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June 14, 2021, 10:25:13 PM

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My take on MotoGP 2021 round 6, the Italian GP, part one.

Started by davidboda46, June 01, 2021, 03:31:05 PM

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davidboda46

My first article about the 2021 Italian GP. The second one will focus on the MotoGP race. The first one is for Jason.

https://mythoughtsabout2wheels.blogspot.com/2021/06/rideinpeaceJason.html

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

Hawk

Good point about the changes in MotoGP to make the racing closer have contributed to the races becoming unsafer for the riders than when the riders were more spread out through the field.

I must say that I was saying this many years ago when debating that the changes in the bikes that have taken away many of the riders personal skills and given them to the bikes computers in order to allow the bikes and riders to keep the grid closer during the race event and so called more entertaining for the spectators....

It may be more entertaining to have most of the riders racing closer to each other, but even in the previous classic years without the use of computers on bikes when actual rider skills determined who won a race there was also plenty of close racing, just that there was less of it throughout the whole field.

But in my opinion, the sport has long sold it's soul to the devil to make sure that the whole field is more entertaining for the fans than it was before, and the point I'm trying to make here is that track safety for MotoGP bikes/riders is one thing, but when you start messing about taking away pure rider skills that allow lesser skilled riders to keep with the more naturally skilled riders that previously would've opened a gap from them then things are going to start getting dangerous....

Many times in the classic era you'd hear the top riders saying that they didn't like slowing down too much to entertain the spectators more by letting the slower riders catch up and race with them cause many were just idiots that rode well beyond their capabilities and often made stupid mistakes that could end in an accident between riders..... And yet here we have a situation in the death of a rider a few days ago which was caused by two riders clashing with each other, probably through idiocy from one or the other riders, and a life was sadly lost.

I suggest the bikes go back to being a pure man and machine marriage rather than allowing computers to handle the finer skills many riders don't have, at least that way the more skilled riders can easily keep away from the idiots on track by using their greater natural skillsets to keep that space between them at will.
One added bonus with doing this would be that the riders will have more of a sense of danger too on track cause they know they cannot rely on the computers to get them out of tricky situations on many occasions. Traction control especially has allowed riders of lesser skills to take more risk - take that away and suddenly they have to learn good throttle control or they're down the road on their arse.... That will make them a lot less likely to push the limits knowing they cannot get away with mistakes.

davidboda46

Hi Hawk.

First of all, thanks for reading the article. Appreciate it a lot.   

I don't think the riders are less skilled per se, it's just different. Most of them come up the ranks on machines with little to no electronic aids (just look at how many of them have a background in motocross) and I don't think you could reach world championship level if you don't have excellent throttle control.

Jason's accident was not two riders coming together, he high-sided on the exit of the corner and the rider behind hit him. It was during QP so everybody was pushing. The Moto3 bikes are so equal in performance, and around Mugello, positioning and slipstream plays such a huge part in a good lap time. So the riders try to be as close as possible to the one in front of them on corner exit, and if the rider in front makes a mistake, the rider behind has no time to avoid him/her. At turn 9, where the accident happened, there is also a crest so it's difficult for the riders to see if there is someone lying on track, and it's in those kind of blind places where there are bigger risks when things go wrong (in this case, that did not play a part in it since the rider was directly behind). There was really no one to blame for the accident, it was just unfortunate and tragic.

And I don't know how it is in Moto3, but MotoGP riders prefer to have as little electronic engagement as possible, especially when the tires start to lose grip at the last part of the race. They turn the traction control down because it cuts in too much and ruins their drive out of the corners, so they prefer to control it with the throttle instead. I think the TC and EM is more used to make the tires and the fuel last over the entire race distance (that's a topic for discussion in itself), although, I am sure that with the HP of the MotoGP bikes, there would be a lot more accidents without TC. My main issue isn't that the bikes have traction control, my issue is that it interferes too much, it should be set to be a safety device, so when it does go wrong, there is chance of the rider not being flung to the moon and back.   

I know you're a big fan of the old school days, so am I, and I think both of us would prefer if there were less electronic aids on the bikes, but in this particular case, I doubt it would have made any difference. And it's not like the 500s didn't spit riders off on a regular basis , there were plenty of simular incidents back then. An example is Uncini's accident at Assen in 1993. https://www.gpone.com/en/2021/05/31/motogp/from-uncinis-miracle-to-dupasquiers-drama.html Sidenote, not a huge fan of Gpone as a lot of their reporting is sensationalist click-bate, but they had the clip of the Uncini incident...   

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46     
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

neoraptor

Hi David and Hawk !
I appreciate your article.

Concerning the level of riders, I don't agree and think we never had that many talent on the grid.
The sport is much more professional than back then and preparation of riders is overall much better (physically/mentally). Only being a raw talent is not enough anymore and they are all working very hard.

Dorna did a good job on the regulation to level the differences between manufacturers as well. There is still room for innovation, but at least we don't see only 1 or 2 manufacturers fighting for the title as in the past.

I enjoy seeing the differences between manufacturers as it is really tight, while the bikes don't have the same strength.

Of course the electronics has its downside, but since electronic+software is the same for everyone on the grid, it reduces greatly the development margin on this side, which is not a bad thing I think.
It also help reduce the riders injury.

Beginning of 2010, when the spec electronics were not mandatory, it gave a lot more performance than today (Factory Honda / Yam had it sorted to save tyres while the other were playing catch up). Now, it is more simple than in the past (no way to adjust TC automatically, map need to be changed manually, ...)

In Moto2 were there is no TC, we see that the playing field is very leveled, and there is still raw talent (Raul Fernandez is a good example).

Overall, I think we are again in a great period to enjoy MotoGP.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. Confucius
>> Wiki to help modders <<

Hawk

Hi David, neoraptor....

I'm not really saying that the riders of today are less skilled than their classic rider counterparts, I know todays riders are all very talented or they wouldn't be in MotoGP's at all. But my point is that the cream talents are, I feel, at a greater disadvantage than they were back in the classic days in that the electronic aids do help those lesser talents in comparison to ride on, how shall I say, more equal terms with the cream of the crop than they could back in the classic days which is obviously why we now see much closer rider fields throughout the full length of the GP races..... Personally I don't think that is really in the true spirit of the sport of racing. And remember that those that appear to be currently cream of the crop, the likes of Marquez, etc, etc, may not actually be the true cream of the crop should they be forced to ride without rider aids. They may just be the riders that get on a lot better when using rider aids.

But it's good that the electronic aids have been greatly reduced over the last 5+ years or so. At least it is going in the right direction so long as they continue to reduce the aids overall as the years go by, hopefully eventually to a zero electronic aid status so I could again greatly respect the talent on show.

Moto 2: Great that they have no rider aids, but the fact that they are all still so close together in the GPs tells me that there is something there that is a problem as far as marking out the cream of the crop from the rest?
Are their engines tightly regulated & limited to a certain power & torque output or some other rule that makes all their bikes virtually on totally equal terms to each other? Maybe "Meyer", who races in the Moto 2 class, could enlighten us on that if he see these posts? But yeah, at least they are riding without aids which is good.

As for the crash: I agree that there obviously was nothing the riders could do in that terrible collision..... At the time I wrote my post I had only heard that they had collided, I didn't realise that matey had just previously high-sided his bike right in front of the other guy.... A very unfortunate and sad incident.


Nice article David.... I enjoyed reading it mate!

poumpouny

Moto 2 is the best exemple for discovering really talented rider. Same Engine for all / No electronics ... the only problem is that i think moto 3 is better to prepare rider for moto GP than moto 2. I Think Pedro Acosta will be a better Moto Gp rider than a moto 2 rider .......

davidboda46

@Hawk, neoraptor, poumpouny

Moto2 bikes have electronics now. It changed when they switched to Triumph. From https://www.cycleworld.com/motogp-racers-praise-new-triumph-moto2-engine-and-magneti-marelli-electronics/:
 
Magneti Marelli supplies a spec ECU with a datalogger, an IMU, a dash, rider's switch panel, and the software to run all of it. The Triumph engine is more powerful, Marquez noted. "We can see they are around 300 kph [186 mph] at the end of the straights. I think it will be better because it's closer to a MotoGP bike." As of Saturday afternoon, Thai rider Somkiat Chantra had posted the highest top speed of the weekend, 181.3 mph in Free Practice 2 on Friday.

Rossi recalled the early days of the Moto2 class. "Everybody was very scared, very angry because it is a roadbike," he said. "But they did a very good job, especially with the latest step with the Triumph engine and more electronics. I think it is a very good bike to prepare for MotoGP because it is heavy, you can work a little bit on engine-brake and everything. The engine has more torque; the bottom is a bit bigger. For me, it is at a very good level."


Cheers.
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"

poumpouny

My bad, thank davidboda46, i thought they just swap the Honda CBR engine with the Triumph one, anyway it a good thing i think and it make more sens to moto 2 !

Hawk

Yeah.... Shame about the electronics on the Moto 2 bikes now... I think they have lost an opportunity there to keep things real.

neoraptor

There is still no TC or wheelie control in Moto2. Teams can only change a few parameters such as engine braking, torque delivery and launch control.

It stays quite basic, and that's why the field is so close there.

SRC: (from 2008 but still actual) https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/910738/1/moto2-2019-ecu-explained-no-traction-control
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. Confucius
>> Wiki to help modders <<

davidboda46

@neoraptor

Interesting. Did not know the level of electronics that they have. Wonder if it's still exactly the same and/or if they have any plans to change it in the future. More advanced systems might make it an easier transition for riders  moving up to MotoGP from Moto2.

Cheers,

/David 
"THE EDGE... THERE IS NO HONEST WAY TO EXPLAIN IT BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNOW WHERE IT IS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE OVER"