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January 22, 2020, 09:27:59 am

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Messages - Hawk

1
General Discussion / Re: Airbag system
January 20, 2020, 09:36:57 am
Who said "Airbags" in suits were a modern era thing! Hehehe!  ;D  ;D ;)

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2ihuA1j]Funy_Airbag1 by Hawk_GB, on Flickr[/url]
2
@Myst1cPrun3:

I cannot agree with you about the rider skills today of setup of the bike and electronics equalling the natural manual skills of a rider of the past era at all, and you seem to be suggesting that the riders of the past manual skills are lacking cause they still cannot ride any faster with electronics than they could without them? You can only ride a bike so fast with or without electronic aids, so if a lesser skilled rider is only able to make up their short-comings by electronic aids to match the more manually skilled riders performances then that doesn't mean that the manually skilled rider is less skilled in the use of the electronic aids cause as I said a bike can only go so fast whether ridden with or without electronic aids, the electronic aids just allow the lesser skilled riders to greatly narrow or even equal that skills gap to the truly talented manual riders performances, hence your getting the tighter racing we see today. So no, I personally think you have deduced the reasons for that wrongly.

As for the KS and WR era battles: Again, I have to disagree with your reasoning about their talents and reasons for the different amount of championship wins between them.

I do agree with you on one point, that KS was the more naturally gifted rider of the two. But the reason he lost out to WR on championships wasn't anything to do with setup ability of himself or team Suzuki, it was simply that in most seasons KS was on slightly inferior machinery and had to push harder than WR to keep up the pace. When you have to push hard all the time then it's only a matter of time before mistakes are made and if you remember, KS's career was riddled with occasions where people were just expecting him to crash.
WR was the more consistent rider by a country mile, able to be so mainly cause he didn't have to push so hard in the races due to his slightly better machinery, but they were both more or less as equally talented as each other in my opinion, just in different skill-sets, KS was the naturally gifted rider whereas WR was gifted in his ability to be constantly consistent, and it's consistence in performances that win championships.... It's no good being brilliant in a few races only to end up sliding down the track on your arse for the rest of the season, that won't win you anything except maybe a lot of fan-base support for your spectacular riding.

KS has always said that it's a shame they never got to ride on equal machinery cause it would've been very interesting to see if WR could've still been as consistent in his performances having someone who could've pushed him even harder at less risk of crashing. That would've been very interesting to have seen the outcome. So I can agree with you again(all this agreement is shocking!! LOL! ;D  ) that I also think WR wouldn't have won so many championships if KS was on equal machinery, but it would've still been a very close battle between them and also close on the total championships won for each of them.... But it was definitely a brilliant era to witness nonetheless. ;D

3
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on January 17, 2020, 12:05:38 amIn response to that, a high jumpers clothing is specialised to allow maximum flexibility and support, and the shoes are designed in much the same way. All while being light and comfortable.

But anyway,
I have watched a load of gp 500 races, and I must say, while there are some good ones, I personally don't get as excited about it as modern races (by modern I mean 4 stroke era so 03-present), and the good close races are certainly harder to come by.

And it's not that I hate that era, or am a technology rider assist freak, (I do like computers and so on, and enjoy the data side of gp racing) but this opinion, is just GPs.

When it comes to Superbike and Production based machinery, I'd take a late 80s to late 90s sbk any day over the current shite, but being more of a superbike fan anyway than a GP fan, I guess that's expected.

In reality MotoGP is a sport designed to push the limits of technology, the limits of physics, the limits of the riders, and go as fast as possible, while putting on a show.
This for me is what has currently been achieved. A MotoGP machine should be as fast as a motorcycle can physically go and, the electronics help achieve that. It's not called the 'pinnacle of motorcycle technology' for nothing.

As for how much the teams play in the rules of MotoGP I cannot say, as I've not really looked into it. However I would hazard a guess it's less input than the f1 teams. Now there is a sport where the teams rule.

As for fair play, the rules are the same for everyone. It's about as fair as it can get. Just because the rules aren't what you would pick doesn't make them bad, or incorrect, or kill the sport.

Intact the electronic aids actually make the sport FAIRER as they even out the field, due to their ability to work with theme bike and help remove some problems with the setup/handling. Thus putting the bikes, and by extension the riders, on a more equal playing field, and therefore making it more competitive

Okay..... I hear what your saying, but let me ask you this question:
If we had one rider that was very skilled at controlling his throttle hand to control the traction of the rear tyre manually, and another rider who was good but not as good as the first rider controlling his throttle hand for the TC manually, then they bring in electronic computer controlled TC so that the traction of the rear tyre was always at an optimum synchronised with the riders throttle setting etc, etc, would you agree that it's taking away from the first riders skill-set and allowing the second rider an advantage against the first better skilled rider cause the second rider can now easily match the first riders previous manually applied throttle hand skills with the help of the electronic aided TC control that he now has available to him?
Then ask yourself if that second rider can now justifiably say that he is able to match the first riders lap times(due to the TC aided controls) that he genuinely thinks he deserves to be matching the first riders lap times cause of that new electronic aided TC device he now uses when previously he couldn't keep up with the first riders lap times cause he honestly didn't have the same talent to control the TC manually like the first rider could do? Do you really think that is fair in anyway shape or form to the first rider?

In F1, the teams don't have as much power over the rules as many people seem to think.
Yes the governing body does take note of any concerns and what time frame the teams would need to bring in any major rule changes, but there are many rules the teams would want scrapping straight away too.
It's like right now with those major changes coming in, in 2021, the teams screamed blue-murder so to speak to not have those rules implemented, it was the governing body together with Ross Brawn talking to the actual drivers that came up with those new major changes, not the teams themselves.

Then on the other-hand, their is the fact that most of the drivers would jump at the chance to go back to the old V12 pure combustion engines, but due to political correctness by the governing bodies and also the manufacturers wishes I guess that will never happen now.
So there are different attitudes with the teams and drivers.... The team tend not to want any major changes in rulings and yet the drivers seem to relish any major changes, especially if it's going back towards the fully manual glory days of Grand Prix Racing, it excites them.

I personally think that F1 are now heading in the right direction away from electronic controls and very much more a manually driven car, which they very much are today..... If they banned the teams from having access to engine mapping while the cars where racing then the F1 cars would actually now be a manually driven car; they have gotten rid of most of the electronic driver aids they used to use not so many years ago now.... And a lot of people still don't realise that fact.

Having said that, there can be bias decisions made still in F1.... What I'd call F1 politics. Like when Charles(Ferrari) ran Hamilton(Merc) off the road at Monza(Italy) and didn't even get a penalty, it was suspected that they didn't penalise Charles cause he was driving the Ferrari for the win at the time and the organisers probably thought the Italians would end up rioting if he'd have directly lost the GP cause they penalised him.

But when it comes down to Dorna, I don't think they have real control over what goes or happens in MotoGP, I personally think the MotoGP Teams do have much greater say and control in MotoGP than teams do in F1 these days.
4
Off Topic / Re: F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?
January 15, 2020, 06:41:27 pm
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on January 15, 2020, 04:38:57 pmIn the right areas feel free to speak what you want, but on these forums, and others, proper etiquette and manners apply ;) .

As someone who loves the older times you should know manners cost nothing :D

But as usual, I love debates with you Hawky, always entertaining and fun

Lol! Likewise mate! ;D  8)  ;)

You'll find that I only get a little un-mannered(should we say) in equal measure(I try) if others are doing the same or being continually disrespectful.... I maybe a little blunt and flippant at times but never mean to disrespect or upset anyone, otherwise you'll just have to get used to me and put up with it if you regard those things as anything else. Lol! ;)  ;D  8)

In fact you couldn't wish for a nicer, self-opinionated, easier-going person than I to have a debate with! Lol!  ;D  ;D
5
Off Topic / Re: F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?
January 15, 2020, 06:25:55 pm
Quote from: Manu on January 15, 2020, 05:16:02 pmI don't try to be facetious. It is difficult to express something in a different language. Maybe you didn't understand what I said.

However, I was not talking about my opinion but what you are trying to say.

You say it stops being a sport because riders can't measure their real abilities. In that case the only way to measure real skills is with the same machine.

Anyway I will not talk more about this subject since it is not going anywhere. For me it is no longer a debate when a person is unable to accept the opinion of another and only wants to impose their own.

Yes. I forgot that English is not your first language, my apologies for any misunderstandings Manu. You know me mate, no harm or disrespect was intended.  ;)  8)

All I'm trying to say is for MotoGP to get back to being a true sport again, were it's a competition between riders natural ability married with bike and the manufacturers machinery design and team skills and not aided via electronic rider aids controlled via computers in real-time which takes away some of the natural skills a good or great rider possesses..... Putting them on the same bikes would cut out the manufacturers role as such in competing for the manufacturers championship, and including electronic rider aids cuts out the sporting spirit of riders pitting their own skills against one another, that's all I'm saying.  :)

The fact that we don't agree just points out the same problem that politicians have when debating and also the reason they rarely end up changing their minds or agreeing on political issues.... It's not about getting someone to accept your opinion and it's certainly not about trying to impose an opinion on someone else at all(that point of view could be seen from both sides of the debate). If we cannot agree then we'll just agree to disagree mate, nothing wrong with that.  ;D  8)
6
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on January 15, 2020, 04:27:26 pm
Quote from: Hawk on January 15, 2020, 04:10:56 pm
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on January 15, 2020, 03:35:15 pm
Quote from: Docfumi on January 15, 2020, 10:26:15 amI think all the rider aids are hurting the sport a bit because now it's like watching arcade racing when we all want to see REAL racing. I mean think about it, as far as MotoGP goes we see a lot fewer high-sides and a lot less tank slappers which are a true thing of the past, and I feel these are good things but it makes racing look boring to the point I have to think why even have gears, oh wait! MotoE is here already. I want to see guys work the bike around the track for 26 laps, I want to see riders come from nine seconds back and win the race (not just Marquez). It was nice to see Fabio20 fight up the front but much like Zarco5 he could not get the job done and I started thinking this is really BS! Everyone is screaming that the ECU and other rider aids are killing the sport. I think it all comes down to the tyres and how good you set your bike up around them. Sure some bikes work better than others depending on the track and even the rider sometimes but most of it is that all bikes are on tyres and they only have two days to test them before the race, for F*ck sake every weekend a new compound. Again I call BULLSH*T! It's one thing to make a sport safe and another thing to castrate it.

Highsides: last year MotoGP had more than bsb. BSB has no TC/aids, MotoGP does, and this highside pattern has been seen for the past few years.

So I'd say that's not really a valid point.

As for MotoE, I don't know if you've seen it, but the racing is superb despite the lack of gears. Close, and often rough. High stakes too as a bike of that weight hitting s Leg is gonna hurt.


Bike setup is a vital part of MotoGP now, and to be fair, I am not a big fan of how 'finnicky' they are. You're either on the perfect setup, or you're off the pace significantly.
(Or your Marc Marquez but he's a different entity all on his own)

That being said, I appreciate the talent the engineers and riders have for diagnosis and applying squiggly lines to actual mechanical parts.
I find that awe inspiring to be honest.


As for safety elements, I agree with Manu. They are aids, to help the rider not to keep him (or her) safe. They make the bikes faster, and push technology to the edge. As that is what grand Prix racing is about. PUSHING TECHNOLOGY. Pushing the rider to new heights mentally and physically, by holding on to something seemingly breaking the laws of physics, and mentally by everything going by quicker than ever.

As mentioned with BSB and highsides, you could actually argue that TC and AW is making the sport More unsafe due to the riders relying on them. However this argument is short-lived, because, as Manu, rightly said, GP bikes would be unusable without them. And that's even more unsafe.

I believe that to keep the essence of GP Racing, which is pushing technology,(as all top level Motorsport has always  been) then these aids are essential, and if you have to limit power to remove this, you're losing the very foundation of Motorsport.

As for Hawks point of the 'whole point of sport' the actual equipment seems to be neglected in all your arguments.. it's not all about the person you know. You don't see a high jumper in jeans and flip flops? No they have the very best TECHNOLOGY available to them, to AID them in jumping as Efficiently and as high as possible.

There is no difference here with GP racing, except the fact the technology available is different.


What are you talking about with a high-jumper? What electronically controlled computer aided technology does a high-jumper use? More importantly, what technology aid as such does a high jumper use to aid them in actually jumping higher that they couldn't jump as high if they were not using it? :o

I can see why there is such a difference in our arguments as to what sport is all about and the subsequent debates about electronic aids or no electronics aids.... It's cause the advocates for electronic aids think that the sport of MotoGP revolves all around technology and it's advances and implementations to keep pushing the technological limits of machine and rider alike, whereas the advocates for having no electronic aids in sport are more towards a sport being a competition just between the competitors(riders) natural skills on a machine that cannot be by-passed or aided in those skills via electronically controlled devices that are not controlled in real-time by solely the rider himself.

It's either Cricket or not Cricket..... In other words, you either play fair or cheat to win at all costs. Which is it?

High jumping was relevant as there is a fair amount of tech in their clothing, the materials used and the processes to make it.
Not only that, but the shoes are specially designed as well to have optimal performance, and naturally each jumper wants the best and is using the manufacturer's to push the clothing as far as possible for their needs.

Now, the lack of electronic aids would increase the gaps between the machines, making being on the best machine even more important than now, and thus, you could still have the best rider on the grid on the worst bike, and him, or her, still be last.

If you were so set on having equal rider competition, then, although it may go against your programming, I strongly recommend MotoE.

Those are the same bikes, all reliant on corner speed, (much like the old 250s) and have a very aggressive power delivery to match. As well as this, they weigh a lot, so braking distances are increased, and rider strength for muscling the bike around the circuit is much more important.

And despite the fact they are electric bikes, the motor mapping is controlled and limited by the organisers, (get a few maps set already I believe but don't quote me on that) and there are no aids like TC or AW.

For the actual MotoGP class, I will repeat, you do not seem to be realising that MotoGP is a team sport. It is more than just the riders, and the rules have to cater to this as well.
This rule set, and electronic aids allow the bikes to go faster than theyve  ever gone before, and that is EQUALLY, if not MORE important than the riders for sales and figures. I know I actually pay more attention to the bikes than the riders these days, and I suspect I'm not the only one.

After all, you can't go to a dealership and buy a Marc Marquez, but you can buy a Honda RC213V - S.

As for it being cricket or not, as long as the rules permit it, it's legal. Just because they're not YOUR rules doesn't make it cheating or wrong

What are you on about?
What technology in clothing on a high jumper allows them to jump higher? What technology in footwear allows a high jumper to jump higher? The only technology in their footwear is to provide comfort and safety against injury for the high jumpers foot, the footwear does not give the high jumper any extra ability to jump higher at all! That cannot be said about electronic aids for riders in MotoGP allowing riders to ride faster than they otherwise would be able to without them. Lol! ;D

SideNote: Oh... By-the-way, Your going off topic talking about "high jumping", this is a thread about "the state of modern motoGP, past and future", please respect and stick to it. Thank you. Phffff!!! :P ;D ;D  I'm just pulling your chain mate, but I think I've made my point. Hahaha!  ;D  ;D  ;)

So you are saying that without electronic aids the bikes would be further apart in the race, and with electronic aids it allows a rider to ride better than he would without them allowing them to ride closer together? Good luck with being proud about shouting that one out. Your looking through your technology goggles alone again mate. Lol! ;D
Maybe you should take a closer look at all the old GP500 races.... There where many closely fought GP500 races of that era, and more exciting to watch too.

Who said anything about equal rider competition?

I did point out that MotoGP is a team effort when talking about winning championships in a previous post, so no, I'm not forgetting that at all. :P ;)

Obviously you have a differing opinion on this, but I'd probably be more likely to buy a product that was used by one of my sporting heroes than not. Of course it helps if that product is also well established and highly rated as being the best, but having a sporting icon sponsored by that company is a great asset for sales to the sporting public, more so than any other reason I would say. The fact that you've stated you are somewhat of a techno-freak probably puts you in the minority category for reasons to just why the public buy a product.

The whole meaning of the "It's Not Cricket" saying is about fair play and sticking to the rules of the game..... All I'm saying is that in MotoGP they have let the manufacturers have too much influence on the rules.... They have basically sold the soul of MotoGP to the devil... Gutless they are and have ruined the sport from what it was in the process! We either want fair play in sport(as any decent person would have it) or anything goes so long as you win(as the manufacturers/techno-geeks would have it), which sporting stance do you want as the norm?
7
Off Topic / Re: F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?
January 15, 2020, 04:31:42 pm
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on January 15, 2020, 03:41:09 pmHowever once again, can we get back to the topic of 2 Stoke technology and it's feasibility in today's age?

 Not electronics.

While I respect this is a forum and I respect people's right to post in it, and debate, I ask you have the respect to keep to the original topic.

Or I will just lock it


Oh C'mon matey.... Where's your sense of freedom of speech, your sense of humour.... Lighten-up will you, a bit of controversy and naturally evolving debate keeps the forum a bit more active and lively don't you think!? Hehe! ;D  ;D  ;)  8)

Let the debate evolve.... Where's your sense of FUN!!? Lol! ;D  ;)
8
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on January 15, 2020, 03:35:15 pm
Quote from: Docfumi on January 15, 2020, 10:26:15 amI think all the rider aids are hurting the sport a bit because now it's like watching arcade racing when we all want to see REAL racing. I mean think about it, as far as MotoGP goes we see a lot fewer high-sides and a lot less tank slappers which are a true thing of the past, and I feel these are good things but it makes racing look boring to the point I have to think why even have gears, oh wait! MotoE is here already. I want to see guys work the bike around the track for 26 laps, I want to see riders come from nine seconds back and win the race (not just Marquez). It was nice to see Fabio20 fight up the front but much like Zarco5 he could not get the job done and I started thinking this is really BS! Everyone is screaming that the ECU and other rider aids are killing the sport. I think it all comes down to the tyres and how good you set your bike up around them. Sure some bikes work better than others depending on the track and even the rider sometimes but most of it is that all bikes are on tyres and they only have two days to test them before the race, for F*ck sake every weekend a new compound. Again I call BULLSH*T! It's one thing to make a sport safe and another thing to castrate it.

Highsides: last year MotoGP had more than bsb. BSB has no TC/aids, MotoGP does, and this highside pattern has been seen for the past few years.

So I'd say that's not really a valid point.

As for MotoE, I don't know if you've seen it, but the racing is superb despite the lack of gears. Close, and often rough. High stakes too as a bike of that weight hitting s Leg is gonna hurt.


Bike setup is a vital part of MotoGP now, and to be fair, I am not a big fan of how 'finnicky' they are. You're either on the perfect setup, or you're off the pace significantly.
(Or your Marc Marquez but he's a different entity all on his own)

That being said, I appreciate the talent the engineers and riders have for diagnosis and applying squiggly lines to actual mechanical parts.
I find that awe inspiring to be honest.


As for safety elements, I agree with Manu. They are aids, to help the rider not to keep him (or her) safe. They make the bikes faster, and push technology to the edge. As that is what grand Prix racing is about. PUSHING TECHNOLOGY. Pushing the rider to new heights mentally and physically, by holding on to something seemingly breaking the laws of physics, and mentally by everything going by quicker than ever.

As mentioned with BSB and highsides, you could actually argue that TC and AW is making the sport More unsafe due to the riders relying on them. However this argument is short-lived, because, as Manu, rightly said, GP bikes would be unusable without them. And that's even more unsafe.

I believe that to keep the essence of GP Racing, which is pushing technology,(as all top level Motorsport has always  been) then these aids are essential, and if you have to limit power to remove this, you're losing the very foundation of Motorsport.

As for Hawks point of the 'whole point of sport' the actual equipment seems to be neglected in all your arguments.. it's not all about the person you know. You don't see a high jumper in jeans and flip flops? No they have the very best TECHNOLOGY available to them, to AID them in jumping as Efficiently and as high as possible.

There is no difference here with GP racing, except the fact the technology available is different.


What are you talking about with a high-jumper? What electronically controlled computer aided technology does a high-jumper use? More importantly, what technology aid as such does a high jumper use to aid them in actually jumping higher that they couldn't jump as high if they were not using it? :o

I can see why there is such a difference in our arguments as to what sport is all about and the subsequent debates about electronic aids or no electronics aids.... It's cause the advocates for electronic aids think that the sport of MotoGP revolves all around technology and it's advances and implementations to keep pushing the technological limits of machine and rider alike, whereas the advocates for having no electronic aids in sport are more towards a sport being a competition just between the competitors(riders) natural skills on a machine that cannot be by-passed or aided in those skills via electronically controlled devices that are not controlled in real-time by solely the rider himself.

It's either Cricket or not Cricket..... In other words, you either play fair or cheat to win at all costs. Which is it?
9
Off Topic / Re: F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?
January 15, 2020, 03:21:41 pm
Quote from: Manu on January 15, 2020, 02:33:08 pmSo to be fair all riders should ride the same bike. Otherwise, applying your rationing we face a scam. In motogp the best rider does not win, the best machine-rider combination wins. Therefore it does not compete on equal terms. On paper all the bikes meet the requirements but in practice those who can spend more money are those who have a chance to win. So we are no longer talking about a sport where the human faces another on equal terms to demonstrate his skills. No matter how skilled you are since without a competitive mount you can never win.

Now your talking about the manufacturers place in a Motorsport. Their aim is to produce the best machinery they can within the rules of a sport to win a manufactures championship. To do that they will obviously try and obtain the services of the riders they feel are best skilled to ride their bikes.

Manufacturers products are like competitors in that some manufacturers can produce better products than others just as there are competitors who are better skilled than others, that's the manufacturers competition between each other in a sport, something they compete for as a symbol of prestige and that goes towards greater sales of their products to the public, but both manufacturers and competitors have to adhere to the rules of the sport, the soul of sport and not to bring the sport into disrepute.

Why on earth you've come up with this idea that all riders should ride the same bike for I don't know? Unless your just trying to be facetious on the subject?
There is a manufacturers championship and a riders championship. Each manufacturer team have their own skills and abilities just as individual riders have their own unique skills and abilities, so why suggest that it would be fair for all to ride the same bike when manufacturers are competing to win their side of the championship too? Are you CRAZY? Hehe!  ;D  ;)

And no you wouldn't be facing a scam at all.... Of course the best rider manufacturer combination during any season is very likely to win the championship, what else would you expect? But it's also the case that the best bike with a bad rider won't win the championship too. But that's true whether we have electronic aids or not so what point are you trying to make Manu?
We all hope that several manufactures can produce more or less equally competitive bikes but generally their is always one manufacture that has produced a bike that is slightly better balanced or handles slightly better which carries through to better tyre performances and wear on that bike, etc, etc... and so in the event they do win the championship then they deserve to do so cause they've done the best job, manufacturer and rider together... That is not a scam at all, that's great team-work..... So again, what point are you trying to make with such a statement Manu?

PS: I hope your not suggesting that if manufacturers are given a maximum BHP power limit that they might as well be riding the same bikes? Noooo... I can't believe you of all people, someone who produces bike mods and knows what a difference balance and handling can make to the performance of a bike could even think of suggesting something like that mate. Are you Manu? :o  ;)
10
Off Topic / Re: F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?
January 15, 2020, 01:13:21 pm
Quote from: Manu on January 15, 2020, 09:55:29 amMaybe someone may think that the TC or AW are safety elements but the reality is different. They are electronic aids for the rider. In the modern era of motogp engine power is such that it would be impossible to drive the bike. These aids were designed to control all that power in some way and not destroy the tires in the first lap.

So what would be the point of riding a bike that cannot be driven?

Manu. Back in the days of GP500, riders were already beginning to say that the bikes were getting to their maximum handling power for a rider, some including Rossi even went to the extent of having the BHP reduced on their GP500 bikes cause they could handle and ride faster without the extra power available.
My point being Manu, competitive racing isn't all about power and speed at all costs, and the sport shouldn't take the view that because the manufacturers can and want to increase the power of the bikes that they should have to implement riders aids so that the riders can handle that extra power. They should talk to the riders and ask them what power they can handle without using TC or AW and make that level of power the maximum power a GP bike can have.
The argument that we have to have TC or AW simply cause the present power output of the current MotoGP bikes is un-ridable without them is a nonsense argument.... This is where they have let the manufacturers have too much say in where MotoGP is going in the future. Dorna or FIM should've set a maximum relatively safe limit on power that the riders feel they are able to handle without electronic aids and made a ruling so that the manufacturers had to stick to that power as a maximum level for the category involved.

There is no reason for rider aids.... It just brings the sport into disrepute when competitors of any sport are using aids to help their performances...

As far as I'm concerned, using any electronic aids is just as bad as someone playing a game-competition over the internet and using an aim-bot to aid their ability to win. The point being is that it's cheating the whole point of what sport is all about, which is for a person to pitch his/her natural abilities against another competitors natural abilities; this is where the respect comes from for champions in sports, the fact that people/fans/spectators can truly admire and wonder at their abilities to do what they do to win. How can fans truly respect a sportsman's abilities when they are using electronic competitor aids.

I just cannot understand why anyone would think it's okay to use electronic competitor aids in sports.... It's a nonsense and just SO wrong and needs to stop in my opinion.
11
Off Topic / Re: F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?
January 15, 2020, 12:38:58 pm
Quote from: Docfumi on January 15, 2020, 10:26:15 amI think all the rider aids are hurting the sport a bit because now it's like watching arcade racing when we all want to see REAL racing. I mean think about it, as far as MotoGP goes we see a lot fewer high-sides and a lot less tank slappers which are a true thing of the past, and I feel these are good things but it makes racing look boring to the point I have to think why even have gears, oh wait! MotoE is here already. I want to see guys work the bike around the track for 26 laps, I want to see riders come from nine seconds back and win the race (not just Marquez). It was nice to see Fabio20 fight up the front but much like Zarco5 he could not get the job done and I started thinking this is really BS! Everyone is screaming that the ECU and other rider aids are killing the sport. I think it all comes down to the tyres and how good you set your bike up around them. Sure some bikes work better than others depending on the track and even the rider sometimes but most of it is that all bikes are on tyres and they only have two days to test them before the race, for F*ck sake every weekend a new compound. Again I call BULLSH*T! It's one thing to make a sport safe and another thing to castrate it.

Well said Docfumi! Nice to see someone else here in the forum who also has the guts to voice their honest opinion on the technological state of MotoGP today.... Well said mate! ;) 8)
12
Off Topic / Re: F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?
January 15, 2020, 09:34:08 am
Quote from: Manu on January 15, 2020, 08:46:15 am
Quote from: Hawk on January 14, 2020, 11:33:29 amIs there some kind of twisted thinking that you need rider aid electronics to make motorcycle racing safe or what going on here? Lol!


Maybe you don't know, but traction control is not a safety element.


I'm sure many would dispute that Manu, depending on their point of view about TC.

But if TC isn't considered a safety element then there is no good reason in this modern safety obsessed era that TC couldn't be dropped so that the riders have to go back to using their throttle hand skills again is there?
It would probably mean big changes in engine unit power levels too but at least it would bring back that genuine rider machine marriage which is the way it should be in competitive Motorsports. ;)
13
Off Topic / Re: F1 New Engine Format: Considering 2T?
January 14, 2020, 08:32:03 pm
Quote from: matty0l215 on January 14, 2020, 04:30:59 pmAs with all of the "bring back 2 stroke" threads

Oh dear God, Please, No. 😁

They'll be coming back on the public roads too Matty..... We're coming back to getch-yaz all! I must've died and gone to heaven!! Hahaha! ;D  ;D
14
General Discussion / Re: Airbag system
January 14, 2020, 08:24:29 pm
Quote from: matty0l215 on January 14, 2020, 05:00:38 pmI will split the topic when I can.

"Does saftey make you a Pansy" will be coming soon

Only"Remainers" Play it Safe would be a more appropriate title Matty! Hehe! ;D  ;D  ;)
15
General Discussion / Re: Airbag system
January 14, 2020, 08:19:09 pm
Quote from: guigui404 on January 14, 2020, 04:45:24 pmCan we all stop this topic, also answering to Hawk, it always finish in complete nonsense

@guigui404:
I ignored your first disrespectful post about me, I ain't going to ignore anymore of your bigotry matey!

This is a forum guigui404... A forum is for debate and expression of opinions, so why don't you go pull your frigging head-in.
If you don't like what I say that's fine, I don't mind, but please respect my right to post my opinions how I see it. Idiot! :P