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[Old] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)

Started by Italian Mod Team, January 06, 2018, 08:11:14 PM

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Tosteetos

January 13, 2018, 10:57:22 PM #60 Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 11:51:12 PM by Tosteetos
Quote from: doubledragoncc on January 09, 2018, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: Tosteetos on January 09, 2018, 03:06:57 PM
Agree with many, engine needs a bit more power, bike should be wheeling on 3rd easily, otherwise I really enjoy this bike. looking forward to the updates.Thank you for your support of this community with quality content IMT.  ;)

I just want to ask if you have riden this bike in real life and can therefore say "it should wheelie in 3rd gear"? Such input needs to be factual and not "how you imagine it should be"

I say this as many critics seem to be from pure imagination and not factual from havin riden this bike.

To help the modders, people should say if they have actually riden the bike in real life and they are not just "I think it should be...."

Not putting anyone down but this is a sim built on facts not what you THINK

DD

Not talking about what I THINK,  you don't have to go far to know this, anyone who knows how a 2 stroke behaves knows. >>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3xrTFQXPGo Also, were the Moto GP bikes here ridden by anyone before being modded for GP Bikes? I'm not the only one saying this bike needs more power read the other comments. 

Italian Mod Team

The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us, because the mmx500 has been tested in spa francorchamps (Eau Rouge...) Anyway the bike has just a engine map less rude, the power it's right.

Tosteetos

January 13, 2018, 11:39:55 PM #62 Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 11:47:10 PM by Tosteetos
I'm referring to the mapping. That's what dictates where you put the power, the bike feels flat in 3rd+ gear. It is a 2 stroke. 


uberslug

Quote from: Tosteetos on January 13, 2018, 11:39:55 PM
I'm referring to the mapping. That's what dictates where you put the power, the bike feels flat in 3rd+ gear. It is a 2T.

IIRC most of the 500 GP demigods, mechanics, and engine designers spent countless thousands of hours trying to tame the 500cc two stroke engine to make it more tractable and user friendly. Honda's Big Bang [a concept still in use today in the Desmocedici, the RC213V, the M1, etc., etc., etc] engines of the early 90s and their power valve of 97. Just because it feels flat doesn't mean it isn't accelerating.

Tosteetos

You are right uberslug, the bike is plenty fast, but the power delivery is fairly flat, this is not characteristic of this bike is what I meant.

uberslug

From the articles I have read about the port control valves the intention of the designers was to provide as wide and flat power delivery as possible. This is also the reasoning behind it being 576cc.

"The formerly 56 x 50.5mm engine is stroked 8mm in the interest of making genuine 500cc GP horsepower without having to run sky-high compression, find original $32-a-liter chemistry-set no-lead gasoline or turn a zillion crankshaft-eating rpm (can you say "isopentane, MTBE, toluene, triptane, and iso-octane"?)."

"A Mec-Tronic ECU manages fueling through four unitized EFI throttle bodies atop carbon reed valve intakes. Engine torque curve is broadened at the bottom by the period-correct variable-height exhaust port technology."



Tosteetos

January 14, 2018, 12:36:40 AM #67 Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 12:56:33 AM by Tosteetos
Did you guys watch the video from the actual bike?  This thing wheelies on 4th.  This is what I meant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3xrTFQXPGo


Tosteetos

January 14, 2018, 01:00:39 AM #68 Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 01:19:06 AM by Tosteetos
Also, the bike is not turning right, it pushes like crazy on the exits. It just wants to keep going straight coming out of corners. Someone suggested using the rear brakes but that will only help with turn in, not with corner exit.

badexample69

Quote from: Tosteetos on January 14, 2018, 12:36:40 AM
Did you guys watch the video from the actual bike?  This thing wheelies on 4th.  This is what I meant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3xrTFQXPGo

Totally, the dude short shift the bike like hell to keep the front wheel on the tarmac. The bike needs more cojones! It will also add to the funfactor and gameplay!  The power to weight ratio is pretty stupid. I also noticed an issue with the front maybe? It seem that the bike under steer even with a 10mm shim on the rear????? Anybody else noticed that? Rake and trail maybe? :(


badexample69

Quote from: Tosteetos on January 14, 2018, 01:00:39 AM
Also, the bike is not turning right, it pushes like crazy on the exits. It just wants to keep going straight coming out of corners.


That guy is right^^^ :)


Syd

Quote from: Italian Mod Team on January 13, 2018, 11:23:07 PM
The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us, because the mmx500 has been tested in spa francorchamps (Eau Rouge...) Anyway the bike has just a engine map less rude, the power it's right.
Agreed the engine has a less rude map than the old 500s, but the power delivery does still seem wrong. It doesn't take much effort to google some Suter riders' opinions and quotes saying there is a powerband, if a broader one than the old bikes. I hope you update it to a 2t engine. Please!



uberslug

Quote from: Syd on January 14, 2018, 10:01:46 AM
Quote from: Italian Mod Team on January 13, 2018, 11:23:07 PM
The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us, because the mmx500 has been tested in spa francorchamps (Eau Rouge...) Anyway the bike has just a engine map less rude, the power it's right.
Agreed the engine has a less rude map than the old 500s, but the power delivery does still seem wrong. It doesn't take much effort to google some Suter riders' opinions and quotes saying there is a powerband, if a broader one than the old bikes. I hope you update it to a 2t engine. Please!

Perhaps the answer is to have multiple mappings just like the MotoGP bikes? That way I can happily slug it around while the 2Ters can happily loop it in fourth gear. The current mapping allows me to hoist the front end up in second and hold longish [for me anyway] third gear power wheelies without worrying about falling off the back.

Tosteetos

January 14, 2018, 01:40:08 PM #74 Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 02:15:27 PM by Tosteetos
 First of all, to the IMT,  Please understand we are not bashing the bike or your work. -- I personally love everything you put out and have the greatest respect for you and all modders-- We are, however, collectively trying to refine it. And that is to be expected being this project community driven. I think this bike is shaping out to be a master piece of your work, and I'm excited to see and use the final product.

I do think that if you develop for your community (not for yourself,) you should expect constructive feedback. The little time I have in the community, the pride everyone takes in the fact that this is a simulator, is always above everything else, and I love that. There's nothing quite like GPB out there. I was just called out asking if my input was based on having personally ridden the bike in real life. I think that was silly because I'm sure not one of the Moto GP bikes modders has thrown a leg over one, but I applaud it because we want this to be as close to the real deal as possible. So obviously the community is passionate about keeping this sim true to what Piboso intended. Again, I applaud that. Because this is the most serious Sim, is the reason I'm here.

With that being said, I don't think that the answer "The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us" embodies what this sim and community is about.  We can't "want" a power limitation if it is not there to begin with, just because the bike is easier to ride. The challenge in this is to be able to ride the bike with all of its original character and for the bike to be as true to it's original design as possible.

Just my humble opinion.