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https://motomatters.com/news/2010/10/28/settling_an_argument_casey_stoner_talks_.html
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/167194/1/stoner-i-went-back-to-two-year-old-electronics
Correction on my part: He ran with as little as possible, as the teams wouldn't let him get rid of them XD
He also says if there was no electronics Rossi would be winning again, so hes clearly lost it bless him.
As for what I said, I still stand by it. That's what the sport is today, and not necessarily my opinion BTW. Whether you agree with it or not, is a different story.
My opinion:
Using electronics, and the ability to successfully interpret data and make physical changes based off seemingly meaningless squiggles, has always interested me, and will continue to do so, which is why I am a fan of SOME electronics.
At the minute, I feel MotoGP is at a peak in terms of race quality, close racing, lap records going out the window most weekends, top speeds for each track being broken pretty much every year, lean angle records being smashed over and over again (Marquez hit 65 degrees at the Sachsenring, and it wasn't a save).
I do however think electronics are part of that, as due to the way they work, and the fact they're a control electronics package, (Magneti Marelli), everyone is fast at the same places, and all the lap times are close, which again is a good thing as a spectator, and spectacular to watch.
I also think that the electronics, while necessary to go fast, have gone a little too far with their interference. That's not to say we should get rid of it all together, (Even Rainey Ran with electronically adjustable fuel mapping to the end of his career, and I think honda experimented with TC in the late 90's but the processing power wasn't there yet or something, dont quote me on the last one though) so its not like they're a new invention, or even a 4 stroke motogp era invention, as your beloved 2strokers had them. (Schwantz ran a quickshifter for 94-95 as well I believe, just a modified sidestand switch for ignition lol)
I think the saying 2 steps back to make one step forward is not applicable here. I feel that it should be more a step to the side. Keeping whats already there, as it is clearly working, with the records I mentioned above, and the record crowds as well, but the step to the side being made, so that development is focused somewhere else. A solution I've thought of would be to take these MM Electronics, and go a step further with how controlled they are, and make the rider aids, such as the TC, AW, etc controlled also. IE Everyone has to use the same values, or maybe give them 3 options that are the same for all the riders.These values again, may be less than whats already on at the minute.
That would be up to the riders meetings, Dorna and Magneti Marelli.
EG: Traction control settings could be set to have 3 (or 4 if you count off as one) settings.
0: 0% interference
1: 10% interference
2: 25% interference
3: 35% interference
Could make the development focus somewhere else rather than getting the most of the electronics, (Look at Yamahas/Rossis issues), while still keeping the bikes quick and close, as well as making the rider have more of an input hopefully.
I disagree that its ruining the 'sport', its just changing it, and at the minute, its much better than it used to be.
I also disagree that someone wanting desperately to win have something mentally wrong with them, as after all, that's why people race is it not? To win? If you don't want to win, then you no longer want to race. Its just how far you're willing to go to win that determines whether you display sportsmanship or not.
As for sportsmanship, that is dead for the most part. And for me it died with Lance Armstrong. (Yes IK wrong type of bike, and everyone was supposedly doing it but the principles apply.)
The main thing that determines how far someone will go to win, whether its Performance Enhancing Drugs, which affects all sports,
(Hell Professional Counter Strike Video Gamers were on Aderall FGS, (Interestingly alcohol is considered a Performance Enhancing Drug in shooting as it slows the heart and regulates the breathing meaning a more accurate shot. Don't ask why I know that as I don't know myself lol)) or 'interpreting the rules differently' to gain an advantage, where that classes as cheating is debatable.
For me cheating is where you feel the need to hide what you're doing to gain an advantage from the organisers/scrutineers, then its cheating. Like in NASCAR where in ye olden days teams used to drop cig butts into the cylinder, to reduce the capacity for Scrutineering, yet when the engine started it burned the cig away and had a bigger engine, or when toyota used a moving restrictor in their rally car. That's cheating.
So was my Dad who ran a re-bored 640cc honda CBR '600'f, which produced way more power than it should. (In his defence though he did buy it like that, and only found out when he rebuilt the engine after his first season on it LOL, he said it was quickest bike there. I was like NO shit sherlock)
Hacking in a competitive game for me is a little pointless, and doesn't get you anywhere, (I can speak from experience as 15 year old me has a VAC Ban LOL) although I do believe it has its place in gaming.
Hackvhack games are quite fun in a weird way, and things like the FOV changers in the MOTOGP and Ride Games are also hacks.
Bragging about being the best when you hack however is wrong and I despise that.
Depends what you class as exciting. I have watched many 500cc races on youtube, and many races without electronics, and I actually was bored, as yes, the racers were on a knife edge, but they were also around 5 seconds apart. These were also races that were deemed 'classics' by MotoGP, and were deemed historical by everyone in the know.
As for taking the sport back, that would compound the problem. It needs to be constanly moving forward, or as i said above, at least sideways. If you want a race class like that then it has to NOT be MotoGP.
Grand Prix racing has always been the 'pinnacle of motorcycling technology', and it still is. Its just how that tech is used in a bike that's changed, and thus, I actually believe that when you say 'back to basics of man and machine' that you're wrong, as that's never been Grand Prix racing despite what you'd think. Its just how the tech is used, and how people go quicker. It used to be the rider went quicker, hence where the 'fusion of man and machine' thingy came from, but its always been about the tech. ALWAYS. Its just playing a bigger role now.
That brings me onto my point, whats exciting, is purely personal opinion. For me, MotoGP is way more exciting now than it used to be, as the racing is really close for the most part. Whether its artificial, or why its close is irrelevant. Its good to watch, as these days they're constantly overtaking, every lap, every turn pretty much, and for me that's more exciting than knowing someone 'could' have a moment if they're a little impatient.
Which one is better to ride is a different topic entirely.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/167194/1/stoner-i-went-back-to-two-year-old-electronics
Correction on my part: He ran with as little as possible, as the teams wouldn't let him get rid of them XD
He also says if there was no electronics Rossi would be winning again, so hes clearly lost it bless him.
As for what I said, I still stand by it. That's what the sport is today, and not necessarily my opinion BTW. Whether you agree with it or not, is a different story.
My opinion:
Using electronics, and the ability to successfully interpret data and make physical changes based off seemingly meaningless squiggles, has always interested me, and will continue to do so, which is why I am a fan of SOME electronics.
At the minute, I feel MotoGP is at a peak in terms of race quality, close racing, lap records going out the window most weekends, top speeds for each track being broken pretty much every year, lean angle records being smashed over and over again (Marquez hit 65 degrees at the Sachsenring, and it wasn't a save).
I do however think electronics are part of that, as due to the way they work, and the fact they're a control electronics package, (Magneti Marelli), everyone is fast at the same places, and all the lap times are close, which again is a good thing as a spectator, and spectacular to watch.
I also think that the electronics, while necessary to go fast, have gone a little too far with their interference. That's not to say we should get rid of it all together, (Even Rainey Ran with electronically adjustable fuel mapping to the end of his career, and I think honda experimented with TC in the late 90's but the processing power wasn't there yet or something, dont quote me on the last one though) so its not like they're a new invention, or even a 4 stroke motogp era invention, as your beloved 2strokers had them. (Schwantz ran a quickshifter for 94-95 as well I believe, just a modified sidestand switch for ignition lol)
I think the saying 2 steps back to make one step forward is not applicable here. I feel that it should be more a step to the side. Keeping whats already there, as it is clearly working, with the records I mentioned above, and the record crowds as well, but the step to the side being made, so that development is focused somewhere else. A solution I've thought of would be to take these MM Electronics, and go a step further with how controlled they are, and make the rider aids, such as the TC, AW, etc controlled also. IE Everyone has to use the same values, or maybe give them 3 options that are the same for all the riders.These values again, may be less than whats already on at the minute.
That would be up to the riders meetings, Dorna and Magneti Marelli.
EG: Traction control settings could be set to have 3 (or 4 if you count off as one) settings.
0: 0% interference
1: 10% interference
2: 25% interference
3: 35% interference
Could make the development focus somewhere else rather than getting the most of the electronics, (Look at Yamahas/Rossis issues), while still keeping the bikes quick and close, as well as making the rider have more of an input hopefully.
Quote from: Hawk on July 13, 2019, 10:26:20 AMThis statement describes perfectly the destructive attitude of so many people today who are willing to ruin a true sport at any costs to win. That's not sportsmanship and certainly not a sporting attitude..... and above all it just leads to what amounts to cheating within a sport and fake results...... If that's what people truly desire these days then there is something mentally wrong with them. Lol!
It's the same cheating syndrome when people hack games to make sure they win at all costs and then brag about being the best, when in actual fact they are nothing but cheats and losers.
I disagree that its ruining the 'sport', its just changing it, and at the minute, its much better than it used to be.
I also disagree that someone wanting desperately to win have something mentally wrong with them, as after all, that's why people race is it not? To win? If you don't want to win, then you no longer want to race. Its just how far you're willing to go to win that determines whether you display sportsmanship or not.
As for sportsmanship, that is dead for the most part. And for me it died with Lance Armstrong. (Yes IK wrong type of bike, and everyone was supposedly doing it but the principles apply.)
The main thing that determines how far someone will go to win, whether its Performance Enhancing Drugs, which affects all sports,
(Hell Professional Counter Strike Video Gamers were on Aderall FGS, (Interestingly alcohol is considered a Performance Enhancing Drug in shooting as it slows the heart and regulates the breathing meaning a more accurate shot. Don't ask why I know that as I don't know myself lol)) or 'interpreting the rules differently' to gain an advantage, where that classes as cheating is debatable.
For me cheating is where you feel the need to hide what you're doing to gain an advantage from the organisers/scrutineers, then its cheating. Like in NASCAR where in ye olden days teams used to drop cig butts into the cylinder, to reduce the capacity for Scrutineering, yet when the engine started it burned the cig away and had a bigger engine, or when toyota used a moving restrictor in their rally car. That's cheating.
So was my Dad who ran a re-bored 640cc honda CBR '600'f, which produced way more power than it should. (In his defence though he did buy it like that, and only found out when he rebuilt the engine after his first season on it LOL, he said it was quickest bike there. I was like NO shit sherlock)
Hacking in a competitive game for me is a little pointless, and doesn't get you anywhere, (I can speak from experience as 15 year old me has a VAC Ban LOL) although I do believe it has its place in gaming.
Hackvhack games are quite fun in a weird way, and things like the FOV changers in the MOTOGP and Ride Games are also hacks.
Bragging about being the best when you hack however is wrong and I despise that.
Quote from: Hawk on July 13, 2019, 10:26:20 AMWe should take the sport back to it's basics of the true marriage of man and machine with no electronic aids at all.... The sport would be so much more exciting to watch knowing that what your seeing is true rider skills on show well in tune with his racing bike.
Depends what you class as exciting. I have watched many 500cc races on youtube, and many races without electronics, and I actually was bored, as yes, the racers were on a knife edge, but they were also around 5 seconds apart. These were also races that were deemed 'classics' by MotoGP, and were deemed historical by everyone in the know.
As for taking the sport back, that would compound the problem. It needs to be constanly moving forward, or as i said above, at least sideways. If you want a race class like that then it has to NOT be MotoGP.
Grand Prix racing has always been the 'pinnacle of motorcycling technology', and it still is. Its just how that tech is used in a bike that's changed, and thus, I actually believe that when you say 'back to basics of man and machine' that you're wrong, as that's never been Grand Prix racing despite what you'd think. Its just how the tech is used, and how people go quicker. It used to be the rider went quicker, hence where the 'fusion of man and machine' thingy came from, but its always been about the tech. ALWAYS. Its just playing a bigger role now.
That brings me onto my point, whats exciting, is purely personal opinion. For me, MotoGP is way more exciting now than it used to be, as the racing is really close for the most part. Whether its artificial, or why its close is irrelevant. Its good to watch, as these days they're constantly overtaking, every lap, every turn pretty much, and for me that's more exciting than knowing someone 'could' have a moment if they're a little impatient.
Which one is better to ride is a different topic entirely.
) but still, way over 250