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December 04, 2022, 07:00:30 PM

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GP Bikes beta20e available! :)


¿Why GPBikes dont grow?

Started by lluisete, September 21, 2022, 10:23:56 AM

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lluisete

September 21, 2022, 10:23:56 AM Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 10:38:53 AM by lluisete
First of all, this topic is not to flame Piboso or the game. The objective of this topic is to get ideas to understand this behaviuour.

This game have a big potential, its the only with real physics, the only one that makes you enjoy riding a game having a close feeling.

But, the question is: having this amazing positive review ratio, why game dont grow? Not only not growing, how can this game go down in numbers?



After 9 months since the release on Steam, numbers are not good as game deserves.



Can we have the number or ratio of refunds of the game?

How can we have 97% positive reviews and game dont growing considering this game have tons and tons of bikes, skins, tracks, etc...

Why new players dont continue playing? Players who plays this since years can play less, but now we should have more players coming than quitting....

I think there is a lot of beginners that buy the game, test the moto2 that is too much hardcore to them and they refund and quit the game. Other reason can be they buy the game but dont find all the content that makes the game special, so they quit.

Why MX Bikes that is hardcore game too had this fantastic growing? What makes the difference between them? Can we learn something from them?



Maybe Piboso can share more data that make us understand why this game is not going as well at it deserves.

Remember, this topic is to be constructive, not to flame.
Champion of Summer Cup 2012 and SRC125cc.<br />Subchampion of SRC500cc.<br />Admin of @gpbikes_fans<br />Personal instagram @lluiscabedo

Takuan_Soho

September 21, 2022, 10:44:59 AM #1 Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 11:11:08 AM by Takuan_Soho
I suspect MXB has many US clients, they do LOTS of dirtbike.

I floated the idea of Turbo Hayabusas and Y2Ks mods and drag racing to appeal to the US market in GPB Discord and literally got banned for disturbing the hive mind.

A post regarding a reconstitution of present AMA also failed to gain traction...

Frankly, I think both games should merge.

_Edit: The lack of MaxHUD and ReShade out of the box is problematic, too. Not to mention a starter category with pocket bikes on karting tracks and beginner settings (for bikes and commands) would also prevent newbies from falling off the learning curve.

lluisete

I think with this numbers we should re consider some things.

For me, a good idea to get tons of new players and avoid them feel frustrated and quit can be this:

Make a Free Version, with a EASY BIKE AND ONE ONLINE SERVER for beginners, as LiveForSpeed did all this years, so beginners starts with online racing versus others beginners and easy bikes, so they can have fun and dont get fustrated. After that period of adaptation, some of them will buy the full version with a base of skill to play the rest of the mods.

And some content creators can get this demo for free and make content easier of GPB, no need to ask someone for a key, buy the game and start with hard bikes, etc...

This methodology worked so well with LiveForSpeed, why dont import it here?

Champion of Summer Cup 2012 and SRC125cc.<br />Subchampion of SRC500cc.<br />Admin of @gpbikes_fans<br />Personal instagram @lluiscabedo

morvio100

I think you right...the primary reason is ..it is quite difficult..compared to other creations...the other primary reason is..the game doesn't have AI...the Great One = Piboso...I think ..released for online...but it has lots of options for bike set-ups and testing...none of Piboso creations have AI...is this a mistake..who knows....the Great One = Piboso is obviously a vey talented coder...but i have looked at the online ...set up...tbh..some of the vids are hilarliously funny....there is some good discord servers...for online..but imo...people will not go racing online ...with outdated online ui...and so few people can ride..competently and the netcode...is not on par with the likes of Rfactor....the Great One = Piboso...to my knowledge works on his projects alone...so I imagine is a hell of alot of work for one person...mxbikes is better for online apparently...but mxbikes graphics ...look very outdated imo...maybe the Great One = Piboso...will code/release an update like Rfacotor with well tuned ai...that would make a great creation much better///

Gzehoo

If PiBoSo has to do A.I... he would just launch something like AI Bikes  :-X  the same thing as GPB but more focused on making some steps on A.I.
And also the project that would be with GPB on the same licence key (instead of WRS), and using the same content - which would be just more "learned" by A.I.


On the other hand, sometimes it's good when we don't have well made A.I. Is it working well in any simulator like AC, rF2, RR or LFS?

PiBoSo

Quote from: lluisete on September 21, 2022, 10:23:56 AMCan we have the number or ratio of refunds of the game?

The refund percentage is around 28%, against 19% of KRP and 16% of MXB.
The vast majority listed "game too difficult" or "not fun" as the reason.

I guess most road bikes fans can find their "fix" with MotoGP and Ride, while with dirt bikes the MXGP and SX games are not as good.
"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".

lluisete

September 21, 2022, 04:46:22 PM #6 Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 06:07:52 PM by lluisete
We said long time ago that will happen, its because of stock bike.

If they make a refund is because they played less than 2h, with that time 99% of them just testet Moto2 bike that is unridable for all, i dont enjoy playing that bike and i play GPB since 2008 and i am sure im on the top 10-15% fastest riders here. That stock bike is harder than 99,9% of the comunity mods.

If u put a bike like Manus M2 or VSMaster M3 and put free online servers to the beginners i am sure u can improve a lot that 2 reasons of refunds. People wont feel game too difficult and will continue playing it online (so, having fun).

Consider it, its not hard to implement. It's too easy just say its people problem, correct should be make correct changues.
Champion of Summer Cup 2012 and SRC125cc.<br />Subchampion of SRC500cc.<br />Admin of @gpbikes_fans<br />Personal instagram @lluiscabedo

HornetMaX

Quote from: Takuan_Soho on September 21, 2022, 10:44:59 AM_Edit: The lack of MaxHUD and ReShade out of the box is problematic, too.
Not that I think PiBoSo needs my help on anything even loosely related to coding, but if he wants he can have the source code of MaxHUD. Anytime, for free. Same applies to the other tools I've created (MaxTM, MaxTyre, MaxSCL).

Again, not sure it will help a lot, but if it does and he can stomach reading what probably qualifies as poor code, then he can have all of them in a nice bundle :)

morvio100

lluisete @"its because of stock bike"...there's nothing wrong with the stock bike...its well modeled...reckon the Great One = Piboso...just needs to update netcode/and online ui/severs...maybe have/create beginner servers(where aids are encouraged)....maybe create a snazzy looking vignette/intro (give the sim a more polished look)for the online to encourage more online usage...all in all a phenomenal achievement for one person...looks to me the guy put his heart and soul into the physics end of things...reckon with improvements to the graphics.*both gp and mx would be completely leading the pack ..also would buy both the four wheeler creations in  heartbeat in he had simulated really good damage models on both...regards gp...with some small tweaks...nothing else gets even close to being as visceral ...mucho respecto...

lluisete

September 22, 2022, 08:00:52 AM #9 Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 08:03:40 AM by lluisete
If its not that bad, why nobody play the stock m2 in online? Being the stock bike it should be usually played, but no one play with it because its just not good and people prefer others.

Not talking about personal opinions, talking about facts. Nobody play stock m2 and people who play it (beginners), the 30% refund because its hard and not fun (obviusly, game with that bike is that for for me being +10 years playing here). And consider that a lot of people dont know there is refund option and dont do it or when they notice they dont like they have +2hours and its late to refund, if not the % could be even worst.
Champion of Summer Cup 2012 and SRC125cc.<br />Subchampion of SRC500cc.<br />Admin of @gpbikes_fans<br />Personal instagram @lluiscabedo

morvio100

Just my opinion...for me ...found the stock bike a lot of fun...caveat...I dont use the sim online...just enjoy some testing..although would love to see more offline options ...ie more options to set up the trainers...to me ...currently the online stuff is to problematic to get a race going...enjoy the offline though...ps the only bikes i found quite difficult to control are VSMasters creations...(probably because their HIGHLY arcuately modeled)...well done to VSMASTER...that WSBK 2017...great fun...

Guigafumi

GP Bikes is more of a sandbox title than a proper game. It's up to the user to make something out of it than to "plug and play," plus it lacks assists to help those curious or transitioning from other motorcycle racing titles.

Vini

MaxHUD and reshade should be included by default and the stock bike needs to be replaced.
Apart from that, there needs to be some "quick guide" for getting into the game. Like knowing the very basic settings and setup tricks.
I think the community would be happy to contribute to this...
Also, maybe a better caluclated "ideal line" aid could help.

morvio100

@ Vini  "Also, maybe a better caluclated "ideal line" aid could help.
 
The Great One = Piboso is currently conjuring up some of his magic replacing the old rendering pipline it seems = Fantastic....the Great One = Piboso ...could in time develop an ai"learning" facility within the sim (as seen in the early days of Rfactor -aahh memories, memories- : )   .)....more particulary for track builders - eg ideal line/ apparently there is essentially 3 types of lines defensive/offensive/ and race line..these lines should be studied and carefully analyzed by track builders...and then implemented instead of a "ideal" line...those lines would be set within the map...then when a trainer is loaded who have the option/s to set the trainer to one or alternate between all three... thus you'll have a hell of an interesting offline-testing experience....the Great One = Piboso...wont let us down...

SuperSic

Just put the 250gp 2t bikes as default,and remake the 3rd person camera to resemble motogp games a bit,when cornering the 3rd person cam does a weird thing can't explain it but makes the bike seem planted glued on road,i believe if these two things are done the refunds will decrease,250 bikes are easy even if it is not show casing the proper physics of the game at full it will keep new players,after they are addicted there is no coming back,ease the customers in don't give them the pure stuff first try,they overdose 😂😂😂