2 strokes vs 4 strokes

[HornetMaX]

And the proof is where ?!?!

In the quotes given in the first article.

These are opinions, it's slightly different. And by the way, it also points the index on the emission regulations.

You do think scaling something up or down is trivial, that's understood.

I said somewhere else that you won't be able to build the 'optimum pipes' for a 1000cc two stroke V4 but that is the point, you want the maximum power at very low rpm (max. 8000 rpm) so that the engine is very reliable.

Sounds simple, I wonder why nobody is doing it though ...

MaX.

[Vini]

What do you want then if you won't even accept statements from Lotus and Aprilia engineers?

[HornetMaX]

What do you want then if you won't even accept statements from Lotus and Aprilia engineers?

I'd like the Aprilia (or KTM or whoever is in favour of 2 strokes) to show they can do what they say is doable, instead of moaning about Honda's decision to go full 4 strokes.

I can understand many people in the racing world were upset by the decision at the time (maybe because it came from Honda, likely to have muscled the switch thanks to its dominant position).
But if you state today that 2 strokes are the way to go, then you have to show it. Orbital tried, with no success at all (for the kind of engines we're discussing here). But kudos to them for at least trying (openly), as the other makers didn't even bother (as far as we know, then in the secrecy of their R&D labs it's another story).

If they criticize the decision from a technical point of view, then the only way to support their speech is clear to everybody: go build it.

If they criticize it for other reasons (political, ethical, or cost containment) then fine, but that's something else (and for sure does not support the thesis "a 2 stroke would be better").

MaX.

[Vini]

How many times do I have to explain why big manufacturers won't develop a new two stroke from zero?
It's only little companies like Orbital who would do it but they lack the money and time to get a proper result.

[RBp]

engineering wise two stroke a lot better samiish power smaller block and cheaper to produce,   Honda for sure pushed 4 stroke in racing but the FIA also have emissions limits, California was the first place to ban two stock for emissions then brussle jumped in as well.

Reason why you wont see a two stroke for a while is not the motor design but the fuel and oil, Once there a lubicante that burns clean I think they come back for a while until electric take over.

[HornetMaX]

How many times do I have to explain why big manufacturers won't develop a new two stroke from zero?
It's only little companies like Orbital who would do it but they lack the money and time to get a proper result.

It's still unclear why they don't do it though, if the outcome is so sure and better.

engineering wise two stroke a lot better samiish power smaller block and cheaper to produce,   Honda for sure pushed 4 stroke in racing but the FIA also have emissions limits, California was the first place to ban two stock for emissions then brussle jumped in as well.

Reason why you wont see a two stroke for a while is not the motor design but the fuel and oil, Once there a lubicante that burns clean I think they come back for a while until electric take over.

No lubricant burns clean.

Also, with DFI you have less issues, but then it requires a complete lubrication circuit, like the one of 4 strokes (so losing part of the advantages).

MaX.

[Vini]

Also, with DFI you have less issues, but then it requires a complete lubrication circuit, like the one of 4 strokes (so losing part of the advantages).

You will have an oil pump and an injector into the crankcase, the oil will still be burned but it can be accurately aimed at the bearing to use as few oil as possible (this is how it is done in the Rotax DFI snowmobile engines).
It doesn't differ much from autolube systems used in almost all two strokes and you certainly can't compare it to the oil sump of four strokes.
It's possible to make oil that burns very cleanly it just needs to be engineered to suit the heat the specific engine.

[HornetMaX]

Everything is possible for the one that does not have to do it.

They day we have a 2 stroke that is on par on all the aspects and 10% better on at least 2 aspects (weight, power, torque, fuel efficiency, emissions, longevity) I'll be the 1st one to say it's better.

Waiting for that day ...

MaX.