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rotect those countries from any military aggression from another country and without NATO we would probably have been involved in another world war by now with Russia's recent antics.

What has Russia done? Aside from looking after her own national security interests in the Crimea  in response to Washington's "Playbook" CIA Coup d'état against the democratically elected government of the Ukraine in 2014?

Who is siting nuclear missiles along the length of who's border (and installing a "defensive" missile system alongside its offensive missiles at the same time to compliment each other)? Answer: Not Russia.

What would be the reaction in Washington I wonder if Russia or China installed nuclear missiles in Mexico alongside the borders of the U.S.A.?

NATO troops are also massing along Russia borders as we speak. And conducting large scale and potentially highly provocative military exercises at the same time. Again right alongside Russia's borders..

I would politely suggest the real aggressor here is Washington/NATO. Not Russia.

One could make the same claims against Washington in the South China Sea also..

I am tbh confused how anyone might interpret the current situation in the world as anything other than aggression and provocation on the part of Washington and the banking interests which seem to influence Washington in its foreign policy agenda. 

My genuine concern is that mainstream media propaganda in the West has now overtaken reality. The reality concerning Russia, one might argue, is presently a sort of re-run of the Cuban missile crisis of 1962 but on a much larger scale and with the relative positions reversed. It seems funny to me how when Russia placed missiles on the island of Cuba in 1962 this was seen as dangerous and highly provocative (which it was although there was an explanation at least for this happening) but when Washington/NATO does the same thing on a much "grander" scale in 2016 it is immediately portrayed as "defensive" and "non-provocative" by the Western mainstream media. Really I think the hypocrisy involved in this is absurd. I do accept however that my personal opinion on this represents a minority viewpoint in the West.

I can't help but think that it is a very dangerous and a very funny old world that we presently live in. I suppose Russia taking the initiative to de-dolarise and seek its own currency and trading initiatives outside of the dollar frame-work might be considered a step too far as far as Washington and Washington's "owners" are concerned? I suppose one could suggest similar contradictions apply with regard to the U.S.A.'s heightened tensions with China also? Certainly I think there are two sides to every story at the very least..

Throw into the mix the proxy war in Syria and things do seem to be very precariously balanced at the moment to say the least.

I think this is why I don't take that much notice of the Western mainstream media these days if I'm honest..

grT

 

In my estimation..Hawk is sort of right and so is Max.

The real reason that there has been peace on the continent of Europe since WWII is because all European nations are vassal states of Washington. A situation enforced not only through NATO but also through the uniformly imposed private banking system that applies without exception throughout the whole of Europe. Why would the European nations under such an arrangement fight amongst themselves when in reality there's nothing left to fight for?

Despite the commonly held belief that WWII was a war fought over invasions (expansionism on the part of Germany) and counter defence by the allies it was in reality a war fought over two opposing systems of finance and currency. As was the case in the early part of the 19th century with the "take-down" of Napoleon. Hitler dispensed with the incumbent Rothschild owned German central bank and introduced his own independent system of finance and currency issuance just as Napoleon did in earlier times with his "Infamous Decree" of 1808.

Post World War II quote - Winston Churchill, Bern 1960.

"Germany's unforgivable crime before the second world war was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up her own exchange system from which the world-finance couldn't profit anymore...We butchered the wrong pig."

The sad reality of course is that whilst there has been no significant wars on the continent of Europe since 1945 we have however waged war elsewhere upon Asians and Arabs (amongst others) and such peoples have died in their millions. We now have the post millenium phenomenon of PNAC and the planned conquest of 7 nations by Washington to which 9/11 was the precursor- google General Wesley Clarke plan to invade 7 nations in 5 years), the Oded Yinon plan and the phenomenon of petrodollar/currency warfare in the Middle East and North Africa. So all in all it's not a pretty sight EU or no EU, NATO or no NATO. We are now instigating at our volition a potential military/nuclear confrontation with Russia and possibly China..so no I wouldn't say the world has necessarily become a safer place since WWII. To the contrary we now exist in reality in a state of perpetual war.

I am of course delighted by the Brexit result. The markets will speculate as they would always do against sterling (my late father was a City of London broker and would have expected nothing less I think) but it is the longer term perspective that will be the acid test for this exit vote. 

I didn't fall off my chair but I did trip over my pyjama bottoms rushing to the tv this morning though when my flat-mate told me the result.. 

https://www.youtube.com/v/z8ityb0Ips4

grT




   

..and on a lighter and more reassuring note at least things are under control on the other side of the Atlantic Hawk 

https://www.youtube.com/v/t02uy57V95M

grT   

[PS:@grt:]

PS:@grt: Single party state? No not at all..... Though a one world government would be good, though we are a few hundred years away from that yet..... We have a lot of growing-up to do before that could happen. Lol 

I hear what you are saying Hawk. In idealistic terms I would be tempted to agree with you..and I think I understand where you are coming from with this. Sadly in this present existence where power dwells corruption and some would say evil intention dwells also. So I'm not quite sure humankind is ready for the experiment of a one world government quite as yet. As you say as a species we lack the maturity at this point in time to even contemplate such a venture. Which is part of the reason I stand steadfastly against the EU.. For myself and many others believe there is a push taking place at the moment for a form of one world government. If this is so I would venture to suggest it is not quite the form of governance that good people such as you might be envisioning..

Anyway look I do not wish to go all weird on you. So I will leave it at that.   

As regards the U.K. where I was really coming from with my flippant comment was that I feel in reality there is no essential difference between a "Blairite" Labour government and a Tory government. Both I would say dance to the same tune. Some might say the exact same is true of the U.S.A. ..

Anyway, have a good evening. If a Leave majority vote is declared in the morning I will fall off my chair in shock.

See you, grT 

[general election]

I think many people listened too much to the Tories in the last general election about the scare-mongering of the SNP winning the election. LOL 

If people used their heads then they would realise that even in a general election they are only voting for their regional party and not for the whole country when polling their votes, so unless you lived in Scotland the SNP were never going to have any chance of winning their regional vote and yet a lot of people voted Tory because they thought that would stop any chance of the SNP gaining power.... How dumb can some people be! Lol      

Hawk.

"Single Party State" m8..

Opps..I might get told off by your Remain "spokesman" again.. 

Have a nice polling day folks!

grT   

If at first you don't succeed..



Interesting there are no exit polls operating on this one. Oh well, we'll all just have to wait for the "grand" and "final" result to be officially declared..

grT 

[Brexit is 'not deliverable', says David Cameron's father-in-law]

Brexit is 'not deliverable', says David Cameron's father-in-law

"Lord Astor, who is Samantha Cameron's step-father, has said that a Brexit would have "no legal standing" even if the public vote to leave the 28 member bloc in June."

"If the Brexiteers win, an exit from the EU is actually not deliverable. The EU referendum is merely advisory; it has no legal standing to force an exit."

"Parliament is still sovereign. We will need an Act of Parliament to revoke the European Communities Act 1972, by which Britain joined the EEC or Common Market, or perhaps a paving bill enabling the Government to start the Leave negotiations. But whatever, a vote will be required."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/brexit-is-not-deliverable-says-david-camerons-father-in-law/

I would have thought that was self-explanatory.

Now this seems quite interesting. A CNBC poll suggests that nearly half of Brexit supporters think the referendum is rigged. Quite am interesting phenomenon.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/22/nearly-half-of-brexit-supporters-think-the-referendum-is-rigged.html

grT

[other]

Yawn.

As an aside surely you are not stupid enough to believe the official story of 9/11 are you Max? Are you Max?? Maybe you are.. 

If I say I am stupid enough, will you stop spamming us with your enlightened theories ? Deal ?

If you really really insist, I'd suggest the admins to create a forum section called "The truth is in there" or "If you're stupid enough stay out of this section".
But again, I'm sure you can find much more empathy for your theories on other forums. And let us discuss "dumb" stuff here.
I mean, our stupidity could even start affecting you one day ... why insisting ?

Yawn.

grT, you not only presented the "EU is a pet project of the CIA" theory, but also the "Moon landing took place in Nevada" theory, the "9/11 is totally something else" theory and the "Babel tower vs Strasbourg building" theory. So I'm rather incredulous at your being rather incredulous at my stance on this "subject".

So no, I won't read any of this. Because if I do it then, for the sake of being fair, I'll have to read the "Earth is flat" theory, the "Nuclear fusion reaction at room temperature using a 9v battery and a glass of water" theory and the "I can cure your cancer on the tv/web, send me a payment and I'll show you" theory. And clearly, I prefer being punched in the face by a pro boxer for a few rounds than doing that.

@MaX: I raise my hat on how you firmly, yet not impolitely cheated the gallows very gallantly

She took me on a good day, but it won't last

Yawn.

As an aside surely you are not stupid enough to believe the official story of 9/11 are you Max? Are you Max?? Maybe you are.. 

grT 

grT   

@grT: Don't bear a grudge, MaX just saved you and himself much time which would have been wasted fruitlessly. You probably did not really hope to convince him, but probably would have loved the discussion itself. But some just don't see a reason to discuss things when the other party's point of view is obviously cemented already

@MaX: I raise my hat on how you firmly, yet not impolitely cheated the gallows very gallantly

I'm not one to bear grudges. I do not have on a personal level a "problem" with Max at all. I'm just rather incredulous at his stance on this subject that's all.

You see I presented for discussion not a conspiracy theory but an immutable fact that the EU is a creation of the CIA. This is not a theory. It is fact based upon official unclassified CIA documents.

So the raison d'etre of the EU is not what we have been led to believe. What I do find strange is Max's reaction. It's like a form of denial.


Every time someone makes fun of the idea of "conspiracy theories" they are exhibiting a conditioned response – like salivating when they hear a bell or believing a TV news program.

When asked if I am into conspiracy theories, I like to steal from Michael Moore and say, "Only the ones that are true." 

A ruder response (which I lifted from someone else) is perhaps: "Conspiracy Theorist? Now tell me the truth, where did you hear that term...on TV? (Laugh.) ...So let me get this straight. Are you saying that men in high positions of power are not capable of criminal activity and telling lies to the general public? That they are not capable of engaging in criminal agenda? Are you really that naive?" (Laugh as you say this.)

Anyway, look love and peace. Not that I was in anyway offended in the first place.

As a parting shot (a final parting shot) regardless of the referendum result I am personally not all that convinced we (the U.K.) would be allowed to leave anyway. Opps..there goes another conspiracy theory!

Take care all,
grT 

In case it wasn't yet clear to you, I decide to exercise my prerogative, your honour. Mostly because I find playing the gallery ultimately more useful in the grand scheme of things than discussing with nutters (no offence at large, some nutters are actually interesting to discuss with, but not this kind of nutters).

So yes, I will keep on laughing at all these "theories" and no I won't try to reply you on a serious tone due to lack of seriousness in the subject to start with.
Pondering about improbable conspiracies when your own not-so-secret services are screwing your civil rights on a daily basis in plain sight is like brushing your teeth to avoid cavities 5 minutes before walking the last mile in the death row. More concisely said, it's utterly useless. So I'll leave that to you.

But I'm sure you'll find plenty of other forums where plenty of other people will listen to plenty of your theories very seriously and provide plenty of even more intriguing ones: so why would you waste your time with me ? I'm a lost cause. Just give me the "I'm sorry for you, one day you'll understand"-look and move on.

CIA, EU what do I reckon ? I reckon one has 3 letters and the other has 2. Do you agree ?

So basically you haven't got a clue on this subject have you Max? That much now seems self evident.

Oh well. Over and out.

grT 

Well of course..academic "experts" bought and paid for (allegedly) or otherwise can be found everywhere at the moment commentating on the EU? So what?

What I am asking you to comment upon, however, more specifically is the revelation that the EU is a creation and project of the U.S. intelligence services and the implications of that fact to the forthcoming EU referendum. That is the point in question here if you so choose to address it. If you do not choose to address it then fair enough. That is your prerogative. But do you not think this is an important matter within the overall matter of the EU?

Now playing to the gallery aside Mr HornetMax, which possibly you might indulge in when things are not going to plan in a discussion, I am genuinely interested in your response..if that is you care to provide it? This matter, the EU referendum and the future of the EU, also has I would contend implications for the future of NATO. So it is quite important I would suggest.

As regards Babel, what I was seeking but failing to get you to ponder, are the possible links of the entity that owns a huge segment of the global wealth of this planet, back through time to its proximate place of origin. That was all. An interesting or not so interesting aside as it were, depending upon your perspective. Let's leave that one on the back burner shall we?

So CIA, EU. What do you reckon? If that is you feel happy to respond?

grT