Gpbikes videos ;)

[HornetMaX]

I see what you mean, I just don't think it's actually usable. How would you get the samples at different engine loads ?
We've already trouble getting only 2 sets of samples (throttle fully OFF, throttle fully ON), you're asking for more sets.

As it was "planned"... Setting up a place where we could test bikes (dyno ?) and where we could record sounds at will... In any cases, we are still in the same situation, where we need some sounds. But before thinking about making sounds for this 3rd layer, it should be implemented in the build already. 

But even assuming you can get 3 (or more sets of samples), you'd still need to smoothly transition from one to the next .
So basically you' d be applying the very same strategy in use right now, but with more sets to play with. I do doubt the difference is that big for our purpose.

Everything I've seen around seems to use the same approach as Piboso.

This engine sounds simulation technique is pretty old actually, it's been used in games/projects older than GPB. And in most cases, it was enough, even if not perfect in term of realism.

It's petty old because there's nothing newer and significantly better.
The only progress since are on the synthesis side (i.e. a sound engin ecapable of creating engine sound without samples).

As for this pdf, looks complicated. I can't imagine all the work to do just for one sample.. :\

What s proposed in the pdf is pretty simple in fact and not far from what done in GPB.
Except the "main harmonics" stuff, the only major difference I see is the dependency of the overall sound intensity on the throttle and torque.

MaX.

[Eagle]

So basically you' d be applying the very same strategy in use right now, but with more sets to play with. I do doubt the difference is that big for our purpose.

Pretty much, but this 3rd layer has it's own behavior as well, which would push the realism faithfulness a bit further. Also, with it's help, pretty much all the sound behaviors of any engine are simulated (globally).

After, if there is another technique more efficient than this one, then why not ?.. I'm not against any other ideas. Just proposing one.

It's petty old because there's nothing newer and significantly better.
The only progress since are on the synthesis side (i.e. a sound engin ecapable of creating engine sound without samples).

And there's none we can get to make our samples or use for gpb. xD

[HornetMaX]

And there's none we can get to make our samples or use for gpb. xD

One simple thing: get nice samples form a dyno run, for both OFF and on throttle. With decent equipment and a knowledgeable person.
I'm sure this would give nice results without any change to the current GPB sound system.

After that, there's always room for improvement. But going for something more sophisticated won't make out life any simpler. On the contrary ...

MaX.

[Eagle]

After that, there's always room for improvement. But going for something more sophisticated won't make out life any simpler. On the contrary ...

The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ?

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

[HornetMaX]

The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ?

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

Yes, but there's a point where it becomes too much. In the end this is still a game: if modding becomes too hard, nobody will mod.

I think I've seen this happen on car sim: when the tyre model became too complex, modders were essentially unable to create new tyres. Bad.

MaX.

[Hawk]

After that, there's always room for improvement. But going for something more sophisticated won't make out life any simpler. On the contrary ...

The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ?

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

+1 I totally agree with you SAS. 

The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ?

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

Yes, but there's a point where it becomes too much. In the end this is still a game: if modding becomes too hard, nobody will mod.

I think I've seen this happen on car sim: when the tyre model became too complex, modders were essentially unable to create new tyres. Bad.

MaX.

Well if I know true modders, they will be busy learning exactly how to do any greater complexity that arrives in any game or sim. It will only be the lazy non-motivated ones that will drop by the wayside. Forgive my bluntness, but anything worth doing is worth working at to get it right..... We should never settle for second best out of pure laziness to learn how to do something. 

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ?

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

Yes, but there's a point where it becomes too much. In the end this is still a game: if modding becomes too hard, nobody will mod.

I think I've seen this happen on car sim: when the tyre model became too complex, modders were essentially unable to create new tyres. Bad.

Well if I know true modders, they will be busy learning exactly how to do any greater complexity that arrives in any game or sim. It will only be the lazy non-motivated ones that will drop by the wayside. Forgive my bluntness, but anything worth doing is worth working at to get it right..... We should never settle for second best out of pure laziness to learn how to do something. 

I'd very much like to see you (or others here) trying to get a grasp of a 3d finite element thermo-elastic dynamic model of a tyre, just out of motivation ...

And even if we assume a very motivated (and competent) modder can get a grasp of it, getting the data for that is really really out of reach.

MaX.

[Hawk]

The goal is still to simulate realism the most faithfully if i'm not mistaken ?

It's kinda more important than something being hardly more difficult.

Yes, but there's a point where it becomes too much. In the end this is still a game: if modding becomes too hard, nobody will mod.

I think I've seen this happen on car sim: when the tyre model became too complex, modders were essentially unable to create new tyres. Bad.

Well if I know true modders, they will be busy learning exactly how to do any greater complexity that arrives in any game or sim. It will only be the lazy non-motivated ones that will drop by the wayside. Forgive my bluntness, but anything worth doing is worth working at to get it right..... We should never settle for second best out of pure laziness to learn how to do something. 

I'd very much like to see you (or others here) trying to get a grasp of a 3d finite element thermo-elastic dynamic model of a tyre, just out of motivation ...

And even if we assume a very motivated (and competent) modder can get a grasp of it, getting the data for that is really really out of reach.

MaX.

Oh I'm sure you could get a grasp of that Max; I'd be surprised if you didn't already know at least the basics of it.... You strike me as the sort of person that enjoys learning exactly how things work and why, and the maths and details behind these kind of things. 

If it's required, meaning that if a project requires very detailed technical skills etc, etc.... then it's up to the modder to get a team together to be able to handle those requirements... "Were there's a will there's a way".  Good modders usually find a way of doing what they need to do even, if on really difficult projects, it may take them some time to complete.

Hawk.
Edit: I think the most important thing for modders is for the developer to give them the tools to do the job required.

[HornetMaX]

Oh I'm sure you could get a grasp of that Max; I'd be surprised if you didn't already know at least the basics of it.... You strike me as the sort of person that enjoys learning exactly how things work and why, and the maths and details behind these kind of things. 

The basics maybe, the details definitely not. And that's me: if in the entire community only 1-2 are up to the job, it's not good.

If it's required, meaning that if a project requires very detailed technical skills etc, etc.... then it's up to the modder to get a team together to be able to handle those requirements... "Were there's a will there's a way".  Good modders usually find a way of doing what they need to do even, if on really difficult projects, it may take them some time to complete.

It's not a matter of will. For some people it will be totally out of reach, no matter the will. For the vast majority it will be doable, but only after taking 3-4 graduate-level courses. So, in parctice, it's a no go.

Edit: I think the most important thing for modders is for the developer to give them the tools to do the job required.

At that level of complexity, tools will not help. Academic world is full of open source tools for plenty of complex jobs. They are often open source even. But if one doesn't can't ahve the bases to use them ...

MaX,

[Eagle]

>Max

Well, what i will say will sounds dumb.. But this third layer could be optional ? Like, inserting a boolean token at the beginning of the scl (parsed like the rest) "3rdLayer true", and depending on this line, GPB would switch between one or the other system..

I don't think Piboso would make that though...

But in any cases, as i said, the difficulty is to find sounds, not especially implementing them or change two things in the sound simulation.

[Yohji]

https://www.youtube.com/v/sz1U0PEFDfI
I get the good battle till race finish.

[BOBR6 84]

Nice one Yohji 

[BOBR6 84]

with the 1988 suzy 

https://www.youtube.com/v/HFKoSzc7SSM

[Blackheart]

with the 1988 suzy 

https://www.youtube.com/v/HFKoSzc7SSM

XD Very Nice, i love these stuff 

[davidboda46]

Phillip Island, Ducati 1199 R SBK, Lap time: 1.34.800 (massive mistake at the end of the lap).
Was hard to keep the lines and hitting the apex because of recording lag.
Bike settings default, except for 14 L fuel, TC 0, EB 4, AW 0. Rider: Manual L/R, Auto F/B 
Controller: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1544.0
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZvVf4Ai6kU4
Cheers,
/David "Gonzo" Boda #46