Does that not make the lever extremely stiff when there's nothing "flexing"?
Why can't you calibrate it with air in the system?
Why can't you calibrate it with air in the system?
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Quote from: poupou59890 on May 09, 2019, 06:37:31 AMand if the rig can lean as real will be awesome (but this will be for another time)This has been discussed a whole lot, and leaning a motorcycle sim would probably not contribute to a realistic feeling. The force vector is always parallel with the bikes "y-axis" (the one going straight up through the bike) no matter how much the bike is leaning (a very small difference depending on the tire width). Tilting a sim just makes you feel like you're falling off I guess.
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 09, 2019, 06:37:31 AMI filled the brake fluid yesterday, and the feeling is good with the breka lever but I found that the range it is not as expected, not very linear...but I will try to adpat that later when the full rig will be built.
Can't wait to see it running on VR
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 07, 2019, 12:15:54 PMQuote from: Chris_Beeves on May 07, 2019, 07:54:48 AMThe derivative (within a quite small time span) of YawVelocity should be interesting for this, right?In principle, yes. In practice you'll likely need to be smarter than a plain derivative. You'll have to play with some sort of high-pass filter to see if this is feasible, on the Yaw or on the Yaw velocity.
To be honest, I expect that won't be enough but it depends on what you really want to do with the "Hey I'm losing the rear" signal.
The tricky thing is that a low-side happens pretty fast ...
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 07, 2019, 12:15:54 PMQuote from: Chris_Beeves on May 07, 2019, 07:54:48 AMHow does it read when leaning in a turn? Is it relative to the bike or the ground?I guess you're aware of the Telemetry tool I've made for GPB, right ?
If bike, not interesting, if ground, possibly usable?
Inspecting the evolution of the angles over a lap can help understand what they are.
They yaw is the "bike direction": imagine a line along the bike frame, project it in the 2d X-Y (horizontal) plane and measure the angle between that projection and a given fixed direction (the "north") and you get the yaw angle.
If there's no lateral sliding (rear or front), then it's the same as the heading, the direction you're moving in.
Not sure what you mean with "relative to the bike or ground".
Quote from: poupou59890 on May 06, 2019, 02:56:07 PMIs it me or just exiting pit is incredibly difficult in direct steer mode ?
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 07, 2019, 07:40:29 AMThe trivial approach is to use m_fYaw/YawVelocity and some filtering: the yaw varies when you follow the track, but if your bike starts to lose the rear in a turn, the yaw will vary quickly. Depending on the detection precision you need, filtering could be enough or totally not enough.
If it's not enough you'd have to go ballistic with something way more complex, like a simplified model of the entire bike & tyres to predict a yaw and see when the measured one diverges.
If GPB outputs in the telemetry the tyres (rear and front) sideslip angles then it would probably be easier to do something, but it's unlikely this will happen give that GPB outputs are the outputs one could reasonably expect to see in a real bike (onboard) telemetry system.
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 07, 2019, 06:41:25 AMAnd here it goes againNah, there I went. All on my own. And found the way out myself.Quote from: HornetMaX on April 20, 2019, 10:19:44 AMDS2, as expected, is the way to go for FFB. I can't even remebber the number of times a newcomer arrives, asks for advice on an FFB rig, one suggests DS2 and the guy ends up saying "I'll do DS1 because <insert wrong explanation here>".
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 07, 2019, 06:41:25 AMExactly. That is the only mode for ffb.Quote from: Chris_Beeves on May 06, 2019, 09:07:40 PMEnter M301!! Yes, I know! A completely new name!! :OAll this with DSA/DS2 right ?
And WOOW! It actually works surprisingly well!! I still have to tweak the settings a lot, but for proof of concept,
I am more than content!! You can really "feel the road" in the handlebars, and the counter steering is surprisingly
intuitive! (Still difficult as h*ll though)
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 07, 2019, 06:41:25 AMQuote from: Chris_Beeves on May 06, 2019, 09:07:40 PM- Making the .dlo plugin for gpb send serial data to The Arduino to control the knee sliders (to begin with)You're aware the info is not available in GPB telemetry right ?
I've seen your suggestion/wishlist post about it but judging from past experience I wouldn't bet much on the request being granted.
Quote from: D4rw1n on May 06, 2019, 10:37:32 PMFollowing this very closely !!
A lot of good ideas, and about the haptic feedback for the sliders, I had thought about putting some curved and textured spinning disks directly mapped to motorcycle speed,.
So that when you lean (with actual sliders) and hit the apex, you would touch these curved disks as if it was in real.
Of course only if the chassis can lean.
A question about your loading cells: are you actually measuring the mean value between both of them? or are they dedicated for their proper side?
Quote from: D4rw1n on May 06, 2019, 08:11:58 PMPlease correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm still trying to understand some difference between DS1 (elderly called DST) & DS2 (elderly called DSA).
(I may repeat with different words what has been already said earlier on this thread, so my apologises in advance for the redundancy)
I'm not sure to understand all the things about DS1 & DS2 as I have never tried it with a handlebar, but will try some day with my xbox controller, *just for science*.
My current understanding is:
- DS1 gets as input a torque value from the game controller, i.e most likely a handlebar with some load cells or any alternative sensor able to measure the torque applied on the handgrips (presumably without force feedback, but see the * further).
- DS2 gets as input a steering angle from the game controller, i.e most likely a handlebar with force feedback feature.
Assuming the force feedback effect we usually talk about (like here and in any other racing game) is calculated from GP-Bikes and sent to the controller, and because the force feedback has a direct effect on the steering angle at anytime (turning resistance but also wobble effect), it would put pressure against driver hands on the handlebar and provide complete random and irrelevant values read from a load cell, therefore it would make no sense to use regular force feedback with DS1. Is that phrasing correct?
Assuming what has been stated above is correct, there is still one thing I don't fully understand and that I have read in multiple times on the forum: "DS1 can't be played with force feedback".
If we consider we use DS1 with a big&powerful stepper motor and optionally a rotary encoder (it's out of scope regarding the topic but still .. I would prefer a close loop though).
DS1 example would be:
You want to lean the motorcycle on the right, so you push on your right handlegrip and/or pull the left one. Call this moment A.
Automagically, your perfect calibration of load cells input is sent as a torque input to GP-Bikes and the physical engine makes its calculations and as a result turns slightly the handlebar (call this moment B) and lean the bike's chassis until you have reached expected lean angle. Call this moment C.
While this was happening, in parallel your steering handlebar has slightly moved as well in real life (moment B) and chassis has leaned as well (moment B too).
Then you release any pressure on your handlebar, and the absence of torque input lets the physical engine put the steering angle to 0 degree again (or close from that) (moment C).
In this scenario, I assume we would feel directly the force through the stepper motor, without using any regular "force feedback" input from the game, but actually a direct effect on the steering handlebar, isn't it?
I'm thinking as well such FFB mode would affect as well torque input, but that would be exactly like in real life.
I'm not sure I have been clear on the 2 different force feedback I'm talking about, as I have actually no precise clue how a regular force feedback is presented from a game to a game controller (int? float? array of float?). If I'm not wrong, I don't think such value is given through telemetry data shared from DLO memory.
EDIT: re-reading my post shows me it can be felt contradictory about the "regular" force feedback and the "stepper motor" feedback.
In other words (again): I'm wondering actually whether the regular force feedback given through DS2 mode is as accurate and as real as the one we would feel through DS1 with a stepper motor controlling the steering.
Hence my statement "therefore it would make no sense to use force feedback with DS1" ...
All that post to say that I have only a very small in-game practice and that I'm trying to see what path I should take to develop my own rig: DS1 or DS2?