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March 29, 2024, 06:02:25 AM

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GP Bikes beta21c available! :)


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Messages - rodney007

16
Quote from: WALKEN on November 12, 2014, 01:34:00 AM
Now this same person is back at starting trouble by being arrogant and thinking he knows better.  If someone feels more gifted than Piboso, then go develop your own game and run your own forums and see how that turns out.

really? is that how I am or are you just having a winge?

Oh and who is this person that feels more gifted than Piboso? From what I have read everyone is very appreciative of his efforts and wants to work with him. Or is this fueled by something else?
17
Quote from: WALKEN on November 10, 2014, 01:59:00 PM

"no offence" Rodney, but your feedback isn't very helpful for this community.

"you" are not the community. Walken,

Quote from: PiBoSo on November 10, 2014, 11:58:02 AM

There is nothing wrong in using "feelings" to tune the physics, because unfortunately there is a lot of data that cannot be got ( or that would be too difficult to get ) from the real world.
But at the very least the basic, known data should be accurately replicated: rake angle and geometry in general, mass, weight distribution, inertia, springs, aerodynamics, engine, gearbox, ...
Especially since bike and engine editors have been released.
If a modder just take the Murasama and turns it into a supermoto without even changing the springs, or with a rake angle that is half the real one, then this guy is not putting feeling over numbers: he's not even trying and he's just doing a VERY crappy work, that GP Bikes and ( most of ) its community don't deserve.

The bike had alot of work left in it. We did change springs and many other things through testing.... when something didn't work we took steps back and changed them. In this case the springs were left,

I am wanting to help nominate a group of people to help Piboso yet you guys keep bringing stuff back to me. I am not perfect and have never said I am therefore when people work collectively in a team
we can become more productive and really take this game to the next level!.

meh it aint gunna happen... I am glad I have voiced my opinion ... can't say I didn't try

I definatley don't take back the part of this game being a complete and utter MESS currently

I respect Piboso for his efforts and hard work - and have always said this throughout.

I wish the guys who PM me with support would have the balls to share there thoughts here more instead of me VS all

18
Quote from: WALKEN on November 09, 2014, 07:12:15 PM
I am making a point about realism is all.  And perspective in terms of what is real to the individual regardless of settings.

Like someone making a modded bike to overcome wobbles and feels the physics are wrong and in turn feels the mod has overcome this. Then feels they have the authority to test in a small group for future betas  prior to release.


maybe the thought of a group of guys relaying positive constructive feedback back to the developer is not a good idea...

how about we all just make the bikes 9999 HP and get fast laptimes like you?

in all seriousness though... I am wanting the most realistic racing simulator of all time, but maybe its just me and there are too many obstacles in the way such as Game devs and Forum sheriffs.

Quote from: grimm on November 09, 2014, 10:40:08 PM
I agree with your ideas and the approach you take. Seems that the community is rather divided by "Realism" (LOL, it's a friggin' game/sim in beta form) and "Immersion" (what you and I desire far more than real numbers that result in crap feeling bikes).

I still ride the KTM and the KX-F more regularly than anything else. The KTM was like a forecast for the future of GP Bikes, anyone that says beta 6c handles any different than beta 5 with the KTM are only looking to argue, the behavior you coaxed out of the KTM is the exact same way all the bikes handle now. Your work around for the bike to feel more real despite the underlying code, or whatever it is that caused the issues in the first place, was something I applaud, even if there is a "hardcore" group of modders that turn their collective nose up at you and spit on your shoes for doing a job they wouldn't even attempt.


I'm not a racer, but I am a rider, speed and lap times are not my idea of a good time on a bike.... so I fall into the category of a "pick up and ride" player on GP Bikes. I enjoy the feel of the bikes and the look and behavior of them on track, if they don't feel real I don't care for them. The new STK1000 pack feels dead and lifeless to me, a few of the WSS600 feel okay but still have what I would consider glaring issues for a player like me to enjoy them all that much, and I'm not a racer, a modder, or anyone that matters so my opinion means zero, hence why I don't say anything at all about the bikes I don't like.  ;)



I still think The Gent, the RC8, and the final version of the KX-F were pretty awesome for someone like me that is casual about gaming and moto simulations. Until someone actually does something about the lack of a proper controller  ::)  not much interests me in "real numbers".

Cheers dude, i really appreciate it. It was great getting your feedback on all the mods I made because I trusted your senses being a real rider and sim racer like myself. Its unfortunate that alot of these guys here are more concerned about "if real life is a 9, make it a 9 in the game regardless of how it feels". My mentality is "if real life is a 9, but 9 feels like shit in the game, make it 192837192 for all I care until it feels right.

however "feels right" and "on paper it must be right" is the battle we face here. From what I can see there are just too many barriers and mindless knumbskulls in this community to help it go forward, so many walls and so much narrowminded
dictator godlike worshiping of a higher power that anything else is not satisfactory.
19
Quote from: girlracerTracey on November 08, 2014, 09:40:15 AM
Quote from: Abigor on November 08, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
Quote from: nuovaic on November 08, 2014, 07:35:46 AM
Quote from: WALKEN on November 07, 2014, 07:21:57 PM

Fastest means nothing as you can manipulate setting in a strange way to achieve faster laps, I have done this for years.

Explain please.
+1.... Hahaha....yes please  ???

Are you talking about gp500 or god forbid gpbikes?

You sound like a very naughty man to me WALK3N and you probably deserve to have your bottom smacked and to be sent to bed early with a glass of milk! ;)

grT

:P
20
General Discussion / GPbikes in 4k?
November 08, 2014, 12:45:44 AM
Any fix for the screen being off-centre?
21
Quote from: Hawk_UK on November 07, 2014, 10:11:18 PM
@Rodney: Does this mean you'll consider releasing your TZ750?  ;D

Hawk.

Lets see what Piboso's stance is on the recent ideas of a team of guys working together to help him first. Then.... we can have many mod bikes each with
unique physics not only TZR....

22
General Discussion / Re: GP Bikes beta6c
November 08, 2014, 12:27:53 AM
Quote from: Hawk_UK on November 08, 2014, 12:02:35 AM
I must say that beta 6c is very enjoyable indeed when riding the YZF R6(Only other bike I've tried apart from the stock bikes). If this is anything to go by when the bike physics have been set-up properly on other bikes then beta 6c is a very good job indeed!  ;D
Having said that, the front end is still a little unstable but on the R6 it's way more stable than the stock bikes....

Still the obvious problems with core.exe crashes at times.... These seem in part to be caused on occasions by server lag when others are connecting and disconnecting(The screen freezes and then either core.exe's or manages to continue - seems somewhat random); also caused by track mesh artefacts like gaps between the track and terrain or any gaps in the track meshes(core.exe's for this reason are definitely replicable at will).

The respawn positioning is a big problem. It may have seemed a good idea to respawn in the centre of the track, but quite often this puts the respawned rider on or very close to the racing line and therefore a lot less avoidable for other riders. In my opinion a respawned rider would be a lot more avoidable if they respawned on the outer or inner edges of the track surface.

Then of course it would be nice to have the old rider back as an option for riding styles.

It would also be great to be able to MOD our own riders if that is possible?


Hawk.

The R6 feels much better however there is still a twitchy aspect to the bike. Visually there seems to be quite a bit of suspension travel when gently
on and off the throttle and as you say the front (although less wobble) has some stability issues.

Throttle steer feels good and the rear tire works for grip however the gap between traction and slide is too thin and at low speed can loose control a bit easy.

Stability on the brakes is also much better than the stock GP bike and feels quite good.

Though compared with the stock GP bike it is a huge improvement and would be considered as a "playable bike".
23
I understand previous comments in regards to the fact that you cant just grab a bike rider and hand him a controller to test a bike game as it is significantly different to a race driver siting in a simulator and being able to get fully into things.

I think in order to get the correct feedback you need to assign a small group of riders in real life who actively play this game
and are confident re the physics behind forum walls to be allowed to work without distractions.

I am willing to help on this front and have spent hours upon hours tweaking lines of settings to get the most feedback and true-to life experience and immersion from this game.

However as some may agree - through a process of delegation and changes through community feedback I feel we were able to get the KTM RC8 mod to a very VERY good place ,although there was alot of negative feedback most likely fueled by hatred towards me more so than genuine feedback.

I benefited hugely from the input and feedback others riders through the forum and as you could see would make changes and tried to find the balance although a challenge seemed to work great.

Some community members could not grasp the idea of simply bouncing changes off comment to comment however the process worked and is how many games such as PROJECT CARS has been handled.

So, for what its worth I am keen to put my hand up and help develop some prototype physics adjustments incorporating what I have learned from experimentation and hours of testing
alongside my skills with working on 3D to benefit the community with others members here.

Just to quickly reflect on some of the changes we made to the KTM RC8 bike was:

-Bike wobble reduced / nearly gone
-Front end stability and feedback
-Braking realism, strong on straight, ease off into corner
-Realistic tire heating values for front/rear
-Weight balance to help control the wheelie issue
-On-throttle steering and rear tire feedback

In my opinion these changes were not perfect and of course need fine tuning however I feel that these changes are what could benefit the new patch significantly.

By improving the base physics it also provides a base-line for new bike mods which means more time can be spent adjusting them to be unique to the geometry
in contrast to time being spent simply trying to fix the many problems first OR only releasing 3D mods as most are which seem quite pointless as this game is a simulator.


24
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 06, 2014, 10:39:48 PM
Quote from: rodney007 on November 06, 2014, 10:32:10 PM
For what its worth...

My GP-bikes install has little to almost no front-end wobble at all.

The change has no impact on other physics characteristics (from my testing).

So if an issue like wobble is only a couple of lines that need to be changed why is it not already fixed?

What lines?

Will PM you later.
25
For what its worth...

My GP-bikes install has little to almost no front-end wobble at all.

The change has no impact on other physics characteristics (from my testing).

So if an issue like wobble is only a couple of lines that need to be changed why is it not already fixed?
26
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 06, 2014, 09:51:45 AM
Quote from: rodney007 on November 06, 2014, 01:13:31 AM
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 05, 2014, 02:44:52 PM
Bottom line: GP Bikes physics improved greatly since Beta4. It is now, at last, a full fledged simulator. Only brakes need some more work to simulate temperature, wear and weight.
Problem is, physics parameters of the "stock" bikes have not be properly updated to match the changes. Virtual rider and dampers are the first coming to mind. However, some data has already been changed to be more realistic: springs, steer lock, aerodynamic.
State of the art doesn't mean realistic or simulation.

Yes it is: the algorithms used in Beta6 make GP Bikes a full fledged realistic simulator.

Quote
The features implemented are state of the art however they are not setup correctly..

What we are trying to say as although you think your game is perfect it is far from it. There are several members on this forum
that race or ride in real life who would be significantly beneficial to the development of the physics.

Did you read the reply to Abigor? Or Stout's excellent post?  ???

Quote
Considering you feel that not having race track experience has nothing to do with making a racing simulation just bit bit silly. Game developers engage with the community/professionals and make changes. Not just a few people but many to find the balance.

To quote myself:
The physics simulation is now the state of the art. So from now on you should not expect big changes, but a lot of parameters tuning. To do that, of course feedback is not only welcome, as always, but needed.

Did you read any of the posts in this thread?  >:(

Yes... even this part:

Quote from: PiBoSo on November 05, 2014, 08:14:58 PM
Quote from: yan24 on November 05, 2014, 08:09:45 PM
PIBOSO excuse me but I want to know if you've already driven a motorcycle on the track ???

What has this to do with making a simulator?
It's like asking Dall'Igna if he ever rode a MotoGP... ::)

To me you seem like someone with a very messy desk, you keep adding paper work without a correct filing system and moving to new documents because you thought the old ones where done.

Now documents are being left underneath and are being neglected. Although the fresh documents on top look good, and it may be easy to say "wait wait,... these documents are fresh and "state of the art" before you know it the stack of paper work will fall off the desk and you will be left in a pile messy crap (paper).

Now I am no wise pigeon however I think it doesn't take a genius to figure out how you go about managing your desk (game).

27
Quote from: girlracerTracey on November 06, 2014, 02:40:34 AM
The thought that keeps occurring to me if I am honest is this: How can anyone devise a motorcycle racing simulation in the absence of full & proper input, testing and ongoing consultation with individuals who race in real life or have done so in the past ?  Moreover what this project arguably ideally needs is the input of a professional motorcycle racer, either currently racing or retired, who can provide guidance & recommendation on development of the physics model so as to ensure, to the greatest extent possible, the realism & accuracy of the "on-track" behaviour of the racing motorcycles in this simulation.

It is my understanding that this is how the industry F1 simulators are developed and perfected. Input and consultation is made with real life F1 drivers from both a racing and/or testing background. This counterbalances the input from the engineers. An F1 simulator by its very nature, purpose and design must reflect as accurately as possible the real life on track behaviour & "feel" of a modern F1 racing car. 

My question is this: Now that PiBoSo and the development team are satisfied they have achieved a "base" physics model that incorporates all physical parameters and aspects deemed necessary to move this project forwards will any ongoing consulation now take place with an experienced real life motorcycle racer? Has any consideration been made in the past concerning the possibility of approaching a suitable candidate to invite them to assist in the development of the gpbikes project?

To my mind as gifted and as talented as PiBoSo and his team undoubtedly are it would make sense to consult with an individual who has extensive real world on-track experience. In saying this I do not mean in anyway to undermine the position or authority of PiBoSo in relation to this project. To the contrary my thinking in this would be to enhance it.

What are your honest thoughts?

grT

+1
28
Quote from: PiBoSo on November 05, 2014, 02:44:52 PM
Bottom line: GP Bikes physics improved greatly since Beta4. It is now, at last, a full fledged simulator. Only brakes need some more work to simulate temperature, wear and weight.
Problem is, physics parameters of the "stock" bikes have not be properly updated to match the changes. Virtual rider and dampers are the first coming to mind. However, some data has already been changed to be more realistic: springs, steer lock, aerodynamic.

I personally think you are a bit delusional about what/how you percieve the game to be currently....which is very frustrating.

State of the art doesn't mean realistic or simulation.

The features implemented are state of the art however they are not setup correctly..

What we are trying to say as although you think your game is perfect it is far from it. There are several members on this forum
that race or ride in real life who would be significantly beneficial to the development of the physics.

Considering you feel that not having race track experience has nothing to do with making a racing simulation just bit bit silly. Game developers engage with the community/professionals and make changes. Not just a few people but many to find the balance.

All in all I am personally extremely grateful for this game and your efforts, I think investing into this game was a positive but would like to see you work with people that know what they are talking about.

29
Quote from: Mac on November 05, 2014, 09:57:53 AM
Is it a troll topic?
Rodney (are you the Rodney we met time ago?) on every new Beta release some people is disappointed on some features but this time wobble and front wheel feeling are better than in beta5 without any doubt.
Chassis flexing isn't a noticeable feature, I mean without Piboso talking about this feature I think no one could notice that flex is implemented.

I tried wss600 for a nice amount of laps, I didn't notice any powerslide in 5th gear, only normal sliding on long bumped turns and high leaning angles (like long right turns in A1 Ring). The bike tends to highside only on first or second gear turns when a lot of throttle is applied, which is not far from real. So what are we talking about?

TCS and AW bring vibrations to the chassis due to the throttle cutting but I reveal a secret.. You may disable electronic controls and use your sensibility on the throttle..

I know that you can turn these aids off lol. However would be nice to have TCS and anti wheelie implemented and usable just like real motogp bikes. A real GP-bike has smooth
TCS and anti wheelie.

30
Quote from: yoshimura on November 05, 2014, 08:37:04 AM
flexible chassis, do not cash the real power, it softens the reactions carried out simple situations.A chassie be hard and soft at the same time, the rear slides and jumps, when the power comes.
(Stress of chassis is equal to the mass times the acceleration)

You must remember this is a game, before adding "new features" the ones already implemented should be of an acceptable level so that things don't become worse and lost.

I understand that chassis flex along with many other physics attributes are important but is it really that useful for this game?. Every time a patch is implemented the riding experience gets worse -
sure you can get some decent lap times and there will always be fast riders for this game, but as I know from racing motorbikes is that there is something seriously incorrect accross the board.

I just dont get how I can open the throttle completely in a lean and the moment the bike becomes up-right it instantly wheelies. therefore you must be leaning to go fastest even in a straight line!

Aside from the wobble the bikes are twitchy and bouncy left, right, up and down. Even using a G25 wheel trying to be precise as possible I get such little feedback its miserable. The feedback from the brakes and front tyre
is very bad and how the gear shifts down is also bad. the TCS and anti wheelie are far to obvious are reduce way to much power that the bike vibrates.