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Messages - Stout Johnson

91
Off Topic / Re: Assetto GT2 Championship
December 03, 2017, 03:42:25 PM
Well I miss the racing with you guys, so please sign me up for this. ;) even if it means to play arcade games :P
92
I am also a huge fan of rf2. For me it is the only sim that really resembles the illusion of having a track day like in real life. The physics feel very realistic (for most cars at least), good ffb, nice weather effects etc. I have been very addicted to it lately and it is even addictive to play against the AI which feels very good. Only gripe with it, is that the AI seems to be almost flawless and does not make errors or spin off track or sth. The only field where rf2 did lack a bit was the visuals, but the videos above really do look nice : )

Btw, I still like to see where WRS is headed. Biggest downsides to me are suspension and tyres simulation at the moment, otherwise WRS has lots of potential, especially when it comes to dirt.
93
Off Topic / Re: EA
November 30, 2017, 02:47:32 PM
Good decision. Essentially it is gampling... smh, what has the world come up to  ???
94
Quote from: vini97 on November 28, 2017, 11:45:02 AM
I think you will agree with me that tankslappers (and powerslides) are by far the most unrealistic part of the VR (or GPB in general) at the moment. More importantly though, there might be an easy fix to this.
Totally agree, the known understeering problem is on that list too.

Quote from: vini97 on November 28, 2017, 11:45:02 AM
My proposal would be one (very big) step towards a more realistic VR in general. Of course there is always more to be tweaked here and there but that has much lower priority.
These more in-depth modifications will also yield much less reward for the work time invested by PiBoSo.
I totally agree. I think you have misunderstood my proposal (or I have not been clear enough). My proposal was to add a more realistic reaction time and some sort of filtering to make reactions more smooth. Would have been very easy to implement too. ; )

Anyhow, would love to hear Piboso's take on your propsal here. Would be nice if he would allow some of his thoughts to transpire.
95
Quote from: vini97 on November 28, 2017, 10:26:52 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 28, 2017, 09:04:03 AM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 28, 2017, 08:26:21 AM
I have always wonderes what the reaction time of the VR is. My assumption would be that it is 0.0s which obviously would be unrealistic. Maybe it would already help if the VR would have a human-like reaction time. That might help levelling out the disturbances with the suspension and the VR might not be overshooting.
I remember in the past asking PiBoSo if the basic PID in the VR has some sort of roll off implemented (can't see this in the parameters) as that could indeed help.
Notice that it may not be as simple as "just put a lowpass" and also that it's not granted it would help with tankslappers (but may help in cases where the VR is over-correcting too quickly, like when you lose the front and the VR locks the steering trying to catch up, making things worse).
Maybe that would also help with the issue but IMO this is a much more complicated and intruding way of fixing the problem because it changes how the VR behaves in general.
The two conditions that I have specified would ensure that the VR only behaves differently in the situation of heavy acceleration with the front wheel starting to "loose alignment". In this situation every normal rider would stop putting pressure on the handlebar and let the bike do its thing. This is exactly what the VR should do. No roll-off, filtering or any kind of advanced modification to the VR code, simply 100% deactivation until the front catches traction again.
If this does not improve the issue, then you can start getting into more advanced modifications to the VR.

We have two different ways of seeing the problem. You only see a problem with the tankslapper, I see a general behaviour by the VR which might cause the tankslappers in the extreme but also causes the otherwise unrealistic front wheel behaviour I described.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on November 28, 2017, 08:26:21 AM
If one watches a replay of normal riding (no tankslappers) in GPB from the front wheel/suspension cam, it can be seen that even on very smooth tracks the VR often makes many hasty and abrupt steering corrections, whereas if you watch real life footage, the front wheel is always being turned very very smooth. So in general I think it is safe to say that the VR in GPB is always "overshooting" in his reactions. Whereas in real life, keeping the front wheel rather constant and only applying slow and smooth changes in most cases levels out most disturbances to the front.

Consequently I think it would be preferable to tune the VR to more realistic behaviour in general and by that most likely also eliminate the tankslappers caused by the VR, as compared to adding code which would then solve a problem which otherwise would not exist anymore.
96
I have to agree with everything Vin is stating here. I also suspect the VR to be the main cause. If one watches a replay of normal riding (no tankslappers) in GPB from the front wheel/suspension cam, it can be seen that even on very smooth tracks the VR often makes many hasty and abrupt steering corrections, whereas if you watch real life footage, the front wheel is always being turned very very smooth. So in general I think it is safe to say that the VR in GPB is always "overshooting" in his reactions. Whereas in real life, keeping the front wheel rather constant and only applying slow and smooth changes in most cases levels out most disturbances to the front.

Speaking of that. I have always wonderes what the reaction time of the VR is. My assumption would be that it is 0.0s which obviously would be unrealistic. Maybe it would already help if the VR would have a human-like reaction time. That might help levelling out the disturbances with the suspension and the VR might not be overshooting. That a input-less bike is rather stable can always be seen if the rider is ejected and the bike goes on and on and on in GPB ; ) that might be a good indicator of how the bike would behave if the VR was taken out of the equation.

Quote from: vini97 on November 23, 2017, 11:47:49 PM
2 A misaligned front wheel by itself does not create tankslappers in GP Bikes as long as there is no abrupt weight transfer to it, which is realistic. I have no replay to demonstrate that but I can assure you that in those rare situations where the VR keeps the wheel misaligned for a bit, it always skipped for a meters and smoothly realigned itself upon coming into contact with the track again.
True. I spent a lot of time with the Supermoto in MXB lately and there it can be seen that if you wheely slightly the misaligned front works pretty realistically and does not cause any disturbances to the front. It might be connected to the stability helper in MXB though?
97
Support / Re: New Rider 3d model
November 16, 2017, 08:20:30 AM
Looking very good!
98
Off Topic / Re: [SPOILERS] MotoGP 2017
November 13, 2017, 04:31:40 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on November 13, 2017, 12:39:49 PM
I think he's spot on: the fact he crashes a lot just shows a constant willingness to reach and exceed the limit. I can't see anybody else doing this these days.
Exactly. MM has two different mindsets. One is the one that is constantly trying to reach the limit and to just be as fucking fast as possible. That is why he crashes so often in practices and qualifyings. But Marquez has also developed into a guy that can drive with his head, which he often shows in races. That is why he does not crash more often than the other championship contenders. Crashes in races 2017: Maq (2), Dov (2)*, Vin (2), Ros (2), Ped (2) (*Dov was crashed by A.Espargaro in Argentina, so really only 1 crash caused by him in races).

But again, in practices he is pretty much really looking for the limit and is willing to go beyond it. In QP2 in Valencia he crashed on the first fast lap of his second stint (if I remember correctly). He had talked with his crew chief about the tyres not being at perfect temperatures in the first right-hander after several left turns but he decided to push anyways and try it. He did and crashed : ) but still, such a crash provides him with very good information on the grip-limit, especially for the first laps in the race. As for his luck to not get injured: I agree that there is always a chance and to some degree it is luck ofc. But he crashes 90% via lowsiders whilst over-braking which is not that injury-prone. And I assume, if one crashes on such a regular basis one just becomes a cat and knows how to avoid injuries. Proof is that Sam Lowes also does not get hurt  :P.

On a sidenote: Yamaha factory decided on short notice to use the 2016 bike for the race. I think they have some sleepless nights until March 2018  ;)
99
Suggestions and wishlist / Re: Rider weight!
October 12, 2017, 08:16:51 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 12, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: vini97 on October 12, 2017, 04:37:49 PM
Marquez has a much stronger build and he can generate the necessary tyre temperature with his extreme riding style. He is also taller which gives him more leverage.
Extreme riding style in the rain ?!

Quote from: vini97 on October 12, 2017, 04:37:49 PM
Gaining 5kg of muscles when you're only 51kg and already a pro athlete (past your prime) cannot be achieved easily, at least not without illegal tricks.
No illegal trick, it's very, very doable.
If we take it literally (gaining 10% of your body weight in lean muscle mass, no fat) then I have to say it is a very hard feat to achieve without PED's, unless the person trying to achieve the feat is a couch potato or a skinny 14 year old. But if you are in your 30s and already well trained, it is hard to achieve. Believe me, I have done it and it took me over 2 years. But it would probably be sufficient, if he gained 5% in muscle mass and 5% in body fat, in that ratio it would still be reasonably active mass. But as mentioned before, without the height it would only be of marginal help.

And concerning the riding style in rain, for me it is clear (like mentioned before) that with more height you can put more strain on the tyres with less effort. That relation obviously is not linear, which probably is why there are other relatively small riders that do ok in the rain or are even great like Marquez. Dani obviously seems to be under the threshold. For Marquez his aggressive riding style (of course less aggressive in the rain, but still more agressive than other riders in the rain) seems to be plus in terms of tyre temperatures. That is also why Marquez is one of the few riders who uses the hard compound more often than others, because he gets it into the working temperature window when others cannot. And it also seems to be more than a coincidence that taller riders like Baz, Redding, Miller, Rossi are especially good in the rain.
100
Suggestions and wishlist / Re: Rider weight!
October 12, 2017, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 12, 2017, 10:56:21 AM
Quote from: Serge Dagher on October 12, 2017, 10:48:32 AM
Max does your nickname mean that you have a honda hornet?

...and back to the suggestion part of this topic, so would it make sense to have an option in the game to choose rider weight and height(with certain limitations to the parameters allowed)?
[...]

Concerning the suggestion: it's probably very easy to implement but (personally) I think it doesn't bring anything worth.
Definitely agree. The suspension and especially the tyre physics in GPB are not refined enough at the moment (I know Piboso is trying, but still it is the truth). At the moment in GPB you can go to the track with the Murasama without TC and you can pretty much attack from corner 1 on without having to worry about warming the tyres... that says enough.
101
Suggestions and wishlist / Re: Rider weight!
October 12, 2017, 08:33:39 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 12, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
By the way, gaining 10cm is not possible of course, but gaining 8kg is really doable. I guess he could easily do that if that was an advantage *overall*.
But of course if it only brings an advantage in rainy races and a disadvantage in dry ones, the decision is quickly taken.
Isn't that confirmed by the article you linked ? (they have added weight for wet races but definitely not for dry ones).
To be honest, I wouldn't be too surprised if Dani decided to go on a Donut diet  ;D Just kidding, if he would only gain weight he would probably sacrifice his stamina and conditioning. He would need to be lifting weights heavily in order to gain mass overall and not only around his belly which would not help center-of-gravity-wise (or should I say center-of-gravy-wise :P) And he would still lack the height, so it would only be of marginal benefit anyhow. And as you said, it would also only benefit him for the the few cold/wet races. It would be interesting though to see where he would stand championship-wise without those cold/wet races where he is struggling. He could be more of a danger then, so maybe he will consider one of those bone-stretching operations (http://images.gizmag.com/inline/bone-3.jpg) and then go on steroids to gain weight and we might have another Marquez on our hands :P

Concerning the additional weight experiments, I could not really understand what Pedrosa meant with "to the minimum of the tyre".
"We put weight on the bike today from warm-up to the race, to simulate [that] I was heavier, but you need to go to the minimum of the tyre," added Pedrosa.

The english of those spanish riders (and of the italian also) is mostly bad, or if he was giving this interview in Spanish then it was poorly translated. Anyhow, it seems as they added the weight to the bike, so that may not be the most useful way.

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 12, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
Quote from: Stout Johnson on October 12, 2017, 07:45:20 AM
It is not 'spot on' as it does not take weather conditions into account. Mind you, I was talking about Dani having problems under certain weather conditions with the recent Michelin tires. So your article does not bear much relevance (in addition to its poor use of statistical methods).
Come on man, it was meant to be readable by the average biker :)
Not so sure about that, the whole 'analysis' in that article seems to be really really dilettanteish. I may be overly sensitive in that aspect though (I specialized in statistics during my studies). ;)
102
Suggestions and wishlist / Re: Rider weight!
October 12, 2017, 07:45:20 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 11, 2017, 06:24:10 PM
A bit old, but spot on the discussion: https://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/04/13/number_crunching_how_much_of_a_factor_is.html
It is not 'spot on' as it does not take weather conditions into account. Mind you, I was talking about Dani having problems under certain weather conditions with the recent Michelin tires. So your article does not bear much relevance (in addition to its poor use of statistical methods).

Quote from: HornetMaX on October 12, 2017, 06:31:51 AM
Quote from: Serge Dagher on October 12, 2017, 04:01:55 AM
...maybe next year when they are back at lusail circuit I'll ask dani what's his opinion about adding 10kg ballast! 😆😆😆😆
I guess a polite "thanks but no thanks" will be the answer.
And I guess if you ask Marc or Vale if they'd like to have some 10kg less on them (like an ultra light suit+helmet+boots) they'd be ready to pay big money for that.
I totally agree with Marc and Vale, they try to be light for sure. But that is because they are not in danger of hitting 51kg like Pedrosa. ; ) I bet if Pedrosa could gain 10cm and 8kg he would gladly take it. You always have to keep in mind it is not only the weight but also the height that is an advantage in bad weather conditions. Guys like Redding, Rossi and Baz can change the center of gravity of a bike considerably just by sticking their long legs out and moving their upper body a bit to the inside. Pedrosa would need a complete hanging-off to generate similar weight changes. And that is not easy to do in rainy weather conditions.

In case you misunderstood, the argument raised is not that Dani in general is at a disadvantage (it could be argued that he is having an advantage, especially in hot weather). The argument is that in cold and rainy conditions he is struggling to get the tires warm enough (the current Michelin seem to be especially hard to get there in cold conditions).

I found an article where Dani himself relates to the matter.
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/pedrosa-explains-root-cause-of-nightmare-misano-race-951708/
103
Suggestions and wishlist / Re: Rider weight!
October 11, 2017, 08:04:14 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on October 11, 2017, 07:06:27 AM
I'm really not sure about that. Only place where I've heard weight/height may matter is at start (as you can move the cog more fwd). Even that is probably marginal.
On the other hand, if you are 10kg less that may well count overall.
Pedrosa this year repeatedly had problems with too low tire temperatures when track and environment temperatures where too low. He did not get the tires in a working temp window. That is why he has struggled in cold and wet races this year (e.g. Assen, Misano). I cannot remember him having problems in that respect with the Bridgestone tires, so maybe this is something related to the Michelins. But in cold conditions Dani seems to have a disadvantage with his weight. On the other hand in very hot races he seemed to have an advantage as he seemed to manage tires very well, which may be in part to his soft and fluid riding style compared to Marquez, but also to his weight.
104
General Discussion / Re: Ride 2
September 29, 2017, 05:59:28 AM
Quote from: Davide74 on September 28, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
:o ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oef8gA3A7jY&feature=youtu.be
Well at first glance the physics do not look that arcadey anymore, looks decent. What are your impressions on that physics mod Davide?
105
Quote from: h106frp on September 27, 2017, 06:11:22 PM
It is possible to define a front tyre that slides under very heavy braking and gives that classis 'wash out'
That's what I miss in the default GPB bikes. It is really hard to have a front washout at all in GPB. It is the most common cause for crashes in real life bike racing, but it's almost impossible to lose your front on the brake in GPB (talking default bikes). For me the default bikes from Piboso have to have realistic bike and tyre physics. Piboso's bikes should give a reference of the physics. Imo, the mod bikes should not be there to make up for lack of realistic physics...