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Messages - doubledragoncc

4996
Custom hardware / Re: Controller beginnings
November 01, 2014, 05:28:23 PM
@Hawk

Thanks for saying that hawk, but L have changed a lot and there is so much l never show. l do it for the passion of riding and my main point for it is to help everyone enjoy bike sims and games. I know the patent laws so the info l give is basic, but it still helps others. I realize many can not afford a real system and am working on a modular design with that in mind. At the end of the day l just want to help whoever l can, its not about money, its about the passion of riding.

Thank you for stepping up and saying that though. Its people like you that care for others here that makes this a great community. I think it was very good of teeds to give me the credit, he did not have to, but did, thats how we all should be here.

Keep it sunny side up guys and gals

DD
4997
Custom hardware / Re: Controller beginnings
November 01, 2014, 04:54:22 PM
Quote from: teeds on November 01, 2014, 01:30:22 PM
My mate has finished the steering base, just got to make and fit the control mechanics then wire it up. It's a blatant copy of DDs rig and I thank him for saving me a load of time working out how best to mount the handle bars to the pivot.

The seat section has been thoroughly tested and has stood up well. Just got to work out what might be best to use for foam, rubber or other pliable stuff to give the rear brake a hydraulic brake fee, I'll be using the same thing for the front brake too.



Glad I could help with the steering. I intend to patent it eventually but it costs a lot of money. Thanks for giving me the credit for design. If I can help in any way just ask. The main point is that you should use expansion springs for lever resistance and not compression springs, same for the steering to center it.

One negative in you bars is the height. It needs to be around 810mm at the ends of the bars to the ground and 820mm for the seat from top of the seat to the ground. Thats the basic measurements for GSXR and CBR bikes. The top of the foot pegs should be 440mm form the top of the seat and in the center of the seat horizontal line. These are just basic crotchrocket setup but will give you an idea of how to start the spacing. You can bring the bars closer to the seat for a more upright sitting position as it is less strain on your back over long periods of time riding. After an hour on one of my systems its quite a workout on your arms and back but in a good way lol.

Best of luck and fun in the build.

DD
4998
I understand that about the bike MOD updates, but I have seen others using bikes that are not in the bikeMOD folder to download so some must be somewhere else on the forum.
4999
Suggestions and wishlist / Re: Riding style
October 31, 2014, 02:51:41 AM
Im with you on that Max. I ride the bike, l dont have time to look at pretty rider animations!!! Surely the bike physics and core crashes are far more important to make this sim work properly and sell better because of it.

DD
5000
Documentation / Re: Direct steer
October 30, 2014, 04:16:54 PM
Too true buddy.

The one thing that l still dont know though is the fact that, is direct steer more realistic than normal steering only because of the physics behind it in real life, or is normal steering still realistic, but not requiring so many inputs. Put another way. Does this mean normal steering in GPB is wrong so far as the physics go, ei: not realistic from input to how the bike reacts? meaning that normal steering is just an arcade input as apposed to a sim?

To put it plainly. Is it necessary to have a complicated controller or one that gives the same end effect, the right input and feels good, but everyone can afford?
5001
Suggestions and wishlist / Re: Riding style
October 30, 2014, 03:33:00 PM
Hey Max, I was a motorcycle medical courier for 7 years and it was a wild ride dude. A London Motorcycle Courier riding style would be fun, deadly but fun lol

DD
5002
Documentation / Re: Direct steer
October 30, 2014, 03:25:04 PM
OH l just had a brainfart..........

What if l used 2 load-cells and wired them some way that one gave a possitive reading and the other a negative to on axis, and while both were not being applied pressure the axis would be centered, then depending on which load-cell received pressure, the axis would think of a left or right input????

I am not an electronics guy to that degree, but as far as l know load-cells work only one way, BUT maybe l can think along this line more, what you think MAX?

DD
5003
Documentation / Re: Direct steer
October 30, 2014, 03:17:58 PM
Thanks for that Max.

OK, so now we have 1 axis input for left torque, 1 axis for right input torque, 1 for lean angle left and right and still no rider lean!!! Thats 3 physical inputs for 2 actions and no software to support it not even GPB I think?, as his coding for the torque is for only one input axis if L am correct, or not?

With this said you also have to consider the actual movement you are making with the bars and having to separate the 2 actions, your talking a lot of work and money for this to happen and be reliable, precise, and realistic as possible. I have been working on a design that actually has this, but it is something that would have to be very very robust, pretty heavy and expensive. I reality, in order to have a controller work realistically, the sim would have to be written so that it has an axis input for left and an input axis for right when it come to a measurement for torque or any kind of pressure input as they can only be measured individually. The only possible way l have been playing with is pure accelerometers and gyros, but not found one yet that is quick enough for the right signal for steering response.  I am hoping that Leo Bodnar will be able to help with this. I am working on new designs with Direct Steer as a main point and am putting a proposal together to send Leo next week.

All your thoughts are of great help Max, you give so much to this community, thanx buddy

DD
5004
Hi to all the modders out there.

You all do such an amazing job and make this the best sim in the world, thank you all so much.

So........my question is, would it be possible that in the name of the bike it could hold the version of GPB it works with?

ie:- CBR_600 6b the 6 b stating it is 100% okay with that version of GPB. Then a simple list of all newly updated and NEW bikes would be sooooooo good and simple.

I know its a small point but l think it would inform us all when a bike is updated as sometimes the BikeMOD v? misses a few bikes.

No matter what I wish to once again say a very BIG thank you to you all for all MODs you create.

DD
5005
General Discussion / Re: GP Bikes beta6b
October 30, 2014, 02:37:15 PM
As a hater of gamepads, but being stuck without my own controller, l find this a huge improvement on 5b even without any setup at all. The front end still washes out when it should not and the tank slappers are too profound still but still a great improvement. GREAT work Piboso thank you.

DD
5006
Plugins / Re: MaxHUD plugin
October 30, 2014, 01:55:25 PM
Thanx so much Max, dang quick work buddy.
5007
Documentation / Re: Direct steer
October 30, 2014, 01:48:14 PM
Hi guys.

@Max

Quote :- In what I was saying, the bars would be turnable, of course (no sense otherwise). The difference would be that the bars output is a torque (and not an angle).
The torque is directly read by a torque sensor, instead of being computed from an angular measurement in an indirect manner.

The bar position will be "set by the game" (more precisely, the control device will have a control loop that will track the target bar position computed by the sim). Of course, applying a torque on the bars will alter the bar angle, as the applied torque is simply added to the "environment" torque by the sim in order to compute the evolution of the (target) bar position.

In a conventional system, the control device sends an angle to the sim and the sim sends a force (feedback) to the control device.
In what I was saying it's the opposite: the control device sends the torque to the sim and the sim sends an angle to the control device (angle that will be implemented by the device, i.e. the bars will turn in this case too). This mimics more naturally the physical model of the bike.

Most likely, generating a torque and reading an angle (usual systems) is cheaper than generating an angle and reading a torque. But the end result may not be the same.
In principle, they are equivalent, in practice it may be a different story.

To a certain degree it is the same difference you can have on these two pedal (or lever) brake systems:

    The usual system: you have a spring of known stiffness and a position sensor (usually a potentiometer): from the position sensor and the stiffness you can compute the force applied.
    The better system: a load cell, where there's no actual movement (past a certain point) and a torque is directly read.

Unquote


I thought I would add a bit of actual testing with load-cells and other ways to implement real life physics into a control system. I have been testing for a long time and the truth is that the way you think about it is almost impossible to simulate correctly. The biggest problem is that when using a load-cell for torque output to the sim, it is FAR to sensitive when just sitting  in a room. I will try and explain it as best I can, but it is something you need to FEEL to really understand. With a load-cell you have practically only a few millimeters of movement at most, now imagine if the thumbstick on a gamepad which most use for steering, could only move 1 to 2mm each left or right, it would be impossible to control the steering of the bike. Not only this but with load-cells would need to have one for the left and one for the right inputs, this would take 2 axis on a controller to input to the sim. A load-cell has to go through a load-cell accelerometer to be able to communicate to the computer as a load-cell has 4 connections but every control board for analog input works on a 3 connector system and also has to have the measurements from the load-cell interpreted to a voltage output for the control board to send the signal to the computer, then to the sim the right way.

I hope this clears the point of how difficult it is to simulate just one input needed for Direct Steer, as it all leads back to the difference of sitting in a room and riding a real bike. I am working on new designs and have just contacted Leo Bodnar about making a bike system together. He is very interested and if there is anyone who can find an electronic answer to this problem it will be Leo.

I think this is the only true way to have the control of the bike, but wonder if it is leading away from reality as to the fact that too many are expecting a sim to be able to be 100% like in real life when in reality you can NOT simulate the forces of nature sitting in a room as apposed to being on a real bike. There has to be a point of limitation and many forget that a sim should be for everyone not just the experts at it.

This is a great thread and very helpful to understanding how you are all dealing with direct steer. The more posted here the more it will be able to help each user of it.

Keep it sunny side up guys

DD   
5008
Hi rmwilson, if you need any help just ask and l will try my best to do so.

I dont know the mechanics of the system you want to buy, but once you have one send me all the info you can and I will be able to tell you what you have to do to get what you want.

DD
5009
Racing / Re: OldSchool Race Monza
October 20, 2014, 02:46:31 PM
Brilliant race to watch. Im not good enough on the 2strokes but loved the replay, thanks PeterV and also for your advise online. Hope to join you guys soon.

Loved the 11 to 13th lap watching the battle for 1st place, brilliant riding you two.

DD
5010
Bikes / Re: WSS 600 Bikeset..
October 16, 2014, 12:35:01 PM
Thanks very much Dude<<<<<double antandra lol