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April 22, 2019, 08:04:13 pm


GP Bikes beta15b available! :)

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Topics - Phathry25

Suggestions and wishlist / More surface types
November 29, 2018, 04:50:11 am
I know I've made various suggestions about this in the past, please review those if you'd like as well. :)

We just got done turning about 400 laps on a track and it was awesome how the track and line evolved over the course of the laps.  A few things came up as we were driving. 

The track naturally starts off smooth, and then the soft soil and soil layers erode quickly, after maybe 50 laps, and by the time the compact soil layer starts to show through in most areas of the racing line the track is just about too rough to drive on.  (Relevant bits of the THT file below.)  So at that point what was talked about is having the soil erode slower so smaller heights could be used when defining the layers.  The drawback to this is that a cushion or lip will not form at the edge of the groove or compact soil layer. At this point we soldiered on driving the very rough line in order to get the track to smooth out a bit as more and more compact soil showed through.  Eventually it got smooth enough to be decently "raceable" at which point we started to work our right rear tire onto the cushion and grippier soil/soft soil that was at the outer edge of the compact soil layer.  Lap times were a little faster or equal to times that could be turned by running the compact soil line at this point.  Maybe around 150-200 laps total usage on the track.  So we kept running with the right rear tire out on the cushion for another 100 laps or so pushing the cushion higher and higher as we went, eventually pushing it high enough that the wall started to become a problem and the laptimes equaled back off as the was no more grippy soil left to drive on. This was probably around the 300-350 lap mark.  Then we started to square off the corner, entering high and exiting low, doing our best to keep the tires in the all important soil/soft soil layers.  The corner exits stated to get rough quickly and once again the quick way around became to just run the normal groove/racing line on the mostly smoothed off compact soil now.

So about the actual suggestion. Clay surface types that erode extremely slow, and an all important base clay layer that takes on rubber.  In my head it works out to like base clay, clay, and clay1.  That way we can start off with a track that looks fresh and then erodes to a lighter dryer layer and eventually to a dark or rubbered up layer that is slicker but eventually takes on rubber and gains a small amount of grip back.  As far as erosion rates go we though somewhere around 1000 laps (total laps, 10 cars x 10laps = 100 laps) would be approximately the 150-200 lap description above.  2500 laps would be the 300-350 lap description above. So erosion for these clay surfaces would have to be somewhere around 1/10th of what the current rates are, if not more in the case of the soft soil layer which wears very quickly. As you can see below, we're working with about 12.5cm or 5" of erode before reaching the compact soil.  As far as the height of the cushion goes this is mostly accurate, but we're getting there way too quick, and I am hypothesizing that that is the reason for the track getting far too rough in the early laps.  Take a look below and see if you think I am using anything incorrectly, or if I can do anything differently to get a more favorable result.

I've also noticed that certain cars, or tires wear the track much more quickly than others.  What all goes into calculation the erode rate and could a line be added to the tyre file to have some control over this?  Just to make sure that a sprint car doesn't work the track in in 100 laps, but a midget takes 1000.


So for reference here are my textures and some other info....

Soft soil (freshly prepped track, most grip, 1.06, 5cm)

Soil (water blown off, medium grip, 0.95, 7.5cm)

Compact soil (grooved track, least grip, 0.85, this layer should take rubber)

THT file
samples_x = 1025
samples_z = 1025

data = heightmap1025.raw

size_x = 350
size_z = 350
scale = 4.43

num_material_layers = 4

material = compact soil

material = soil
; mask = mask_track.tga
thickness = 0.075

material = soft soil
mask = mask_track.tga
thickness = 0.05

material = grass
mask = mask_grass.tga
thickness = 0.025

General Discussion / What's changed since b11?
November 22, 2018, 06:43:29 am
Installed beta 13 last night and all my cars that worked in B11 are broken.  I read the release notes and nothing stood out that would cause my cars to be broken.  The game won't load at all with them in the directory.  Must be something model related?
Moto2 Championship 2018 / Upcoming tracks
March 27, 2018, 03:53:45 am
Any chance we can get some braking boards added to Hockenheim?  I can figure it out in solo runs, in traffic it will be a disaster though.  It's not an option IMO... Needs to be fixed or scrapped.

Poznan sucks, too many jumps for this game. Can we please vote to replace it?  Pretty please with a cherry on top.
Suggestions and wishlist / Update demo cintent
February 22, 2018, 06:53:54 pm
Every time I suggest GP Bikes to someone I always hear the same response. That game is way too hard. I can't even make a lap without crashing. I set out to make an instructional on how to survive a lap without falling. Here's what happened.

Mods / Phat's toys
October 24, 2017, 02:49:40 am
Link to some of the stuff I have converted.  Most of it is rubbish model wise, just fun stuff for me to toy around with.  I'll list what's in there and what it's status is, briefly... I like to build the mods, but for just me to play I'm not going to put in much more work than the bare minimum.  Enjoy it if you want.


Legends cars
Converted from rF trellet.mod mod.
Terrible models, need much updating.
Physics are decent, base setup needs stiffer rear springs and more rear preload to come alive

Tour modifieds
Converted from rf blackout sim racing mod
Models are okayish, cockpit needs much work.
Physics are very fun, maybe need grippier tires. iRacing setup's work well, corner weights match when converting. :)

Converted from rF mod.
Models is okay, I updated the cockpit a little bit.  Body could use updating.  Some suspension and steering parts are animated. :)
Updated for beta 13 on 11/29/18.  Currently working on these, cars, expect new versions regularly.

Chilibowl beta versions.  Latest one is probably the best. YMMV.
Not sure whats in the tracks.rar.  !pibosotracks is my editing folder, probably some tools and templates that can be used in there.
Lake Erie (will overwrite the ash play version or vice versa. Will update eventually.)

Flat rock
Lake erie

All not stellar conversions, but functional.
Tracks / Track not tracking laps
October 19, 2017, 03:16:17 am
Any ideas?  I'm sure its something dumb, I've made plenty of tracks... I just can't figure out what's going on.  Having this happen on more than one track, but most are fine....


Bug Reports / Fewer FPS in WRS vs KRP/GPB/MXB
June 23, 2017, 11:41:26 pm
My framerates are terrible in WRS only, 25-30.  The other games all work fine, 90-100 FPS with everything maxed out.  I recently switched from nVidia to AMD and haven't applied and special settings to WRS via the Radeon tools.  I tried a fresh install and user folder and it was the same.  What am I missing?

Radeon Software Version - 17.6.2
Radeon Software Edition - Crimson ReLive
Graphics Chipset - Radeon (TM) RX 470 Graphics
Memory Size - 4096 MB
Memory Type - GDDR5
Core Clock - 1250 MHz
Windows Version - Windows 7 (Service Pack 1) (64 bit)
System Memory - 20 GB
CPU Type - Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz

Physics / Beta 11b steering and stagger changes
June 22, 2017, 05:24:26 am
Any explanation of what is being measured in the geom file for the steering now? X seems to be absolute, Y and Z are from spindle center?  What is the drag link link offset from?

What are the new stagger models?  I compared my car and one of the updated sprint cars, no luck finding the difference.  Other than my car not having a left rear wheel in the game.

Here's my quick list that I came up with after being away from the game waiting on bug fixes/features. I feel like I am forgetting some things, but this list is a solid start, IMO. (20 years of sim racing experience, lead the charge in getting the last two well supported dirt racing modding platforms up and running.)


  • Axle 'wrap' / Pinion forces

  • Suspension kinematics bug fix
    • Suspension movement does not follow constraints

  • Support for pull rod and lift arm suspensions

    • Axle birdcage

    • 5th spring and damper

  • Vertical ballast adjustment in garage

  • Display left side weight %, nose weight % and cross weight % in the garage

  • Damage

The first three things on the car list are 100% necessary, no further development can be done until these features are added / bugs fixed.  Damage is a strong want, need something to deter rough driving.  Not holding up the show

  • Drying line on dirt/clay surfaces

  • Multiple light sources for night lighting

  • Save/Load track state

  • Custom surface types

    • Control rate of deformation

    • Tuning of grip levels

    • Control of drying rate

I fully know custom surface types will not be added, I can see how the game is coded and why this would not be a worthwhile change.  Can we settle for allowing a 2, 3, 4 suffix to be added to the soil types in the TYRE file?  Drying line is a must, the added depth of simulation makes this so.  Without it, the deformation alone is a novelty. Some way of controlling the deformation and drying rates of each soil type on a per track basis is also highly desirable.

  • Adjust suspension constraints via garage menu

    • Panhard bar pickup points

    • Four bar pickup points on axle/birdcage and chassis

  • Proper race formats (Heats, Semis, Final)

  • Click and hold for quicker garage adjustments

Having the game automatically setup the event format would be great, a workable compromise would be to allow the grid to be set via scripting or an in game menu.  Adjusting the rear suspension constrains in the garage is a need.  Setting min/max and step for each joint (like what is used in the front of the car) and a place the move them in the garage menu is all that is needed.

Thanks for your time, and please, if you have any questions ask away.

7/19/2017 - updates in pink
Bug Reports / Steering ratio = steering lock
January 11, 2017, 01:56:17 am
I always thought steering ratio was the ratio of the steering wheel to the ratio of the steering at the tires.  In WRS it works out more like a steering lock adjustment. Higher steering ratio just equals more lock.  I was hoping to be able to keep the lock of my front wheels the same but allow for more or less sensitive steering with the steering ratio adjustment.  Is this WAD?
Tracks / Silver Dollar w/ deformation
January 04, 2017, 01:23:13 am
I got a pack of tracks a while back that were all NDS, not sure who sent them over, but I said I would convert them to deformation.  Here's the first one.  It's a little rough, but that just makes it funner.  If some poor sap out there wants to know how to convert the rest they take an hour or so to do.  I'll show you how. :)

Click image to download.
Bug Reports / Knoxville - cloudy weather - black sky
December 09, 2016, 05:14:03 am
Nothing to add here.
Cars / Animation of car geometry
December 09, 2016, 05:09:45 am
Any insight on how to define the stuff in the GFX.cfg file?

Position? Rot? Axle? Spindle? Relative to what? How to measure?

These obviously aren't absolute mounting positions.

General Discussion / What is this?
November 24, 2016, 04:33:25 am
Physics / Rear axle wrap
September 21, 2016, 01:32:37 am
Is this type of axle movement simulated?  The whole rear axle rotating backwards as the wheels drive forward.  I am having a whole pile of trouble getting any anti-squat or rise effect out of my rear suspension geometry, and I'm starting to think that this might be the cause.  If it is simulated I can't spot it at all while watching the blue rectangle that represents the rear axle in debug mode.  I'm sure my terminology is wrong here, as axle wrap is limited to leaf spring setups.  But it's the best illustration I can gather with my limited knowledge.  Basically I need the rear suspension to rise under acceleration instead of squad.  No matter how I configure my rear suspension according to a multitude of articles I can't even get a hint of anti-squat or rise from my suspension, only squat.


Here's an example of the application we are going for with an elaborate pull bar w/ spring.  The spring isn't necessary, this video is just the best illustration I can find of my application.
Physics / More suspension help
September 16, 2016, 03:44:21 pm
Hi. Still can't figure out how to accurately model suspensions in the geom/CFG file.  :'(

Okay. So I setup a model and added in all the points that I would need and made sure it was accurate. Setup my front and rear suspension using the points from this model. It was modeled at ride height with the wheel centers equidistant from the center of the world, and at 0 height.

In game this setup needed about 5" right height added in via the CFG file. But it worked as expected. Upon further inspection all of the body mounting points were far lower than expected and modeled. So I set about finding a solution. Remeasured my shock figures (I think I finally figured out how PiBoSo is measuring them) and moved all of my suspension mounting points down by 0.2.

The car now sits at the correct height without major ride height adjustments and the body mounting points are in the correct position. But The car doesn't drive as expected. My COG is correct so are all my wheel weights and spring rates. The car just under steers like a dump truck, and the rear suspension doesn't move correctly.

I though oh well it will come around at least I got the suspension to be in the correct position. I'll adjust the spinner shock length so it looks nice on the spinner. That will be a win. I found the correct length, plugged it into the INI file and my RF tire was in the correct position. The LF was completely broken, laying on its side.

The suspension is built symmetrically, how can this happen? And why is it correct in the garage and on the track, but not on the spinner?

Off Topic / iRacing to add karts
September 12, 2016, 08:44:40 pm
Announcement at 1pm EDT tomorrow.

I'm like 90% sure.
Cars / Street Stock Beta - Updated for B9
September 07, 2016, 11:28:43 pm
Street Stock Beta - B9

Just a quick and dirty update to bring things into line for use in Beta 9.  There may be some small tweaks included I've forgotten about, we haven't done any development over the summer.  The ones I do know of are tire related, and hastily described below.  Please spread the word, as we are desperate for feedback. :-[

  • 20% more grip, this version is simulating a 10" tire versus an 8" tire before.  Although my grip calculations could have been bad before, and this amount of grip could be correct for an 8" tire.  Check it out, tell us what you think.

  • Tires produce more grip the wetter the track is, maxing out at 100% wetness.  Not sure if this was like this before or not.  I included a link to a crappy track (Antigo) that has proper textures to support this.  All other tracks may not look great/show wear & ruts.  It is the direction I would like to go however, unless PiBoSo tells me I am an idiot and not to.

  • Slight tire slip calculation changes, nothing major here, I think.  I don't remember 100%, but I think I made some small adjustments to aid drive-ability.