong these days..... It's a disgrace in my book!!
If Piboso's projects want to attract the best modders for the community then there has to be an organised modding system, even if it requires Piboso to integrate any mods himself so he can keep control of what mods will be allowed to run in his projects.... Again, I refer people and Piboso to the modding model of Eagle Dynamics for DCS World as an example in how to keep control of mods for projects..... Piboso could even make a little extra money from it by taking a percentage of each mod unit sold if he wants to go down the monetising route for additional mods for his projects.
But the overall impression I have now is that while modding is open for all then it's not worth modding at all for Piboso's projects simply cause the open modding system has attracted SO many unscrupulous modders and bad attitudes in modding now that the only way to get control of it again would be for Piboso to stop the open modding of his projects and control it the same way as Eagle Dynamics have done with DSC World, or a similar working model.....
Just to end by saying a big congratulations to
Corrie and team for the great modding work they've done there in KRP..... Looks fantastic! Great work mate! ;) ;D 8)
Quote from: h106frp on March 05, 2020, 11:00:02 AMI wonder if views on this subject will change if the bike goes to STEAM and the potential exists to be paid for mod content through workshop.
As I indicated in my last post, I honestly think that until Piboso gets a grip on the way his modding model works then anything created, even like Corrie did to sell, will be wide open to abuse and copying by unscrupulous so called modders who will take advantage of others hard work..... Piboso needs to sort it out before modding could go down that route, in my opinion. ;)
Quote from: Hawk on March 04, 2020, 02:24:54 PMQuote from: HornetMaX on March 04, 2020, 12:56:07 PMAnd I feel you've missed the question, let me try to ask it again:
"I totally agree that copying without crediting is bad practice, but I still don't get what the authors of encrypted mods would gain from that.
I mean: modder B rips from modder A. What does modder A stand to lose from that ?"
If you have no clear answer to that, then I have no idea what we're talking about except modders' ego (not saying it's your/your team case in particular).
Max. You seem to be missing a basic overall situation here: No one is saying that all mods HAVE to be encrypted.
If the tool was made available0, then those that wish to encrypt their work can do so, but at the same time those that don't wish to encrypt their work can do that too, so why bring up issues that have no relevance to Piboso releasing his encryption tool? What's the issue here?
Seems to me that the only ones who don't like the idea of MOD work being encrypted by those the wish to do so are the ones who like the idea of being able to steal others work & information?
On top of that, there is the very likely possibility that if there was an encryption tool available for modders work then the more professional modders would more likely provide their work happily to the GPBike community..... It's a win win situation, so I just cannot understand the objections and somewhat lame excuses being put forward for not releasing Piboso's encryption tool? What's the problem, really, apart from as I said that certain people want to be able to steal others hard work and information and take credit for it. You wouldn't like it if someone stole your work and took credit for it so why do you expect others to not give a damn? It's not about ego, it's about doing what's right and actually giving a damn about doing what's right, something that is obviously lacking in recent generations by the sound of it?
Ok, I give up on you actually answering the question. Fine.
Yes, I did get it was optional but no, that's not a supporting argument.
Doing what's right is a very subjective matter.
My work here cannot be stolen, because it's free. In the past I've given my code to somebody else, just in case I run out of willingness to keep it updated. The day I decide to drop it, I'll surely throw it to somebody here. And when I actually started on MaxHUD, I got the basis from somebody else (random, thx man !).
There's no "PiBoSo encryption tool". If you want to do encrypted mods seriuously it may take quite some effort. PiBoSo is not Eagle Dynamics.
Quote from: h106frp on March 05, 2020, 11:00:02 AMI wonder if views on this subject will change if the bike goes to STEAM and the potential exists to be paid for mod content through workshop.
As I said initially, yes, defintely, as in this case there's money involved.
So is this the *real* justification for asking for mods encryption ?
Because that (money) would be a legitimate reason.
Personally, I wouldn't like GPB to take that direction however (paid-for mods), especially if PiBoSo doesn't get a share of the money (which Eagle Dynamics surely does).
Reading through the workshop notes they support pay what you want/free or priced options and allow you to automatically split the dividends with any decalred contributors so it would be possible to send all or some to PiBoso.
They also enforce control of ripped/stolen content through a takedown/arbitration channel or the ability to credit the original author and I guess add them to the payment dividend.
No interest in charging for my stuff but the pay what you want and divert the dividend back into core development is interesting.
Quote from: h106frp on March 06, 2020, 07:34:14 PMNo interest in charging for my stuff but the pay what you want and divert the dividend back into core development is interesting.
But we can do this today (without any encryption), no ?
Put a paypal button along your mod page here and when you (modder) get some money, just kick part of it back to PiBoSo (if he's OK with that, it may not be as easy as it sounds).
In which way would encryption make that easier ?
Bit off-topic: I do like steam and I find it very handy, but the cut they take is borderline outrageous, especially for small developers. As a developer (or modder) I defintely wouldn't be happy about it.
Quote from: HornetMaX on March 08, 2020, 08:45:43 PMIn which way would encryption make that easier ?
Bit off-topic: I do like steam and I find it very handy, but the cut they take is borderline outrageous, especially for small developers. As a developer (or modder) I defintely wouldn't be happy about it.
I don't mind a bit of off-topic debate on my threads Max. ;)
Totally agree with you about the cut that Steam take from devs, but there are ways and means around it for developers if they are clever....
As a dev you have to realise that there are several markets for your product: Those that will always buy products at full price from Steam, those that would never buy your products off Steam at full price but would look for cheap Steam Keys from Steam sales events or other sites that provide cheaper keys and those that would always look for pirated free versions...... As a developer and good businessman you can take advantage of all those markets in promoting your product sales.
As for file encryption...... The option should be there for those that wish to protect their work. For those that are not bothered(probably cause they are working with ripped content) they can continue to release unprotected content if Piboso wishes to continue to allow ripped content to be released for his projects. Problem solved Max. :P :)
(https://i.imgur.com/qaT657V.gif)