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August 22, 2019, 05:39:01 am

News:

World Racing Series beta14 available! :)


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Topics - Myst1cPrun3

1
Suggestions and wishlist / Audible Rider Aids
August 21, 2019, 08:47:33 pm
Not sure exactly what is possible in GPB at the minute, so it may be a question for moddders as much as Piboso, but would it be possible to implement an option for 'Audible Aids'?

Most modern bikes use modified engine notes so allow the rider to know when he/she is hitting the tc engegement limit.

Would be so cool to have in gpb as the noise is pretty cool, and due to limitations in GPB being a computer program, and not giving the same 'tactile feedback' you get on a real bike, or even in some car sims with wheels, this could be a neat feature to help riders know just where the limit is.

Oh, did I mention the noise is cool too?  ;)

Here is a vid of the Hp4 race, (not me, and I take no credit for any of it), but you can clearly hear the noise on exit of some corners. (you may need headphones to hear it clearly)

2
It's only a small point, but it would be cool for me if we could see everyone's Pitboards as we crossed the line, similar to real life.

Painting custom Pitboards skins similar to bike/rider skins would also be cool, having our own logos on there for all to see.

Another little feature would be the ability to see custom info, like if we're riding in a group, and how many are in it, and stuff like that.

I'm not sure what is possible in GPB at the minute in the files, and I'm not sure what the engine could support, but it'd just be a little bit of icing on the cake so to speak, and the crew hanging it out having animations would be a little bonus on top of this as well.






The f1 games do the pit board thing now and it's a really cool effect all being lined up.

3
Tracks / Release: Suzuka Circuit - 8 Hours Layout
August 14, 2019, 08:23:39 pm




Release version 0.2

!!! Download Link !!!   https://mega.nz/#!8XgX1YaQ!WU-a7rHiRDKiBr_4Yc_pMwOzFdGq7wcpaqtCItCsyR0

A very early version, that I'm fiddling with, still various changes to make.


Notes:

Purely a visual update at the minute, has most of the cones and bales of the real version, altering the layout.

OBJ folder is mostly the same as what is required for some tracks made by Javiliyors, however there are a few changes, so THIS version is needed. (Other tracks aren't affected).

Only change is that the hay bales, now have a collide-able hit-box, meaning you can no longer clip through them, and hitting them will bring you off.
I elected to do this as the plastic barriers, are a little unsightly, and aren't used at the real course.
However I still needed something to give a penalty for short cutting, and this was the best, most realistic option both visually and in terms of recreating the course.

Main Points:

- Pitlane

1. Blue cones in pit lane are where the speed limit will start and end.

2. The orange cones at pit exit denote a practice start area.

3. There are 2 optional pit entries, one on the exit of 130r, and one exiting out of the final corner. I elected to do this as while the 130R one is the realistic one, it can be a bit fiddly with GP Bikes' current low speed handling model, and as a result I left the other one in. Both are denoted by single orange cones on either side, and its up to any event organiser which one is going to be used.

- Course

1. The course has static Marshals around the course, although their positions will be changed in a later release.

2. There is now an accurate chicane on the right sweeper after the hairpin (200R)

3. The last chicane (The 'Hitachi Automotive Systems Chicane) has been changed to utilise the motorcycle version.

4. The last chicane has cones on corner approach counting down from 4 orange cones to 1 orange cone. These are placed roughly at equal intervals and while are not on the real world course they provide braking markers.

5. The last chicane also has orange cones on the apexes. These again don't exist in the real world (They're bollards IRL but they aren't TrackED objects and I CBA making them LOL). They aid visualising the entry when in first person modes/VR as its blind.

- Not Complete/To Come soon:

1. Flaggers. These were placed however don't seem to appear in game. Currently Investigating.

2. Timing. At the minute this is a pure visual change, and as a result riding the other chicanes counts as a cut track, so the lap counts/timing doesn't work. Currently Creating a new center-line with checkpoints to amend this.

3. Replay Cameras. A new center-line may mean new replay cameras.

4. New Pit-lane params, to accommodate the speed limit areas.

5. New Grid, debating the possibility of a line start down the pit wall as opposed to a standard grid layout, similar to the pic above. Currently how well it can be implemented and if it is indeed possible.



Hope you enjoy, and I will try to keep updating this to get it up to working standards, although if anyone has any advice as I'm fairly new at this sort of thing, feel free to make suggestions.
4
Racing / Championship: 500cc Grand Prix
August 09, 2019, 12:04:53 am

Following the releases from Javiliyors of the new GP500 modpack, I thought I'd try and host a championship.

I've tried to do this before, but I've never really found any machines that I'd like to host, or that got a decent amount of interest with the community.

As the Mod is currently in the 'Beta' Phase, the championship won't be going ahead until all the content is added and the Mod completed, and that is when I'll open entries.

Here is a provisional Calendar and Race Length (50% of original Length) (Subject to Change, no dates as of yet):

CALENDARS:

PRE_SEASON TEST

- Test 1
- Pre_Season Test EspaƱa
- Cheste V1.2_DS
- Test Days (Sat + Sun)
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Test 2
- Pre_Season Test of Portugal
- Estoril.pkz
- Test Day (Sat + Sun)
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Final Test 3
- Pre_Season Test of Austria
- Salzburg. zip
- Test Day (Sat + Sun)
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

Racing Calendar

- Japanese Motorcycle Grand Prix     
- Suzuka         
- 10 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#!8VsHyQgR!AZa5YuIpcDi_pNXJyYF2KDD8AmTzCfENlaFX7BAX2dg
           
- Malaysian Motorcycle Grand Prix   
- Johor V1.0.rar         
- 15 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Spanish Motorcycle Grand Prix     
- Jerez v0.9 (As its period styled)         
- 13 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Italian Motorcycle Grand Prix     
- Mugello v1.0DS       
- 11 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- French Motorcycle Grand Prix       
- Paul Ricard v0.96   
- 15 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Madrid Motorcycle Grand Prix       
- Jarama v1.0_DS       
- 15 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Dutch TT                           
- TT Assen v1.3         
- 10 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- British Motorcycle Grand Prix     
- Donnington Park GP_NDS
- 15 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- German Motorcycle Grand Prix       
- Sachsenring NC v1.0   
- 16 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Czech Motorcycle Grand Prix       
- Brno V1.1_DS           
- 11 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- City Of Imola Motorcycle Grand Prix
- Imola 2018_No_Chicane_v1.0_DS         
- 12 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Catalan Motorcycle Grand Prix     
- Montmelo Classic_v1.0_DS     
- 12 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

- Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix   
- Phillip Island 
- 14 Laps - Download
- N/A Default 'Victoria' Track

- Argentine Motorcycle Grand Prix   
- Buenos Aires GP v1.0_DS   
- 14 Laps
- Download - https://mega.nz/#F!EkUj0LxB!QTr7lzLpllCca2PW0-gUog!RttkUIzC

POINTS ALLOCATION

Postion : Points

1st : 10pts

2nd :  8pts

3rd :  6pts

4th :  5pts

5th :  4pts

6th :  3pts

7th :  2pts

8th :  1pts


More info Once Entries Open
5
Tracks / Different Track Layouts
August 01, 2019, 09:49:35 am
Just a quick one. I've been working on a different layout for the Suzuka track and I was wondering how I could get to be an addition, in the original track folder.

Some tracks have one main file but several additional Layouts in them so I was wondering how to do this with Suzuka.

Presuming it's a Tracked thing?
6
Tracks / Coming Soon: Updated 8-Hour Suzuka Layout
July 31, 2019, 11:14:50 pm
Due to the 8 hours of Suzuka just happening, I had a hankering for some endurance rides, so I hopped on the Street GSXR (Which is not a street bike at all but an endurance machine), and Loaded up Suzuka.

One pit exit later, I shut down Suzuka, as the track textures where as white as snow, and in VR, it was, well, awkward.

After trawling through the GPB forums, I finally found an updated version of the pre-existing Suzuka, and all was well. Mostly.

Link to base track: https://mega.nz/#!8VsHyQgR!AZa5YuIpcDi_pNXJyYF2KDD8AmTzCfENlaFX7BAX2dg

The track is of quite a high quality and very fun to use.

However the 'Simulation Nitpicker' Hat was on, and I very quickly noticed the real 8 Hour Race was using a slight different layout to the one in GPB, which seems to have the 'Car' layout, despite the Suzuka 8 Hours advertising on the side of the track.

So I fired up TrackED, and Decided to see if I could have a fiddle in re-arranging the layout and making it closer to the real world version.

I was successful for the most part, and the course is much more ride-able now. Just got some final touches to add, and hoping for an updated release this weekend, providing I can find the original creator/the person who did the conversion, and get their permission for a release. (And providing you guys actually want the release, however at the minute its serving more of a lesson for me in whats possible in TrackED)

Changelog:

  • Added Marshals to all Relevant areas (More to come, With flag Marshals)
  • Added some Cones to pit entries, Denoting Speed Limit zones
  • Added Real world pit entry
  • Added Some Hay bales to the Hairpin Gravel Trap
  • Added Motorcycle Chicane On corner '200R'
  • Added Haybale Runnoffs chicane in corner '200R'
  • Added Motorcycle Chicane at final turns, and added cones to aid entry visuals (Mainly for first person/VR Riders)


Here are a few Screen-Shots showing some of these early stage changes:











7
Suggestions and wishlist / More Realistic Crashes
July 22, 2019, 06:54:47 am
Having just seen a 'ragdoll' topic in this suggestions topic, it got me thinking about more Realistic crashes in general. (not necessarily damage just physics wise)

For instance the bikes have a tendency to flip out when dropped, especially in the wet, having realistic physics for that would be awesome.

As for the rider, a realistic ragdoll animation, instead of the facepalm would be so much better I have to agree.

One other thing regarding the rider would be that in the first person cameras, when you crash you stay in the first person cameras, and roll/bounce with your ragdolling dude. (similar to crashing a bike in gta first person mode)
8
OK it's not so much as a solution, but seemingly an example...

The 2014 Street gsxr 1000. The endurance bike.

Use that, with a 'Disengage Max Torque' value of 650, and thats as close as GPB has been to a seamless shift.

So for those developing Grand Prix Machines with a seamless box, (moddders and piboso alike) I recommend trying this GSXR out first and see how that box is modelled, at least until seamless shifts are in GPB
9
Support / Crashes when saving a replay in VR
July 12, 2019, 12:45:40 pm
My sim has started crashing when saving replays in VR.

I do the laps I'm VR then I want to save the replay and launch GPB in non vr mode to record the replays.

Works fine usually, however with the new 500s, it crashes. After talking with Javi it seems to be a sim issue, as others have these issues?

10
Mods / Release: M2 2017/2019 Onboard Camera Set
July 08, 2019, 09:16:41 pm
My first on-board Camera Modifications, which works for both the 2017 and 2019 M2 variants.

Link:

https://mega.nz/#!RTZV3aKb!hNxJhYPFlsg1U_x6iGkaTxkj2jv8_Ke4kuZTAs1MyHU

Used the default cameras and davide's camera fix - Found Here - https://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=6497.0 - as a base, I modified most of them to my preferences to make a new set.

This set includes both Gyro and Non Gyro cameras for Tank and Tail Cams (I prefer the static cams but that isn't to everyone's taste so I included both.
I went for a realism style, so the cameras are hopefully placed roughly where a go-pro could be placed on a real machine.

Just paste the file into the schwaben m2 base folder (Be sure to back up your existing File though)




- Examples -


Tail Cam:





Tail Cam Gyro:





Tank Cam:





Tank Cam Gyro:





Nose Cam:





Front Wheel:





Rear Wheel:





Rear Wheel Gyro:





Dash:





Throttle:










11
I've recently started running Enna Pergusa as a practice track, as it focuses on all the areas I have been weakest at. (Hard Braking and Line Accuracy)

You really have to brake as late as possible, and 'thread the needle' very accurately through most of the turns to get it right, and most of them lead onto a large straight so you really notice any loss of pace on exits too.

For me its a good track to learn the limits of a bike, and understand GPB's braking characteristics a little more.
Because of its difficulty to 100% maximise its really satisfying to get right.

Previously I've not been a big fan of the 2014 STK 1000, as I felt it was dated, and I couldn't understand its behaviour on the brakes/turn in, which resulted in some god awful setup changes.

I feel like I've made some inroads into using the bike, and actually began to enjoy it a little more after a session on Enna P.

This got me thinking as to what track/bike combos to people use to hotlap in, or what their fav bike track combos are?

As I've just said I love Enna, and I should use it more often, and I do love the Yamaha cup Bikes, (R3 (while its a WSSP 300 denotation in GPB there aren't any more so I guess its a Yamaha Cup Machine), R6, and R1, and I quite like the new 250 Single Remake.



Wheelie Fun Track



Sliding into next week OK I'll stop



Enna's airtime is a bonus too...
12
Support / Not Launching with correct Profile
July 05, 2019, 08:35:45 pm
My GP Bikes has all of a sudden started creating a new profile instead of launching with my previous one, which is still there in the folder in full.

How do I get GPB to default to the Profile instead of making a new one?
13
Bikes / 3D Models: Is this viable?
July 03, 2019, 08:15:22 pm
Little curious, found a nice site that has a tonne of downloadable 3d engines. Wondering if its viable to use one from here in a bike or not?

(To put it into context I think there's every CBR 600 engine from about 1995 LOL)

Here's the site for anyone interested:

https://www.3dcadbrowser.com/3dmodels.aspx?download=engine&page=1
14
Can we please get point to point race support?

For hill climbs etc.

Found a vid on YT recommended (omg it's doing something right) and it got me all riled up, the enthusiastic frenchies did

Not shy are they :o

15
Bug Reports / Oculus VR Flicker Bug
June 29, 2019, 07:44:25 pm
I've been unable to really use GP Bikes since the Oculus Update a few months ago due to flicker in the headset.
It does not occur in other games however, regardless of them being updated or not so its a pure GP Bikes issue.
My drivers and hardware are up to date, and I'm running the latest Oculus Rift. (Believe its CV1)

This one:




I've been trying to fix this, including changing pretty much any In game settings, but am at a complete loss.


It happens to some degree on all bikes/tracks, but on the better ones its just at the bottom of the headset and really isn't a big deal. I'd still like it gone all together mind you.

The stock Victoria cicruit + M2 also do this, so its not a MOD thing to my knowledge, but is worst on mods, particularly the otherwise high quality Javiliyors tracks.

Its at its worst on Jerez, which is a shame as that's the track I've been wanting to use the most recently.

And by at its worst, its Literally unplayable in VR.

Any advice would be helpful.

Here are a few Screenshots of whats happening, and I should point out this IS visible in VR and its not a very nice experience.







I've posted this in several topics as I'm not sure which one it should go under. Admin can Delete as appropriate
16
Off Topic / TT IoM 2: Announced
June 15, 2019, 10:36:38 pm
Sooooo. Kylotonn announced a few weeks ago a sequel to the 'controversial' TT Isle of Man 'Ride in the Hedge' (as I call it as that seems to be all I can do), coming next year. (2020)

Thoughts?

My thought is that it could be good, or it could be a rehash of the first game with updated liveries. Based off the first game I honestly don't know what to expect from them.

What I do know is that Kylotonn are dedicated to becoming a big player in the Racing Sim/Game market, and have really been pushing the new WRC games 'simlike' qualities.

I also know that they've been trying to introduce VR to their Racing games, and mixed with the TT game, which had a VERY high quality representation of the TT course, could be amazing.

TBH, the main feature would be the handling. It needs to be improved, which again they've been focusing on massively in the WRC games, (Even getting pro rally drivers to develop most of the handling, not just provide feedback on a few areas) so I can't see any reason as to why they couldn't do this with the TT game.
Whether they will or not, well, that's a different kettle of fish but still.

Curious to see how this is going to be received, launching a new full price TT game, especially considering the lack of updates and developer feedback to the original.

As you can see from their posts about their new games, 'authenticity' seems to be a big push. Whether that's realism or not IDK, I hope it is but still its all in the open as of yet.

17
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 26, 2019, 09:25:21 pmThis is something that has become quite clear to me from when I started in GPB, in that 'disabling' lean help doesn't entirely turn it off.

When I un-check the box for lean help, I would like it to allow me to lean forever effectively, at any point.

This would improve braking no-end, as it would make lines slightly more realistic, and trail braking would require more skill.

At the minute, you can apply pretty much 100% braking force right to the apex, as the rider won't tip the bike further than the grip allows.

This means that braking is somewhat backwards in input, as on most bikes, it is possible to apply MORE braking force leant over than it is when travelling in a straight line, where the bike tends to stoppie.

As a result applying light brake initially and more as you get to the apex and turn in, is the way to go in GPB, but removing the lean cap, and thus making the actual person control how much braking and to control how far to lean at the same time would be much more realistic.

It would increase the amount of front end crashes, as I suspect it would take people a while to get used to how far to go, but overall I feel it would be a step in the right direction, as GBP is supposed to be a simulation, and real bikes don't have stabilisers upon turn in. Hell, even the HIGHLY unrealistic Milestone games allow a full range of lean regardless of throttle/brake inputs. (The results/consequences of doing this may not be realistic but the fact its not prevented by an unseen force is a bonus)

I would personally go as far as removing the max lean limit all together, and make it possible to completely lean off the edge of the tyre. I understand this is a more awkward thing to do, as people have different steering setups, but removing the initial brake/lean help is a MUST for me.

If I was making these changes I would add these max lean 'stabilisers' into the 'lean help' aids option, and potentially make them more strict, (can't lean as far when selected) to result in people who have it selected going slower, thus encouraging them to 'turn it off'

While I would like it to be globally fixed in the next Beta, at the minute I would settle for a line of code to override this in the 'rider.cfg. files, although this code would have to be made redundant if it was to be introduced fully later on, as people would just enable it in the code and go much quicker.

Pls listen PIB


Quote from: PiBoSo on February 11, 2019, 05:00:48 pmJust to get into Piboso's Alerts Inbox





Quote from: Hawk on May 26, 2019, 10:09:45 pmIf you take the riding aids off, then IF the bike physics are correct then you should be able to wash the front end away if you apply the front brake too much. But then with modern bikes being mainly electronically controlled it may well be that they can apply full force on the front brakes without the front end washing away due to the ECU not allowing the front wheel to break grip while braking?
I'm not an aficionado on modern electronically controlled 4 stroke racing bikes, I can't stand them; I think they are an abomination to the sport, so I'm not sure if the electronics extend to controlling the front end traction-control or not? Maybe someone can enlighten me on that matter. :) 





Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 26, 2019, 10:36:00 pmIts definitely not electronics, as every bike does it, even those without any, such as the GP250's and GP500's. I also run with no aids, aside from the 'automatic tyre change option', as keep having to change your tyres manually isn't much help in an offline session.

Its definitely GPB physics related from my testing, although whether bike modders can disable it in their bikes is another story, but even Pibs M2 bike does this.

Its just like there's a block when turning in on the brakes, not quite preventing me from losing the front, as I can still crash, but definitely preventing me from leaning over fully, and making corner entry easier.

If I go beyond the maximum lean value, and then squeeze the front brake to slow down, even a little, I lose the front. Its when I'm approaching that value when the 'issue' arises.

As someone whose got more experience on GPB than a real world bike, even I can see that's not how it should work.

I'll try to make a video highlighting it as I'm not sure I'm explaining it very well XD

As for electronics controlling the front, from what research I've done, teh front is more controlled by ABS, which wouldn't prevent leaning over on the brakes. Most high end - modern superbike's (Panigale's, RSV4 Factories, S1000rr's etc) tend to run 'active suspension', where the ECU rapidly adjusts the Damping's to maintain optimum cornering stuff, (not sure what the term is on a bike, in a car its to corner level and flat, so I'm assuming its more stability and load on a bike), but again, this wouldn't prevent you from leaning on the brakes. Or at least that's how I interpret it, there are probably a load more intricacies into it but that's just how I've come to see it.

While the pic below is a 1:12 scale model, the plugs which are visible on the forks are the wires which go to the ECU for the adaptive controls:







Quote from: Vini on May 27, 2019, 04:46:08 pmYour proposal for an alternative (non-Direct-Steer) steering mode with absolute lean angle input is valid but not any more valid than the current default steering. Both do not resemble real life motorcycle steering and both are a compromise between realism and usability.
Both have their own subjective advantages: The fact that you cannot fully turn in at max brake (which is realistic) and the ability of standing the bike up with the brake vs. full control over lean angle at any time.
Anyway, I think it would still be good to give us the option because it could work well with certain controllers.







Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 27, 2019, 05:18:56 pmThis isn't just evident on the brakes, (That was the easiest one to use as an example, but I feel using it has got the entire thread of this topic lost in translation), it is evident when simply going around a turn, the rider will only lean so far, and its impossible to lean further.

THAT is what I'd like to see changed, removing the Maximum Possible Lean, and making it user controlled, or at least part of the 'Lean Assist' option.
As for everyone having different steering inputs, I completely understand that, hence why it should have its own option like you said, however there are several games that don't have a 'Max Lean Value' that utilise game-pads (hence making this a viable 'Default' steering option.)

The one that springs immediately to mind is the 'Suzuki TT Superbike' Game series by Jester on the PS2.
You could lean all the way over and fall off the inside of the tyre if you weren't careful.
This is because it used rider weight to steer the bikes, rather than just steering the bikes, similar to what GPB is trying to do.
So you'd move the joystick fully to whichever way you want to go, and then release it a little bit and hold it there, making minor corrections, to keep it at a constant lean angle, rather than just ramming the stick over fully and relying on the game engine to do the calculations and not crash you.

The reason I included Braking in the original post, as it would make trail braking a little more difficult, as you wouldn't be able to just ram the stick over, and be relatively safe, (Yes I know you can still crash) like you can now, and would do a decent job of covering the weird braking inputs that are possible, but those are for a different thread at a different time.

In other words, it would make it a little more about skill and judgement rather than invisible assists that aren't able to be turned off in the menus.

(Riding in the wet is another example of this 'Max Lean Assist', as it prevents me from going all the way over. (Yes, again, I know you WOULDN'T in the real world, but its not that you COULDN'T in the real world. (You'd crash at a certain point mind you, but GPB prevents this. Its only at camber changes, that result in the Max value becoming less than what your already at, that you crash.) The MG hairpin on Victoria is a good example of camber changes impacting the 'max lean value', and causing a crash, as you can lean fully on the approach, knee down etc, but the minute you hit the apex and it flattens out, the 'Max Lean Value' that would cause a crash is reduced to less than what was achieved on approach, so the front washes out.
The fact braking affects the 'Max Lean Value' is what I was trying to get at, the ability to use this to apply more brake than you could in a straight line is a side effect that could be changed with the removal of the 'Max Lean Value')



18
Following my other thread about the Max-Lean inputs getting a bit clogged up with braking for one reason or another, I decided to make a separate thread for those issues and do a little bit of housekeeping:

Quote from: Vini on May 27, 2019, 10:52:51 amI strongly disagree with the points you make about braking, though. You can definitely lock up the front and if you brake at the limit, the brake inputs will look very realistic (close to 100% initially and then trailing off). If your inputs are backwards, then you are not consistently at the balance point when the bike is upright.
Also, the way braking and lean input currently interact makes a lot of sense for me because in real life if you brake while in a corner, the bike will stand up by itself. This is exactly what happens at the moment in GP Bikes and the front brake is essential in that way to finetune your line into a corner.

Edit: Don't get this the wrong way but I think you should just work more on your trail braking and you'll see that it will get more realistic the closer you get to the limit. On your COTA lap for example it looks like you are never really loading the front into corners but instead roll into them with unnecessarily wide entries (first sector especially).



Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 27, 2019, 11:41:57 amI never said it was impossible to lose the front under braking, in fact I said it was more than possible, and I've done it may times.

As for what you've said, Its not when I'm in the corner its approaching the corner, as I can consistently apply more brakes when turning in, than I can when braking in a straight line.

Take the session I just did on the 500 at Javi's Spa, going into the left right left at the end of the back straight, (The chicane after the Eau-Rouge section), I can only apply around 75%-80% of brake without the bike pitching over the handlebars, however as I begin to turn in, and hit that Max -Lean buffer, I can then apply 100% brake all the way to the Apex, without looping the bike, or missing the apex. (Letting off just before to pull back and setup for the next 2 turns)

Its not a question of skill, or trail braking/rider competency.
Whichever way you look at it those inputs are backwards compared to real life.

As for the bike standing up under brakes, I can understand that, but my point regarding that is sure the bike will want to stand up, but its not impossible to lean while on the brakes it'll just be a little more difficult, which is hard to achieve in a game, so maybe slowing down the direction changes, or making the rider weight more imp active of this for those of us who use that separate control, that bits up to Pib.

My point is, there isn't an invisible external entity/force PREVENTING someone from leaning a bike over under brakes, and as a result there shouldn't be in GP Bikes if its set on being a Sim.
There is however a force/external entity that makes it harder to lean, but not impossible.

PS: As for my braking competency levels, I do tend to use a more '250' smoother style, which is great for low powered bikes, like the GP250s, or the WSSP 300s, and I was actually about there in the WSSP 300 championship that seems to have stopped. (Which is typical that I was actually about there speed wise and the championship stops lol.)
I was loading up the front perhaps more than it looks in the video, and into the Hairpins it was backing in, May put the 'Inputs' Hud on from the MaxHUD as it would be interesting to see. But I know the hairpin onto the straight I was at 100% brake lever travel right up to the Apex, but could only manage around 90% on the approach. Its one of the reasons why I tend to turn in early, as I can apply more braking that way.

EDIT: I was also using 20mm brake lever travel if I remember correctly, and possibly some different discs, due to the lack of feel GPB gives through controllers, so perhaps the braking on my MotoGP vids isn't really representative.
I will say as well my personal braking has gotten worse since moving to VR, and its something I do need to work on. (Pibs M2, (NOT the 2019 M2) was a hugely good bike to learn this on, and I pretty much halved my braking distances across most bikes after practicing on that.)


Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 27, 2019, 11:57:34 amFor me the fact that the Sim is preventing you from doing something bad is an Assist, so needs to be in the game as one, especially as you can do it (lean on the brakes) IRL. (Although as I've said, it may be harder)

At the end of the day however, rider skill, competency and every other external factor is irrelevant.

The simple facts are, it IS
Possible in GPB to consistently apply more braking force on turn in than it is when going in a straight line, (without crashing) regardless of speed, or anything else, including with all assists Off.
It is NOT possible to do this in real life (without crashing).

In GPB the 'sim' DOES prevent you from leaning over fully when on the brakes with all assists Off.
This does NOT happen in real life.

Whether these options are good practice, is irrelevant, as is who does them, their skill/speed and everyother factor.
As it's about what IS and ISNT possible, and whether it's 230mph, or 30mph, it doesn't matter, as it being POSSIBLE to  apply more brake leant over (without crashing) is just wrong

Quote from: Vini on May 27, 2019, 04:46:08 pmBut on top of that you seem to be indicating that there are fundamental physics issues with braking in GPB and this is not the case.
When using setups or bikes with less powerful brakes and when not riding at the bike's actual limit, it may appear like you described.
I can upload the brake inputs from my fastest laps and you'll see perfectly realistic, smooth inputs that peak when the bike is relatively upright and trail off to zero right at the apex with no transition visible from outside. In many instances you can see the rear wheel slightly hovering in the air or the front chattering, proving that the bike is consistently at max. deceleration. On the MotoGP bikes, I use 340HM carbon discs and 16mm leverage (100% gain) and there is only one place where I am ever at 100% brake and that is COTA turn 1 with the bike fully upright.
Yes, you can hold max. brake on some other bikes right until the apex but then you will never reach max. lean of the bike because the bike can't turn like that. Also, when leaning the bike up to a certain point you can actually brake marginally harder because the traction of the front is still good and the weight distribution and geometry is better, hence backing in the rear. But this is only works up to a certain lean angle, where continued brake intensity will begin hindering the bike's ability to turn, resulting in either running wide or locking the front.
Moreover, because it is easier to feel the limit of the front (vibration and visual feedback) than the exact balance point of the bike in GPB, one tends to get a lot closer to max. decel. when being at (slight) lean, making it seem like you can brake harder at more lean.

In your COTA MotoGP vid, I can see that you are not at the balance point when the bike is upright, then quickly back it in to feel the limit better and apply more brake (T1), keep that braking power relatively consistently but then drop it abruptly in order to get the bike to turn instead of trailing off smoothly all the way up to max. lean at the apex (T15/T11/T19), making you run wide.






Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on May 27, 2019, 05:18:56 pmThis thread, although it has turned into a 'Braking thread', was made to be more of a leaning thread, as GPB imposes a leaning limit where there shouldn't be. Only reason I brought up braking is because the 2 can be related, and are more often than not. If there's an issue with the brakes then that really should be somewhere else.

But what the hell, I'll continue anyway.

Off Topicness:


When I ride in GP Bikes, on the default setup of most machines, applying full brake lever travel will loop the bike over the handlebars, or lock the front, so therefore  I have to reduce my braking Input. (realistic)

However as I begin to turn in, this goes out the window so to speak, and all of a sudden I CAN apply full front brake leverage, without flipping the bike, or even pulling a stoppie. This becomes an issue, as it allows the braking force to be increased as you near the apex and turn in further, without any issues.

AGAIN, whether its the fastest way to do it in GP Bikes, is up for debate, and AGAIN, it doesn't matter how fast you go or how competent you are at riding, that is quite simply impossible in the real world without crashing.

This in itself isn't too big of an issue. Its when its 'mixed' with the original topic of this thread, and that's the invisible 'Maximum Lean Assist' that GPB forces us to use.

It IS possible to fully lean the bike over when on the brakes in the real world. You WILL Crash, and it may be harder and a little more difficult, due to forces etc, but it is possible however, in GPB it prevents you from 'over-leaning' completely.

From the testing I did the only explanation I can come up with is that GPB calculates crashes with the amount of lean applied, hence the 'Max Lean Assist', rather than a combination of brakes and lean. I feel that sorting this would also sort out a lot of the 'Un-explainable off throttle front enders' that people have been having with more frequency since the release of B15.
Could be way off with the last para but that's just how it seems




Quote from: Vini on May 27, 2019, 07:35:39 pmUse a more aggressive brake setup and you will see that your observation will not hold true.
Here is an example that shows that adding lean angle will not give you more braking power. You can clearly see that I had to reduce front brake in order to lean further without crashing.

19
This is something that has become quite clear to me from when I started in GPB, in that 'disabling' lean help doesn't entirely turn it off.

When I un-check the box for lean help, I would like it to allow me to lean forever effectively, at any point.

This would improve braking no-end, as it would make lines slightly more realistic, and trail braking would require more skill.

At the minute, you can apply pretty much 100% braking force right to the apex, as the rider won't tip the bike further than the grip allows.

This means that braking is somewhat backwards in input, as on most bikes, it is possible to apply MORE braking force leant over than it is when travelling in a straight line, where the bike tends to stoppie.

As a result applying light brake initially and more as you get to the apex and turn in, is the way to go in GPB, but removing the lean cap, and thus making the actual person control how much braking and to control how far to lean at the same time would be much more realistic.

It would increase the amount of front end crashes, as I suspect it would take people a while to get used to how far to go, but overall I feel it would be a step in the right direction, as GBP is supposed to be a simulation, and real bikes don't have stabilisers upon turn in. Hell, even the HIGHLY unrealistic Milestone games allow a full range of lean regardless of throttle/brake inputs. (The results/consequences of doing this may not be realistic but the fact its not prevented by an unseen force is a bonus)

I would personally go as far as removing the max lean limit all together, and make it possible to completely lean off the edge of the tyre. I understand this is a more awkward thing to do, as people have different steering setups, but removing the initial brake/lean help is a MUST for me.

If I was making these changes I would add these max lean 'stabilisers' into the 'lean help' aids option, and potentially make them more strict, (can't lean as far when selected) to result in people who have it selected going slower, thus encouraging them to 'turn it off'

While I would like it to be globally fixed in the next Beta, at the minute I would settle for a line of code to override this in the 'rider.cfg. files, although this code would have to be made redundant if it was to be introduced fully later on, as people would just enable it in the code and go much quicker.

Pls listen PIB


Quote from: PiBoSo on February 11, 2019, 05:00:48 pmJust to get into Piboso's Alerts Inbox
20
Support / GP500 paints not showing in VR?
May 26, 2019, 01:00:55 pm
I have been running VR for a good few months now, and I love it, however, upon trying the GP500 set, my paints only part show up in VR.

The fuel tank and front fairing are painted in the bikes base colours, yet the seat unit is painted in my skin. When viewing the replays, even in the VR window, the skin appears normal. Just wondering if its a bug in GPB or if I've renamed something in the skin incorrectly.

Skin is the NSR500 found here:

https://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=6572.0

Any advice would be appreciated, as while its not a big issue, it can be awkward, especially seeing as I want to use it for a video.