PiBoSo Official Forum

Hi all,

I'd like to have all the players using direct lean (in Settings/Input tab, direct lean case ticked) to report here, saying which kind of controller are they using (e.g. which joypad, or wheel or joystick) and if they are or not using manual rider lean left/right.

E.g. for me:

Controller:	Xbox 360 pad (lean of right stick)
Manual rider lean left/right:	no

MaX.

for me it's :

Controller:	Xbox 360 pad (lean of left stick)
Manual rider lean left/right:	no

Same here  :)

Controller:	Xbox 360 pad (lean of right stick)
Manual rider lean left/right:	no

I've always used direct lean, initially via joystick control, but recently bought an Xbox 360 controller for PC and work the direct lean via the right stick on the controller. Finding it very sensitive on the new controller, compared to the old joystick, so I'm thinking of experimenting with direct lean set to off and see how I get on with this Xbox controller.  :)


Controller: Xbox 360 pad (lean off right stick)

Manual rider lean left/right: Not yet. (I'm working on it, otherwise Klax is going to sell his Team Mate. Hehe.  ;D)

Controller: Thrustmaster Hotas setup ( joystick and throttle )
Auto lean

Just cant play with direct lean off. Bike feels like its riding in molasses

Controller:	Xbox 360 pad (lean of right stick)
Manual rider lean left/right:	no

Direct lean enabled
pad ps3
rider lean auto

Xbox 360 pad, lean of left stick

Manual rider lean.. No

Direct lean.. No

Right stick is clutch for me..

RB is downshift, B shift up, X rear brake (dont use)

What is direct lean for?

Quote from: Hawk_UK on April 18, 2014, 04:34:43 PM
I've always used direct lean, initially via joystick control, but recently bought an Xbox 360 controller for PC and work the direct lean via the right stick on the controller. Finding it very sensitive on the new controller, compared to the old joystick, so I'm thinking of experimenting with direct lean set to off and see how I get on with this Xbox controller.  :)


Controller: Xbox 360 pad (lean off right stick)

Manual rider lean left/right: Not yet. (I'm working on it, otherwise Klax is going to sell his Team Mate. Hehe.  ;D)

lol

Controller: Xbox 360 pad (Lean off Right Stick)

Manual rider lean left/right: Yes

Seems that I'm the only one using a steering wheel in the whole forum :-[. I must say that PiBoSo has done a quite nice job with the weight feel that you can feel on a forcefeesback steering wheel controller, so I recommend to use a steering wheel controller.. I use about 55º of rotation and 25 strong for the FFB. The steering wheel feels absolutely great.

Without the direct lean feature I can assure it is almost impossible to controll the bike with a steering wheel. Is like the input -> reaction takes lot of time, so I have no choice.

Controller: Logitech G25
Manual rider lean left/right: no (I have no inputs enought near to ride fast and comfortably)

Wow, there are more players than I though that are using Direct Lean ON ! So may I do have a doubt ... Ricco, JC, Klax do you have direct lean ON ?
I was asking for the configs ONLY of the ones who do have direct lean ON ...

@BOBR6 84: if you have direct lean off, well then you should not post in a topic asking who has direct lean ON :) What is Direct Lean, read here (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.msg2996#msg2996 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.msg2996#msg2996)) or here (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=959.msg10948#msg10948 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=959.msg10948#msg10948))

@BerScott: yeah, not a lot of players using a wheel. I tried once and one of the things I noticed is that it is hard to flick the bike quickly, but to be honest I didn't experiment enouogh. Direct lean ON is a must with a wheel IMO: due to the inertia of the wheel, your input is already "naturally" filtered enough. So what you say (slow input -> reaction with DL off) makes sense, it's exactly what I try to explain when I say that filtering naturally introduce a delay between your action and its result.

MaX.

Quote from: HornetMaX on April 19, 2014, 01:44:48 PM
Wow, there are more players than I though that are using Direct Lean ON ! So may I do have a doubt ... Ricco, JC, Klax do you have direct lean ON ?
I was asking for the configs ONLY of the ones who do have direct lean ON ...

@BOBR6 84: if you have direct lean off, well then you should not post in a topic asking who has direct lean ON :) What is Direct Lean, read here (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.msg2996#msg2996 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.msg2996#msg2996)) or here (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=959.msg10948#msg10948 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=959.msg10948#msg10948))

@BerScott: yeah, not a lot of players using a wheel. I tried once and one of the things I noticed is that it is hard to flick the bike quickly, but to be honest I didn't experiment enouogh. Direct lean ON is a must with a wheel IMO: due to the inertia of the wheel, your input is already "naturally" filtered enough. So what you say (slow input -> reaction with DL off) makes sense, it's exactly what I try to explain when I say that filtering naturally introduce a delay between your action and its result.

MaX.

Oops, nope I don't use Direct Lean On, I haven't been to bed yet and miss read it. lol

Lol ok no problem.. Thanks for the link though I will try out direct lean!

Hi guys IMHO you have to use Direct Lean to get the right reaction. I used to use a G27 which I first used to design my steering system which acts to counter steering but at the same time is exact for the lean angle of the bike to the handlebars on my system. I use a mini joystick on the left handlebar next to the clutch lever for rider left/right lean and front/rear lean.

IASystems "Fullthrottle HS1" controller (Full race bodied sit-on version)  Only link left as my server is down, scroll down to "Un contrôleur moto pour votre PC". This is a system I am building and no mini joysticks on it yet. As you can see DOH its also with no race body kit. Setting up new server now. Thats not me on it in the grey I aint that old lol.






http://www.theracingline.fr/tag/SimRacing%20-%20Mat%C3%A9riel/5 (http://www.theracingline.fr/tag/SimRacing%20-%20Mat%C3%A9riel/5)

Direct Lean = YES
Rider left/right lean = Yes, left mini joystick.

I've actually started using manual lean with direct on recently. I find I lose traction a lot less coming out of a extreme sharp turn by easing off on lean first manually before standing the bike up.

Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 23, 2014, 09:24:37 PM
Hi guys IMHO you have to use Direct Lean to get the right reaction. I used to use a G27 which I first used to design my steering system which acts to counter steering but at the same time is exact for the lean angle of the bike to the handlebars on my system. I use a mini joystick on the left handlebar next to the clutch lever for rider left/right lean and front/rear lean.

IASystems "Fullthrottle HS1" controller (Full race bodied sit-on version)  Only link left as my server is down, scroll down to "Un contrôleur moto pour votre PC". This is a system I am building and no mini joysticks on it yet. As you can see DOH its also with no race body kit. Setting up new server now. Thats not me on it in the grey I aint that old lol.






http://www.theracingline.fr/tag/SimRacing%20-%20Mat%C3%A9riel/5 (http://www.theracingline.fr/tag/SimRacing%20-%20Mat%C3%A9riel/5)

Direct Lean = YES
Rider left/right lean = Yes, left mini joystick.

finally you came in this forum lol
welcome lol, glad to see you again

Quote from: Taliessyn on April 24, 2014, 07:36:35 AM
I've actually started using manual lean with direct on recently. I find I lose traction a lot less coming out of a extreme sharp turn by easing off on lean first manually before standing the bike up.

That's very interesting !

MaX.

Quote from: HornetMaX on April 24, 2014, 08:53:12 AM

Quote from: Taliessyn on April 24, 2014, 07:36:35 AM
I've actually started using manual lean with direct on recently. I find I lose traction a lot less coming out of a extreme sharp turn by easing off on lean first manually before standing the bike up.

That's very interesting !

MaX.

I've noticed this too, I don't use direct lean, but in tight corners. When I can feel the bike begin to wobble, I'll slowly get my rider behind the wind screen and I can feel the traction come back and the wobble go away even if my the turn radius hasn't changed.

Hmmm... This does sound like it could be an issue with the way the virtual rider works with the bike? Sounds like the virtual rider could be unbalancing the bike when on auto lean, and helps counter unbalance if riders use manual lean.... Yes interesting observations guys. ;)

Quote from: Alby46 on April 24, 2014, 07:58:54 AM

Quote from: doubledragoncc on April 23, 2014, 09:24:37 PM
Hi guys IMHO you have to use Direct Lean to get the right reaction. I used to use a G27 which I first used to design my steering system which acts to counter steering but at the same time is exact for the lean angle of the bike to the handlebars on my system. I use a mini joystick on the left handlebar next to the clutch lever for rider left/right lean and front/rear lean.

IASystems "Fullthrottle HS1" controller (Full race bodied sit-on version)  Only link left as my server is down, scroll down to "Un contrôleur moto pour votre PC". This is a system I am building and no mini joysticks on it yet. As you can see DOH its also with no race body kit. Setting up new server now. Thats not me on it in the grey I aint that old lol.






http://www.theracingline.fr/tag/SimRacing%20-%20Mat%C3%A9riel/5 (http://www.theracingline.fr/tag/SimRacing%20-%20Mat%C3%A9riel/5)

Direct Lean = YES
Rider left/right lean = Yes, left mini joystick.

finally you came in this forum lol
welcome lol, glad to see you again

Thanks man good to be back. Been a frickin hard year.  I am working on a system that will use the body of the rider on one of my systems to control the rider in the sim, but its quite hard to keep cost down. Been working with gyros and accelerometers so hope to be testing soon. A head tracking system would be the dogs bollocks for rider control.

I'm really interested in get a way to manage to manually lean, but as I'm using a steering wheel I'm not sure if two hands will be enought. Also I've assigned the main inputs like a car, that means that I use the three pedals like a car, with the difference that the clutch pedal is used for the rear brake. And yes, I must say that I'm using a automatic clutch (I'm so noob).

An axis attached to the body would be interesting to manually control leaning, but I would feel ridiculous moving my body in front of my desktop ::) But is pretty clear that to take control of the lean is essential to have a better riding experience.

really, i missed you, i didn't know how to enjoy this forum

Thanks Alby, back atya bro. Was in Wisconsin to help a customer with a world record on his turbo 1200 Bandit (130mph on the rear wheel on lake wisconsin} Ended up dating his mum and it went to shit lol. I have a meetin with a backer next week and hope to be able to really get into making the system with rider movement through the body movement but a lot of work. Any ideas welcome and l will try them out is they seem good.

also direct lean here

using a selfmade handlebar with throttle, front brake, clutch(rear brake) and thump throttle on left side for clutch, handelbar is mounted on a logitech momo force

Quote from: ChrisK on April 27, 2014, 04:18:49 PM
also direct lean here

using a selfmade handlebar with throttle, front brake, clutch(rear brake) and thump throttle on left side for clutch, handelbar is mounted on a logitech momo force

Pictures of the thing ?

MaX.

haha atm its all hot glue, tesa, a honda cl 250 clutch lever, kawasaki el throttle, kid bycicle brake, thump throttle is from a rock shox lock out lever etc. etc.

all parts was from my garage i so it cost me 0€

so nothing special to see, it was just for testing if i can build a handlebar controller, now i buy some good potis and boards from leo bodnar.

here a video in bad quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8fJQguGZbM

Quote from: ChrisK on April 28, 2014, 10:09:12 AM
haha atm its all hot glue, tesa, a honda cl 250 clutch lever, kawasaki el throttle, kid bycicle brake, thump throttle is from a rock shox lock out lever etc. etc.

all parts was from my garage i so it cost me 0€

so nothing special to see, it was just for testing if i can build a handlebar controller, now i buy some good potis and boards from leo bodnar.

here a video in bad quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8fJQguGZbM

I use the BU0836X from Leo and it is the best one he makes. It has 32 digital inputs, 1 4-way POV and 8 analog inputs which also take his load cell accelerator for brakes. Works best with 10K pots Vishay are the best for their price. Fungizmos have mini joysticks and board for about $8 and Opentip have buttons and switches from $1.95 better parts than Radio Shack and all online. Hope that helps. The BU0836X also has solderless connecters. Heres some links

http://www.opentip.com/index.php?cPath=25387&keywords=switches&page=2 (http://www.opentip.com/index.php?cPath=25387&keywords=switches&page=2)

http://store.fungizmos.com/items/295 (http://store.fungizmos.com/items/295)

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=180 (http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=180)

I use gears from RC cars at the moment but they are expensive but needed to get the right amount of steering or it can be to sensitive with Direct Lean on.

oh that helps alot, thank you   :-*

have u seen a poti like this before?

http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/442162/ALPS-Stereo-Flachbahnschieberegler-RS60N12-10KBX2-Stereo-10-k-02-W-20-?ref=list

sorry the site is in german.

i was thinking its easyer for wire connection but i dont know how good it works

I know others (Sh@rk) use linear pots for their analog controls (throttle handle, brake/clutch levers).

I can't judge on the quality of that specific item, only thing I know ALPS produce some pretty good stuff for hifi audio (that pot is "stereo", i.e. has two pots linked to the same slider).

MaX.

ah ok thx for the info.

have shark post some photos anywhere?

He had a video (in french) showing how he does it (g25/27 + pocket bke handlebars + leo controller), but it is no longer available (I guess because he has signed a contract to produce a controller).

Anyway the video would have taught you nothing I think.

MaX.

I use rotary pots as I can gear them and change the ratios, linear pots are not as precise as rotary ones. I want to get into 3D printing to be able to reduse costs and also have more design freedom. Direct lean makes all the difference if you have the right controller it is easier to get a more realistic feeling too. I am working on a full motion system too but it is dang hard to do, but got some good ideas. It wont be cheap dang it lol.

how do u connect the wire with the poti? is there a "swingarm" on the poti?

ya  had the same idea with 3d printing but for me its only fun, i dont want to produce something or get a full motion system i just want more axis and a better feeling but no gamepad can give it, so i build my own controller

also was thinking about a  small fixed handlebar without steering, only for throttle and brakes/clutch, leaning and steering with a thump joystick.

On rotary pots there are 3 wires. The center connector is the output from the pot to the control board. the outer connectors are the positive and ground inputs to the pot. You can wire them either way depending on which way you want the pot to rotate from 0 to 4096, meaning clockwise or anti-clockwise. If you wish to use a pot for the x-axis or y-axis in Windows to calibrate the pot you need to center the pot. this is best done by measuring the output from the pot with an ohmmeter and setting it to  2048. or if you use software like DIView or DXTweak2 it will show you the exact position of the pots rotor. If you need any wiring diagrams or so just ask. I will help as much as I can.

ah sorry i mean how do u connect the brake, clutch, throttle wire with the poti?

i dont use the wires like u

example how i do it on the throttle

(http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3607/tghcxls5_jpg.htm)

AH, you mean as in the throttle, brake and clutch cables? I use gears on a gear carrier to the cable and the pinnion gear directly on the pot shaft

hey dragon did u ever try a electric throttle from e-bikes?

i think they have a integrated hall sensor

do u think this work wit a leo bodnar board?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_sensor

http://www.leafmotor.com/e-bike-parts/info-twist-throttle.jpg

As far as they are 0..5V there should be no issue.

MaX.

its from 0 to 4,5
is this also ok?

Think so. You may lose a bit of range, no big deal.

If you search around the web you may find forums with people DIY-ing joysticks with hall sensors + the Leo board, might be wise to ask them .

MaX.

thanks i try my luck

Hi guys. Hal sensors work on Leo's boards. The only drawback is that the feeling of an electric throttle is so wrong, jut like a joystick it has no feel to it. With a real throttle with a cable and correct spring for return, it feels REAL, therefore making the action of using the throttle a natural action for the brain, it gives an automatic sence of reality. I use only new parts that I get from Broward Motorsports in Florida and they have very good prices, this makes the controls reliable and you basically cant break the damn things lol.

The most important thing in making a control that works with direct lean correctly is to remember to "look outside of the box", real world physics do not apply sitting still in a room!!! I have tried using Gyros and Accelerometers but find they are far to sensitive. For the right amount of feeling and control for steering you need to use potentiometers with gears to get the correct amount of control. Even now I still try different gearing just to see if I can get it even more realistic. Force-feedback is a no go at the moment, I have a few designs I am going to try, but you must not make the mistake of thinking along the same lines as FFB for steering wheels. When I ride with my system for anything over 30 mins, its quite a workout as I am using far more physical effort than just turning a wheel. Many look at my videos and still dont get the fact that it is actually counter-steering, I push the bars left to go right, using my southern pendulum design makes riding with direct lean a natural action, I dont have to think to lean, it just works. Until software writers have a real controller to write code for, it is hard to make a system that is like a real bike. The amount of handlebar movement in the real world is just to small that it makes the imput for bike sims far too sensitive.

I hope that put a bit more light on the subject.

Just buy a track/race bike and do trackdays for a kick.. Or start racing! ;)
Probably cheaper lol

Just kidding.. Each to there own an all that..

Just thinking that if u go for the full bike setup surely it has to lean and pivot back with hydraulics or something lol

Otherwise you might aswell just sit with a control pad..

G27. direct lean > ON
Manual rider > lean left/right OFF

(I Think, never will try )) despite the fact, that it heard proverb "never say never")

Controller:
     DFGT
Manual rider lean left/right:
     no

Directlean yes

Quote from: BerScott on April 19, 2014, 01:25:08 PM
Seems that I'm the only one using a steering wheel in the whole forum :-[. I must say that PiBoSo has done a quite nice job with the weight feel that you can feel on a forcefeesback steering wheel controller, so I recommend to use a steering wheel controller.. I use about 55º of rotation and 25 strong for the FFB. The steering wheel feels absolutely great.

Without the direct lean feature I can assure it is almost impossible to controll the bike with a steering wheel. Is like the input -> reaction takes lot of time, so I have no choice.

Controller: Logitech G25
Manual rider lean left/right: no (I have no inputs enought near to ride fast and comfortably)

i use DFGT'i think the streering wheel will be  accurate'but it isnt  convenient