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I offered to make KRUSH a suit, and well, here it is - rider model 2

LINK: https://mega.nz/#!BCxxiIiC!RzmBhwTJ5T-U0ALLoXluh6IGDJfyuiQa_3aJOahEFlc

That WAS the TLDR
and its more entertaining than sun tzu

Upon re-reading that it doesn't seem very summed up lol sorry

[we're not advocating]

My Summed Up thoughts:

- Modding encryption would make it harder for new modders, so if this encryption tool were to be released it would have to come AFTER a complete de-crypted example bike, to allow a sort of base to follow for new modders.

Ideally this would come from Piboso Himself, but Matty seems to be fiddling with one. Not sure how far it is a long however

- An encryption tool would make it harder to steal other peoples data, and handling, but if a mod is done right, then the data is likely transferable anyway, so you'd end up with the same values, so encrypting them is pointless to that degree.... However the issue is when people don't even check.

For instance, BlackHearts BMW S1000rr in the WSBK pack shares a LOT of values in the CFG with my HP4 Race, as these are the real world values for the BMW's. We've hit such a point in the internet, and availability of resources that these values aren't even hard to come by, so for ANY modder, there is very little excuse for having un-realstic values, unless its a prototype, such as a GP Bike, or a silhouette such as a WSBK, which I'll get onto in a minute

(Off topic slightly: The WSBKS are so far removed from the Showroom bikes I consider them silhouettes rather than 'proddie' bikes (That being said, wheelbases, gear ratios, geometries etc must be the same according to the rules so the data Should be the same across all variants of that bike in the sim, regardless of author.)) 

- As I stated last time, I believe this 'tool' if its even a consideration, should be implemented on mods that are scratch built. For instance, as I stated earlier, a LOT of new mods, both tracks and bikes, are taken from, 'other' sources to some degree.

This itself presents a problem, as its hard to police.
Eagle Dynamics' method was presented as an option, however I don't believe this to be valid, as it for a competent modder, ripping without permission, from any source, such as alternate title or other Mod, would have no issue scratch building a mod, and then getting the encryption off piboso, and then using it on other MoDs that do not meet the standards set. And nothing could be done to stop this.

If this is the way to go, I believe the encryption would have to be done on Piboso's end. So sent the Un-Encrypted Mod to piboso and then get the encrypted mod back for public download. The issue comes in the amount of mods being made, and the fact pib seems busy enough, however this would give complete control over the content, meaning only the best scratch built mods could be encrypted, and ripped mods, in any way, would be a open for use and editing by anyone, as the modder did when the rip or copy - paste job happened. You've either got to fully do a mod, 3d model and all, for it to be encrypted, or not at all. As you can't complain when people change values on a Mod without permission where you yourself got the original content from another source without permission, and yes this includes anything I do as I'm not better than anyone and should be held to the same standards. (The only exception would be if proof could be provided to Piboso, or a trusted admin if he chooses, that permission from the original author was obtained for the rip/conversion)

- Its not a matter of being for or against this encryption, its a lot more grey than it seems, as I see a lot of comments from people wanting this who themselves use files from other sources. Why should they get to do that, and then encrypt the work as if its theirs? They shouldn't.


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I agree with Javi...... A rider tests a bike with changes and reports back how it is feeling and reacting to the devs, players don't need to know exactly what has been changed, that's the bikeMOD devs department, besides as I've stated above, 99% of players wouldn't have a clue what any changes mean anyway. So I just don't understand these excuses that keep cropping up against an encryption tool..... Just bordering on the lame excuse in my book considering we're not advocating that all modders must encrypt the files but only those that wish to; I just don't get the adversity to it all here? An encryption tool would provide solution to either side of the debate surely?

But I'm sure the modders who are anti-encryption will continue to provide you all with un-encrypted mods for people to study any changes if that's what some people want here? But testers are testers, they don't really need to know what's changed, they just need to report back how the bike is feeling & handling, that's all. If the testers were good at interpreting the physics data changes needed to get the bike handling properly then the devs would have them in the dev-team already, right.

If this anti-encryption attitude is simply a fear of not being able to learn how to mod a bike cause a lot of the files will be locked-off then don't be daft, you all know very well that this modding community likes to help newcomers to modding when we can...... So stop being drama queens! Anyone would think you were anti-Brexit/Pro EU supporters! Lol!    

I also am not providing excuses for not having it, I'm just imploring that people consider all angles, I mean the only 2 CAWS members that I see on the GP Bikes Discord are H and Matty. (not having a go or anything, and not having a discord is not a bad thing, just means there isn't a 'full picture') Also that is where the majority of new Mods are these days, resulting in the Forums being quiet, and as a result anyone who isn't active on the Discord is at a severe disadvantage when it comes to what is actually going on. As the discord is 10x more active than the forums, by modders, racers, and developers alike, so your view becomes more skewed to ripped content when only trawling through the forums.

As for the modding community being helpful, I can 100% agree on that, being someone who has only recently attempted the Art.
Matty, Javi, TomHWK, as well as a few others have helped me get, an all be it ripped bike, into GP Bikes (Was learning the process then I can eventually learn 3D modelling))

However, while the community is good, and helpful with this, I think it is not their place to be. It is up to the developer to provide the support for his game, which, as I have found out, there is a severe lack of resources to help with, and what resources there are aren't together so it takes 10x longer to do anything. Oh, and the tools could do with an update.

Basically, PIB needs to sort out the back end support for modders, before we start getting features like this. (Not saying I don't want it, that's important to note, as I think it should be available, just there are other steps that MUST be taken before it is implemented, for the survival and growth of GP Bikes)

As for how a rider tests a bike, players don't need to know exactly what has been changed, but I wouldn't go as far as saying 99% of players wouldn't understand these changes anyway. That's just gross ignorance on your part, after all, this is supposed to be a simulation, so a basic knowledge and understanding of handling and motorcycling operation is required. So for me changelogs, could be graphical, and handling only, not necessarily back-end stuff like exact numbers and stuff.

But I urge you to not be as arrogant as to say that no one understands. Or else there is no point you being part of a debate, if you're going to write anyone off who has a valid, factual opinion. Its a very 'You're wrong and I'm right now bog off' attitude, and it is a dangerous one to have.

As for the feeling of testing a bike, that is correct, you do determine, MOST of a bike's setup and handling of rider feel, but then the data is consolidated to confirm this. (I'd say about 75% rider feel then 25% data)

Now if I had to guess, most people here are playing on a gamepad, and do not have access to the full range of feeling that a motorcycle gives, as there is no 'Seat of the Pants' for most of us, therefore, sounds, minute vibration, which is un-official third party (and very good considering), and visual. This is NOWHERE near enough to make a mod based off, so the data has to be used.
However you seem to be ignoring this point in your posts, which leads me to believe, that you're just flitting through, finding points that support your opinion, and then disregarding anything else as wrong, or as you put it, LAME EXCUSES. That in itself is a dangerous, and arrogant thing to do, and highlights the core issues in society.

OH MY GOD, THIS CELEBRITY SAID VACCINES ARE DANGEROUS AND CAUSE AUTISM, AND ITS WHAT I BELIEVE SO ANYONE ELSE IS WRONG AND IT MUST BE TRUE

That is how it comes across to me. Look at all areas, and look at how it could be implemented in the best way, rather than just slapping something together and out the door, just because it was asked, GP Bikes has enough of that as it is. Looking at you Launch Control

nice one DD!

to add another point, it is quite difficult to give good feedback when you have no idea what was changed in the bike.
if you are going purely by feel then there will be tons of misunderstandings between modders and players/testers.

THIS IS PERHAPS THE KEY POINT IN THE ENTIRE THREAD LOL ^^

If you were a rider in real life, how would you give information to your engineers? Telling him that since the data is encrypted you cannot tell him that it has to change ... or will you transmit it for sensations?

You'd give feedback based off feeling, and then look at the data to confirm those feelings, or understand why the bike is doing what its doing. Either way you look at data.

The other issue with saying you should be giving mod feedback on feeling, is that this is GP Bikes... The only feelings 90% of us get are from a 3rd party plugin and involve a little controller vibrating. Not entirely conclusive enough if you ask me.
The guys on a steering wheel have a little more advantage, but even so, they don't get anywhere near enough feedback from the sim to be able to give anywhere close to accurate diagnostics.

The way to stop this would be to have a dedicated private testing group who you trust to use the non-encrypted mod, and who have a decent understanding of a motorcycles behaviour. Then encrypt it on a public release, if this is the way GPB is going.

Testing a development of my HP4 Race Mod

I was watching a replay of some of my riding, and noticed that in gyro cams, the bike gets louder when leaning one way than when leaning the other.

This is most noticeable in the 'tail gyro' cam as it is in the center of the machine on the L/R axis. I was wondering why this is, or even if its intentional, or if my pc is Glitching out?

Is it the mic of the imaginary go pro is on the right so it gets closer to the exhaust when leaning, and if so, is there a way to change this? As some bikes have left hand side exhausts and under-seat units so that shouldn't happen if that bit is correct. What is the reasoning for this difference in volume?

Thanks,
MPR

yes, if you join javis discord hes got new versions of the 500s and the rider skins to match.

bump

I created my first mod also helped a lot by taking as reference other great mods. Never did copy and paste

Well there we go..... A good example non-encrypted version for learning to mod would solve that solution and therefore no barrier for an encryption tool for those that want to use it..... Both sides of the debate happy now...... So, how's about an encryption tool Piboso?  

It's also a milestone ripped model like most

I can hear it screaming from here

The actual jump isn't an issue. Its actually very intuitive, and seems reasonable for landing and height behaviour, but it varies bike to bike, or perhaps Mod to mod.

but over all the actual jump/landing part seems sorted.

Just the approach really.

thats what makes u look bad, the fact u look at it and without even trying ur basically going 'yeah nah cadwell is impossible on gpbikes'

As h said, he gave me a version of cadwell, one which ive put over 400 laps on, on various machinery, by various people. Same result on all. As I said nothing to with skill.

As for making me look bad, I think the constant crashing does that for me

I have converted AC cadwell and tried it. The issues are with the 'S' bend uphill entry, at the speed you can wobble through it (so you cannot carry any speed) the mountain is no longer fun.

And I gave it Mystic to try out....

yep, and i still got it, and i still ride it. And i must say once again thanks for the 'early access' i guess IDK what to call it.

Its a high quality conversion, its just the approach and ramp on the mountain, not really the actual jump, gp bikes issue not a track issue.

GP Bikes seems to slide the rears over the ground and not have much grip on over 125cc. (Not spinning wheels just crabbing like the bearings are shot, which i guess gives a wobble sensation as h stated)

Its the same on other elevations too, try riding the wrong way around victoria and the run UP lukey heights behaves the same.