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July 29, 2021, 07:28:48 PM

News:

World Racing Series beta14 available! :)


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1
Plugins / Re: MaxHUD plugin
Last post by Myst1cPrun3 - Today at 09:32:49 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 28, 2021, 11:03:21 PMI mean the rumble is useless, not the entire plugin. Hopefully :)
And even if it's far beyond what you can do, if it's useless then well, it's useless :)

Fair enough  ;)

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 28, 2021, 11:03:21 PMMaxHUD also works for MXB, so in principle one could compare my rumble implementation with PiBoSo's in MXB.
Or wait for PiBoSo to make it available in GPB too.


That, is a very good point and one that completely slipped my mind. Well I know what I'm trying this weekend   ;D

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 28, 2021, 11:03:21 PMYour bike speed (as in chassis speed) could be 200.00Kmh, your rear wheel speed could be identical to that, 200.00Kmh. And yet you could be slipping like mad, laterally.



Yes, I agree here. At the minute it's the low speed grip losses, mainly rear washouts, where I'm having trouble ATM. Not sure how useful wheel speed differences would be in this situation if at all, as it's neutral throttle, wheels in line at most.

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 28, 2021, 11:03:21 PMEstimating slipping (lateral and longitudinal) from usually known observables (chassis speed, wheelspeeds etc) is far from easy. I tried something very rough in HUDLean, showing the difference in direction (angle) of the chassis velocity vector versus the chassis orientation (i.e. showing when the bike is not moving in the direction it is pointing to) but it didn't seem very useful to me.


This may not be too useful as a
graphical readout, as there's not much you could do with it I don't think.

However it would be interesting to see how this would relate if integrated with 'rumble'. Maybe as we start going 'out of line' the rumble starts, and progressively gets larger until a crash? Not sure. But it could be useful in situations I tthink, even as a placebo for tyre grip. (Tricking the player into 'feeling' grip loss)

But I'm not an expert, only way I'd know is if I could try it.

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 28, 2021, 11:03:21 PMI'm sure GPB internally has longitudinal slip and lateral slip computed (they are inputs in the tire model) but PiBoSo probably does not want to expose these as you wouldn't have them on a real bike telemetry. I tend to agree with him on that point.


Interesting. So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say youre trying to get 'rumble' to represent the dataset generated by a bike?

I understand for graphical out puts.

For me personally, with rumble, I'm looking for the vibrations to represent the 'seat of the pants' feeling lost by using a game pad instead of a motorcycle. One of the big things for me that is lost is the tyre flex and slip, as the tyre is the first line of suspension. How that tyre flexes/loads seems to be a huge part of how bike behaviour is "understood" by the rider.

One thing that is shown to me however, is the Virtual Rider seems to limit the bikes lean based on where the "maximum grip" is. Now, I know there isn't a "Max Grip" Setting, and I know that's not how it works, but that seems to be the effect that is represented in GP Bikes.

For me if that barrier could be 'removed' and replaced with progressive Vibration, (The closer to the point where the VR intervenes the higher the vibration) this would give much more useful feedback, and give the player a bit more control.

I'm aware the "barrier" isn't necessarily something that can be removed in a plugin, but maybe the vibration could be implemented? Maybe as a separate check box, with threshold settings adjusting how close you have to get to the value before it kicks in and so on?

As for the real world, I don't know much about sensors and stuff, but Honda MotoGP team reportedly has a light on the dash that illuminates when the tyre is approaching grip loss. It's all rumours but I wouldn't be surprised if such a sensor existed.

If there was one You'd possibly have to look to WSBK however rather than MotoGP due to the more advanced electronics over there.
2
Plugins / Re: MaxHUD plugin
Last post by HornetMaX - July 28, 2021, 11:03:21 PM
Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on July 28, 2021, 07:02:58 AMI didn't want to go so far as saying it's useless, as the entire plugin is far beyond what I'm capable of making, and it's really, really good, but the rumble isn't what I wanted out of it  :)
I mean the rumble is useless, not the entire plugin. Hopefully :)
And even if it's far beyond what you can do, if it's useless then well, it's useless :)

Quote from: Myst1cPrun3 on July 28, 2021, 07:02:58 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 27, 2021, 08:12:26 PMBTW, MXB has controller rumble integrated since beta13.
Haven't tried, but I wouldn't be surprised if PiBoSo implementation was better than my one :)

Yes I have seen it. It's hard to judge what's better when ones on dirt and ones on tarmac, due to the fact they're inherently different disciplines that provide different styles and thus different feedback.

I wish it would be implemented on GPB to get a direct comparison however, but nice work with what you got available.  ;D
MaxHUD also works for MXB, so in principle one could compare my rumble implementation with PiBoSo's in MXB.
Or wait for PiBoSo to make it availabl ein GPB too.

My impressions: in MXB you get rumble on jumps/landings and when crossing ruts: that's probably enough to generate some immersion. In GPB it's a different story ...

Quote from: Vini on July 28, 2021, 10:18:48 AMBut where is the problem using the wheelspeed for slip detection (second rumble mode)?
Your bike speed (as in chassis speed) could be 200.00Kmh, your rear wheel speed could be identical to that, 200.00Kmh. And yet you could be slipping like mad, laterally.

Estimating slipping (lateral and longitudinal) from usually known observables (chassis speed, wheelspeeds etc) is far from easy. I tried something very rough in HUDLean, showing the difference in direction (angle) of the chassis velocity vector versus the chassis orientation (i.e. showing when the bike is not mocing in the direction it is pointing to) but it didn't seem very useful to me.

I'm sure GPB internally has longitudinal slip and lateral slip computed (they are inputs in the tire model) but PiBoSo probably does not want to expose these as you wouldn't have them on a real bike telemetry. I tend to agree with him on that point.
3
Plugins / Re: MaxHUD plugin
Last post by Vini - July 28, 2021, 10:18:48 AM
But where is the problem using the wheelspeed for slip detection (second rumble mode)?
4
Suggestions and wishlist / Tyre Slip Output/Controller Vi...
Last post by Myst1cPrun3 - July 28, 2021, 07:09:39 AM
Following a recent discussion, I feel like adding tyre slip as something that can be shown in plugins would be useful.

I don't know if that's the right way of saying it, but I'll try and explain.

Using MaxHUD's inbuilt rumble, I had decent feel from the suspension and chassis, however there was no feeling from when the tyre approached the limit of grip/started sliding.

(This is an exaggerated issue on the HP4 Race I found due to the different tyre/suspension values I have tried)

It really seems to harm the overall riding experience, to the point I never even used 'rumble' for over 2 years when I started.

Having the ability to add a growing vibration as the limit of tyre grip is approached, and exceeded would be incredibly useful for me personally.

Now whether this is released as a plugin option or as part of a standard controller vibration integration I don't know.

Would just be nice to have.

 :)
5
Plugins / Re: MaxHUD plugin
Last post by Myst1cPrun3 - July 28, 2021, 07:02:58 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on July 27, 2021, 08:12:26 PMTo be honest I always thought that the rumble as implemented in the pluigin is close to useless and just cosmetic. It won't give you more "feeling". At best it should only be able to translate some blatant vibrations (like passing over kerbs, or bike weave/wobble). But some seems to like it so that's it.

I mean for the first 2 and a bit years of GPB I didn't use it. (Other parts of your plug in like standings, fuel etc but not rumble.)

I didn't want to go so far as saying it's useless, as the entire plugin is far beyond what I'm capable of making, and it's really, really good, but the rumble isn't what I wanted out of it  :)

I just thought I'd try 5o see if I could solve some (seemingly) random falls I was having, and see if I could get it set up for my liking, as it could be an advantage.

I got it relatively close, but the tyre slip response seemed to be the missing 'part' for me ATM.

I'll pop it in the 'Suggestions and Wishlist' topic  :)

Quote from: HornetMaX on July 27, 2021, 08:12:26 PMBTW, MXB has controller rumble integrated since beta13.
Haven't tried, but I wouldn't be surprised if PiBoSo implementation was better than my one :)

Yes I have seen it. It's hard to judge what's better when ones on dirt and ones on tarmac, due to the fact they're inherently different disciplines that provide different styles and thus different feedback.

I wish it would be implemented on GPB to get a direct comparison however, but nice work with what you got available.  ;D
6
Plugins / Re: MaxHUD plugin
Last post by HornetMaX - July 27, 2021, 08:12:26 PM
The rumble simply takes the acceleration (X/Y/Z) of the CoG of the chassis, passes it throught a high-pass filter (component by component), take the norm and map this linearly between min/max rumble (if above a given threshold).

In simpler words, it translates "how much your chassis is shaking" (for whichever reason it is shaking).
It is not directly tied to the tires slipping. As you guessed, GPB does not provide a "tire slip" signal to the plugin (and for once I tend to agree with the coice, this is not something that should be exposed).

To be honest I always thought that the rumble as implemented in the pluigin is close to useless and just cosmetic. It won't give you more "feeling". At best it should only be able to translate some blatant vibrations (like passing over kerbs, or bike weave/wobble). But some seems to like it so that's it.

BTW, MXB has controller rumble integrated since beta13.
Haven't tried, but I wouldn't be surprised if PiBoSo implementation was better than my one :)
7
Suggestions and wishlist / Re: More Weather Options in De...
Last post by TimboC137 - July 27, 2021, 06:17:50 PM
You can set the % of wet in the dedicated.ini. track_conditions = 0.1; is 10% wet, for example
8
General Discussion / Re: State of the Union ( GPB b...
Last post by adrmelandri - July 27, 2021, 05:57:44 PM
I've been playing since 2014, and if I can wait that long to get here, the Beta 19, I can definitely wait for Beta 20 and future releases.

Even reading the development daily updates already makes me happy, satisfied, and even glad to know that you are in fact always working on this. Plus, we know you're working not only on one project, so the fact that you can always keep them on track simultaneously is a huge respect. Looking forward to any news as Mimo said ;D
9
Suggestions and wishlist / More Weather Options in Dedica...
Last post by adrmelandri - July 27, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
I was wondering if adding more options for the weather set in the dedicated.ini is possible?
For instance, if we want to run a dedicated server with Wet surface, I hope we can have the option to set the percentage of how wet the track be.
I also hope to be able to customize different weather for different sessions. I think would be cool to have, for example, a rainy session in WUP but only wet and not rainy in the race, so far I realize that this is not implemented for a realistic weather option, as the WUP always gets the same weather as the race. Thanks!
10
General Discussion / Re: GP Bikes beta20 WIP
Last post by Alex Nogueira - July 24, 2021, 03:12:14 PM
I'm a little outdated, but Piboso is it possible to dream of a changeable climate during a race, for example it starts raining and with time the sun appears and the track dries up?
(sorry for english)
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