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if we are talking about simulating 2 stroke GP bikes, the throttle blipping is mainly to allow lubricating oil into the rotating assembly since they run premix and while off throttle the entire rotating assembly is sans fuel and life saving lubrication.

So to better "live the thrill" you need to learn how to keep the fuel flowing when in traditionally off throttle situations.

Does GPB simulate 2 stroke engine seizing?

 "varying amount of steady state pressure" is the easiest way I have of describing how I ride when explaining counter steering concepts to newbie riders I have met over the years who don't realize what they are doing when riding. What we are doing is not violently yanking the bars or see-sawing - we apply varying steady state-like forces to the bars.

Who said my ideal design would have fixed bars?

I would envision the "rigid" state of the bars to be provided by the countering force of an electric motor setup. At rest that force is zero and the bars are free to turn. As you speed up, the gyroscopic stability of the rotating wheel is simulated by the stiffening force applied to the steering stem as fed back from the game (which is the source of the force notification in our scenario).

The current state of the bars would be driven by feedback from GP Bikes - this is what I was unsure about, whether GPB was setup for this very scenario.

In essence, if the game can setup the bars state and attitude and the player can then respond as they would in real life we might just have the perfect match.

Granted this prototype controller would need $1000+ worth of load cells, USB interface boards and FFB motors on top of the actual construction - quite the commitment

[Most of the time you'll have to apply some extra torque (e.g. 3N) to make the bar turn, then the bike will start leaning more and once you're at 30deg, you'll have to reduce the torque, Once you're at 30deg it may be that to hold that lean you'll only need 2N, just like at 20deg (or maybe more or maybe even less !).There's no simple link between a steady steering torque and a steady lean angle, at least not on a real bike.]

This may be the better a better use for load cells. I was just thinking the nature of load cells needing constant pressure, which is what we do when we lean or counter steer - we apply a varying amount of steady state pressure.

This is the point that I can't manage to explain to you.

Let's say you're leaning at 20deg in steady conditions (stable lean angle, constant speed, constant track and tyre conditions): at this point your bars are at a given angle (not necessarily zero, but smallish) and you have to apply a torque to the bard to hold everything steady. The torque you have to apply is usually not big, but it depends on the bike overall geometry (bike, tryres, masses, ...). It could even be zero in some conditions. Let's say the torque is 2N (Newtons).

Now let's imagine you want to lean more, to 30deg. What you say is: I want to lean more so I need to apply more torque. You're kind of expecting that there's fixed amount of torque (let's say 3N) that will make you go to 30deg lean and then, to hold that lean, you have to hold the 3N torque. That's wrong.

Most of the time you'll have to apply some extra torque (e.g. 3N) to make the bar turn, then the bike will start leaning more and once you're at 30deg, you'll have to reduce the torque,
Once you're at 30deg it may be that to hold that lean you'll only need 2N, just like at 20deg (or maybe more or maybe even less !).

There's no simple link between a steady steering torque and a steady lean angle, at least not on a real bike.

After that, you can try to use a load cell to dictate the target lean angle to GPB (after all that's not any crazier than using a joystick angle).
But the justification for that cannot be "because that's what we do on a real bike", because it's not.

It seems you assume I do not understand or know much about motorcycle control. Note how I stated:

we apply a varying amount of steady state pressure.

I understand exactly how motorcycle control works and that we need to over come various steady state conditions by various inputs.

The discussion is about the suitability of load cells as the input sensor of choice, and if the load cell needs to have dynamically applied filtering to the input and perhaps even output signals, filtering that is driven by yet another set of signal analysis based on lean angle, speed etc. then so be it and that is the subject of the final controller design.

But if I as the player have to provide both the input and resistance as I saw my way around the corner like we did before quality Force Feedback controllers on the car side of sim-gaming then I may as well keep using the XBox or PS2 controller.

If we are actually trying to overcome/counter forces presented to the rider by the bike, then we should at least have them brought to the table by the bike and not simulated by our own controlled responses to the dynamics of the situation - and as far as I understand GP Bikes is able to represent the forces presented by the bike in this equation very well.

I also understand passions run high and any 'new comer' on the scene will rile up the locals that have rehashed these subjects ad infinitum   Just throwing my idea in the ring

[I just can't see why load cells wouldn't work for left-right rider movement]

Even after a bunch of thought on the matter, I just can't see why load cells wouldn't work for left-right rider movement (not steering). One on each side of the tank of a sit on system so when you are full hang off and a leg is hooked over the tank pushing a panel with a load cell, it would deploy the knee and get the rider out off the side of the bike, rather than letting the auto lean deal with it as I currently do with the desk top system I mess around with from time to time, also allowing for you to counter weight the bike out of a power slide or stay tucked into the bike at high speed cornering if you desire such a movement to improve upon a lap time that is being held back by the rider hanging way off causing instability. If I ever get around to digging up my spare frame and all the associated bits and bobs for it to build a full sit on system I may attempt it just to see how it work, worst that happens is I just tick the auto lean box again and give up. 

This may be the better a better use for load cells. I was just thinking the nature of load cells needing constant pressure, which is what we do when we lean or counter steer - we apply a varying amount of steady state pressure.

They just seem to be the appropriate input sensor for these types pf actions - in my mind at least.

All is already in:
a) same direction steer at low speeds,
b) countersteer at high speeds,
c) low bars angle at high speed, "stiff" direction at high speed (that's not exactly correct, but I see what you mean).

Are you suggesting that the GP Bikes game engine already has this control model with force feedback loop already coded in? If so that just adds to the awe of the GPB.

Actually I do get it.  I know exactly what I want to feel when I ride - I currently sit still not moving any muscles except  2 thumbs and 2 fingers.  How is that not boring?

It just seems you won't permit anyone else to think outside YOUR box

Hmm, the advantage with using load cell on brake pedal is you can have very stiff pedal with little movement but large force applied by your foot/leg and very fine control and still not lock up the brakes in game.

Every time I play a driving sim with the load cell brake pedal I think how this might work for a bike .I would want to use a load cell for the front brake lever and rear brake pedal as well.

For brakes yes (even if it's far from sure it's worth the effort), but for steering ...

I have been using load cell brakes for 5 years now on the PC/PS3/PS4/XboxOne driving rig and would not bother using pedals without them. Being able to use proper leg and foot power on the brake pedal and modulate the force and not have brakes lock up is an essential part of the immersion.

When I ride I expect and would anticipate the front brake lever to be very firm, so a load cell again would give me the feel I would expect and anticipate - same for rear brake, which would allow for proper foot brake modulation.

I envision a speed sensitive steering setup that allows conventional turn left for left and turn right for right at very low speeds - under 1 or 2 mph then the steering locks up and all you get is about 10 degrees of rotation up against the load cells or similar force driven input that requires push left to go left and push right to go right and then as speed increases the steering lock decreases and stiffens up until at speed all you can do is push against the bars and the steering lock is now controlled by feedback from the game engine - so if you get a tank slapper you better be ready to hold on or rather loosen up on the bars and let the bike settle down and ride it out

There - that's my dream controller description

The reason I am so fired up and inspired today is because I finally got round to starting up my 1987 TZ250T that I was lucky enough to get hold of last year - previously it had been on display in the window of a little Japanese bike shop for the previous 25 years and was only let out for the occasional parade event.

Hmm, the advantage with using load cell on brake pedal is you can have very stiff pedal with little movement but large force applied by your foot/leg and very fine control and still not lock up the brakes in game.

Every time I play a driving sim with the load cell brake pedal I think how this might work for a bike .I would want to use a load cell for the front brake lever and rear brake pedal as well.

Granted it would best be combined with a sit on rig so you could lean and push on the inside bar nice and hard and steadily just they way one does when on a bike at speed, but even a desk mount system that offered a lot of resistance would feel more natural to me than handle bars that rotated even a small amount.

These Sh@rk videos all focus on the game on screen rather than the controller.

Please provide video showing how the bike is mounted and moves and the actual controller interfaces on the bike rather than the game screen - we all know what the games look like, however no-one gets to see the controller you are promoting.

I have a load sensor upgrade to brake pedal on my Thrustmaster T500 steering wheel setup.

The load sensor allows one to step hard on the brakes and have very fine control over all that force.

Would a handle bar setup using 2 load sensors to detect the counter steering input not allow the rider to put a lot of pressure on the bars allowing for finer control?